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Juaguocio posted:Am I alone in thinking that the Dresden Files are total crap? I read up to Death Masks, and I couldn't take one more sentence of Butcher's awful prose. I rag on Erikson sometimes, but Butcher is so much worse that there's really no comparison. They are pretty bad but they're good as a guilty pleasure; very easy to read and you don't need to invest much in them. They're pretty far from epic fiction though and I think the reason they're brought up in this thread a lot is because they're polar opposites to the Malazan series rather than similar to it.
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Jul 23, 2012 14:56
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Masonity posted:Dresden, however, makes an excellent palate cleanser and comedown read after a Malazan book. When re-reading I tend to go Malaz/Dresden/Malaz/Dresden, while Abercrombie can be read one after the other. This was exactly how I made it through all the Malazan books. Dresden is a great guilty pleasure book where it's just a fun ride and a quick read so you feel like you've accomplished something reading wise after getting through a Malazan book that's the size of 4 regular novels.
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Jul 23, 2012 15:21
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Don't get me wrong- using lighter fare to break up heavier reading is a great idea; I like to use Agatha Christie novels for this application. I wonder if Erikson or ICE ever read Dame Agatha? Have either of them discussed their literary influences?
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Jul 24, 2012 06:15
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Robot Danger posted:Thanks guys. I'm pretty confident in my choice now. The difference in your own understanding of what's going on and why will be huge. geeksauce posted:I'm sorta low on cash at the moment due to a car payment and taxes coming out within the same week. The main reason I'm grabbing the first two at the same time is because my local B&Ns only have one copy of the MMPB copy of the second book. I hate the larger versions, as they don't feel as comfortable to me and they cost more. I'll try to pick up the third after my first paycheck in August. 
coyo7e fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jul 25, 2012 |
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Jul 25, 2012 22:00
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DoD spoilers: Just got to the first Malazan engagement versus the short tails in Dust of Dreams. Wow. I found the battle descriptions in Reaper's Gale to be really lackluster, but Erikson shows he still has it in that scene.
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Jul 26, 2012 12:16
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Well Erikson's explanation/apologia/invitation regarding the new trilogy is now up at tor: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2012/07/an...+and+Stories%29 I wonder if he felt compelled to write it out of fear of pissing off his current fanbase or what. I'm intrigued by the idea that it could be an introduction to the malazan world that's more palatable for people who have only been exposed to more traditionalist fantasy. Also prelude and chapter one: http://www.tor.com/stories/2012/07/forge-of-darkness-prelude-and-chapter-one-excerpt Fuzzy Mammal fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jul 26, 2012 |
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Jul 26, 2012 22:33
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Looks interesting. The main Malazan series itself isn't consistent in tone (As many have said in here it can be broken down into a few distinct periods from the dark early books to the wordy final books) so going for a new style doesn't seem like a huge stretch to me. EDIT: I thought the whole "convergence" structure was a bit of a ridiculous restriction on Erikson as a writer. Memories of Ice, the one book that somewhat breaks up this structure is arguably the best in the series. MaterialConceptual fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jul 27, 2012 |
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Jul 27, 2012 14:56
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:I wonder if he felt compelled to write it out of fear of pissing off his current fanbase or what. I'm sure, though that fear exists only in his mind. Even reading that apology is cringe-inducing. He really does seem to have an ego to him (he's even annoyingly arrogant about his fencing hobby!). I don't know why he thinks that he needs to apologize for changing writing styles. Does he honestly believe that his previous 'style' (as mentioned, this 'style' was hardly consistent in Book of the Fallen) was so amazing and literary and well-received by his fans without an iota of criticism that people will get mad if he changes it? I, for one, am happy to see him change his style. It got almost offensively stale by the end of Book of the Fallen and I'd like to see more storytelling like Memories of Ice and less like Reaper's Gale in the future.
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Jul 27, 2012 15:25
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If that essay is any indication the new trilogy will continue the theme of later Malazan books of being excessively wordy and in need of serious editing.
