Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

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Bank: Feb 20, 2004

Here's my new bond:

Can't get any closer than that

I have another question now..as I was ripping out the old wire, I got all the way to the breaker box, but can't get the very last bits of the old copper out:

This is the last piece of copper, and it's inside that conduit. It goes down to the breakers, and whichever way I pull, it won't come out. I don't have access behind the meter, so I don't know if there's a nut holding it in place or what, but I cut it out of the way and capped the conduit with some tape in the mean time (I plan on re-using the conduit for grounding the telecom box).

Is there anything I can do, aside from calling up the local electric company to pull the meter for 15 minutes to pull the old ground out? I've stuck fish tape through the conduit so there isn't anything "stuck" inside, the copper is just too stiff I suppose..

# ? Aug 4, 2012 00:03

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# ? May 8, 2024 20:17

dwoloz: Oct 20, 2004; Uh uh fool, step back

I have really old ceiling electrical boxes that have small knockouts (3/8 maybe? don't know) that used to have knob and tube connected but now have NM. I was hoping to put plastic push in romex connectors but have found they aren't made in sizes smaller than 1/2"

What are my options here?

# ? Aug 4, 2012 04:13

Nemico: Sep 23, 2006

dwoloz posted:

I have really old ceiling electrical boxes that have small knockouts (3/8 maybe? don't know) that used to have knob and tube connected but now have NM. I was hoping to put plastic push in romex connectors but have found they aren't made in sizes smaller than 1/2"

What are my options here?

Besides the obvious (make the holes bigger with a step-bit or replacing the boxes), you could try some Iberville 4040s or some 3/8" 2-screw romex connectors. I'm not 100% sure if they'd work, but they cost pennies each, and if you have some more wire to run, you can just use them in proper 1/2" KOs later.

# ? Aug 4, 2012 05:26

PainterofCrap: Oct 17, 2002; hey bebe

kid sinister posted:

Lead... mains? Are there a lot of in Philly?

Mostly house mains, not street mains. Even so:

# ? Aug 4, 2012 06:17

victoryismine: May 28, 2005

Is it possible for a wiring error to electrify my whole kitchen? Sometimes when I have appliances turned on and I touch the counter of my kitchen, I get zapped. Not sure if it's static electricity (feels like more)...

I think the counter is stainless steel. I am in Hong Kong, the land of shoddy workmanship. I just don't want to get electrocuted.

# ? Aug 4, 2012 06:39

Hadlock: Nov 9, 2004

Hadlock posted:

My buddy is living aboard his 31' fiberglass sailboat currently. We're getting ready to rewire the 120v system. I'm looking for any advice or suggestions on how to do this. This is a very crude MS paint diagram of what we hope to do.

Also of note, the boat may end up in a dock with 50hz, 240v power, if that makes any difference. Also, the 120v and 12v systems are completely isolated from one another.

This is the layout. The [blue] is the existing 30amp plug (looks like this). There's a sorry looking 30amp breaker box with two 15a breakers (mounted within 6" of a propane tank, but above the level of the "drain" that vents outside the boat). The first lead goes to galley/kitchen towards the rear, and the second outlet is in the head/bathroom, and AFAIK, doesn't have a GFCI(?) thing.

Since he works from "home", and the boat isn't really designed to be heated/cooled (it's designed to be sailed in the Bahamas, where it's 72F year-round), he runs a 5.5A 5500BTU apartment cooler in the summer pretty much continuously off the galley outlet, and in the winter runs an 8amp ceramic space heater continuously in the winter off the head/bathroom outlet. Also, he'd probably want to be able to power a 800w microwave on occasion, plus whatever 12v fridge system he ends up installing (2amps?).

We're looking at replacing it with the [red] diagram. A 50 amp socket, new circuit breakers, in addition to the galley and bathroom outlets, we want to add a third outlet on one side, for his laptops (3.5amp each), etc. On the other side we want to add a plug by the chart table, and then another leading forward to the v berth/forward cabin.

