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I've never gotten crispy skin with brine and low temp. Maybe duck is different, but if chicken and turkey are any indication you're going to have problems. By the time you blow torch at the end won't the subcutaneous fat needed to crisp skin already be rendered off? I'm just guessing here as I've never done it. I've heard that air drying uncovered in the fridge for a day can help a brined bird get a crispy skin.
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Jul 23, 2012 12:41
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Canuckistan posted:I've never gotten crispy skin with brine and low temp. Maybe duck is different, but if chicken and turkey are any indication you're going to have problems. By the time you blow torch at the end won't the subcutaneous fat needed to crisp skin already be rendered off? I'm just guessing here as I've never done it. I've always had to throw it in the oven after it's smoked to crisp the skin.
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Jul 23, 2012 12:58
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Canuckistan posted:I've never gotten crispy skin with brine and low temp. Maybe duck is different, but if chicken and turkey are any indication you're going to have problems. By the time you blow torch at the end won't the subcutaneous fat needed to crisp skin already be rendered off? I'm just guessing here as I've never done it. I pulled it off once (obviously by luck) after doing the air drying in the fridge for 24 hours after brining. Basically if there's any moisture in the skin, it'll come out rubbery. I was also told that you can use a hair dryer (no heat!) to help out as well.
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Jul 23, 2012 13:33
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alright, well I guess I don't have to brine it - I could just salt rub it or something for a day - or I could do the 24 hour dry thing. I think either would work fine. and so I'll take ya'lls cue and probably just use a hot oven to crisp at the end, maybe like 450 or something. are my times about right though? 4-6 hours on the smoker?
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Jul 23, 2012 20:39
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Why are you slow cooking it at all? Again, perhaps duck is different but I don't think poultry benefits from low and slow at all. When I smoke turkeys I usually do a high heat smoke at around 325-350 with an empty water pan.
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Jul 23, 2012 20:47
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Try Googling "serious eats smoked duck" for some good info and a recipe, the author mentions that he will try crisping the skin further with baking powder in the fridge.
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Jul 23, 2012 22:42
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So we're moving, and as a present to myself for selling the house, I want a smoker. I'm really debating (after reading through this thread twice) between a W.S.M. and the Masterbuilt electric. I've done a fair bit of smoking on my propane BBQ, and I'd really like to take it up a notch. The W.S.M. looks great, I love the bark on things that I smoke, and I don't mind "caretaking" a bit. But the set-it-and-forget-it of the electric is just so damned appealing in a lot of ways. Anyone have some personal anecdotes of wisdom that may apply to me - how easy is it to get used to the WSM? Anything that smoking over charcoal just works better than electric? And is this the right masterbuilt that everyone is talking about? http://www.amazon.ca/MASTERBUILT-20070411-30IN-ELECTRC-SMOKER/dp/B003XJGEGY/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1343080597&sr=8-20 I'm Canadian, so our prices suck, eh!
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Jul 23, 2012 23:05
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BraveUlysses posted:Try Googling "serious eats smoked duck" for some good info and a recipe, the author mentions that he will try crisping the skin further with baking powder in the fridge. I tried this method with chicken and I didn't have good results. I suck though so ymmv.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:06
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Canuckistan posted:Why are you slow cooking it at all? Again, perhaps duck is different but I don't think poultry benefits from low and slow at all. When I smoke turkeys I usually do a high heat smoke at around 325-350 with an empty water pan. yeah, duck is different. I'm assuming you've never cooked duck? literally every part of it is tough as poo poo unless you slow roast (or smoke, hopefully) it. the breast you have to cook like a steak - if you roast it, it's just unpalatably dry and dense. same with the legs, until they become falling off the bone and delicious. anyways, as to why I'm smoking it rather than slow roasting it - I don't know, to learn? I've never done it before, which is usually more than enough reason for me to justify attempting something cooking-wise.