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Jul 27, 2012 15:34
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I'm about 60% through HoC, and I just have to come here and say that I didn't like Karsa at first. He was such a crappy character in terms of personality and was boring as hell (also a terrible person after raping the women in the village especially). Now that I'm over halfway through this book though, when I think of Karsa all I can say is URUGAL...WITNESS!!" Dude's a total badass already, I can see why everyone likes him. I'm so glad that he's grown into a character that's much better than initially presented.
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Jul 27, 2012 23:40
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A lot of characters in Malazan have growth that dwarfs the gold standard for most fantasy fiction readers, which I guess would be Jamie Lannister. You know how much you kinda hate Kallor right now? Mmmhmm.
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Jul 28, 2012 04:53
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Yarrbossa posted:I'm about 60% through HoC, and I just have to come here and say that I didn't like Karsa at first. He was such a crappy character in terms of personality and was boring as hell (also a terrible person after raping the women in the village especially). Now that I'm over halfway through this book though, when I think of Karsa all I can say is URUGAL...WITNESS!!" Pretty much the same way I felt when reading that for the first time. And man, you're in for a total treat when you reach near the end. Karsa hands out one of the most fitting punishments ever to one of the characters there. You'll know it when you read it.
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Jul 28, 2012 06:01
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I tried reading the last book. Between too many words wearing you down and an incredible list of characters I can't recall the significance of, I just gave up. Can one of you current on the books give me a quick summary of 9 (!) books of events? Goddammit
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Jul 29, 2012 21:20
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Grimwall posted:I tried reading the last book. Between too many words wearing you down and an incredible list of characters I can't recall the significance of, I just gave up. Can one of you current on the books give me a quick summary of 9 (!) books of events? Wait, by last did you mean first? Or do you want a summary of how the series ends? Series resolution spoilers: The Bone Hunter army liberates Letheras and after tipping their cap, starts a suicidal march over a desert that nobody can cross. People think it's the death site of a God, but the God is still alive but just an insane d'ivers that manifests as an army of carnivorous locusts. Letheras sends some important witnesses (Brys Beddict) to meet up with them at the final battle site, which is a fortress where a cabal of forkrul assail are attempting to use the heart of the crippled God to destroy the world. Basically, the heart is causing a convergence to end all convergences, with only the Malazan army having noble goals. Stormy and Gesler reach the heart site with their army of K'Chain Che'malle. Onos T'oolan, bent on revenge, leads the most pissed off group of T'lan Imass ever, Torrent dies after killing Olar Ethil on her journey to claim the heart following in Onos' wake. The Ribby Snake joins up with the Bonehunters on their march. Badalle uses the power of her voice to call down the insane god to eat a pureblood assail. Rake's raven's sacrifice themselves to create a vessel for the heart, the heart is saved by Storm and Gesler, who die, it's delivered to the vessel making TCG whole again, but still powerlessly chained to Burn, the otataral dragon arrives, and its nullification powers wipe out the bonds and free the Crippled God. All the while The Bonehunters and the new Bridgeburners die by the score, but taking dozens for every one they lose the final play in this ridiculously complex web is Cotillions' part to play, he appears and swiftly assassinates the alien crippled god to free him from his vessel, another kind of bond, and to let him go back to his home planet, to prevent the jade statues full of pissed off worshippers from destroying everything it's so good, its fantastic, i'm getting emotional right now just retelling a portion of the events, go read it, read the whole damned series. and I DIDN'T EVEN GET INTO THE EVENTS AT THE SHORE HOLY HELL, YEDAN DERRYG
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Jul 29, 2012 22:07
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Grimwall posted:I tried reading the last book. Between too many words wearing you down and an incredible list of characters I can't recall the significance of, I just gave up. Can one of you current on the books give me a quick summary of 9 (!) books of events? There's so many unfinished plotlines (from the series as a whole as there is in nearly every single book in it) but Erikson doesn't disappoint at the end of his series. It's been said a lot how good he is at the payoff at the end of a book, and at the end of the series it is suitably epic. Honestly, yea, it gets really bloated near the end, the one to stand out in my mind is Gruntle, and when I ever re-read it I'll just skim over those parts because the ending is really worth it. So my vote is just to skim over those parts that tire you. It's worth it.
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Jul 29, 2012 22:16
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There are a handful of unresolved plotlines, but, considering the number of resolved ones, I'd say what Erikson managed was pretty god damned impressive.
