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fold the T7s pre unless villain has really high f23bet and and f2ccbet in 3bet pot. we don't really no much about him so whatever just fold it's neutral EV. i dont think the flop is a mandatory cbet either but it's fine. i would bet larger on flop i think we called by so many overcards/draws and we wanna charge their equity or make them fold it. mad lol at folding 87s when folded to us in CO. fold riv tho our hand only beats total air, 67 got there, he's not going to bluff into two ppl in a strange spot etc.
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Jul 21, 2012 03:41
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Dr. Eat posted:mad lol at folding 87s when folded to us in CO.
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Jul 21, 2012 03:55
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I'm going to get yelled at for leaving this information out but in the 87 hand the SB was playing a 50/7 vp. As for the 107s hand I will admit I had a bit of a fancy player syndrome going on because I knew I would be sending the hands elsewhere for review. I would also not 3-bet that hand after I had seen him flat a 3 bet because now I know there is a pretty decent chance I'm going to have to play it post flop. Up until that point he was just folding. But that brings me to another question. Seeing how there is a pretty fishy dude in the bb is it worth 3 betting premiums now for value if I think theres a good chance he is going to be flatting or is keeping the fish in the hand better? The fish in question was the "I'll call 3 streets with middle pair even if your betting pot"type fish. TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jul 21, 2012 |
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Jul 21, 2012 04:26
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Yeah, repopping T7s is getting seriously out of hand, even if the guy folds regularly to 3-bets pre. That's just a huge range for you, which is going to force him to adjust because it's so obvious you're exploiting him. And while you're calling range may be wider with a weak BB, 3-betting gets the BB to fold most of the time even if he's weak, so that's not really an argument for reraising. As for raising 78o from the CO 6-handed with weak players behind, I've got no problem with that. TheAbortionator posted:Seeing how there is a pretty fishy dude in the bb is it worth 3 betting premiums now for value if I think theres a good chance he is going to be flatting or is keeping the fish in the hand better? Flatting is a much bigger risk because you're inviting the fish in, which means you have an extra hand to dodge. Even with a premium pair, your chances of winning drastically drop with more players involved. Not only that, but 3-betting gives the fish a chance to make a bigger mistake. You really think a fish who calls three PSBs with middle pair is folding a hand like KJo to a 3-bet? Most of the time, those types are constitutionally incapable of folding any paint cards, so charge them for it and hope they wake up with something pretty. When they do have something they can't fold, you're probably going to stack them.
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Jul 21, 2012 11:07
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Just got home from a 1/2 poker session at a local charity room. I got into a spot that I am never comfortable with and need some advice! I am SB with A9ss(sitting on ~400). We get 3 limpers and I decide to complete. I am not comfortable raising to 12-15 when I know I will get called in at least two places(mistake 1?). BB who is sitting on about 160 bumps it up to 12. There are two callers(one sitting on $250) and so I decide to see a flop. Flop: Ks 10s 8x. I check and BB bets $20. EP folds and then MP shoves for $39, which closes raises. My thought here is that BB is never folding for another $19 and decide to call. Is this correct? I call and BB actually tries to raise. Dealer reminds him that he can not raise and is forced to call. Turn: 7x. Pretty nice card giving me an open-ender along with my NFD. However, this is where I am really lost. I have a feeling BB is just going to shove all his hands whenever I check to him since he tried 3betting turn. However, shoving myself seems pretty gross as well since I only have a draw and am almost certain BB is calling with all his pairs or better. Am I just getting it in and hoping to spike a spade, 6 or J? Or do I just check fold turn? How the gently caress do I play these types of hands where I have a great draw but action is closed due to short stack shoving? Sypher fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 06:31
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Looks like you are getting 130:39 odds, 3.33:1. So with the immediate odds you need 23% equity, and you have to count that with just 1 card to come since he should jam turn almost always. You also have some implied odds though, so it seems like its a call on the flop, but it is kinda thin. If the betting was still open, you would have to fold.
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Jul 26, 2012 08:40
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ZeroStar posted:Looks like you are getting 130:39 odds, 3.33:1. So with the immediate odds you need 23% equity, and you have to count that with just 1 card to come since he should jam turn almost always. You also have some implied odds though, so it seems like its a call on the flop, but it is kinda thin. If the betting was still open, you would have to fold. Yeah, if shorty had an extra buck im folding every time. The turn is what gets me. I add an additional 6 outs, but BB doesn't have enough chips to get to river without committing his whole stack. Is the correct play to just check/fold? It is what I did. River bricked and I would have lost. For some reason it is still bothering me. I am not sure why since I know he is never calling with worse if I shove and I am only folding out maybe 8's and weak 10's. On top of that, I can pretty much throw out 8s because I can't think of many holdings with an 8 that he is raising pre from the BB. At least I am too a point where I am not thinking results oriented? Old me would have patted myself on the back and forgot about the hand by now.
