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tofes posted:Yeah, the treegloo, portenzo, and dodocase all look good but I'm waiting for reviews before dropping 60 bucks Well, I just ordered one of these today, so I'll know how it is soon enough.
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Aug 2, 2012 05:37
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Kreeblah posted:Well, I just ordered one of these today, so I'll know how it is soon enough. I like the minimalism of the dodocase but don't like that the tablet is secured with adhesive
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Aug 2, 2012 05:43
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Zarkov Cortez posted:The http://kck.st/LA1hsC cases look nice but I too want to see other people's reviews on the products. I posted this like 10 pages back or so, and I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but it's actually really easy to make one of these yourself. It's a really fun, satisfying, and easy craft project. If you live near a small bookstore, I guarantee you could find a small hardcover the perfect size. Then you just cut the pages out, glue felt (or whatever) to the inside with some elastic loops. And then you have the added appeal of it being a real book, not just the design of a real book printed onto whatever material the kickstarter guy is using.  It actually looks a lot better in real life (photo was taken in cubicle lighting with a cell phone camera). Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Aug 2, 2012 |
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Aug 2, 2012 15:37
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Polo-Rican posted:I posted this like 10 pages back or so, and I'm not trying to toot my own horn or anything, but it's actually really easy to make one of these yourself. It's a really fun, satisfying, and easy craft project. If you live near a small bookstore, I guarantee you could find a small hardcover the perfect size. Then you just cut the pages out, glue felt (or whatever) to the inside with some elastic loops. And then you have the added appeal of it being a real book, not just the design of a real book printed onto whatever material the kickstarter guy is using. Did you try the urethane glue? If so, how did it work?
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Aug 3, 2012 01:37
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So I just got an Asus TF3000 and so far I love it. Having a keyboard dock makes it fit my use case so much better than the other tablets I've had. My only complaint so far is the tiny right shift key on the keyboard. I also love that I can essentially make it a AOSP device by disabling some settings (though I haven't felt the need to make any changes so far, despite the random purple bits in the notification menu). I'll see if it stands up to long term use, but I'm loving the crap out of it right now. As a side note, Awful Betamax works very nicely on it, but make sure to enable the "embedded YouTube" setting to improve scrolling speed.
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Aug 3, 2012 01:46
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Has anyone bought any anti-glare or protection film for there Nexus 7?
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Aug 3, 2012 02:03
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OK I wanted to give this a couple of days use before I haul off and start complaining about it. These are my initial observations.  I want to be clear when I say something is confusing: I'm not talking about myself. I'm a developer so I understand exactly how permissions and processes work. I'm talking about average users who don't really know much about how computers work because they have better things to do. I also want to be clear that this is not meant to say that iOS doesn't have problems or issues that bug me - it does, but I post about those in the iPad/iPhone threads, not here so replying with "well the iPad does XYZ too" is pointless. I hope that, in some small way, this can steer the narrative and get the nerds to stop defending lovely Google decisions so Android can be a better competitor to iOS - we all win in that case. Right now it is so trivial to best Android on tablets that I honestly believe an iPad mini at $199 would put every other tablet maker out of business. That's a dangerous position to be in. * The first unit arrived with a row of dead pixels on the display; a lot of other people had screen lifting issues. These units aren't made by Google, just by ASUS and the lack of quality control shows. So far the second unit works. * Don't you dare fail to input a Google account during setup or you will be pestered constantly and in many different locations to sign in. They should just require it. * You will be asked about restoring another tablet even though it can clearly see you've never had another tablet on your account. The options are confusing and unclear, I wasn't sure if I should leave the checkboxes checked or not. * The home screen(s) are also confusing and unclear. When setup is done, one of the first things I want to do is a) see what apps are installed and b) check out the app store (Google Play store). You will find none of that on the home screen, you have to tap the center icon on the bottom to bring up the list of apps and widgets, then drag them onto the home screen to create your own layout. I understand