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Jul 23, 2012 23:36
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Siochain posted:And is this the right masterbuilt that everyone is talking about? My 40" MB electric cost me $320 shipped. It's one of the greatest food-related things I own, but I don't know if I would have spent $650 on the smaller version of it. Is there really no way to get one for cheaper in Canada? As far as the electric vs. the WSM, I think you can get great results with either one. I absolutely love my electric and wouldn't trade it for anything; the amount of food I can fit in it combined with the foolproof long-cooking consistency (with the AMNPS tray) is just incredible. I definitely smoke more often than I did when I was using charcoal, because setting up to smoke takes so little time/energy, and maintenance is non-existant.
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Jul 24, 2012 00:29
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GigaFool posted:My 40" MB electric cost me $320 shipped. It's one of the greatest food-related things I own, but I don't know if I would have spent $650 on the smaller version of it. Is there really no way to get one for cheaper in Canada? Not unless I get some kind american to ship it to me, hahah. If I look around I ~may~ find it cheaper. Just tough, loving things are so much more expensive north of the border - free trade my fat loving rear end. That pretty much seals it though, electric it is. Just need to find a better price, heh. The time/energy thing is what seals it for me.
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Jul 24, 2012 02:57
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Siochain posted:Anyone have some personal anecdotes of wisdom that may apply to me - how easy is it to get used to the WSM? Anything that smoking over charcoal just works better than electric? I have to tell you man, the WSM is a great in between of set it and forget it and traditional smoke monitoring. That thing will easily hold 225 for like 8-9 hours with little to no maintenance. At the 9 hour mark toss a chimney of unlit coals in, open the vents, close them again when you stabilize and your good for another 9. It really is awesome. Plus you don't get that nice dark bark and smoke ring from an electric.
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Jul 24, 2012 03:11
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McSpankWich posted:Plus you don't get that nice dark bark and smoke ring from an electric. The latter is true (and meaningless to flavor). I don't know where you heard you don't get bark, though. Not the case for me.
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Jul 24, 2012 03:22
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I smoke using an electric, but throw wood chips directly on the heating elements. I get bark and smoke rings. fwiw.
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Jul 24, 2012 04:23
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Siochain posted:I've done a fair bit of smoking on my propane BBQ, and I'd really like to take it up a notch. The W.S.M. looks great, I love the bark on things that I smoke, and I don't mind "caretaking" a bit. But the set-it-and-forget-it of the electric is just so damned appealing in a lot of ways. I have a WSM and I love it. And it's actually not that far off from "set it and forget it". The first few times you smoke with it you will likely spend more time fussing with vents and all, but once you get experience (and confidence) with it, you will get to the point where it's almost fire and forget. It will still take a little more effort to fire up than an electric, of course, but once you have the heat where you want it, it doesn't take much tending at all to deal with. And a single load of fuel will cover you for hours of smoking, so it's not like you are constantly refeeding the fire. And on top of that, there's something primal about working directly with flame and fuel that you don't get with an electric smoker. But maybe that's not part of the equation for you.
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Jul 24, 2012 16:39
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Have to jump on the train that the WSM is as easy as you can get without a set it and forget it electric type situation. I've now smoked things twice since getting it and once you get it to temp it just stays there. This is coming from someone who prior to getting the WSM has never once cooked on charcoal or even lit charcoal and who also did the reverse minion method on accident the first time I tried the smoker and had to burn off a whole load of coals to get the drat thing below 380 degrees to start smoking. This last weekend I was up by 6AM. Had it to 240 degrees by 6:30. Shut the vents, put on the meat and sat and watched the thermometer as it didn't leave the 230-250 range for 4 hours. I opened it up to baste and turn the meat after 4 hours and again every couple after that and opening the lid those couple times were the only temp variations I had the entire day, and I had those under control within 15 minutes. Cooked at that level until 4:30 PM so 10 hours, foiled brisket, opened vents and kicked the thing up to 325 and ran it another hour and 45 to get the meat to temp. Never once had to replace coals or anything, in fact there were still a couple coals at the end that I let burn off while we ate.