Finally, this is sitting in salt water, if that makes any difference. The existing 120v infrastructure survived 35 years, so I'm not too worried about it, but whatever was in there might have been "marine grade", or whatever the nearest equivalent is. I'm thinking hospital quality plugs.

Any thoughts on this? We're getting ready to do this on Monday.

# ? Aug 4, 2012 10:47

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

victoryismine posted:

Is it possible for a wiring error to electrify my whole kitchen? Sometimes when I have appliances turned on and I touch the counter of my kitchen, I get zapped. Not sure if it's static electricity (feels like more)...

I think the counter is stainless steel. I am in Hong Kong, the land of shoddy workmanship. I just don't want to get electrocuted.

Yes, it is possible. Easy way to tell: were you touching anything else at the time? If not, and if you got shocked once and only once, it was probably just static electricity. If it's energized, you can use a meter to measure the voltage between the counter and whatever else it is you were touching; electric shocks require you to be touching a hot circuit and a grounded circuit simultaneously; one or the other by itself will not be noticeable. So if, say, your toaster oven shorted out and energized the counter, you might get a shock when leaning on the counter and touching the grounded chassis of your coffee pot. Etc. Everything that's exposed is *supposed* to be solidly grounded so that if it goes get energized, it will create a short circuit and trip the circuit breaker. Dunno how diligent Hong Kong electricians are about grounds, though...

Does Hong Kong require GFCI outlets or isolation transformers or anything else like that in kitchens?

grover fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Aug 4, 2012

# ? Aug 4, 2012 15:02

Elder Postsman: Aug 30, 2000; i used hot bot to search for "teens"

I've got a ceiling fan that I want to install in my living room. My house was built in 1908, but the whole house was rewired in 2010 just before I bought it, so I wasn't expecting any issues - pull out the old plastic box, put in a metal one, probably gonna need one of those braces, put up ceiling fan, done.

When I took off the old light fixture, I did find a plastic box:

...But it's one of these plastic boxes:

It is mounted directly to a stud, and the box says it's rated for fans up to 35 pounds, but everything I've ever read or been told says I need to be using a metal box. Can I just use this box as-is, or should I replace it with an actual metal fan box?

# ? Aug 4, 2012 16:21

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

dur posted:

It is mounted directly to a stud, and the box says it's rated for fans up to 35 pounds, but everything I've ever read or been told says I need to be using a metal box. Can I just use this box as-is, or should I replace it with an actual metal fan box?

So long as your fan weighs less than 35lbs, that box is just fine. While I'd still recommend metal if you were putting it in new, comparable (35lb rated) metal boxes you get these days are thin stamped sheet metal and not really any stronger than a good plastic box. You definitely would NOT want to use a light-duty plastic box with a fan, which is probably what you've heard the most about.

Quite simply, manufacturers cost-engineer this stuff to be strong enough, but *just* strong enough so they can save a few cents on the cost of each box, and contractors will go as cheaply as possible... but for the rest of us, compared to the cost of a ceiling fan and the effort involved, it's worth overengineering the loving thing for a good margin of safety, and spending a buck or two more to install a 50 or 100lb rated box for a 15lb fan.

grover fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 4, 2012

# ? Aug 4, 2012 16:25

insta: Jan 28, 2009

+1, I accidentally yanked a ceiling fan out of the ceiling by tugging on the fan and light pullchains at the same time. At the other end of the fan was the remnants of an old plastic box. It doesn't take much force for a 30lb fan to exceed the weight capacity of those boxes. I think they're better suited for chandeliers or something that doesn't require motion and interaction.

# ? Aug 4, 2012 16:51

Elder Postsman: Aug 30, 2000; i used hot bot to search for "teens"

I got the numbers messed up. The box itself is rated for 70 pounds ( http://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Ceiling-Fixture-Boxes-Round-New-Work/Pass-and-Seymour/S120JFAN/product.aspx?zpid=532074 ); the ceiling fan wanted one rated for 35. I don't have to worry about pullchains or anything - the fan works by remote. (Which I'm not entirely happy with, but I can deal with it.)

