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Holy poo poo, I never realized just how much FF9 cribbed from other FF games. Granted, quite a few of those points are a stretch, and some are just gameplay mechanics, but there's still a lot of themes that mirror the themes of previous FF games. At least they're well-executed and repurposed to fit FF9's story and atmosphere, for the most part.
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Jul 28, 2012 13:30
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I kinda want to see a game detailing what happened when Jenova ended up on earth. It could be some horror game like Silent Hill or something given how much her backstory resembles The Thing. Am I alone in thinking that?
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Jul 28, 2012 15:26
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Pollyanna posted:I kinda want to see a game detailing what happened when Jenova ended up on earth. It could be some horror game like Silent Hill or something given how much her backstory resembles The Thing. Am I alone in thinking that? It'd basically be Chrono Trigger.
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Jul 28, 2012 15:53
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I'm finally playing through XIII and I've figured out what I dislike most about it - a lot of the trash mobs take ten times longer to kill than bosses 
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Jul 28, 2012 16:01
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HitmanAndQuitIt posted:I'm finally playing through XIII and I've figured out what I dislike most about it - a lot of the trash mobs take ten times longer to kill than bosses If that is the case you should probably be switching your paradigms up more. Almost every trash mob can be torn through like butter until maybe Pulse.
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Jul 28, 2012 16:07
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ImpAtom posted:It'd basically be Chrono Trigger. Holy poo poo  It makes so much sense!Also I read Hoshi wo Meguru Otome and now I'm imagining an ethereal Aerith sorting out leftover souls' problems like some sort of metaphysical psychologist. It's a funny image. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 28, 2012 |
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Jul 28, 2012 16:09
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ImpAtom posted:If that is the case you should probably be switching your paradigms up more. Almost every trash mob can be torn through like butter until maybe Pulse. Most of them are fine, it's just the dumb things like Thermadons that take forever And I've decided I hate Vanilles goddamn GROANING more, every time she casts a spell
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Jul 28, 2012 16:18
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Pollyanna posted:I kinda want to see a game detailing what happened when Jenova ended up on earth. It could be some horror game like Silent Hill or something given how much her backstory resembles The Thing. Am I alone in thinking that? I insist to this day that Final Fantasy The Spirits Within is a prequel to FF7. It's got the damaged life-stream. The alien life force carried by a comet. It even has a massive crater that lines up with the northern crater.
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Jul 28, 2012 17:22
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It's not. IIRC it wasn't even a "Final Fantasy" movie until during production. Before that it was just Generic Boring Sci-Fi Anime Movie (with very good CGI).
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Jul 28, 2012 17:49
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Well, as it is, it's still "Generic Boring Sci-Fi Anime Movie (with very good CGI)", but with some really minor FF staple references. And porcelain skin. I'll have to watch it again at some point. I only remember being really bored by everyone that wasn't James Woods trying to blow thiings up with a space gun. And...whats-her-face..."zombie girl" standing on invisible air or water. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jul 28, 2012 |
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Jul 28, 2012 17:52
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rodbeard posted:I insist to this day that Final Fantasy The Spirits Within is a prequel to FF7. It's got the damaged life-stream. The alien life force carried by a comet. It even has a massive crater that lines up with the northern crater. I like this theory. I may even go and watch it again with this in mind, although it probably won't make the script more palatable. 
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Jul 29, 2012 00:25
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I was outside Otakon today and saw a Quina cosplayer and thought to myself "Hey, it's Iz!" drat it, The White Dragon. Unfortunately I forgot to take a picture, so I just have Lightning and Afro Cloud.
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Jul 29, 2012 01:43
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If they ever make a Final Fantasy 7 movie, they need to cast Robert Downey Jr. as Reeve.
Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jul 29, 2012 |
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Jul 29, 2012 03:39
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Mega64 posted:Holy poo poo, I never realized just how much FF9 cribbed from other FF games. Granted, quite a few of those points are a stretch, and some are just gameplay mechanics, but there's still a lot of themes that mirror the themes of previous FF games. The stretching points and the wildly varying writing style makes reading that list feel like a TVtropes page.