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Jul 24, 2012 22:49
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Siochain posted:Not unless I get some kind american to ship it to me, hahah. I found my 40" mastercraft at Canadian tire for 50% off ($149.98). Keep an eye out as the BBQ deals are just about to start since they want the floor space for fall goodies. (Got told when buying a cheap replacement BBQ last weekend to hold onto the receipt for price matching as a sale was coming up shortly)
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Jul 25, 2012 07:54
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On the topic of the WSM, I'm trying to decide between the 18.5 vs. the 22 inch version. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get the 18.5 since I rarely cook for more than 6-8 people, haven't ever really tried anything huge like a whole pork shoulder (and I'm not even sure I could find enough people to eat it), and because I've heard the 22 uses quite a bit more charcoal and has a little more trouble regulating temp. I'm just wondering if there's anything I'm missing.
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Jul 25, 2012 21:58
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coronaball posted:On the topic of the WSM, I'm trying to decide between the 18.5 vs. the 22 inch version. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get the 18.5 since I rarely cook for more than 6-8 people, haven't ever really tried anything huge like a whole pork shoulder (and I'm not even sure I could find enough people to eat it), and because I've heard the 22 uses quite a bit more charcoal and has a little more trouble regulating temp. I'm just wondering if there's anything I'm missing. I've done a whole pork shoulder (boston butt) on a 14.5 inch Weber Smokey Joe conversion. I can only imagine you needing a 22 inch smoker if you're doing huge packer briskets or multiple racks of ribs for a big occasion.
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Jul 25, 2012 22:07
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I've done three racks of ribs and two 10lb pork shoulders in the 18" WSM (Not at the same time). I can't imagine needing more than that sans some huge party, and even then, two shoulders will feed a whole lot of people. You could also do a ton more ribs with a rack, which I don't have. I also want to say that this new Burger King "let's have a BBQ" commercial is just offensive.
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Jul 25, 2012 22:48
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OK I'm gonna pull the trigger on the 18 inch WSM. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute some pics to this thread soon; I didn't really feel that any of the food I cooked on my $39 electric Brinkmann really was up to par.
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Jul 26, 2012 00:18
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Good call on the 18. I have the 22 since I occasionally cook for 15-20 people but the extra fuel use sucks when I'm cooking just for myself. Sears Canada used to carry the WSM series and if you can catch one on sale they were quite a bit cheaper than Home Depot.
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Jul 26, 2012 01:02
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sorry, I feel like an idiot - what is a WSM?
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Jul 26, 2012 04:58
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mindphlux posted:sorry, I feel like an idiot - what is a WSM? weber smokey mountain
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Jul 26, 2012 05:05
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mindphlux posted:sorry, I feel like an idiot - what is a WSM? I am guessing the Weber Smokey Mountain ... http://webersmokeymountaincookersmoker.org/
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Jul 26, 2012 05:05
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Canuckistan posted:Good call on the 18. I have the 22 since I occasionally cook for 15-20 people but the extra fuel use sucks when I'm cooking just for myself. I second the 18" WSM. You can really cook a good amount of food on it. I love mine.