Anyway, installed. Thanks for the help, guys.

# ? Aug 4, 2012 17:43

Voodoo: Jun 3, 2003; m2sbr what

Can I replace a single bulb ceiling light (hallway) with a double bulb light without any problems? Just tie the black/white/ground properly and I should be good to go correct?

# ? Aug 5, 2012 03:13

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

Voodoo posted:

Can I replace a single bulb ceiling light (hallway) with a double bulb light without any problems? Just tie the black/white/ground properly and I should be good to go correct?

Generally speaking, yes. You could have issues if the circuit is on the cusp of being overloaded, but I really doubt you'd have that issue with one double-bulb fixture, especially now that everyone uses CFLs.

# ? Aug 5, 2012 03:20

daslog: Dec 10, 2008; #essereFerrari

I'm hoping some eletrical goons can give me some advice here.

Here is a picture of my Pushmatic main panel. I hate it.

I'm perfectly capable of wiring in new circuits, but I really want this thing out and a new one put in, and that's way above what I can do safely. Can someone give me a ballpark of how much I should expect to pay to have it switched out? Is this something I should have done ages ago.

Note: I believe we have two wire service from the power company.

# ? Aug 5, 2012 13:03

dyne: May 9, 2003; [blank]

Ah, here's another question regarding service panels. I plan on upgrading my overhead service to 200amp service this week, hopefully tomorrow. I'm able to do all my own work and everything is going to be on the level.

story:
I just bought a house in western NY, and we have a 100amp federal pacific stab-lok panel. I knew about the hazards prior to buying the house and intended on changing it out in a couple months, but my home owners insurance is requiring me to do it asap. I rewired the interior of my last house but this will be the first time working with the service/panel.

We also have the meter inside our basement, and the power company is requiring that to be moved outside, so I'm just going to upgrade the service to 200a. I've already spoken with the inspector and power company, who is hopefully going to come spot for the meter location and do the disconnect tomorrow.

I have a bunch of smallish detail questions:
1. We have overhead service. Should I go with SER or THWN in conduit? I have to make a couple 90 degree bends and it seems like THWN in conduit would be much easier to work with, so I was thinking I'd go with that.

2. Do I have to put the antioxidant goop on copper wire connections as well as aluminum?

3. The current connections to the overhead triplex use one metal clamping device device per wire, and then they're each wrapped with a cloth looking tape that's pretty well beat. Is there a special tape to insulate these connections?

4. Grounding: I was instructed by the inspector to ground the panel with 1 grounding rod and 1 connection within 5' of the water main with #4 grounding wire.
Can I bury the grounding rod a few inches so it's not visible?
Can I just drill a small hole through my brick house and run the ground wire through, or does it need to go through the wall in conduit?
Should I get stranded grounding wire or solid?

5. Any other tips?

Thanks

# ? Aug 5, 2012 15:02

babyeatingpsychopath: Oct 28, 2000; Forum Veteran

dyne posted:

I have a bunch of smallish detail questions:
1. We have overhead service. Should I go with SER or THWN in conduit? I have to make a couple 90 degree bends and it seems like THWN in conduit would be much easier to work with, so I was thinking I'd go with that.

I'd do THHN/THWN in conduit unless you already have the SER. I'm not sure how your meter can is mounted, but when I install an overhead service, it's just a piece of 2" or 2.5" rigid pipe with a weather head on top. That goes straight down into the hub on the top of the meter. Wire in the pipe = win.

quote:

2. Do I have to put the antioxidant goop on copper wire connections as well as aluminum?

Put it on everything. It can't hurt. If you have a torque wrench, use it on your mains. It's easy to strip out aluminum lugs on aluminum wire. The torque specs are on a sticker inside the panel.

quote:

3. The current connections to the overhead triplex use one metal clamping device device per wire, and then they're each wrapped with a cloth looking tape that's pretty well beat. Is there a special tape to insulate these connections?

