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I have this theory that the War of 1812 is brushed over in public schools because America gets its clock cleaned.
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Jul 30, 2012 20:57
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Rand alPaul posted:I have this theory that the War of 1812 is brushed over in public schools because America gets its clock cleaned. I had a drill sergeant once unironically say that america salutes the way it does because it has 'never been defeated'. It took a while for the shocked look on my face to fade away.  e: I am dumb. Thanks Genesis. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 30, 2012 21:14
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syntaxrigger posted:I had a drill sergeant once unironically say that america salutes the way it does because it has 'never been defeated'. It took a while for the shocked look on my face to fade away. I wonder what his explanation would have been for the stunning victory achieved by US forces in Vietnam. Speaking of which:  Also, you might want to post a pic!
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Jul 30, 2012 21:22
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syntaxrigger posted:I had a drill sergeant once unironically say that america salutes the way it does because it has 'never been defeated'. It took a while for the shocked look on my face to fade away. The outcome of the war could be interpreted as a victory, though it was more a stalemate. American accounts also tend to leave out the fact that we burned down Toronto (Then York) a little before Washington was torched.
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Jul 30, 2012 21:25
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Rand alPaul posted:I have this theory that the War of 1812 is brushed over in public schools because America gets its clock cleaned.  Battle of New Orleans: better late than never  General Jackson really did stand out in the open to signal the charge like that.
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Jul 30, 2012 21:27
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Rand alPaul posted:I have this theory that the War of 1812 is brushed over in public schools because America gets its clock cleaned. A lot of poo poo in American history is ignored by public schools. You should read Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong, by this badass beardie guy, James W. Loewen.  He spent two years surveying twelve of the leading high school American history textbooks and found them all to be white-washed, nationalistic, and more often than not getting facts and contexts wrong. He also wrote a really interesting book about sundown towns, towns where local laws or customs were instituted in an effort to keep minorities from settling in the towns. Darkman Fanpage fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jul 30, 2012 |
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Jul 30, 2012 21:32
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Gazpacho posted:'scuse me but that's not quite the way I learned it in the Tennessee curriculum. If only someone had taken the opportunity to put a bullet in the sonofabitch... 
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Jul 30, 2012 21:36
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Crasscrab posted:A lot of poo poo in American history is ignored by public schools. You should read Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong, by this badass beardie guy, James W. Loewen.  My high school history teacher had us reading passages from A People's History.
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Jul 30, 2012 21:37
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Crasscrab posted:A lot of poo poo in American history is ignored by public schools. You should read Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong, by this badass beardie guy, James W. Loewen. That book is excellent and he's correct about school history textbooks. Today it's worse than ever with school textbooks and that is coming from a teacher who got to select curriculum for a school. Loewen is a relic of education, he remembers when were supposed to teach people how to think critically.
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Jul 30, 2012 21:38
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Highspeeddub posted:Today it's worse than ever with school textbooks and that is coming from a teacher who got to select curriculum for a school. 
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Jul 30, 2012 21:45
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the2ndgenesis posted:I wonder what his explanation would have been for the stunning victory achieved by US forces in Vietnam. We never actually declared war so it doesn't count.  Goebbels photobombs Hitler: 
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Jul 30, 2012 22:04
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Zeroisanumber posted:If only someone had taken the opportunity to put a bullet in the sonofabitch... Someone already had; it wasn't enough to stop him. 
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Jul 30, 2012 22:26
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The War of 1812 really doesn't matter. Canada remained British, America remained under US control, British Expansion in North America never went beyond Canada and US expansion was checked at the time. It's really just a sad sticking point that Canada pretends it did something neato. Canadian Aboriginal People at a forced Residential School, with a anually mortality rate of 6% to 12%.  And Canadian internment of Japanese-Canadians, starting with confiscation of fishing vessels and was influence by years of racism and hatred of the Japanese.   They weren't legally "interned", but they could not work or attend schools outside of the camps and had little property after confiscation of their property. What property was confiscated? Farm land, homes and clothing, fishing boats, bank deposits, stocks and bonds. What happened to these goods? Prime Minister King of Canada declared that since these goods were held by "enemy aliens" that they needed to be sold.     And the Japanese-Canadians were used manual labor as "other groups were abandoning for more lucrative employment elsewhere   Ian Mackenzie, MP posted:It is the governments plan to get these people out of B.C. as fast as possible. It is my personal intention, as long as I remain in public life, to see they never come back here. Let our slogan be for British Columbia: No Japs from the Rockies to the seas.' That racial outburst was seen as offensive especially following the war that thousands of Canadians died in to fight against such terrible policies.... Just kidding! Japanese-Canadians who had all of the property stolen and were imprisoned for 4 years were given the option of moving east of the Rockies or forced deportation to Japan! 3,964 Japanese-Canadian, vast majority born in Canada, made the journey to post-war Japan.  The law was upheld as legal and restrictions weren't lifted against the Japanese until 1949. Of course Canada, being so much more humane than the Americans, apologized for this a whole month after Reagan made apologies for the similar and better well known internment of Japanese-Americans. I guess what I'm saying is go to hell Canada.