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Jul 29, 2012 04:22
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Mega64 posted:Holy poo poo, I never realized just how much FF9 cribbed from other FF games. Granted, quite a few of those points are a stretch, and some are just gameplay mechanics, but there's still a lot of themes that mirror the themes of previous FF games. The counterpoint to this is that the whole series does this. About 15 of the job classes, chocobos, moogles, airships (usually plural), Cid as an important NPC, Ragnarok, Ultima (and 75% of the spell list for that matter), Ultima and Omega Weapon, a ton of weapons and armor (Ragnarok, Masamune, Genji gear etc), most of the summoned monsters, Gilgamesh, crystals, four elemental fiends, a ton of normal monsters (Tonberry, Marlboro, Iron Giant, Cactuar etc), Star Wars references in names and dialogue, elemental naming convention for protagonists, a love story, themes of friendship in which the thing that distinguishes the villain from the party and proves their ultimate undoing is being a loner above and apart from others... Between the conventions of fantasy stories and all the recurring weapons/monsters/magic, you could argue that any given game in the series may as well be a "love letter to the series". I still don't think anything about FF9 was particularly "retro" other than its traditional class-based system, and here's a list of prior Final Fantasy games where your characters either don't have traditional classes or can change them: FF2, FF3, FF5, FF7, FF8. 6 is kind of in-between, because every character has defined base stats/skills and a different equipment list, but you can tailor their stats and spell list to whatever role you want. There are literally fewer FF games prior to 9 that have predefined character roles than don't. Baku fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Jul 29, 2012 |
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Jul 29, 2012 04:35
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I think what 9 was trying to do was to be a love letter to the "older" games, i.e. "not 7 and 8".
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Jul 29, 2012 04:42
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Somewhat, but it still had a lot of the technical features of 7 and 8. It had the pre-rendered backgrounds with 3D characters, a bunch of CG movies, and some of the ridiculous plot twists that 7 and 8 liked to throw at you.
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Jul 29, 2012 05:34
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Mill Village posted:Somewhat, but it still had a lot of the technical features of 7 and 8. It had the pre-rendered backgrounds with 3D characters, a bunch of CG movies Dude I dunno if you're an rear end in a top hat or just dense.
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Jul 29, 2012 06:52
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"After the world of Terra has been destroyed, at the beginning of disc four and onwards, the player can return to the Black Mage Village and examine the gramophone in the inn. If the player possesses the Doga's Artifact and Une's Mirror, the background music will change to a melody taken from the Final Fantasy III soundtrack; "Doga and Une's Theme". This melody continues on until the player leaves the village. " What the fuuuuck I had never heard of this and I thought I did most of the stuff in FF9 that wasn't card related.
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Jul 29, 2012 08:23
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Mill Village posted:Somewhat, but it still had a lot of the technical features of 7 and 8. It had the pre-rendered backgrounds with 3D characters, a bunch of CG movies, and some of the ridiculous plot twists that 7 and 8 liked to throw at you. Most everything gameplay-related or plot-related were throwbacks to the earlier games. The "modern meets nostalgia" element is from the fact that it included modern elements, such as 3D and CG. The ridiculous plot twists in IX are nowhere near on the level of 7 or 8. The only thing those two games influenced on IX were the graphics.
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Jul 29, 2012 09:21
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No, I would definitely say IX's reveal is closer to VII or VIII's than it is to the games before it, it was just handled better than the latter's.