what they are going for here but people have enough trouble figuring out the iOS Springboard. There is zero chance most people will figure out how to customize this; they'll just think on Android it takes an extra tap to launch apps. I promise almost no one (besides nerdy folks like those of us who post on SA) will figure it out without being shown by someone else. Seriously, there aren't enough words to describe how much I hate this. The first thing I see when setup is complete should be the list of apps installed, with a clearly identifiable icon for getting more apps in the upper-left. Downloading an app should immediately take me to that app's icon so I know how to get back to it. * If I didn't already know what the Google Play store was, I would have no idea how to get apps onto the device. "Play" sounds like it's for games, or maybe an app to play music. * When checking settings you are presented with very geek/nerd information that is certainly overload and incomprehensible for average users. Battery purports to show me what apps are using the most battery but includes OS and system services. Zero chance people will know what that means. Same goes for the other metrics. Developer options by default? Fail. This sort of thing encourages people to engage in voodoo operations (see "Repair Disk Permissions" on the Mac... most people don't understand filesystems, kernel extensions, etc so this has become a magic voodoo "fix stuff" button that really does nothing. The information overload encourages people who have no clue what a process/service is, what megabytes are, etc to fiddle and think they know what they are doing) * Android still expects me to read a whole page of permissions when I attempt to download an app... As a developer I know what the options mean but for your average user? Not a chance. No wonder people have to install virus scanners on Android devices - most people don't know what the confusing jargon means and just click Yes! (IE Active-X prompt, version 2). This is one of Android's worst sins and unforgivable given everything we know about usability research and the long history of malware online (Click to install the dancing monkey? Sure!) * The UI is confusing and non-standard. Viewing app categories in the store and navigated down into a specific app? Don't hit the back-button looking icon in the upper-left, that will take you all the way back to the list of categories. You have to go look at the bottom and tap the button that looks like an Undo arrow to move back one page. Similarly, want to go home? Well you have to hit the icon that looks like an envelope (mail) to do that. In the Store, you have to know to swipe left to see categories (and generally understand that the bar up top represents the list of things you can do)... but even that works differently. In the list of Apps/Widgets, swiping left on the first page of widgets moves to the Apps tab, but swiping right just pages through the widgets. * I'm sure Google thinks having a row of changeable buttons along the bottom is awesome and flexible but it just makes using every app a chore because no two apps do things the same way. On iOS when you learn how a Table View, Navigation Controller, etc works you know how most apps work. Google should do much more to enforce standardization here. Bottom line: This is no iPad killer. If Apple comes out with an iPad mini at the $199-$249 price point they can easily mop the floor with all the Android tablets (not that they aren't doing so already). Android is still too complicated for average users, makes seemingly simple tasks hard, and suffers massively from information overload in an attempt to be "open" and "customizable". Expecting users to make security decisions == automatic fail and artificially separating the list of apps/widgets from the home screen is a cop-out because they couldn't figure out a good UI for managing it, but it makes things much worse. The kicker is that you can have your geek cred and be easy for average users; you don't have to pick one or the other. The answer is simple - have a "Power User" setting or something that turns on all the customization you want and bury it (or require signing in with developer credentials). Then nerds can fuss with it all day long but your average user isn't presented with a bunch of incomprehensible crap they can't possibly understand. Same thing with apps and security... In fact Google just announced more restrictive Play Store policies. Nerds can root then side-load as much as they want, but the default for normal users should be only Google-approved apps and much more restrictive access. For the record I think Apple sometimes errs on the side of too much restriction which is great for normal people but annoys developers and nerds who are perfectly capable of handling such things, though I admit that even though my dev account lets me load any code I want I almost never do and run just non-jailbroken app-store apps.  Baboo made me do it.
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Aug 3, 2012 02:07
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Ender.uNF posted:* Android still expects me to read a whole page of permissions when I attempt to download an app... Despite enjoying Android quite a bit I do agree with you a lot but this one is weird. Play doesn't require you to do anything other than click install. It's at the top of the screen even, above any permission requirements.