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Jul 26, 2012 19:39
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Sypher posted:At least I am too a point where I am not thinking results oriented? Sypher posted:River bricked and I would have lost. Shoving and trying to fold out better shouldn't matter too much because you're losing to the all-in player when you miss anyways, at least most of the time. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 19:58
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Winning/losing doesn't bother me in this. I just don't have much experience in these types of situations. I was mainly trying to convey a reason as to why I am harping on the hand so much. Which I do think is a significant improvement to where I was a year ago or so. I would only think about hands where I lost a huge pot or didn't get value when I had the deck crushed. Short stack had reloaded a couple times and was really gambling his draws. I actually think I am ahead of him a decent amount of the time. Especially since I stacked him earlier and he has been visibly tilting. He has played every hand I have been involved in since I stacked him.
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Jul 26, 2012 20:18
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Why not just check jam the flop here with $107 in the pot and BB with only $130 behind?
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Jul 26, 2012 20:25
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MAN OF MANY MOUTHS posted:Why not just check jam the flop here with $107 in the pot and BB with only $130 behind? I can't. Action is closed on flop because short stack raised all-in for less than legal raise.
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Jul 26, 2012 20:36
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On the turn is is purely a pokerstove + pot odds problem. Figure out the odds you need, estimate his range, put in the board on pokerstove and see if you have enough equity to call. Don't forget to put the 3rd player in on stove as well, it should change the equities a little.
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Jul 26, 2012 20:54
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Sypher posted:I can't. Action is closed on flop because short stack raised all-in for less than legal raise. But you haven't put anything in the pot and have yet to call the initial raise..? Am i wrong here thinking you can do whatever and the BB is the only one with his hands tied to calling the all in raise if you call it??? What kind of crazy game is this??? MAN OF MANY MOUTHS fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 21:03
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Pitr: 8 years strong, still don't understand rules of poker I think calling in this specific spot is great since he can't raise, but I wouldn't dismiss shoving if the short stack jammed 2x here. Edit: "He" meaning original raiser. Apparently it's not so obvious that hero CAN raise. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 22:52
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The rule is betting is not considered re-open if a guy who goes all-in does not have a full-raise. That does not exclude Hero from jamming flop here if he so choose, since the rule only applies to the original opener, who cannot "reraise" since essentially the other players are just calling. Hero is free to reraise against the openers bet.
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Jul 26, 2012 23:36
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At this room, once someone is all in for less than legal raise all action is closed. Even if you are not original bettor. That's how it is at a lot of the charity rooms here. Figured it was a live thing?
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Jul 27, 2012 06:46
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Hypothetical: Guy has $3 in a 1/2 game. Limps to him and he goes all in. No one can do raise for the rest of the hand or the rest of the round? Another guy in front of him min raises to $4 and $3 dude calls. Anyone can now re-raise right?
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Jul 27, 2012 15:01
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Is it like cap where the cap is whenever someone jams
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Jul 27, 2012 15:07
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That makes no sense. No, it is not "a live thing"
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Jul 27, 2012 15:21
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I'm trying to determine where I screwed up the worst. I'm a sucker for calling speculative hands out of the blinds so folding pre-flop is probably a legit option, but I couldn't help it. The button clicked itself. Leading the turn seems like a good option but with UTG+1 playing mostly fit/fold and c-betting, a big ace is probably a good portion of his range. Turn check I don't mind. Now I'm reasonably sure I'm ahead of UTG+1 on the river so I lead out. I'm pretty surprised at CO's raise. Unless he has the same hand as me or pocket 8s, I can't see him checking the turn behind. A slowplayed boat probably would have 3bet pre. -UTG+1 was super nitty and playing at least 6 tables, like 13/10 over 2-3k hands. -CO was running about 45/19 over ~250 hands. I didn't see him get out of hand really in the previous hour or so but he was bleeding his stack away pretty consistently with odd holdings like Q3s. quote:$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
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Jul 27, 2012 15:44
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8
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($2.35, 3 players)
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Lote posted:Hypothetical: 1.) At every charity room I have encountered the situation(2 or 3?), action is closed for the round. Action opens back up on the flop allowing other players to bet. Even if he shoved UTG for $3, nobody else can re-raise. Which actually makes the rule sound even more ridiculous. However, players are terrible at these charity rooms so I guess i'll live with it. I could be wrong. Maybe people who have not acted yet are able to raise(I.E. in my example, UTG+1 could raise). Haven't seen that happen. But I definitely know that in my case since I had the option and checked, I am unable to raise. 2.) Action is open for the rest of the table because there was no illegal raise.
