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Toraen posted:She had to escort her mother to the afterlife, as no psychopomp came for her. I'm not sure that's what happened, given what we know about Surma's eternal soul.
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Aug 3, 2012 21:25
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Cat Mattress posted:Mallt-y-Nos is a crone, not an old man. It's kind of hard to tell if you don't know the mythology behind the name.
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Aug 3, 2012 21:30
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Male Man posted:I'm not sure that's what happened, given what we know about Surma's eternal soul. But Surma is dead now. The soul may go on, but Annie appears to have none of her mother's memories. Also, sorry Ysgarron. I convinced him to start reading and he got three hours of sleep last night. He said it didn't pick up until Chapter 25 - Skywatcher and the Angel. That's when Slidell moves from the somewhat sillier stuff (laser cows) to the slightly more serious and deeper things (Kat being an angel and becoming a religious figure for the robots.)
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Aug 3, 2012 23:13
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KSAF Staff Report posted:Also, sorry Ysgarron. I convinced him to start reading and he got three hours of sleep last night. He said it didn't pick up until Chapter 25 - Skywatcher and the Angel. That's when Slidell moves from the somewhat sillier stuff (laser cows) to the slightly more serious and deeper things (Kat being an angel and becoming a religious figure for the robots.) That's an awfully long time to take to get into it. Skywatcher was a great chapter, but it's baffling that he wasn't hooked before that. Then again, I'm having trouble getting my sister to move on past chapter 3.
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Aug 4, 2012 02:04
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I can see why the earliest chapters might put someone off, as unfortunate as it might be. The excuse that "it gets better later!" generally isn't much help either.
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Aug 4, 2012 02:11
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Most people I've gotten to read GC told me that it picked up and really got them into it either around Broken Glass and Other Things or The Fangs of Summertime. Fangs of Summertime is also where it really picked up for me when I read it from the beginning, both because of Coyote and because the art quality really starts to take off and become something special.
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Aug 4, 2012 02:47
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Cowcaster posted:I can see why the earliest chapters might put someone off, as unfortunate as it might be. The excuse that "it gets better later!" generally isn't much help either. My strategy is usually to strike preemptively and say, "Look at this comic that is totally good!"
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Aug 4, 2012 04:14
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Toraen posted:She had to escort her mother to the afterlife, as no psychopomp came for her. The nature of the relationship of the two could mean that either Annie is her mother's psychopomp, or her mother did not really go to the afterlife at all, and Annie guided her (unconsciously and probably unknowingly) to her rightful place in Annie herself.
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Aug 4, 2012 04:20
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So, a couple of things. This does put new light on "man's attempt to become a god." If the court is aware of the effect that the human intellect has on mundane things, then perhaps the purpose of Gunnerkrigg Court is to harness and exploit this deity-creating aspect of human intellect. Zenzirouj posted:Or if they figured out that belief = power (assuming Coyote is correct in this explanation) they're trying really hard to believe that they're powerful, or at least create the idea of that power, but that means you have to know that you're not powerful but know that if you and enough people believe that you are then um argh Or that, basically. Another thing. Does this quirk of intellect only apply to humans, or does it apply to all things with a human-like intellect? If that's the case, then it seems Robot's creepy worship and evangelizing is doing more than weirding out Shadow. It could very well be transforming Kat into an angel of life and death. A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Aug 4, 2012 |
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Aug 4, 2012 07:28
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Yeah, this had me thinking about Kat and the robots as well. That also leads to questions about the robot's sentience and "humanity", if their belief can have the same type of effect on the world as a human's.
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Aug 4, 2012 08:48
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A big flaming stink posted:Another thing. Does this quirk of intellect only apply to humans, or does it apply to all things with a human-like intellect? All it takes is Robot to 'inject' an idea into a group of robots, and that idea will spread to the rest of the population in a heartbeat. Whether or not the robots will actually believe him is still determined by their limited free will, but the idea will be out there with terrifying speed. Then again, if the Court noticed such ideas/rumors circulating among the robots, they could just issue edicts to the robots to block the spread of the idea, like some form of memetic warfare.