Split bolts are the most likely "metal clamping device." We wrap ours with two layers of Scotch 130C linerless rubber tape, two layers of Scotch Super 33+, then two layers of Scotch 1700C. I don't think we use the cloth tape on low-voltage splices.

quote:

4. Grounding: I was instructed by the inspector to ground the panel with 1 grounding rod and 1 connection within 5' of the water main with #4 grounding wire.
Can I bury the grounding rod a few inches so it's not visible?
Can I just drill a small hole through my brick house and run the ground wire through, or does it need to go through the wall in conduit?
Should I get stranded grounding wire or solid?

We have to have two ground rods here, with a trench between them, so we just drive our rods in the bottom of the trench. It's perfectly OK to have your ground rod totally buried. Use bare, solid wire. If you're worried about unsavory types stealing that, put it in PVC conduit. Metal conduit has to be bonded at both ends if it's got a grounding electrode conductor in it. For the wire going into the house, a hole in the brick is OK. Use a cold water clamp and clamp it as close as practical to where the water pipe comes out of the ground.

quote:

5. Any other tips?

Thanks

Ask to see the spec book for meters when the service guy shows up. It'll tell you the mounting height and obstruction clearances required. Our local utility company calls theirs the "blue book" and it's about four pages long. The mounting heights might seem stupid, but the utility wants them that high for a reason. The old revision said to mount the box 6' to the bottom of the meter. The new revision says 5'4" to the center of the meter. That puts the bottom of the meter can about waist level for most people. It's so they can read the meters easily from a truck in the street with some binoculars.

# ? Aug 5, 2012 17:03

dwoloz: Oct 20, 2004; Uh uh fool, step back

daslog posted:

I'm hoping some eletrical goons can give me some advice here.

Here is a picture of my Pushmatic main panel. I hate it.

I'm perfectly capable of wiring in new circuits, but I really want this thing out and a new one put in, and that's way above what I can do safely. Can someone give me a ballpark of how much I should expect to pay to have it switched out? Is this something I should have done ages ago.

Note: I believe we have two wire service from the power company.

I paid $700 a few years ago to have my Zinsco (fire waiting to happen) panel switched out for a new one

If you have two wire you can think about upgrading to three wire but will have to talk to the power company. They might charge you to run the new service from the pole or they might do it for free. You would have to get the new panel inspected and green tagged from the city and you would have to run new entrance wire

# ? Aug 5, 2012 17:28

Sapper: Mar 8, 2003; Dinosaur Gum

Alright, electrician goons, got a question for you. I recently bought a house that had a FPE main breaker and one of the three subpanels was FPE as well. 200 amp service, main breaker was in a small stand alone box, then the 3/0(neutral is 2/0) came out of it over to another box, where the was a parasite splice with a 2" section of insulation removed in the wires, copper clamps attached with some 4ga clamped on, run to a separate 100 amp breaker, which then fed to a subpanel in the other basement. The 3/0 continued on through 3" conduit to the other FPE panel.

So what I did was replace the whole mess with a 32 slot Square-D 200 amp main panel, put the 100 amp box on a 100 amp breaker, and put in another 100amp breaker to feed the other FPE box. Now here's my question: 3/0 will not fit in a 100amp breaker. So instead, rather than pull that whole long run of 3/0 out, I ran 2ga from the breaker, then cut the 3/0 off below the stripped splice, and clamped the 2ga to it. Wrapped it with one layer of electrical tape, sticky-side out, about 6 layers of unvulcanized rubber splice tape, then damned near a whole roll of electrical tape each. Is that okay, or should I pull that whole godawful run of 3/0 and replace it? Obviously overengineered amperage wise, but I'm concerned about meeting code.

And yes, before I brought the circuit live, I replaced that other FPE box with a Square-D load center. Still have 2 Bulldog Pushmatic panels I want to replace, but the fire hazards were my primary concern. Couldn't find anything in the NFPA 70 that really addressed the splice. Everything is in boxes and conduit, btw.