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Jul 30, 2012 22:42
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 Pope-Chan ~uguuuu~
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Jul 30, 2012 22:51
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LP97S posted:Canadian Aboriginal People at a forced Residential School, with a anually mortality rate of 6% to 12%. The French studied what what North Americans did to their indigenous populations and tried the same thing with their non-French populations. Because of the state school system Brittany went from majority Breton speaking to only 5% Breton speaking between 1950 and now.  To schoolchildren! It is forbidden: 1. To spit on the ground and speak Breton! 2. To wet your fingers in your mouth to turn the pages on your notebook or books. 3. To put the end of a quill or a pencil in your ear. 4. To clean slates by spitting on them or licking them. 5. To put quills, pencils, pieces of change, etc.; Do you want to know why these things are forbidden? Ask your schoolmasters, who will give you the necessary explanations. Remember that you must not only know all of these rules and regulations but you must let everyone else know them.
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Jul 30, 2012 23:05
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Political in the "poetic justice" category. According to facebook sources, these workmen were called in by the senior managers at the Royal Hospital in Belfast, to install cast-iron bollards to stop nurses from parking on the pavement outside their building. So ... that went well, obviously. 
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Jul 30, 2012 23:30
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Tias posted:If you are going to credit it, it was made by Kate Beaton over at http://www.harkavagrant.com Leon Czolgosz actually went to a ton of anarchist meetings but everywhere he went everyone assumed he was some sort of cop because he seemed way to eager was a stranger to everyone.  Free Society posted:The attention of the comrades is called to another spy. He is well dressed, of medium height, rather narrow shoulders, blond and about 25 years of age. Up to the present he has made his appearance in Chicago and Cleveland. In the former place he remained but a short time, while in Cleveland he disappeared when the comrades had confirmed themselves of his identity and were on the point of exposing him. His demeanor is of the usual sort, pretending to be greatly interested in the cause, asking for names or soliciting aid for acts of contemplated violence. If this same individual makes his appearance elsewhere the comrades are warned in advance, and can act accordingly. Also Emma Goldman had swag  and people used to wear more hats 
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Jul 30, 2012 23:40
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FRINGE posted:And in honor of them heres Bucky. I like this a lot  "Onwards comrades!"   also   
ekuNNN fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 30, 2012 23:52
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Rand alPaul posted:I have this theory that the War of 1812 is brushed over in public schools because America gets its clock cleaned. syntaxrigger posted:I had a drill sergeant once unironically say that america salutes the way it does because it has 'never been defeated'. It took a while for the shocked look on my face to fade away. Kavak posted:The outcome of the war could be interpreted as a victory, though it was more a stalemate. American accounts also tend to leave out the fact that we burned down Toronto (Then York) a little before Washington was torched. LP97S posted:The War of 1812 really doesn't matter. Canada remained British, America remained under US control, British Expansion in North America never went beyond Canada and US expansion was checked at the time. It's really just a sad sticking point that Canada pretends it did something neato. Holy poo poo, no. Let's talk the War of 1812, why we did it, and the cultural legacy of it. There were 4 points of view on that conflict, funny how everyone always talks about the same 3, and not the 1 that was the most important. Canadians like to claim that they stopped an attempt to annex them, which is nice and nationalistic but has no historical backing besides being the reason cited by members of Parliament to justify it. Madison did the same thing with the Henry Letters, so it probably makes us even. The British like to claim it was a sideshow to their real conflict with France, which is more or less true. The colonies were more productive and thus critical to the war effort so protecting them mattered, but only because they were critical to the war. The only reason to fight for them at the time was so you could fight elsewhere. Americans like to get nice and vague about British impressment of sailors and trade treaties, but that's a lot of modern handwaving. America had a very clear goal in that war, and it achieved it. That would make it a clear victory, except that today we don't want to talk about what that goal was. It was to deal with the final group, lead by this guy.  