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Ryoshi posted:Which type of crazy person are you, Kennedy-assassination, 9/11, or chemtrails? I know you may think that handheld consoles don't have an absolutely, insanely huge install base but this little thing over here called "reality" disagrees with you quite a bit. The DS pretty much single-handedly redefined what the video game industry could do, and while you say "even DQ10 is on a home console" I bet if SMT4 came out for the Wii like DQ10 you'd bitch about that too. I can't for the life of me understand why you're so mad. Redefining the game industry? With a bunch of remakes of 15 year old JRPGs, new niche JRPGS with terrible production values (looking at you, Etrian Odyssey) and a couple of gimmicky games that actually did use the second screen for anything more than displaying a map or a status screen. Also I would not bitch about SMT4 coming out on the Wii, I'm too poor for the Wii U so it would be really great for that game to come out on a cheap console. Of course, I'll probably actually get a 3DS just to play SMT4 because I'm pretty sure it will be a good game regardless of being on a handheld. My point was just that flagship titles deserve to be on home consoles especially when stuff like P4 Arena and Catherine are on them.
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Aug 4, 2012 03:34
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Catalina posted:One thing I discovered about Persona 3 and 4 is that the honorifics are actually Westernized and used in a way that makes more sense to English readers. (Example: Junpei calls Yukari Yuta-tan as a nickname but in the original Japanese he calls her Yukaricchi or somesuch.) I feel this is just weird and unneeded, since I have no idea what Yuka-tan means. If they go though the "effort" of adding honorifics, something they use in Japanese and not in English, they should be used how the Japanese version used them.
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Aug 4, 2012 03:36
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xomocekc posted:I may be a jrpg fan, but I don't care about Japan or japanese culture. If they want to sell the games here they should make them for platforms people actually own. Also note I said flagship title, even DQ10 is on a home console, and FFXIII trilogy isn't on the Vita. P3 and P4 where also home console and the crappy PSP and DS jrpgs didn't dominate poo poo (with the exception of Radiant Historia). Crappy PSP and DS? Both have massive and fantastic libraries that disagree with this statement. Are you saying Radiant Historia was awesome? Mediocre, generic JRPG, with an easily breakable combat system. Fun, but nothing exceptional.
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Aug 4, 2012 03:41
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I'm pretty sure "Yuka-tan" isn't meant to mean anything since it's just a nickname Junpei calls Yukari by to annoy her - Yukaricchi was probably judged a little too Japanese for an English language audience, plus Yuka-tan has the bonus of being a pun since it's homophonous with a certain Central American geographical feature.
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Aug 4, 2012 03:43
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xomocekc posted:I can't for the life of me understand why you're so mad. Redefining the game industry? With a bunch of remakes of 15 year old JRPGs, new niche JRPGS with terrible production values (looking at you, Etrian Odyssey) and a couple of gimmicky games that actually did use the second screen for anything more than displaying a map or a status screen. No, "redefining the industry" as in "selling the most units of any video game console ever worldwide, including home consoles that you claim 'people actually own'". That's a pretty fair metric I'd say. And clearly you have no idea how enormous the DS game library is, because your examples are laughable. edit: quote:So the honorifics were themselves localized to make more sense to a userbase that's only semi-aware of Japanese grammar? That's actually kind of neat and surprisingly observant of Atlus. Thanks for bringing that up, that's kind of cool to know It's super cool - Atlus seems to know their Western fanbase better than they know themselves. What a crazy reversal from their early games. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Aug 4, 2012 |
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Aug 4, 2012 03:43
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Momomo posted:I feel this is just weird and unneeded, since I have no idea what Yuka-tan means. If they go though the "effort" of adding honorifics, something they use in Japanese and not in English, they should be used how the Japanese version used them. As it was pointed out, I'm in the "doesn't care either way camp" but I think the translators should really work on just finding an acceptable English equivalent then adapt it to the style and quirks of the character saying it. I think that sort of thing is what separates the goods from the greats when it comes to translation. I know these games are pretty much neck deep in Japanese culture and references as such but I don't think anything will be lost if Nanako is just called Nanako instead of Nanako-chan or Yosuke is just called Yosuke instead of Yosuke-senpei. Plus it doesn't take as long to say, as we all found out how silly it got when Rise kept on repeating it over and over and over and over and over again during battles. It still boggles my mind that the same woman voices Female Boss Voice 1 in Saints Row The Third.