I originally post this in GBS, and someone pointed me here. Man, I haven't been in DIY since they moved it. Glad it picked back up.

# ? Aug 5, 2012 17:49

dyne: May 9, 2003; [blank]

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

advice

Thanks for the advice, I figured THWN in conduit was the way to go. I presume you have to glue the joints for PVC conduit?

The connectors I saw when I was up on the ladder were not those split bolt connectors. The connector is 2 squarish plates with a bolt in the center and the two wires on either side of the bolt, clamped by the plates. I'd get a picture but it's raining pretty hard outside.

Regarding the ground wire - the ones I've seen attached to pipe have been several lowish gauge bare copper wires twisted together. Is that what I'm looking for, or do you mean like a single solid wire?

# ? Aug 5, 2012 20:20

dwoloz: Oct 20, 2004; Uh uh fool, step back

What do you guys use as a nail plate/guard for old studs that measure 2" instead of 1.5"

# ? Aug 8, 2012 06:28

PainterofCrap: Oct 17, 2002; hey bebe

That's a good one...2 or 3, angled?

# ? Aug 8, 2012 21:26

Bad Munki: Nov 4, 2008; We're all mad here.

I recently wall-mounted my tv. I'd like to put in a couple plates so I can run power/hdmi through the wall, since I don't want just a hole in the wall behind it with the cables fished through. The hdmi is fine, I can just get a typical hdmi plate and a right-angle cable to fit behind the tv. not sure what to do about the power, though. Is there any sort of "recessed" power outlet type deal I could install? Or if I could find a short, low-profile right-angle power cord for my tv, but I'm not sure that's any more likely...I'd need one that is both right-angle at the tv, and right-angle at the wall, and I haven't turned anything up via google yet. It's a samsung that takes a normal computer power cord type plug.

Any suggestions?

# ? Aug 10, 2012 02:26

Nemico: Sep 23, 2006

Yep. There are lots of different models of recessed receptacles. You can even get just the box, and mount any plates you happen to have, like this one. It's a pretty thorough solution to your problem.

This is a more simple one that might work.

# ? Aug 10, 2012 02:43

Bad Munki: Nov 4, 2008; We're all mad here.

Oh, sweet, that's perfect! I hadn't had any luck finding something like that yet, thanks a ton. I was really hoping to find something that won't require special-order cables so that it'll work right out of the box for the next guy, y'know? Awesome.

e: So wait, does this thing just take whatever thing I have? So like a typical $1 outlet and plate would go inside there on one of the faces? I just want to make sure I'm reading it right.

ee: Extra sweet, it's on amazon prime.

Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Aug 10, 2012

# ? Aug 10, 2012 04:54

Bank: Feb 20, 2004

Since we're on the topic of fishing wires, is there an idiot-proof guide or something for fishing wire underneath the house? I've tried searching online but can't find anything.

Basically I have a 1 story house, and there is electrical being run in the attic, but I want to run some Coaxial and Cat5/6 underneath the house (crawlspace) to run it through some wall plates. There are no holes coming from the crawlspace to the house, so I'll have to drill some, but I have no idea where as I'm worried about screwing up the structure of the house.

# ? Aug 10, 2012 23:53

babyeatingpsychopath: Oct 28, 2000; Forum Veteran

Bank posted:

Since we're on the topic of fishing wires, is there an idiot-proof guide or something for fishing wire underneath the house? I've tried searching online but can't find anything.

Basically I have a 1 story house, and there is electrical being run in the attic, but I want to run some Coaxial and Cat5/6 underneath the house (crawlspace) to run it through some wall plates. There are no holes coming from the crawlspace to the house, so I'll have to drill some, but I have no idea where as I'm worried about screwing up the structure of the house.