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Aug 3, 2012 02:16
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Maker Of Shoes posted:Despite enjoying Android quite a bit I do agree with you a lot but this one is weird. Play doesn't require you to do anything other than click install. It's at the top of the screen even, above any permission requirements. When you hit install,it gives you a list of permissions.
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Aug 3, 2012 02:20
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Does the Nexus 7 not have the little pop up help the first time you turn it on? The Galaxy Nexus has a little bubble pop up on the homescreen the first time saying something like "click <here> to access all your apps." Then you go in the app drawer and a thing pops up saying "click and hold an app to place it on your homescreen, look you have widgets over here." Not to say that everything is super intuitive, but that never struck me as the difficult part. In any case, "auto-add widget" is on by default for the Play store market Google, so once you do figure out how to download apps, you'll get them added just how you like.
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Aug 3, 2012 02:22
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Endless Mike posted:When you hit install,it gives you a list of permissions. Oh, it's the "Accept" button he has a problem with.
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Aug 3, 2012 02:23
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RVProfootballer posted:Does the Nexus 7 not have the little pop up help the first time you turn it on? The Galaxy Nexus has a little bubble pop up on the homescreen the first time saying something like "click <here> to access all your apps." Then you go in the app drawer and a thing pops up saying "click and hold an app to place it on your homescreen, look you have widgets over here." Not to say that everything is super intuitive, but that never struck me as the difficult part. In any case, "auto-add widget" is on by default for the Play store market Google, so once you do figure out how to download apps, you'll get them added just how you like.  
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Aug 3, 2012 02:35
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Had my Nexus 7 for a few days now. Its amazing. Since I am all Google already its especially nice to have it all wrapped up between my G Nexus phone, Nexus tablet and Google accounts I'm having a ball. Going to Chicago here in two weeks and you better believe I am going to be flexing Google Wallet. I know this goes without saying anymore, but the Kindle Fire is no contest, unless you absolutely need your Amazon prime videos on a tablet, but of course now Amazon allows that for iPad, so there you go.
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Aug 3, 2012 03:06
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Ender.uNF posted:some valid stuff Is this your first experience with Android? One thing I want to point out is that those are all issues with Android phones as well. Except most phones on the market are even worse, because they're not on Jelly Bean or Ice Cream Sandwich. Even though much of what you point out is true and definitely needs improved, Android phones are selling just fine, so I'm not sure how well your prognostications about the future of Android tablets like the N7 will hold up. Or, rather, if they're a failure I'm not sure that they will be a failure for the reasons you mention. Thermopyle fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Aug 3, 2012 |
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Aug 3, 2012 03:20
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Ender.uNF posted:. Can you use an iPad with out an Apple ID?
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Aug 3, 2012 03:24
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Doctor rear end in a top hat posted:It does. I just tested it in the emulator. I also thought the Play Store defaults to being one of those icons on the bottom of your screen when you do initial device setup. I also think the "Permissions" screen is not the best user experience, but it's better than on iPhone where any app can do anything to your system. I actually do see a ton of app reviews which are like, "why does this app require this permission? not installing until I receive an explanation!", so at least some users clearly care. It's part of the compromise between allowing any app on your store with automated systems to remove malware after the fact (Google's approach) versus manual approval of all apps (Apple).
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Aug 3, 2012 03:34
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I'm getting my Nexus 7 Tomorrow! What's the first thing I should do with it?