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Aug 4, 2012 03:44
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xomocekc posted:Of course, I'll probably actually get a 3DS just to play SMT4 because I'm pretty sure it will be a good game regardless of being on a handheld. My point was just that flagship titles deserve to be on home consoles especially when stuff like P4 Arena and Catherine are on them. Only the DS outsold all those consoles other than maybe the Wii to an insane degree, especially in the market they're most concerned with (a cynic would say the only market they're concerned with). That's not even counting the PSP user base, which is pretty respectable too. That and you know what? I'm kind of over playing super-long games on a console. It's so much easier to play a JRPG by dribs and drabs on a train ride or whatever. Catalina posted:One thing I discovered about Persona 3 and 4 is that the honorifics are actually Westernized and used in a way that makes more sense to English readers. (Example: Junpei calls Yukari Yuta-tan as a nickname but in the original Japanese he calls her Yukaricchi or somesuch.) So the honorifics were themselves localized to make more sense to a userbase that's only semi-aware of Japanese grammar? That's actually kind of neat and surprisingly observant of Atlus. Thanks for bringing that up, that's kind of cool to know
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Aug 4, 2012 03:46
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Ryoshi posted:No, "redefining the industry" as in "selling the most units of any video game console ever worldwide, including home consoles that you claim 'people actually own'". That's a pretty fair metric I'd say. And clearly you have no idea how enormous the DS game library is, because your examples are laughable. Well I didn't think kid's games and shovelware were pertinent to this discussion. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 4, 2012 03:50
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xomocekc posted:Well I didn't think kid's games and shovelware were pertinent to this discussion.
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Aug 4, 2012 03:51
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Pornographic Memory posted:I'm pretty sure "Yuka-tan" isn't meant to mean anything since it's just a nickname Junpei calls Yukari by to annoy her - Yukaricchi was probably judged a little too Japanese for an English language audience, plus Yuka-tan has the bonus of being a pun since it's homophonous with a certain Central American geographical feature. Jimbot posted:As it was pointed out, I'm in the "doesn't care either way camp" but I think the translators should really work on just finding an acceptable English equivalent then adapt it to the style and quirks of the character saying it. I think that sort of thing is what separates the goods from the greats when it comes to translation. Also, I don't think a single person alive unironically calls their older brother "big bro". The only time you use bro is to make fun of slang from like 20 years ago.
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Aug 4, 2012 03:52
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xomocekc posted:Well it used to be that the defining characteristic of SMT was that it took place in post apocalyptic Tokyo teeming with demons and poo poo. Nocturne, DDS and Strange Journey are the core STM games. Persona, while really fun, panders to weaboos a lot. Devil Survivor seemed like a poor man's Persona to me, but what do I know. Apparently you don't know much because Devil Survivor and Persona are completely different types of games. Seriously the only thing they may have in common is Japan, demons, and maybe the art (I guess, its all anime whatever). Other than that one is a SRPG and the other is a straight up JRPG. You said earlier that its just a visual novel with battles. I guess you just summarized the entire SRPG genre congratulations. E: Holy poo poo I just read what you posted on this page and well I have no idea if you're trolling or not but I can assure you the DS isn't thriving off rpgs alone my man. And  calling the DS library full of shovelware. So was the PS2, you're really dumb.
The REAL Goobusters fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 4, 2012 |
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Aug 4, 2012 04:00
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Endorph posted:I only play overpriced toys meant for *ADULTS*, thank you very much. "Stupid KIDS and their stupid immature games....now what do I fuse to make the penis chariot again?"
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Aug 4, 2012 04:02
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Fungah! posted:Only the DS outsold all those consoles other than maybe the Wii to an insane degree, especially in the market they're most concerned with (a cynic would say the only market they're concerned with). That's not even counting the PSP user base, which is pretty respectable too. I agree with this sentiment a lot. These days, I much prefer handheld systems to to the standard gaming consoles. I've owned a Wii, PS3, and Xbox 360, and I've ended up putting the 360 and PS3 up for sale, simply because there just weren't enough games that interested me, especially for the cost. As a JRPG fan, I spent something like $300 on a PS3 and only used it for 2 games, Atelier Rorona, and Atelier Totori. Handheld systems are less expensive, have extensive and varied libraries, and can be played on the go or in a lot of other places, and don't require much setup. Personally, as a JRPG fan I'm glad that handhelds dominate the Japanese market. I think it's cool of Atlus USA, too. I think translations of Japanese media to English, and decisions made in localizations to be very interesting. (I.E. Persona, Phoenix Wright, Recettear...) As former weaboo who's been in recovery for a while, my first reaction was somewhat "OMG but what about the original Japanese?" but I've come to really respect Atlus and the reasoning behind their localization and translation decisions of Persona 3 and 4. The irony about learning some Japanese is that the more you learn about it, the more you understand about the intent of the words instead of exact translation, and the more forgiving you get about things not sounding "right" There was a blog that I read around 2009 that I wish I could find again that was a native Japanese speaker's reactions to the Persona 4 English translation with examples like, "the way characters called each other is different in this case and this case" (generally, last names were used a lot more) and "I really can't imagine Westernern players getting that much out of the scenes with a kotatsu as I imagine most of them don't even know what one is!"