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Jul 26, 2012 05:08
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mindphlux posted:alright y'all, I need some seriously spot on and sage advice. Duck veteran here. Twice over. If you pull this off, prepare to be spoiled for life. The one I threw down on the table last Thanksgiving has become legend. The brine I use is here: http://www.wvtrophyhunters.com/smoked_duck.htm I just used their brine though. I ignored all of their butchering instructions. My duck brined whole, smoked whole, and was broken down to serve. The only prep work I would strongly recommend requires this: http://www.amazon.com/Jaccard-20034...ywords=jacquard You can find knock-offs of these things at Target, Wal-Mart, K-Mart or any shop that sells hunting/game supplies. I find them completely invaluable for prepping shoulders and birds. Small stabby holes. On big shoulders, it's to help the brine get in, on a duck... it's to help the fat get out. If you're getting a fresh duck, yay! Most places don't have them though. So chances are your duck is frozen, and there's no shame in that. Thaw it in the fridge for days ahead of time to bring it to a chilled state. Standard stuff. I base all my smokes off of serving time and plan accordingly. So for a dinner service duck, I do this: Pull chilled duck from fridge, unwrap it, pull out all of the gutsy stuff, butcher the neck off if you'd like (doing this will also help the duck drain, but it's not totally necessary). Prepare a batch of the brine. Poke the hell out of the duck breasts with the Jaccard. You can just go nuts with it, or you can do more patient organized patterns with it. Totally up to you. The functional point (ha) is to break that lipid/waterproof barrier in the breast. If you want to hit the thighs with the Jaccard a couple of times as well, go for it. Brine the duck overnight or as long as 24 hours. Next morning pull the duck out of the brine and put it out on some kind of a rack to drain a bit and dry out. Actively dry the skin a bit with a paper towel. While this is happening, go get your smoker prepped however you do it. Smoke bird. Now, you can do this a couple of ways. You can just do a straight up hot smoke and get things up to 300+ degrees (my Bradley will only do 320). You're still looking for standard duck temps in the breast meat, so get a probe in there and watch it if you can. Smoke on your choice of woods (I prefer pecan) until target temp is hit, then serve. Or you can live dangerously. You want that magical crispy skin? There be dragons here. Follow the smoking procedure as you will, but pull the bird 30-40 degrees shy of target temperature. Take bird AND THE DRIP PAN YOU BETTER BE USING OR BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN SERIOUSLY GET A HUGE DRIP PAN and walk over to your grill. Tighten skin up on the grill (gas or charcoal doesn't matter) until the breast hits target temp. You should have beautiful mahogony skin as well. Do this over the drip pan or will set poo poo on fire. Hell, sometimes the stuff in the drip pan will ignite. BE VERY CAREFUL. Duck fat is way, way flammable. Do not do this under a porch. Have appropriate fire-go-away mechanisms nearby and don't tighten the bird up alone.
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Jul 26, 2012 16:29
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Can you explain "tighten up the skin"? As in literally grab the loose skin and pinch it off somehow to keep it tight against the meat? Great write up though. I'm a duck virgin but now I'm thinking of trying this out.
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Jul 26, 2012 17:18
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Canuckistan posted:Can you explain "tighten up the skin"? As in literally grab the loose skin and pinch it off somehow to keep it tight against the meat? It's a reference to the skin tightening around the meat as it's crisped over a grill or under a broiler.
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Jul 26, 2012 18:10
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coronaball posted:OK I'm gonna pull the trigger on the 18 inch WSM. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute some pics to this thread soon; I didn't really feel that any of the food I cooked on my $39 electric Brinkmann really was up to par. A sound decision. A good source for any new WSM owner is http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/ Welcome to the cult. (Or if you are more artsy-feely about cooking and don't like the engineer approach, get yourself a copy of Low and Slow by Gary Wiviott. Either approach produces fine results.)
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Jul 26, 2012 22:26
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GigaFool posted:It's a reference to the skin tightening around the meat as it's crisped over a grill or under a broiler. Indeed. My apologies for throwing around vernacular in ways that are difficult to understand. In my vocabulary it's exactly as GigaFool describes. Much higher heat used to crisp skin or generate a crust of some kind. Most common usage is when people use a texas crutch or some other kind of braise during rib smoking, then present the ribs to high heat at the end to dry up the skin and present a little crispness. Also, because I don't think I explained it well enough above, but the drip pan... it needs to be oversized and deep. It's not going to fill up, but it is going to be safer if things do actually ignite. Less of a chance of spillage as arms flail and "woah gently caress"s are uttered. Another thing on the rendered fat front though... if you do get through this, and you do manage to not ignite the drip pan... you will have in your posession one of the most lust-inducing ingredients known to man: smoked duck fat. Do not throw this out. Do not do what I've done and leave it outside to cool down... then remember it a month later. Cherish it. Coddle it. Toss chopped fingerling potatoes in it and roast on high heat until they brown with it. Make vinegrette with it. Cook hamburgers in it. Smoked duck fat is liquid gold. edit: Also, if you want the pristine presentation, hang the duck by the neck or upper spine. What I did was fine an unglazed coat hanger, wash it really good, then cut it and modify it so that you can put the hook through the bird's spine and then bend and hook the open ends into your grill high in the chamber, letting the duck dangle below. This will allow all of the fat coming out of those holes to run down all of the outside and yield that beautiful mohogany roasted color, as well as seasoning things as it goes. Doing this means no grill marks, etc... and it also means that when you evacuate the bird from the smoker, tilting it won't pour napalm down your tongs, your arm, the ground, etc.. And then when you do the tighten over direct heat just use the biggest set of bbq tongs you have, and have a sheet pan handy to just cover the drip pan if it ignites. There's a reason I say "duck veteran". It's an adventure. 