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Jul 29, 2012 22:24
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Loving Life Partner posted:Wait, by last did you mean first? Or do you want a summary of how the series ends? You forgot two huge things in the conclusion. Do not read this is you haven't finished The Crippled God, or have no intention of reading it. Whiskeyjack and Korlat's reunion on the hill and Toc being accepted into the bridgeburners. There was also the Cutter/Sorry reunion but to be honest Cutter sucks. Sorry could do so much better than him.
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Jul 29, 2012 23:37
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Of course, I think you are asking what happened in the first 9 books, not what happens in the last one. In which case, whelp. That'd be a pretty huge post. I'm not sure I'm the man to tackle that!
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Jul 29, 2012 23:39
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Loving Life Partner posted:A lot of characters in Malazan have growth that dwarfs the gold standard for most fantasy fiction readers, which I guess would be Jamie Lannister. I still don't like Kallor, hes pretty much just an old spiteful dick.
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Jul 30, 2012 06:46
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Masonity posted:Of course, I think you are asking what happened in the first 9 books, not what happens in the last one. This is true. That's why I am pretty hopeless about it. I was so amped up about it too! Starting crippled god basically was basically who the gently caress was that weirdly named character that sounds like another character oh god.
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Jul 30, 2012 08:05
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Grimwall posted:This is true. That's why I am pretty hopeless about it. I was so amped up about it too! Starting crippled god basically was basically who the gently caress was that weirdly named character that sounds like another character oh god. Oh I know who's who. I'm just a bit daunted at getting it all down in one post without missing huge chunks or getting things slightly out of sync. I might try giving it a shot tonight. No promises though, and if i do it, it'd better be put in the OP.
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Jul 30, 2012 09:16
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bigmcgaffney posted:I still don't like Kallor, hes pretty much just an old spiteful dick. He is, but I thought the way his character was fleshed out was extremely well done, Erikson added some great dimensions of dickishness to him.
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Jul 30, 2012 12:12
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Loving Life Partner posted:A lot of characters in Malazan have growth that dwarfs the gold standard for most fantasy fiction readers, which I guess would be Jamie Lannister. I'm just finishing up The Bonehunters but I agree with this 100%. Very rarely do I actually get attached to characters in books, but Erikson is able to give so many different characters their own personality it is crazy.
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Jul 30, 2012 23:39
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FlyingCowOfDoom posted:I'm just finishing up The Bonehunters but I agree with this 100%. Very rarely do I actually get attached to characters in books, but Erikson is able to give so many different characters their own personality it is crazy. I agree, but on the other hand he also gave so many different characters the same personality it is crazy.
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Jul 31, 2012 07:01
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I don't agree with that. Some characters share common traits, but most of that you could trace to geographical origin or race. There aren't two characters in the series that I would say are characterized the same way; even the dozens of Malazan marines the books followed always felt unique and distinct to me as I was reading.
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Jul 31, 2012 07:11
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The Ninth Layer posted:I don't agree with that. Some characters share common traits, but most of that you could trace to geographical origin or race. There aren't two characters in the series that I would say are characterized the same way; even the dozens of Malazan marines the books followed always felt unique and distinct to me as I was reading. I agree with you however I can see how people might lump all heavy infantry, all sappers, together..
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Jul 31, 2012 07:14
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The Ninth Layer posted:I don't agree with that. Some characters share common traits, but most of that you could trace to geographical origin or race. There aren't two characters in the series that I would say are characterized the same way; even the dozens of Malazan marines the books followed always felt unique and distinct to me as I was reading. I think the marines were pretty unique based on their one or two distinguishing traits, like Hellian, Skulldeath, Throatslitter, et. al. but later in the series the newly introduced ones (like around DoD) really didn't get a chance to form their own identities. I really liked the Malazan marines, besides the DoD/TCG philosophizing, but there were a lot of other characters that I thought were definitely superfluous. Once again mostly later in the series, like all the random Awl/Barghast/Khundryl people besides the main few, and like most of the Shake. He got it right with the Grey Helms and Grey Swords, where there are just a few main characters to pay attention to. Oh and speaking of DoD/TCG I remembered how pointless and stupid end-game Gruntle became, after being so badass before. I also understood where Setoc was coming from, but Torrent was such terrible character.