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Aug 3, 2012 03:43
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Maker Of Shoes posted:Oh, it's the "Accept" button he has a problem with. No. I downloaded Skype as a test. The list of permissions was so long I had to scroll. It asked for things like access to my contacts. Should I allow that? Can I disallow it but still use the app? Think about it from a regular person's perspective. There are 13 permissions requested just for this app. System Tools - What the gently caress is "Sticky Broadcast?" Does Your Accounts mean Skype can access my email account? Why the hell can any app disconnect me from WiFi? What settings does "modify system settings" entail? I dare you to fully explain exactly what Skype can and cannot do without looking at the developer documentation. I also discovered another annoying UI issue... If you remove an app from the home screen it doesn't uninstall it. I know that because as a developer I know Remove does not imply Uninstall in this context, even though most users expect it to because of Windows' Add/Remove programs. But you can't uninstall from the list of apps either that I can tell. You have to go to Settings for that. Jerk McJerkface posted:Can you use an iPad with out an Apple ID? I think you can but it should be required for the same reason as Android... Too much stuff is useless without it. Maybe I accidentally tapped and cleared that tutorial or just breezed through it without paying attention. If you've ever done usability testing you will find that 90% of all users never read dialog boxes, tutorials, or manuals. They just blindly click/tap.
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Aug 3, 2012 03:48
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Ender.uNF posted:I also discovered another annoying UI issue... If you remove an app from the home screen it doesn't uninstall it. I know that because as a developer I know Remove does not imply Uninstall in this context, even though most users expect it to because of Windows' Add/Remove programs. But you can't uninstall from the list of apps either that I can tell. You have to go to Settings for that. When you're in the App Drawer, you can drag the app from there to drop it onto the Home Screen, view information about it, or uninstall it.
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Aug 3, 2012 03:55
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Ender.uNF posted:I also discovered another annoying UI issue... If you remove an app from the home screen it doesn't uninstall it. I know that because as a developer I know Remove does not imply Uninstall in this context, even though most users expect it to because of Windows' Add/Remove programs. But you can't uninstall from the list of apps either that I can tell. You have to go to Settings for that. In my opinion this is the best thing about android. Because I use computers and android devices, it's insane to me that, in iOS, if you have an app installed you have to have it on your homescreens somewhere. This leads to every iPad user having a "junk" folder on a homescreen somewhere, which is ridiculous. Should every app really have to live on a homescreen? What about apps you use just once a month or once a year? Should those be granted equal real estate to apps you use every day? Do you have literally every single program installed on your PC as a desktop shortcut? Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Aug 3, 2012 |
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Aug 3, 2012 04:27
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Evil Robot posted:I also think the "Permissions" screen is not the best user experience, but it's better than on iPhone where any app can do anything to your system. randyest fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Aug 3, 2012 |
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Aug 3, 2012 04:51
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Polo-Rican posted:In my opinion this is the best thing about android. Because I use computers and android devices, it's insane to me that, in iOS, if you have an app installed you have to have it on your homescreens somewhere. This leads to every iPad user having a "junk" folder on a homescreen somewhere, which is ridiculous. Your post is a good opportunity to illustrate something but please bear with me as it is somewhat difficult to put into words. If you had asked me about this 4-5 years ago, I would have agreed with you. At the time I built my own PCs. I used a Windows Mobile (don't laugh) phone with a customized ROM that I further customized. I always had everything setup just so, perfectly customized to my needs. The flip side of that is the absolutely tremendous amount of time I wasted doing those things that didn't improve me personally, make any money, or otherwise perform some sort of valuable function. It took me a long time to become a more enlightened developer and let go. I realized that my customers pay me to make the hard decisions for them so they can get on with their lives. It is easy to just throw up a dialog box and ask the user what to do (as if they had a clue). It is far more difficult to make decisions because that requires you to think through all the consequences. Every choice the system offers is another opportunity for someone to get confused, make a mistake, or simply take time away from their family, job, or hobby to think about exactly what the options are and which one is best. The iOS home screen is a better design precisely because if offers less choice**. If I never use an app then the clutter encourages me to delete it and that has an automatic management of space effect where your device doesn't get filled up with useless crap that you never use. But that required thinking through the consequences and allowing users to re-download apps they have purchased, having the store show the purchased status by making the button say "Install" instead of "Free"/"Buy", etc. Not having a Purchased list was a big hole for some time that they finally fixed. Do you make compromises? Yes... if there are apps you only use once in a while you have to create a junk page or folder to stash them in, but you typically use the last page for that and ignore it.