Meet Tecumseh, warleader of the Shawnee Confederation Before our historical revisionism set in, this guy was in our cultural memory the way Hannibal was for the Romans, and for pretty much the same reasons. He and his brother Tenskwatawa (the religious leader of the Shawnee Confederation) probably have the strongest claim to leading a significant push back by the natives, and what arguably was the most successful. Tenskwatawa preached religious revival among the natives. He gathered together a movement of Algonquin speaking tribes and called for a rejection of European influence, gathering a force of 3,000 at Tippacanoe, Indiana. At the same time, Tecumseh went south, and rallied elements of the Creek, Cherokee, and Osages to the cause. Now, while the brothers preached a rejection of European goods, it was more of a "do as I say, not as I do" thing. The Chalahgawtha Shawnee established robust trade with the British traders companies, Canadian towns, and remaining French groups. Through them the goods moved though new inter-tribe trade, resulting in a much higher flow of guns to the natives than the settlers liked. A united front of natives, with a capital city, that was establishing trade ties with other nations? Oh yeah, that needed to go. America tried to stop the flow of guns into the Shawnee Confederacy and evict the natives, but with little success. The Canadians were getting wealthy, the remaining French groups didn't answer to Napoleon, and the British denied the idea that the Treaty of Paris could be interpreted in such a way to force them to stop Canada from selling guns to the natives. In 1811 the United States (under Governor William Henry Harrison) moved against Tippacanoe. Despite being caught completely by surprise, the Shawnee managed to rally about 400 warriors who held the Americans off for 2 hours, and inflicted enough casualties to make them stop for the the day. When the Americans moved in the next day, the town had been evacuated except for one sick elderly woman. Harrison had the Americans dig up and scalp the bodies from the native graves, and burned the place to the ground. Fearing that Tecumseh would return soon, Harrison then retreated to his fort and dug in. Well Tecumseh did return with a force from the south, but he did not attack Harrison. The battle of Tippacanoe was pretty much the end for Tenskwatawa, who was stripped of his political power after the defeat. Instead Tecumseh took over and consolidated his position as leader of the pan-Indian confederation. He then leaned on his British allies to provide more arms, and rallied an army of ~10,000 men. That meant he had about as many men as the professional US Army at the time, more under some counts. His coordination in raising this force with the British, and the significance of the threat, was a strong driving force in starting the war of 1812. By this time the Shawnee had again returned to Tippacanoe to establish their city. Destruction of the Shawnee Confederation became a pressing priority for America. When the war finally broke out, America had to direct significant resources to stopping Tecumseh, leaving the other fronts to have a higher proportion of militia. In the end, they had to take a multi-pronged approach. First, they split some of the tribes of from the Confederation. This resulted in groups like the Chocotaw refusing to join, the Creek War (a civil war within the tribe over american vs native groups), and numerous other smaller splits. Secondly, they moved to control the movement of supplies by engaging on the Great Lakes and rivers. Third, they moved to pull away British resources by attacking targets of no value to the natives, and by threatening to execute any British prisoners caught fighting along side the natives. A result of this saw Tecumseh's alliance steadily deteriorate, as a lack of supplies and reinforcements took their toll. It ultimately culminated at the Battle of Thanes, where Tecumseh himself was killed. The natives were not a professional force, so their army was led by a cult of personality rather than organized bureaucracy. With no uniting force afterwards, this effectively broke the back of the confederation, and was an end to Indian resistance east of the Mississippi. At the time, the impact this had on American cultural identity was severe. Anger over American desecration and actions at Tippacanoe led to similar war crimes by some elements of the Confederation. Further, the early campaign saw a number of high profile victories at Detroit, Dearborn, and Frenchtown. Between those and the propaganda designed to convince the British to abandon the natives, it did more to elevate the profile of Tecumseh. Harrison would brag about his victory over the Shawnee (conveniently leaving out that Tecumseh wasn't there and the city was abandoned by the time he took it). Many of the officers at the Battle of Thames would later claim to have been the one to kill Tecumseh and that they took souvenirs from his corpse, but accounts from the retreating natives indicate that was lies. His military successes made it so it was not uncommon to see a lot of military families name sons after him (eg General William Tecumseh Sherman). Fear of a similar threat arising from the Seminole played a role in how aggressive Andrew Jackson was in removing the natives from American territory. Tecumseh was in many respect, the American boogeyman and was treated in a way analogous to Ghengis Khan or Hannibal. He and his movement served as our generic cultural bad guys until the the Southern Confederacy came along ("Waving the bloody shirt") who were then replaced by the Nazis. Further, it steadily became less than polite to talk about the genocide of the Native Americans. Now we don't talk about what we wanted to do in the War of 1812, or what exactly were were celebrating when we did it. His role in history has steadily been diminished. Yet had he been successful in getting an Indian nation recognized internationally, the world would have been a very different place.