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Jul 27, 2012 20:19
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Edit: nevermind. retarded rules, they just don't understand how poker works in no scenario, including the two you listed, does it make even the slightest of sense Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jul 27, 2012 |
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Jul 27, 2012 20:30
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Ozu posted:I'm trying to determine where I screwed up the worst. I'm a sucker for calling speculative hands out of the blinds so folding pre-flop is probably a legit option, but I couldn't help it. The button clicked itself. This hand looks OK, probably bet a little more on the river because an ace is calling anyways. I would fold to the raise on the river, CO is probably silly enough to check back 5x on the turn, he has lots of them in his preflop range and is calling them all on the flop (unlike a tighter opponent). It should be a rare occasion that you get raised here, but I would expect people to bluff here almost never.
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Jul 28, 2012 10:10
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Yeah, a bluff just isn't really credible here, which means if the guy isn't a complete moron, he's not jamming unless he's really got it. His preflop range is huge, and this looks like a value shove hoping one of you will be skeptical that he really has a hand trashy enough on this turn and river, but he will have it basically all the time unless the guy is a complete spewtard. If he were going to fire at weakness, he should have done it on the turn. Waking up and bluffing the river after a bet and a call is a terrible idea. He's got at least a five almost all the time, and probably has a wonky boat pretty regularly.
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Jul 28, 2012 11:31
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I think I'm most annoyed at my flop call being as a high ace is a pretty large portion of UTG+1's range. A suited ace with a fish in a multiway pot I could talk myself into PF, but I realize it's pretty marginal either way. Turn and river I'm ok with but yeah, betting a little would be better value. Thanks. River: 8 ($7.03, 3 players) Hero bets $4, UTG+1 calls $4, CO raises to $18.27, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds Final Pot: $33.30 CO wins $32.35 (net +$11.77) Diva Cupcake fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jul 28, 2012 |
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Jul 28, 2012 15:07
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Villain is a 40/10 fish. Is bet/folding here what I should be doing all day every day? PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 4 Hero (BTN): $41.04 SB: $59.92 BB: $34.37 UTG: $29.59 MP: $42.63 CO: $15.64 SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25 Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has J:spade: K:club: fold, MP calls $0.25, fold, Hero raises to $1.00, fold, fold, MP calls $0.75 Flop: ($2.35, 2 players) Q:diamond: T:club: T:spade: MP checks, Hero bets $1.25, MP calls $1.25 Turn: ($4.85, 2 players) A:spade: MP checks,Hero bets $3.00], MP calls $3.00 River: ($10.85, 2 players) 8:club: MP checks, Hero bets $7.00, ]MP raises to $37.38 and is all-in, fold
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Aug 1, 2012 17:57
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Yep.
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Aug 1, 2012 20:36
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I agree, looks good to me.
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Aug 1, 2012 22:12
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UTG is 16/16 tag, seems a little on the nitty side. I am really not comfortable at playing deep and probably should have rat hole'ed out my double up, having said that should I have just folded turn here? I know its a flopped set and getting it in on the flop is usually the answer but I have a hard time believing I'm being bluffed by the raise on the flop considering how wet the board is. Pretty sure he has all 16 combos of AK. Also 3 combos of qq but also 3 of 1010 we beat which I think cancel each other out, but I'm not even sure he raises those here. PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 4 BTN: $71.02 Hero (SB): $48.45 BB: $10.56 UTG: $69.68 MP: $42.50 CO: $25.00 Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25 Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has J:diamond: J:spade: UTG raises to $0.75], fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.25, fold, UTG calls $1.50 Flop: ($4.75, 2 players) Q:diamond: T:heart: J:club: Hero bets $2.50, UTG raises to $8.22, Hero calls $5.72 Turn: ($21.19, 2 players) 7:club: Hero checks UTG bets $12.12, Hero calls $12.14 River: ($45.47, 2 players) 9:club: Hero checks, UTG bets $32.60, fold UTG wins $43.47 TheAbortionator fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 19:41
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When he flats pre, TT is more likely then QQ is more likely then AK; if he's not aggro enough to get it in pre with AK, then why 3bet JJ? I think a flat pre is fine. Rest of it seems all right without the read that villain is aggro, but I would call the river; I believe you have odds if he bets TT, QQ, AK, but not if KK is included; but I don't think we can assume he plays it so aggressively.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:03
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Why call the turn if you aren't gonna call the river? My thinking is either check raise turn or fold.