*** Same reason tapping Buy takes you out of the app, slides over to the page, and shows you exactly where the icon went. I have never once been mystified about where an app is in iOS because the Springboard takes advantage of human spatial memory and reinforces it even for seasoned users. The same thing applies to the filesystem. I don't think Apple has it quite right yet in ML/iOS, mostly due to the Contracts issue/sandboxing not having any way to cleanly share data. But one thing they have absolutely correct is that users are terrible at managing filesystems. It is simply a metaphor that doesn't work and has no place except for developers/sysadmins. How many times have secretaries tried to move Program Files or Windows to the Recycle Bin because "what is all this junk doing here?". I did IT support years ago and every single day we got calls "Help I lost my file!"... a quick find later and they had saved it in some crazy location that happened to be the current directory at the time. I simply did not believe that Android used to partition the filesystem and expect users to know where to save things, or seeing 2 GB of free space but getting out of space errors when trying to save a photo. Thankfully Google dumped the SD slot and is cleaning up that mess. **I will say that iOS could certainly use widgets and I wish Apple would add them; possibly in the Notification Center screen. I also wish Apple would add something akin to Windows 8's Contracts so apps could tell the system what they offer (e.g.: I can accept webpages) so they could show up in the Send To menus (eg: Send to Instapaper), but getting the UI correct will be tricky. Otherwise it will end up like Windows' system tray where every app on the planet wants to stick its icon down there and run all the time. ***My one nitpick here is there needs to be something in Settings that lets you rearrange the pages like you can in iTunes... one of the extremely rare activities that requires connecting an iOS device to a computer these days. Anyway I will keep using the Nexus to see if it grows on me. I also need to polish up my Java so I may end up putting out a free app just for the experience; it's been all C# and Objective-C lately. edit: Evil Robot posted:I also thought the Play Store defaults to being one of those icons on the bottom of your screen when you do initial device setup. It is, but there is no text to tell you that and the name isn't really helpful anyway. It should say "Store" if Google insists on keeping Apps and media in the same location or "App Store" otherwise. quote:I also think the "Permissions" screen is not the best user experience, but it's better than on iPhone where any app can do anything to your system. Well I don't want to re-open the walled garden debate but for the things that apps are allowed to do like access your location, iOS prompts you the first time. If I say No to the Maps application then I can freely browse the map by address, etc without actually telling Google's servers where I am at this moment. The same thing will apply to Contacts in iOS 6 (a big cock up on Apple's part that it didn't already do this). Some of the permissions should go away... there is no reason any app should be loving with my WiFi settings. I can hear the nerd rage boiling now but seriously... It just isn't that big of a deal and apps should stay out of my network settings. Put toggles on the pull-down drawer for it built-in if that's such a huge problem. If it is just something that is so absolutely necessary to please you that every grandmother and joe plumber in the world must be offered the same option, restrict it to just apps in a special "System Tools" category. Hell, restrict that category to only people who turn on the "Power User/Developer" setting... then control freaks can take the risk and get what they want but regular users are kept in a safer playground. Similarly there is no need for the take pictures/video permission... if an app is recording, let the system UI for the camera pop up (from another process not under that app's control). Then it isn't possible for the device to record without my knowledge and the security problem goes away. For SMS or phone calls, just prompt me the first time and let me say "Yes or No", with possibly a checkbox for Don't Ask Again. Then you don't have issues with malware that sends texts or calls 1-900 numbers. If some game app or PDF viewer brings up a system UI prompt "hey punch the monkey wants to dial 1-900-SEX-ME-NOW, Yes or No?" I will be contextually aware that attempting to dial is highly inappropriate at this moment in time. That at least raises far more red flags than a big long scroll list of permissions where I have no idea if the app really should be able to do that thing or not before I've even downloaded it. Simulated fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Aug 3, 2012 |
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Aug 3, 2012 04:59
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Tab8715 posted:I'm getting my Nexus 7 Tomorrow! What's the first thing I should do with it? I found dicking around with google now to be pretty satisfying and futuristic. 'google find me korean' 'google united flight 3044' 'google remind me water the lawn 4:30pm' That was all pretty cool.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:03