This is basically a "how do houses work?" question. Go into your crawlspace and look around. Think about landmarks inside your house that must go through the floor. You can measure off of these. Need something in the bathroom? Sink drains, toilet drains, tub drains. They all go straight through the floor. Sinks usually go through a wall, so you can get lucky there, too. Look for cold water, gas, existing electric. Look for supports. They're usually under walls.

If all that fails, take a baseboard off and drill through the floor/wall, then stick something reflective and long through the hole, then find it with a flashlight. Sometimes great landmarks happen. Your TV may back up against the wall with the fridge. Nobody cares about holes near the floor behind the fridge, so go crazy.

As always, it's your house, and you can fix whatever you break/damage. You can't cause the thing to collapse with a 3/4" drill. The worst you can do is hit a power/water/sewer line.

# ? Aug 11, 2012 01:28

crocodile: Jun 19, 2004

we use these insulation support rods that you sometimes see in crawlspaces..

you can put them in a drill with an adjustable chuck and drill them through the floor or ceiling, in front of your box location, as a flag. then take note of the direction the wall is and how thick of a baseboard/sheetrock you have so when you go into the crawlspace you're drilling into the wall and not into your baseboard or floor or wherever. they only leave a small pinhole that's barely noticeable after you pull it out. a little more foolproof than taking measurements and getting turned around once you're under your house.

crocodile fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Aug 11, 2012

# ? Aug 11, 2012 02:28

Bad Munki: Nov 4, 2008; We're all mad here.

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

You can't cause the thing to collapse with a 3/4" drill.

I think you underestimate what extreme determination can do with a 3/4" drill. :v:

Quick question: am I allowed to run 14/3 romex (or "14/2 with ground", as the wire I have handy says) inside metal conduit? And if not, what do I use instead?

Also, can someone just sanity-check my work, make sure I put this thing together right? It's going to go under the workbench up against the wall, I was just assembling it there because it's easier to work on while I get everything measured/cut/wires run, etc. I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking some stupid, painfully obvious thing.

Also, this is the wire I want to use in it, since I have a bunch of it handy:

The whole thing will be fed off a new 15A line from the breaker box which I have yet to install, and will hook up to that via the nearest box.

e: Meh, I just went ahead and did it with that wire. Everything I read made it sound like it's not normal, due to running romex through conduit being a hassle, but there's no (national) code disallowing it, provided you still meet all the conduit fill requirements and such. In this case, one line in 1/2" conduit, and nothing over 4' long, I'm pretty sure it'll meet code. Got the thing installed, and now I just need to run a line back to the panel to drop in the new circuit.

Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Aug 11, 2012

# ? Aug 11, 2012 03:36

dyne: May 9, 2003; [blank]

So before I go and put up the conduit for the riser for my new 200 amp service:

I bought 3 strands of 4/0 aluminum XHHW-2 for the service, without thinking about how the neutral wire is supposed to be identified....can I use 3 of the same strands and mark the neutral somehow?

# ? Aug 11, 2012 16:42

RedReverend: Feb 15, 2003

Bad Munki posted:

I think you underestimate what extreme determination can do with a 3/4" drill.

Quick question: am I allowed to run 14/3 romex (or "14/2 with ground", as the wire I have handy says) inside metal conduit? And if not, what do I use instead?

Also, can someone just sanity-check my work, make sure I put this thing together right? It's going to go under the workbench up against the wall, I was just assembling it there because it's easier to work on while I get everything measured/cut/wires run, etc. I just want to make sure I'm not overlooking some stupid, painfully obvious thing.

Also, this is the wire I want to use in it, since I have a bunch of it handy:

The whole thing will be fed off a new 15A line from the breaker box which I have yet to install, and will hook up to that via the nearest box.

e: Meh, I just went ahead and did it with that wire. Everything I read made it sound like it's not normal, due to running romex through conduit being a hassle, but there's no (national) code disallowing it, provided you still meet all the conduit fill requirements and such. In this case, one line in 1/2" conduit, and nothing over 4' long, I'm pretty sure it'll meet code. Got the thing installed, and now I just need to run a line back to the panel to drop in the new circuit.

if you strip the jacket off of the cable then it is allowed. Run just the wires through your new conduit.