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Aug 15, 2012 01:18
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Ranma posted:When he flats pre, TT is more likely then QQ is more likely then AK; if he's not aggro enough to get it in pre with AK, then why 3bet JJ? I think a flat pre is fine. Rest of it seems all right without the read that villain is aggro, but I would call the river; I believe you have odds if he bets TT, QQ, AK, but not if KK is included; but I don't think we can assume he plays it so aggressively. We can 3bet JJ with the intention of folding to a 4bet np. He's going to call often. I'm also snapfolding river he can have AK no problem and hes probably not betting again with TT or QQ. Nifty posted:Why call the turn if you aren't gonna call the river? My thinking is either check raise turn or fold. Well for one thing we can boat up on river a good amount of the time and for another this is one of the worst rivers for us to see action on vs a nit.
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Aug 15, 2012 01:43
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I'm never 3betting JJ 200bb deep out of position when a nit opens UTG. I think it's pretty terrible.
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Aug 15, 2012 20:52
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MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:We can 3bet JJ with the intention of folding to a 4bet np. He's going to call often. I'm also snapfolding river he can have AK no problem and hes probably not betting again with TT or QQ. What is he flatting with that we're really going happy about? The worst he flats is probably JTs; a nit UTG getting 3bet is probably not calling with worse pairs except for maybe TT, and he probably isn't calling with 9Ts or A5s type hands. So we're bloating the pot, oop, against a range we're probably at best coinflipping with, and if he does actually have a hand we could win a big pot against, he's going to 4bet and we're going to have to fold. JJ seems more to be the top of our flatting range, not part of our 3betting range.
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Aug 16, 2012 00:38
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I agree I would not 3bet here. Stacks are deep so maybe he defends wider but I don't know if he's going to take that into account, especially at ZOOM.
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Aug 16, 2012 00:41
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It seems difficult to win the pot when we just flat oop. Also he might be UTG but it's UTG at 6m. Villain is going to flat probably QQ-, SCs from like 78s up, ATs+, KJs+, QJs idk it seems like he calls with a range that isnt doing very well vs us and we play a pot with initiative
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Aug 16, 2012 02:53
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MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:It seems difficult to win the pot when we just flat oop. Also he might be UTG but it's UTG at 6m. Villain is going to flat probably QQ-, SCs from like 78s up, ATs+, KJs+, QJs idk it seems like he calls with a range that isnt doing very well vs us and we play a pot with initiative He's a 16/16, and he's UTG. Does he even open 78s or KJs? He has to be opening 10% to get those in his range (22+,ATs+,KJs+,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,AKo), and then be flatting with almost all of it.. Maybe he does but I doubt it. Why is it difficult to win when we flat out of position? Are we never flatting out of position then? FWIW I think initiative is kinda retarded, so we might be coming from different perspectives.
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Aug 16, 2012 03:00
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Ranma posted:Why is it difficult to win when we flat out of position? Are we never flatting out of position then? How do we win the pot? We flop an overpair and.. ch/c? turn blanks and either goes ch/ch or ch/c and hope we get to showdown without any overcards. Or flop a set. When we 3b we can get a more solid idea of his range and we have a lot of different options on different boards. Basically same idea behind isolating a limp I guess, just gives us more/better ways to win the pot.
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Aug 16, 2012 03:57
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MY INEVITABLE DEBT posted:How do we win the pot? We flop an overpair and.. ch/c? turn blanks and either goes ch/ch or ch/c and hope we get to showdown without any overcards. Or flop a set. When we 3b we can get a more solid idea of his range and we have a lot of different options on different boards. Basically same idea behind isolating a limp I guess, just gives us more/better ways to win the pot. I mean, if you're arguing for always 3betting pre, okay. If not, you're going to have a flatting range, and this is a hand that should be in it.
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Aug 16, 2012 04:20
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| # ? May 24, 2024 01:58 |
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Vil is 16/16 over how many hands? That almost has to be such a low number of hands that it's nearly irrelevant information. If we do have a sample on him how often does he fold to 3b pre? If he calls too many 3bs then 3b JJ pre. If he's folding everything but the hands that beat us then flat.
AARO fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Aug 16, 2012 |
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Aug 16, 2012 05:15
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