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Jul 31, 2012 00:55
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Fried Chicken posted:
Fascinating. Reminds me of the western front in the War of Independence- The Iroquois Confederation split apart (The Tuscarora and the Oneida sided with the colonists, while the Mohawk, Seneca, Onondaga and Cayuga sided with the British), the British armed their allies and sent them to raid western New York, we armed ours and sent them to kill any British-allied natives they found, and the result was basically mutual campaigns of genocide. A third of the white population was killed (Can't find numbers for the natives) and very few buildings remained at the end of the war. 
Kavak fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 31, 2012 01:27
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Soviet Commubot posted:The French studied what what North Americans did to their indigenous populations and tried the same thing with their non-French populations. Because of the state school system Brittany went from majority Breton speaking to only 5% Breton speaking between 1950 and now. There a still a chunk fighting the fight, evidently:  As I track, Pays de Loire contains a chunk of what was historically Brittany, including the major Breton city of Nantes. Pays de Loire is just a administrative convenience made up of chunks of various historic regions, so it's a sore spot that a number of Breton territories are trapped in this artificial state. The "44=Bretagne" or "44=Breizh" refers to the license-plate code for Nantes, which is 44. French license plates have little flags for what region they're registered in, and some ethnic Bretons living in Nantes are quite upset they have to have the Pays de Loire, vice Breton, flag on their license plate.  I'm getting dangerously close to flagchat here, so instead I'll submit this clip of a modern version of the fest noz ("nightfest"), late night traditional dance parties. This one is a somewhat rockified, and they're using a pipe more like the Scottish pipe rather than the traditional Breton veuze, and the dancing is a bit muted due to it being crowded, but all that aside a slick event.
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Jul 31, 2012 01:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZYsYtX1Za0 Are we safer?
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Jul 31, 2012 02:55
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Xandu posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZYsYtX1Za0 hahaha everything about this video America: the only place in the world where the phrase "closed down 'Black Sites' and ended 'Enchanced Interrogation'" is used as an accusation. e: oh gently caress megarule  Verdun before/after the famous battle sum fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 31, 2012 03:15
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Xandu posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZYsYtX1Za0  http://www.salon.com/2012/07/29/be_afraid_americas_paranoid_history/ 
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Jul 31, 2012 03:30
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LP97S posted:Some western country (in this case Canada) did a bad thing Well you forgot about the BC eugenics program, but kudos to you for being brave enough to put Canada in their place about being a dickish western country. That comment in the end really classed an otherwise informative post. Content:  quote:"We do not stand alone": Nazi poster from 1936 with flags of other countries with compulsory sterilization legislation And in case you happen to be a yank: here are a few great things that happened
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Jul 31, 2012 03:38
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JoelJoel posted:Content: I like how it highlights the parts of Germany that were annexed to Poland after WWI, as if it's hinting at something...
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Jul 31, 2012 03:53
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JoelJoel posted:Well you forgot about the BC eugenics program, but kudos to you for being brave enough to put Canada in their place about being a dickish western country. That comment in the end really classed an otherwise informative post. Thanks for putting me in my place for insulting a construct of imperialism  
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Jul 31, 2012 03:54
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Schicklgruber and Dzhugashvili could have made a deal, but Hitler and Stalin cannot!         
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Jul 31, 2012 04:12
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LP97S posted:Thanks for putting me in my place for insulting a construct of imperialism No problem, chief. I have no beef with stating facts, but the hate is needless. Here are some Mohawk warriors:    ^Tyendinaga blockade  ^Caledonia blockade  ^Caledonia again
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Jul 31, 2012 04:22
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Fried Chicken posted:Very informative post I'm completely ashamed to have skipped that as a main point of the War of 1812. I was addressing the dickwaving of 3 genocidal countries that continue to this day. Anyway, some light pictures.   