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Aug 4, 2012 08:53
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Come on now, it's just a variant on the old Gaiman/Pratchett storytelling device, belief shapes reality. The gods draw their power from humanity. There's hardly any influence by Peter Watts. For a start, everyone isn't going to die.
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Aug 4, 2012 09:07
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Tupperwarez posted:That's a good point. If the robots are capable of 'psychically' influencing the ether like that, it's more than a little worrying because unlike humans, they can communicate at the speed of light/electricity. Beyond the obvious "Memes aren't real, ideas don't work that way", there is the stark reality it doesn't seem to matter who the hell believes something. Clearly less of the population as a whole believes in an actual factual Coyote than did long ago. Guy can still call down the moon and grant vast metaphysical power to others. Lack of belief hasn't hurt him in the slightest that we can see. As was said, the man dying looking at the coyote doesn't spread his idea to anyone else, but it still has power beyond his death. This isn't some "The gods need belief to continue to exist or have power" thing. It's something else.
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Aug 4, 2012 09:19
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So it's like Douglas Adam's Long Dark Teatime, the gods were formed by belief, but don't need it to survive. Their powers persist. Or, one of these gods stumbled upon an even greater power. Coyote just got lucky 
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Aug 4, 2012 09:26
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If the latest pages are anything to go by, it really puts this into perspective. I especially like the link with the "Just a stone" and "just a ghost" http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=526 It's shown that Mort doesn't cease to exist later, so there's probably more to it. Monday can't come fast enough! 
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Aug 4, 2012 14:31
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Boogaleeboo posted:Clearly less of the population as a whole believes in an actual factual Coyote than did long ago. Guy can still call down the moon and grant vast metaphysical power to others. Lack of belief hasn't hurt him in the slightest that we can see. I took what he's said so far less as people needing to believe in a magical dog deity, and more that he gets his power from human's uncertainty about the natural systems they are part of. Of course, we'll have to wait until Monday to see.
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Aug 4, 2012 19:45
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Coyote is basically a wacked version of Dr Manhattan.
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Aug 4, 2012 19:59
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FronzelNeekburm posted:My strategy is usually to strike preemptively and say, "Look at this comic that is totally good!" Your link made me go back and read for an hour but now all I can think is http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=875
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Aug 5, 2012 00:51
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Phobophilia posted:Come on now, it's just a variant on the old Gaiman/Pratchett storytelling device, belief shapes reality. The gods draw their power from humanity. There's hardly any influence by Peter Watts. Totally, just the line about human creativity being a disease really reminded me of Blindsight's premise about consciousness.
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Aug 5, 2012 05:28
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And we finally have a solid answer on what happens to people after they die. This has a lot of implications to think about now. I shall do that in the morning I think.
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Aug 6, 2012 08:02
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Weird alt text at the bottom.
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Aug 6, 2012 08:08
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Psalmanazar posted:Weird alt text at the bottom. Its based on the text from where the flashback picture is from http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=358 Desperate Character fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Aug 6, 2012 |
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Aug 6, 2012 08:08
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Matlock Birthmark posted:And we finally have a solid answer on what happens to people after they die. This has a lot of implications to think about now. I shall do that in the morning I think. They're etherical gasoline!
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Aug 6, 2012 08:23
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Coylent Green is made out of people!