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Jul 29, 2012 09:32
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Azure_Horizon posted:Most everything gameplay-related or plot-related were throwbacks to the earlier games. The "modern meets nostalgia" element is from the fact that it included modern elements, such as 3D and CG. See, it's not even that it includes prerendered backgrounds or FMVs or whatever. All that is a result of it being a triple-A PS1 RPG, and dudes on pre-rendered backgrounds with some FMVs mixed in was basically the mark of the best quality money could buy for the industry at the time. It's very unfair for anyone to say "well it was like FF7 and FF8 because it had PRERENDERED BACKGROUNDS! OH OH OH AND FMVS!" because you know what else had pre-rendered backgrounds? Parasite Eve. Legend of Dragoon. Chrono Cross. Star Ocean 2. And so on and so forth. As for the mechanics, that's Squaresoft being Squaresoft: they had their basic battle system and they rolled with it. It's not like today where they absolutely need to make up something new every time; they knew they certainly had a wheel and they weren't about to reinvent it whenever they added 1 to the Final Fantasy brand. As for the reveal, the biggest one that sticks out in my mind is Zidane is Kuja's brother, and to me, that's FF4 and nothing else. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Jul 29, 2012 |
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Jul 29, 2012 09:32
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And the rest of it, about a transforming monkey-man sent from space as a baby to take over the planet is... well, Dragon Ball Z.
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Jul 29, 2012 09:38
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It's not like the earlier FF games didn't have crazy plot twists as well, either. The main villain is actually the protagonist's brother! The comic relief clown is actually the main villain! The main villain is actually an evil tree!
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Jul 29, 2012 09:50
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Mega64 posted:It's not like the earlier FF games didn't have crazy plot twists as well, either. Alternatively, the main villain isn't even the protagonist's brother but someone else entirely!
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Jul 29, 2012 10:01
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Azure_Horizon posted:The ridiculous plot twists in IX are nowhere near on the level of 7 or 8. The only thing those two games influenced on IX were the graphics. And that laundry list of poo poo I posted that is in at least 2 or 3 Final Fantasy games prior to 9. Like chocobos and half the monsters and items and summoned monsters. That stuff too. I seriously do not see what makes 9 "more like the SNES games" or an homage to the older titles or anything other than it having a seemingly more "innocent" tone, at which point it's probably worth noting that the aesthetics (particularly color palette and music) and some plot events in 6 are among the darkest in the whole series and the protagonist of 4 is a war criminal seeking redemption. People see a larger sea-change in the direction of the series than actually occurred, when in reality the changes in the series' writing, direction, tone, and mechanics from 1-8 were a gradual progression. The White Dragon posted:Alternatively, the main villain isn't even the protagonist's brother but someone else entirely! I mean, the first game's main villain was a random mook you thrashed at the beginning of the game, who made a pact with the four fiends that sent him back in time so he could accrue infinite power by reliving the same 2000 year cycle in perpetuity. Or something. Seriously. For those unaware that is, if not exactly correct, pretty close to the actual plot of Final Fantasy I. The first game in the series, on the NES, when every other game was about rescuing the princess or killing the evil wizard. This series has a proud tradition of being experimental with both plot and game mechanics. And even when most people see a swing and a miss (like the plot of FF8 or the mechanics of FF2), they usually manage to be a little interesting. Baku fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Jul 29, 2012 |
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Jul 29, 2012 10:07
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Schwartzcough posted:And the rest of it, about a transforming monkey-man sent from space as a baby to take over the planet is... well, Dragon Ball Z. Which in turn is loosely based off of Sun Wukong.
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Jul 29, 2012 10:14
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Mega64 posted:It's not like the earlier FF games didn't have crazy plot twists as well, either. I don't really think either of those are on the level of "You are the second artificially made lifeform that was made to take over the world. The people on your original world are souless robots."
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Jul 29, 2012 10:20
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Momomo posted:I don't really think either of those are on the level of "You are the second artificially made lifeform that was made to take over the world. The people on your original world are souless robots." The Genomes continue the theme established from Vivi and his conflict with the Black Mages over "what constitutes a soul?" The Genomes, products of Garland's creation, mirror the Black Mages, products of Kuja's loving around with the Mist. In both cases, you have characters who do have souls (Vivi, the Mages in the Black Mage Village; Zidane and Kuja, perhaps Makoto, with the Genomes). It's furthermore interesting because while they are mirrors, their purposes are different; Genomes were created to support life (harboring lost Terran souls, even at the cost of destroying others), while the Black Mages were created to destroy life. Compared to FFVII's "you are a puppet" and VIII's anything in that game, IX's plot twist comes off as tame. Azure_Horizon fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Jul 29, 2012 |
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Jul 29, 2012 10:33
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I'm talking about how "deep" they got, not really if it was well written or anything. They're more complicated than Villain = Brother.