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Jul 31, 2012 09:54
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I just wanted to thank you guys for encouraging me to get through the first book. I have to admit that the first half of it was a bit of a chore. I've never started a series this large before and knew it would take a while to get rolling, but once it took off for me (a bit past its halfway point) I couldn't put it down.
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Jul 31, 2012 15:53
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Nearly every single Malazan character is both incredibly jaded and has a strong sense of duty/determination. It's easy to see why people say that they are so similar. Not that I hate the books, but the people in it are fairly similar.
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Aug 1, 2012 10:43
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bigmcgaffney posted:Oh and speaking of DoD/TCG I remembered how pointless and stupid end-game Gruntle became, after being so badass before. I also understood where Setoc was coming from, but Torrent was such terrible character. I'll probably be the first one to rag on Erikson for poor characterization and superfluous plotlines, but I think this one worked thematically. Gruntle is the avatar of one of the old 'beast' gods of war. A major theme of the last few books is that humanity can now kill far more savagely and efficiently than animals ever could; as a result, the beast gods all die very easily at the end of the novel and humans replace them as the new gods of war (embodied, I believe, in Grub). That theme was a really good one. Grub is an awful name.
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Aug 1, 2012 19:12
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:I'll probably be the first one to rag on Erikson for poor characterization and superfluous plotlines, but I think this one worked thematically. Gruntle is the avatar of one of the old 'beast' gods of war. A major theme of the last few books is that humanity can now kill far more savagely and efficiently than animals ever could; as a result, the beast gods all die very easily at the end of the novel and humans replace them as the new gods of war (embodied, I believe, in Grub). That theme was a really good one. The running theme with Fener/Trake/Wolves was good, I just didn't get Gruntle's motivation for his suicide endgame actions, besides saying "gently caress you" to Trake.
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Aug 1, 2012 22:45
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Finished Reaper's Gale last night and wont be able to get to the bookstore to get the last 3 for a while...One of the few times I actually wish I had a Kindle or something similar. RG started off SO slow, but towards the end half of the book it was astoundingly good. I know most of SE's books tend to be a slow burn like that, but it seemed a lot more pronounced this time round.
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Aug 2, 2012 03:44
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Yeah, the last 3 are gonna be like that as well. He pushes so much into the climax and flattens out the rest of the book so much in doing so. It's kinda like being strapped to a table for several hours staring at a blank ceiling and then all of a sudden the ceiling breaks off and flies away to reveal a fireworks show as you orgasm out of nowhere.
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Aug 2, 2012 13:32
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Chapter two of Forge of Darkness was posted on TOR's site. Enjoyed this one. The end actually got an "oh poo poo" out of me 
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Aug 2, 2012 18:30
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Oh Snapple! posted:Chapter two of Forge of Darkness was posted on TOR's site. Reading chapter 2 myself right now... In the actual book*. Staggered releases are really dumb. *Well, kindle e-book but still.
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Aug 2, 2012 18:33
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Oh Snapple! posted:Chapter two of Forge of Darkness was posted on TOR's site. Wow, that came out of nowhere 
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Aug 2, 2012 19:11
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Woah. Just got to the end of chapter 2 and had to put my kindle down and come here. That was... unexpected.
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Aug 2, 2012 19:18
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Is this something I should wait to read until I'm done with the actual series? Or can I read the first two chapters posted online if I'm only up to end of Reaper's Gale/beginning of Toll The Hounds?
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Aug 2, 2012 22:55
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Yeah I read books. posted:Is this something I should wait to read until I'm done with the actual series? Or can I read the first two chapters posted online if I'm only up to end of Reaper's Gale/beginning of Toll The Hounds? Wait for a second opinion, but I don't think there are any spoilers from later in the series there. It's more that you won't understand the significance of certain people unless you've read the main series. That said, just wait until you are done, honestly. Finish reading Toll the Hounds instead. It's worth it.
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Aug 2, 2012 23:02
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Yeah I read books. posted:Is this something I should wait to read until I'm done with the actual series? Or can I read the first two chapters posted online if I'm only up to end of Reaper's Gale/beginning of Toll The Hounds?
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Aug 2, 2012 23:14
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