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Ender.uNF posted:No. I downloaded Skype as a test. The list of permissions was so long I had to scroll. It asked for things like access to my contacts. Should I allow that? Can I disallow it but still use the app? Think about it from a regular person's perspective. There are 13 permissions requested just for this app. System Tools - What the gently caress is "Sticky Broadcast?" Does Your Accounts mean Skype can access my email account? Why the hell can any app disconnect me from WiFi? What settings does "modify system settings" entail? I dare you to fully explain exactly what Skype can and cannot do without looking at the developer documentation. I do find it interesting that the permissions screen is a touch more "normal" person useful if you get the app from the Play Store though. I haven't sideloaded anything in awhile so I wasn't familiar with things you were describing. Interesting take on it though. I haven't tried really using an Android device sans Google account. Edit: tbf I do own an iPad and it really is a great device. Retina does spoil you but I just don't like the form factor or the OS. That being said there are some serious problems that annoy the poo poo out of me on my 7. The choice to put the notification bar on top being one and that it doesn't fill the screen when you drag it down. It's visually jarring. The flimsy micro USB charging port. I dislike proprietary plugs but in this case I think I'd prefer one that was robust. For first time users I think the above mentioned mini tutorials could be more helpful. ICS/JB make some assumptions that the user is familiar with Android operation. Maker Of Shoes fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Aug 3, 2012 |
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Aug 3, 2012 05:08
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Maker Of Shoes posted:Why should I? You just said most people just tap things without caring. I was downloading from the Play store or did I misunderstand what you were saying?  My main point is Google should fix it instead of taking the lazy programmer way out of making the user decide.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:13
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Ender.uNF posted:I was downloading from the Play store or did I misunderstand what you were saying? I'm not seeing this sticky broadcast thing you're talking about so it sounded like a sideloaded app permission screen (which is a touch different). I don't disagree with you on the fixing part. I enjoy the fact that I get to see what permissions something has but Google sure as hell doesn't make it clear on what exactly the app is trying to do.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:19
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What are the absolute or best E-Reader / PDFs viewers for Andriod? Paid or not.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:24
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I appreciate the rational discussion, but it seems that you're comparing two UIs built with different philosophies. Both have their strengths, but when you switch to something new, you're going to be frustrated. I know you went out of your way to try to keep iPad comparisons out of the discussion, but all your observations are made from the perspective of someone that considers iOS to be the standard for UI design. One more nitpick; I don't think the NTSC is intended to be an "iPad killer". It's a lost-leader ecosystem gateway device that is more comparable to the Kindle Fire.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:29
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You have a really low opinion of your customers don't you? It seems really obvious you're coming from iOS to android, I'm sure a dev going the other way would have a lot to say about how terrible iOS is. I agree with a few of your points, I think most people here do - market made more sense than play for example - but restricting all customisation to a developer only setting is a terrible idea - pretty much everyone I know with an android phone has customized their homescreens, installed new keyboards, added widgets & apps that turn things on & off for them. Without this level of customisation android offers no benefit over lovely feature phones. The only person I've met who was confused by their android device was one of my electrical contractors. After many years of loyal service his Nokia 6xxx poo poo the bed & his daughter had dragged him into phones 4u & made him buy an LG something. Neither she not the salesman had asked what he wanted or explained how anything worked, he didn't know there was more than 1 homescreen or that he could alter it, or that there were more "things" or that he could get more "things". Everyone else with an android phone (I don't know anyone in real life with an android tablet, I'm the only sperglord) seems to get by just fine. If you wish to develop for android the best thing you can do is use as few permissions as possible, keep the ui as clean as possible & explain why you need permissions in the app description.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:54
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Kynetx posted:Both have their strengths, but when you switch to something new, you're going to be frustrated. This is a problem though because I had an easy time getting an iOS device to function as described. No matter how you cut it Android is going to be harder to get off the ground running for someone that's never used it before. ICS/JB is better at it but it's not enough for new users. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if a 7" iOS device existed and you gave one and a Nexus 7 to someone new to either the first phone call of "how do I do [basic function]" it's going to be from the Android person.