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Aug 4, 2012 04:07
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PonchAxis posted:
Etrian Odyssey 1-3 justified the purchase and upgrades of my 3 DSs and then I discovered SMT. SJ was loving awesome. But yeah, shovelware kiddie games. Dude has to be a troll.
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Aug 4, 2012 04:38
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Honestly I prefer my RPGs on portable systems. If I'm gonna have to play a game for ~40 hours, not being tethered to a TV is a godsend. Pierce posted:Etrian Odyssey 1-3 justified the purchase and upgrades of my 3 DSs and then I discovered SMT. SJ was loving awesome. But yeah, shovelware kiddie games. Make sure you have a 3DS so you can enjoy EO4♥
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Aug 4, 2012 05:00
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"Games for kids" is about where I stop listening to any gaming argument; it's kind of like Godwin's Law to me. The NDS had so many non-kiddy games including SMT which, hey, check out the thread title, and as already stated the "shovelware" argument is horseshit when you're talking the second best-selling system of all time. You complain about DS games either under-utilizing the bottom screen or having gimmicky uses for it; I can only wonder how you feel about The World Ends with You, easily my favorite game of all time though I acknowledge it's difficult to "get." Also Catherine is awesome and the competitive scene is cool as gently caress. Japanese games revolving around Japanese culture and concepts, who would've thought. Tell us, what do you like? vanov fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Aug 4, 2012 |
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Aug 4, 2012 05:34
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TurnipFritter posted:Make sure you have a 3DS so you can enjoy EO4♥ Oh yes, everything between now and then are just holdovers! SMT4 and EO4 are going to rule. Soul Hackers is also one of my must haves.
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Aug 4, 2012 05:50
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Hold the phone soul hackers is coming to 3DS???
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Aug 4, 2012 06:04
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That's where the first SMTIV trailer is being released, in fact.
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Aug 4, 2012 06:05
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I wonder if Atlus USA will just port over the English script for the PSX version to save time lol VVV Nah. Rumor has it it was planned for release and a lot of work was completed for it but Sony of America canned the release for  unknown reasonsAt least that's what I heard a couple of years ago. ThePhenomenalBaby fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Aug 4, 2012 |
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Aug 4, 2012 06:07
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PS1 Soul Hackers came out in English?
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Aug 4, 2012 06:08
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TurnipFritter posted:Make sure you have a 3DS so you can enjoy EO4♥ I'm more than aware, and willing, for that to be an indefinite thing. That and I'm not totally enamoured with the change from Megadrive Synths for EO 4.
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Aug 4, 2012 08:21
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quote:Honorific chat Either go full-japanese, or localize this poo poo, trying to do both just looks sloppy. Probably the bigest example of this I can think of is Mitsuru, while everyone else is throwing koons and channns around Mitsuru just calls everyone she's not close with by their last name (I'm pretty sure she doesn't use a single honorific in the entire game?) More importantly, was it is only these two games? I don't exactly remember them offhand, but do the psp version of persona 2/the DS games do this? Because those also take place in japan, right? Did they finally realize how dumb this is? darealkooky fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Aug 4, 2012 |
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Aug 4, 2012 09:02
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darealkooky posted:What I wanna know is, if they're so determined to do this stuff why don't they go full-blow and have nanako say "welcome home oni-chan!" or some poo poo, I mean, "welcome home, big-bro" just misses so much DEEP MEANING, right? B-b-b-b-but Senpai! Honestly its fine, and its brings some charm to the Persona series. I eat that poo poo up, its just good light hearted fun I guess.
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Aug 4, 2012 10:17
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darealkooky posted:What I wanna know is, if they're so determined to do this stuff why don't they go full-blow and have nanako say "welcome home oni-chan!" or some poo poo, I mean, "welcome home, big-bro" just misses so much DEEP MEANING, right? Nah, it's just that that one phrase is roughly 1/3rd of her dialog so it'd get really loving annoying if it was onii-chan onii-chan onni-chan all day. ...as opposed to only regular amounts of annoying as Big Bro, but hey, lesser of two evils here.