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Aug 6, 2012 08:26
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So, correct me if I am wrong, but does this mean the Ether is essentially the Immaterium from Warhammer 40k? The Ether is not dependent upon the souls of the dead to exist, but they have an effect on it, like currents in the ocean. When enough souls who believe the same concept pass on, they create and fuel deities like Coyote et al. Or am I way off base? I know the concept of godly power stemming from belief is hardly a new one, but I love the idea so much I don't mind a bit. Just Offscreen fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Aug 6, 2012 |
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Aug 6, 2012 08:50
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So, I wonder what the implications of this are for Zimmy. Seems entirely possible that all those Nobodies she tends to run into in her world could actually be some sort of remnants of the dead. After all, she doesn't quite go to the "normal" ether, but something else that seems tied to it. And for Jeanne... It's kind of something we'd already guessed, but I suppose this must mean that the old Court found some way to prevent her from going to the ether when she died. So she's stuck, but somehow she still has power in both worlds. Then there's Kat, the robot-bird-angel... Perhaps that came from the old golem when it "died", if we're going with the assumption that any creatures with intelligence and creativity still have their minds influence the ether. Unless there have been any other robot deaths on top of that, but I don't recall any. As for Annie's mom, I guess we need to know more about the circumstances of her death and Annie escorting her before we can really infer what this means. Holy poo poo, I love this comic, and this has been an incredible chapter already.
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Aug 6, 2012 11:57
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MoonwalkInvincible posted:So, I wonder what the implications of this are for Zimmy. Seems entirely possible that all those Nobodies she tends to run into in her world could actually be some sort of remnants of the dead. After all, she doesn't quite go to the "normal" ether, but something else that seems tied to it. Well she saw a Jack nobody last chapter, and as far as we know, Jack's alive and well.
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Aug 6, 2012 12:19
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I think everyone's forgetting the main thing here. The return of Moddey Dhoo.
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Aug 6, 2012 12:20
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Migishu posted:I think everyone's forgetting the main thing here. Literally a flashback to a flashback dude 
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Aug 6, 2012 12:49
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Tollymain posted:Literally a flashback to a flashback dude I like to believe it's a lead in to an upcoming Moddey Dhoo chapter.
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Aug 6, 2012 13:04
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There is no way the whole robot-angel thing is not leading to some kind of showdown/crisis thing between Kat and Annie. Or something. I dunno.
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Aug 6, 2012 13:35
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The link to the flashback reminded me that Tom used "aether" at least once before but seems to exclusively use "ether" now.
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Aug 6, 2012 15:51
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Matlock Birthmark posted:And we finally have a solid answer on what happens to people after they die. This has a lot of implications to think about now. I shall do that in the morning I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we not already know this? Or was it just very strongly hinted at?
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Aug 6, 2012 16:20
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Rasamune posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we not already know this? Or was it just very strongly hinted at? Very strongly hinted at yes. But I don't think anyone has ever come out and said that dead souls were reabsorbed into the ether.
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Aug 6, 2012 16:26
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You know, I wasn't thrilled that Tom seemed to be going the 'belief is power' route, but I'm surprisingly okay with this. Having them basically be the psychic residue of the dead is actually pretty cool, I was worried this was going to be some 'everybody clap for Tinkerbell' kind of thing.
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Aug 6, 2012 19:12
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Migishu posted:I like to believe it's a lead in to an upcoming Moddey Dhoo chapter. Oh my god yes 
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Aug 6, 2012 22:02
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Moddey Dhoo is always telling everyone that he was the inspiration for The Hound Of The Baskervilles. So much that everyone is sick of hearing it. I had to cut that out of the chapter, sadly.
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Aug 6, 2012 22:26
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Tea-san posted:Moddey Dhoo is always telling everyone that he was the inspiration for The Hound Of The Baskervilles. So much that everyone is sick of hearing it. You are a swine, sir, and for that you shall PAY! By which, I mean, once I have a house and all that poo poo, I shall PAY YOU for prints to hang on my wall. That's how the whole vengeance thing works, right?
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Aug 6, 2012 22:55
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Tea-san posted:Moddey Dhoo is always telling everyone that he was the inspiration for The Hound Of The Baskervilles. So much that everyone is sick of hearing it. Speaking of which, now I remember why I thought we already knew about the whole ether thing!
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Aug 6, 2012 23:35
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I'm just going to  that update. Is that ok?
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Aug 7, 2012 00:14
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