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Aug 3, 2012 05:57
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iOS is easier to use, Android is better for customization. Use whatever you are comfortable with but each one has it's benefits. If you don't give a poo poo about your phone and want it to just work, go with iOS. If you are a slightly technically inclined individual and want customization options, go with Android. You can't criticize something for having customization options, it's just different than what you are looking for.
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Aug 3, 2012 06:28
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Shadowgate posted:If you are a slightly technically inclined individual and want customization options, go with Android. And in one fell swoop you've crippled the potential size of Android's future user base. If this is Google's stance then they are forever hosed. Google is very much capable of retaining "tweakablity" and getting Android to a point that literally anyone can use it with no issues. I hope it's soon though.
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Aug 3, 2012 06:35
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I think a pretty important element of iOS vs Android for newbies many ignore is how much you use Apple vs Google services. If the first login when you setup the device instantly gets you access to your instant messaging, emails, web bookmarks, etc without downloading anything else or inputting any settings that's huge. As someone who uses Google services heavily I found Android setup to be a lot easier and cleaner but I imagine a heavy iCloud/mobileme person would feel the same on iOS. Google's app store could use improvements, but I think both platforms have a lot of stuff people just click through to get what they want without paying attention to what it means. Hence so many bad app reviews from people just clicking madly on the wrong thing. iOS is probably simpler looking for apps on the device but the setup from any web browser on Android is very newbie friendly as well. FuzzySlippers fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Aug 3, 2012 |
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Aug 3, 2012 06:38
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Maker Of Shoes posted:I'm not seeing this sticky broadcast thing you're talking about so it sounded like a sideloaded app permission screen (which is a touch different). It's in the description under the second listing of System Tools when you install Skype (don't ask me why System Tools is listed twice). Kynetx posted:I appreciate the rational discussion, but it seems that you're comparing two UIs built with different philosophies. True, and I think I was a bit unfair on the first day because I was annoyed about the dead line on the screen. I do wonder how long they can sustain the loss-leader thing in hardware. The manufacturers can't survive on razor-thin margins and have anything left for R&D. It also makes me wary... these days I am suspicious of relying on tools or websites that have no obvious way for me to pay them because it usually means I'm not the customer, I'm the product being sold to advertisers (see Twitter fuckerage). Plus way too many apps, sites, etc have been bought out and shut down or left to die and I don't blame the developers for avoiding bankruptcy. Cakefool posted:You have a really low opinion of your customers don't you? Not really. I'm sure that most of them, if given several extra hours each day, could become perfectly proficient. They might even be capable enough to be IT people or developers. Trouble is they have careers, families, hobbies, etc. There is no room on the schedule to read manuals, install custom ROMs, etc. Not because they are incapable - they just have other priorities. Actually I guess that's what I expect technology to do for me at this point. My first kid will be born near the end of this year. I don't have time to put my RROD Xbox in the oven to reflow the solder. I fully understand how to do it and am capable. It's just too much fuckery when I could be writing a new app that let's me buy a stroller (loving expensive poo poo, that). Or I could be hanging out with my wife and soon my kid. Or I could go have a drink at Top Golf with some friends. If my software doesn't make people happy, make the difficult decisions for them, or simplify/improve their lives then why would anyone want it? (From an entirely consumer perspective) Maker Of Shoes posted:And in one fell swoop you've crippled the potential size of Android's future user base. If this is Google's stance then they are forever hosed. Google is very much capable of retaining "tweakablity" and getting Android to a point that literally anyone can use it with no issues. I hope it's soon though. This. Some of these things don't have to be terrible, it just seems like Google doesn't care or won't put the resources into solving it. I can't believe they are dumb enough