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Aug 4, 2012 11:39
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darealkooky posted:Either go full-japanese, or localize this poo poo, trying to do both just looks sloppy. Probably the bigest example of this I can think of is Mitsuru, while everyone else is throwing koons and channns around Mitsuru just calls everyone she's not close with by their last name (I'm pretty sure she doesn't use a single honorific in the entire game?) The reason Mitsuru doesn't use any of that is 'cause she's the HBIC. You can drop the -sans and stuff with people of "lower status," and since she's richer than god, student council president, and a senior, that means just about everyone at their school. Congrats on noticing that yet failing to grasp the implications of it.
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Aug 4, 2012 12:20
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It is important to keep the honorifics, otherwise you will miss out on many of the complex relationship nuances when the nakama discuss their keikaku.  (note: keikaku means plan)
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Aug 4, 2012 12:24
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I feel like the only person in the world who doesn't really give a poo poo either way. The 'nuances' of honorifics can be portrayed through just plain ol' dialogue, it just requires careful writing. That said, keeping the honorifics really doesn't bug me at all. It's just a thing. Also keikaku means plan will never get old to me.
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Aug 4, 2012 15:30
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Endorph posted:I feel like the only person in the world who doesn't really give a poo poo either way. The 'nuances' of honorifics can be portrayed through just plain ol' dialogue, it just requires careful writing. That said, keeping the honorifics really doesn't bug me at all. It's just a thing. Nope, I'm with you one hundred percent. They sound a little goofy, but whatever, it's nothing worth getting uptight about. Anyone have the image? I forgot to save it when it was still A Thing and it always owns
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Aug 4, 2012 15:38
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Fungah! posted:Nope, I'm with you one hundred percent. They sound a little goofy, but whatever, it's nothing worth getting uptight about. Here you are! http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/037/923/keikaku.jpg I had a friend who I introduced to Persona 4, who had never seen anime or played anything that honorifics before, and he was fine with it. He even called me Catalina-chan.  I'm somewhat sad that there's really not a good English equivalent for onii-chan. It's a very cute way of saying big brother, similar to the English word Daddy for Dad.
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Aug 4, 2012 19:00
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Endorph posted:I feel like the only person in the world who doesn't really give a poo poo either way. The 'nuances' of honorifics can be portrayed through just plain ol' dialogue, it just requires careful writing. That said, keeping the honorifics really doesn't bug me at all. It's just a thing. I'm usually like this, but I'm almost to the point where people bitching about honorifics is worse than people wanting them kept in. Yes yes, careful English translation, you all prefer localizations, you're so superior to us plebs that just want to play a game. I guess it's just because I've never seen an argument for dropping them that wasn't dripping with condescension for anyone that disagreed/didn't care. But that's not the honorifics fault. ...So, how about that SMTIV? I'm looking forward to it! I loved SJ, so I'm hoping this one is even better. Every dungeon like Sector E! Every single one!
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Aug 4, 2012 20:52
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 He's so dreamy. 
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Aug 4, 2012 21:07
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I think he'd look better without the cape, it makes him look like an rear end in a top hat. Still though, his and Mitsuru's inclusion in that game actually make me interested in it. Kind of pisses me off, actually.
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Aug 4, 2012 21:24
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vanov posted:Also Catherine is awesome and the competitive scene is cool as gently caress. Wait. There's a competitive scene for Catherine? loving awesome. I really need to play through that again.
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Aug 4, 2012 21:28
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Personally, I'm surprised they left in the mention of kotatsu. They really should have just changed them to "Japanese table". Also, change Yosuke's name to Chris, because who the gently caress is named Yosuke?
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Aug 4, 2012 21:40
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FINALmasa posted:Personally, I'm surprised they left in the mention of kotatsu. They really should have just changed them to "Japanese table". Also, change Yosuke's name to Chris, because who the gently caress is named Yosuke? Why would the Japanese call it a "Japanese Table?" Better translation would be "Warmning Table" or something. edit: I got wooshed
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Aug 4, 2012 21:57
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I think it's pretty stupid that they mix and match English and Japanese honorifics so you get things like "Yosuke-kun did you hear what Ms. Kashiwagi said about Rise-chan?"
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Aug 4, 2012 22:53
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Beyond any translation issues, I don't like it because it really hurts the voice acting. The actors frequently stumble over the words and it sounds goofy more often than not.
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Aug 4, 2012 23:24
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Mixing and matching actually makes more sense to me. English has stuff like 'Mrs.' and 'Mr.' so why would you not use them when it's applicable and gets the point across well enough. It's a decent enough middle road to the two usual trains of thought on this kind of thing.
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Aug 4, 2012 23:30
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AlternateNu posted:Wait. There's a competitive scene for Catherine? loving awesome. I really need to play through that again. Youtube it, it will break your mind.
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Aug 5, 2012 03:13
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