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Jul 31, 2012 05:18
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PokeJoe posted:If we're doing songs. Did you know that Johnny Horton recorded different lyrics for the UK version of his most famous novelty hit? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWVypBROMgQ Everyone's a winner!
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Jul 31, 2012 06:04
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FreudianSlippers posted:Leon Czolgosz actually went to a ton of anarchist meetings but everywhere he went everyone assumed he was some sort of cop because he seemed way to eager was a stranger to everyone. It seems weird since it's pretty easy to get into radical organizations today, but then you have to remember that repression of anarchist organizations was extremely high in those days. I love showing these anarchist union pics from the first half of 1900 to people, when you talk about anarchists people usually don't expect people a) in the hundreds of thousands and b) wearing suits. Content awe yeeeeeeee:  (bonus tidbit: Apparently Emma hit a guy in the face repeatedly with a horsewhip for suggesting that Berkman shooting at an industrialist and getting himself jailed perhaps weren't the best among tactics.)
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Jul 31, 2012 09:19
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:There a still a chunk fighting the fight, evidently: All of department 44, Loire Atlantique was part of Brittany until the Pétain government reorganized the regions. In March I went to a big protest out in Quimper (Kemper) which was part of a series of protests all around France in favor of regional languages.  France, it's political parties and their servants, these are the enemies of our languages.  Nantes in Brittany.  "My heart beats in Breton" and "The Breton language is my country".   There was a contest organized by Ai'ta where participants would "acquire" monolingual French roadsigns and points would be awarded for age and size. I don't know what the winner got, I didn't make it to the final judging.  They then dumped them off in front of the local prefecture, where city workers took them away. That video you posted didn't show up, was it of Yaouank? I went the last 2 years and it was great. Also, if you speak French here's a trailer about a short film about the Breton language school system in Nantes and the people who send their children there, particularly immigrants. Part of it is in Breton so click "istitlet e galleg" for French subtitles. The full version is out there but I can't find one with subtitles on the Breton parts. http://www.france3breizh.fr/actualites/a-la-une/dibab-diwan-ur-film-dibar-gant-jc-huitorel
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Jul 31, 2012 10:17
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If coat of arms chat is flagchat by another name I will very happily delete my post and replace it with something else. Also I will apologize profusely. I'm not trying to start that stuff up. Here is a political picture.  It's the coat of arms of the family that once ruled my tiny, insignificant country. Luckily we managed to push them out because of their tyranny.
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Jul 31, 2012 10:19
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Ah yes, the infamous rule of the BYuLh.png family over the helpless nation of how loving difficult is it for you people to post a description of the loving nonsense you vomit up on the page? e: this is a picture of Stalin being fondled by two women. e2: Stalin was a pretty big deal a couple of years ago. You probably heard of him. e3: The picture is above is faked. There's actually very few colour pictures of Stalin himself left today. Mr. Sunshine fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 31, 2012 12:13
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Fried Chicken posted:Holy poo poo, no. Let's talk the War of 1812, why we did it, and the cultural legacy of it. Thanks for that. I'm not far from Tippy, as it's called here. Nobody has any idea of the bloody history. 
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Jul 31, 2012 14:12
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On the War of 1812, the Canadian government's been showing this all year. http://youtu.be/s4i_qe9W6Dk oh Harper
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Jul 31, 2012 14:48
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Bandanna posted:On the War of 1812, the Canadian government's been showing this all year. Yup, pretty loving embarrassing, if you ask me. Even if it was a war we won, as opposed to a skirmish that changed very little, why should we be proud? Gotta try and get that Pearson-y taste of peacekeeping out of our mouths now... 
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Jul 31, 2012 15:04
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Mr. Sunshine posted:Ah yes, the infamous rule of the BYuLh.png family over the helpless nation of how loving difficult is it for you people to post a description of the loving nonsense you vomit up on the page? Well it's the coat of arms of the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, so he's probably Irish and talking about telling the English cunts to gently caress off. Or maybe he's Saxon. 
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Jul 31, 2012 15:05
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 They're playing this movie at our lawnchair theater tonight and I'm pumped.
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Jul 31, 2012 17:37
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