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Jul 29, 2012 10:40
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Momomo posted:I'm talking about how "deep" they got, not really if it was well written or anything. They're more complicated than Villain = Brother. Well what I'm saying is that aside from the previous PSX FFs, IX's twist isn't as left-field as it is in those games. It more or less strengthens concepts introduced earlier in the game.
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Jul 29, 2012 10:41
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Momomo posted:I'm talking about how "deep" they got, not really if it was well written or anything. They're more complicated than Villain = Brother. Presenting the plot in such a way that it seems totally weird and odd doesn't work, since even the simplest plot in the series can be explained in a "wow, this is so stupid" way.
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Jul 29, 2012 11:25
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That comes at the very end of the game, though. There isn't time for that to be one of the major themes of IV.
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Jul 29, 2012 11:30
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What party is best for the gran pulse section of xiii? I'm currently rolling with light/hope/vanille - will not having a tank hurt me later on?
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Jul 29, 2012 12:38
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There are a couple fights that you might want to switch a tank in, but it's never really necessary for just random mooks. For the most part, being offensive is more important. Light/Hope/Vanille was my team for a long time, before I switched Vanille with Fang for the extra damage from her being a commando. So you should be fine.
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Jul 29, 2012 15:11
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Novum posted:Don't get mad. I need someone to give me some motivation to give 13 another try. I've had a fair bit of fun with literally every FF game I've played but I ran out of steam on 13 like 6 months ago and haven't gone back since. I'm sure there is something interesting or fun right around the corner? Anything? You want encouragement to play XIII? Well, I didn't hate it. You've heard the criticisms already, but here's the good: It has a fantastic battle system, the music is chill, and the creature and environment designs are crazy-excellent. While Snow, Hope, and Vanille have their flaws rubbed in your face a lot, they were at least deliberately written to be like that, and you have Sazh, Lightning, and Fang, who loving rock and are some of the coolest characters now in the franchise. The earlier parts of the game restrict you mechanically, but the story is at its best. It loses coherence later, but by then the game mechanics have opened up, and the battle system is great. While I myself look back upon FFXIII as a game that did not, at all, add up to the sum of its parts, I ended up putting around 100 hours into it, and they all just flew by.
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Jul 29, 2012 17:08
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I'm having a lot of fun trying out the various jobs in FF5. But, are there any jobs (I'm up to the third set of them, so the newest ones I have are geomancers/beastmasters/ninja) that aren't worth the time at all? EDIT: Oh, and any other random tips/things to look out for would be nice too.
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Jul 29, 2012 17:15
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I'm having a lot of fun trying out the various jobs in FF5. But, are there any jobs (I'm up to the third set of them, so the newest ones I have are geomancers/beastmasters/ninja) that aren't worth the time at all? They're all pretty good but for Berserker, but the Geomancer's somewhat random, weak-ish, and locale-specific magic (so the enemies are often resistant to or absorb it) is pretty unimpressive for me too. They don't make bad mages if they're your only option, though.
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Jul 29, 2012 17:23
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I'm having a lot of fun trying out the various jobs in FF5. But, are there any jobs (I'm up to the third set of them, so the newest ones I have are geomancers/beastmasters/ninja) that aren't worth the time at all? Geomancers will have a very good use (for a very short time) later when you are forced to walk through a bit of lava, as they cause the whole party to take no damage from floor types. They do have free magic, but it's location specific so may not always be the best option. Berserkers can be very good, but I wouldn't use them on a first playthrough.
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Jul 29, 2012 17:37
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Yeah, I've been using geomancer right and often it will do some good damage, but then it will roll something like quicksand and miss. As for berserker, I used it enough to give Bartz bersek, I can see how they could be tough to use but I am interested to see what they're abilities are. They cost so much ABP that they HAVE to be good!
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Jul 29, 2012 17:42
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