to think the Permissions thing is acceptable, that's why I think it is the typical Dev thing (of which we have all been guilty at times) of pushing hard decisions onto the user and calling it "choice". Of course if Amazon has a lot of success "stealing" customers away from Google Play, expect something to give. Google won't continue doing the R&D just so Amazon can make all the money. I also expect further consolidation... if Google won't utilize Motorola's HW division, Samsung is going to end up controlling Android... in fact don't be shocked if they open their own store and fork. I think if Google got serious about Motorola they could do some great things but they are kinda stuck in the Microsoft boat of not wanting to piss off their partners; they should just say gently caress 'em and have the confidence to build those great things. Motorola is not full of idiots. Everyone seems to want in on the "Apple" game these days, even Microsoft is stabbing their hardware partners in the back. Geez... even typing that makes me laugh. In 1998, who would have thought Apple would have reinvented the mobile phone and created the tablet market*, some upstart search engine called Google would be a powerhouse in mobile, and Microsoft would be irrelevant? * All pre-iPad tablet shipments combined worldwide round out to zero; only iPad and Android are significant.
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Aug 3, 2012 06:56
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Ender.uNF posted:Of course if Amazon has a lot of success "stealing" customers away from Google Play, expect something to give. Google won't continue doing the R&D just so Amazon can make all the money. I also expect further consolidation... if Google won't utilize Motorola's HW division, Samsung is going to end up controlling Android... in fact don't be shocked if they open their own store and fork. I think if Google got serious about Motorola they could do some great things but they are kinda stuck in the Microsoft boat of not wanting to piss off their partners; they should just say gently caress 'em and have the confidence to build those great things. Motorola is not full of idiots. Everyone seems to want in on the "Apple" game these days, even Microsoft is stabbing their hardware partners in the back. This is a good post and pretty much exactly what I want out of Google at this point. While I'm impressed that Android functions fairly well on a myriad of devices it's also the single biggest problem with it. Google really needs to set up some sort of reference line of products (Nexus or whatever, it doesn't matter) and start laying down some rules about how to distribute and use Android.
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Aug 3, 2012 07:08
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What the hell would Google lose, at the current time, if they went exclusively with Motorola for hardware? I'm finding and it looks like every software company is finding out that Apple's approach works a hell of a lot better than have all these different manufactures, vendors when it comes consumer electronics.
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Aug 3, 2012 07:25
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Tab8715 posted:What the hell would Google lose, at the current time, if they went exclusively with Motorola for hardware? Market penetration. The same thing that makes developing for Android a pain in the rear end makes it easily accessible to OEM's and carrier's to sell hardware at a decreased price but retain a high profit margin.
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Aug 3, 2012 07:29
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Maker Of Shoes posted:Market penetration. The same thing that makes developing for Android a pain in the rear end makes it easily accessible to OEM's and carrier's to sell hardware at a decreased price but retain a high profit margin. Are you saying there wouldn't be enough physical devices produced? I'm not following.
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Aug 3, 2012 07:30
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Tab8715 posted:Are you saying there wouldn't be enough physical devices produced? I'm not following.
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Aug 3, 2012 07:33
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Maker Of Shoes posted:Not really but OEM's pick up Android because it's cheap. If Google starts laying down use rules Android becomes less enticing to use as an OS. Or worse yet, OEM forks of Android worse than what we've seen. That's going to chase of app developers even faster. If Google owns Motorola's HD Division - why the hell not just make finely-tuned devices? I suspect it'd suck if you were stuck on something that wasn't Motorola but in the long-run it'd be better for Google, Developers and Consumers.
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Aug 3, 2012 07:40
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