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Jul 26, 2012 22:46
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McSpankWich posted:I've done three racks of ribs and two 10lb pork shoulders in the 18" WSM (Not at the same time). I can't imagine needing more than that sans some huge party, and even then, two shoulders will feed a whole lot of people. You could also do a ton more ribs with a rack, which I don't have. I had 19 people at my house a couple weeks back. Had to smoke an entire costco boneless rib roast, more than two dozen chicken thighs, and like 110 dollars worth of beef ribs. I wanted to get a 22", but the store underestimated the demand for them and was sold out, so I had to buy a second 18" to go with my old one. Ended up still needing some racks that brinkman built to fit it all in both of them. I never thought I would need more than the single 18" either. Oh, also last week I cold smoked some sockeye salmon again. Used a dehydrator this time after the fact and it turned out really salty. Still good though.
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Jul 26, 2012 23:54
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Slung Blade posted:and it turned out really salty. I'm a staunch proponent of soaking cured fish in plain ice water for at least 60 minutes prior to air-drying + smoking. My belief is that it's always easier to add salt than to take it out, and my cold-smoked fish always comes out perfect when I do this.
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Jul 27, 2012 03:24
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So did everyone burn their house down this weekend or what? No mad smoking endeavors? I stayed in all weekend working on the house, so I didn't have a go myself. I wanna see me some mad success stories.
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Jul 31, 2012 03:21
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Alleric posted:So did everyone burn their house down this weekend or what? No mad smoking endeavors? I stayed in all weekend working on the house, so I didn't have a go myself. I wanna see me some mad success stories. I did my first long smoke last week when I did an ~11 lb pork shoulder into some pulled pork. Was absolutely delicious and well worth the time/experience. I'll try and remember to post a pic of it when my shift is over.
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Jul 31, 2012 06:09
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I cold smoked delicious salmon! It was tasty.
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Jul 31, 2012 19:43
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Niagalack posted:I cold smoked delicious salmon! It was tasty. I think they may still have some wild caught coho coming in to the local supermarket just before the weekend. I'm currently in full-on house Mayhap I need to get me a lb of file and maybe a couple of nice trout to throw in this weekend.
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Aug 1, 2012 03:06
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Niagalack posted:I cold smoked delicious salmon! It was tasty. It's way too hot this time of year to do that around here. I am ready for it to cool off so I can give it a try.
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Aug 2, 2012 06:11
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This is the recipe I use it's a blast each time I do it. Food network Cured and Smoked Salmon Alleric posted:I think they may still have some wild caught coho coming in to the local supermarket just before the weekend. I'm currently in full-on house My wife goes nuts when I make her smoked salmon or poached egg with hollandaise sauce!
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Aug 3, 2012 00:49
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unknown posted:I found my 40" mastercraft at Canadian tire for 50% off ($149.98). Keep an eye out as the BBQ deals are just about to start since they want the floor space for fall goodies. (Got told when buying a cheap replacement BBQ last weekend to hold onto the receipt for price matching as a sale was coming up shortly) Doesn't even look like they carry Masterbuilt products anymore :/ heh Okay, one last question before I bite the bullet: Which is going to work best in -30 degree celcius weather? I like to BBQ in the cold, and if I can smoke something while its freezing a yaks tits off, even better.
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Aug 3, 2012 01:57
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