# ? Aug 11, 2012 17:01

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Bad Munki posted:

e: So wait, does this thing just take whatever thing I have? So like a typical $1 outlet and plate would go inside there on one of the faces? I just want to make sure I'm reading it right.

Yes, you need to add your own receptacle to that box... but you couldn't just stick it inside wherever without some more work. Only low voltage wiring is allowed to terminate freely inside wall spaces. Line voltage must terminate inside an enclosed box, or at least the portion of that box specifically for power must be enclosed and separate from the low voltage. Here, check out this picture of that box. See the extra metal box on top? You would need to attach another handy box just for power, along with a cable clamp for one of the knockouts if the handy box doesn't have an internal clamp.

Actually, I did a lot of searching online for recessed boxes when I put in structured cabling for my house. I found that Arlington makes a poo poo ton of home theater recessed boxes, including plenty with separate high/low voltage dividers.

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

You can't cause the thing to collapse with a 3/4" drill. The worst you can do is hit a power/water/sewer line.

Ummmm, hitting a gas line could potentially blow up his house... Drilling into a sewer line and letting poo poo water spill into his crawlspace would be bad too. Aside from the potential health problems and smell, getting a fine from the city would suck.

Bad Munki posted:

e: Meh, I just went ahead and did it with that wire. Everything I read made it sound like it's not normal, due to running romex through conduit being a hassle, but there's no (national) code disallowing it, provided you still meet all the conduit fill requirements and such. In this case, one line in 1/2" conduit, and nothing over 4' long, I'm pretty sure it'll meet code. Got the thing installed, and now I just need to run a line back to the panel to drop in the new circuit.

Right. The main issue with using NM for conduit runs is ease of pulling. Forget trying to turn a corner with that stuff. Also, I would get pro/commercial-grade receptacles for counter top outlets, simply due to how often plugs go in and out of them.

Where is your workspace exactly? Common locations for work benches also require GFCI protection: garage, unfinished basement, sheds, etc.

# ? Aug 11, 2012 20:25

Bad Munki: Nov 4, 2008; We're all mad here.

Yeah, it's going in the garage. The first outlet in the run is going to be gfci, that's on my list of things to pick up today (currently it's just an empty receptacle at that end, and not connected to any source of power at all.)

Here's where it's actually going, on the underside of the workbench I was building it on. Probably doesn't matter, but that entire wall is an interior wall (there's a hallway and bedroom on the other side.)

In this case, things will be getting connected/disconnected basically never. This entire run is going in for the tools that will be more or less permanently installed on the bench (saw, grinder, drill press, shop vac, air compressor, things like that) as well as a couple power strips, which will be mounted on top of the work bench for routine plugging/unplugging of stuff, or maybe on the sides of the legs at front. Either way, these particular plugs will see very little use.

How often do I have to put one of those little conduit brace dealies on? These are all just shy of 4-foot spans, but at the middle of each there's a very easy place I can put a clamp on, bringing it to just under 2-foot suspensions, if needed.

# ? Aug 11, 2012 22:23

babyeatingpsychopath: Oct 28, 2000; Forum Veteran

RedReverend posted:

if you strip the jacket off of the cable then it is allowed. Run just the wires through your new conduit.

Only if the wires themselves are labeled. Cheap 14/2NM is made with THHN, but the insulation isn't marked on the individual conductors, so it's not legal.

14/2 in conduit is fine as it is. It's just a pain in the rear end to pull, normally.

Bad Munki posted:

How often do I have to put one of those little conduit brace dealies on? These are all just shy of 4-foot spans, but at the middle of each there's a very easy place I can put a clamp on, bringing it to just under 2-foot suspensions, if needed.

You need one within 3' of every box. So one in the middle of every run is fine.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 00:43

Bad Munki: Nov 4, 2008; We're all mad here.

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Only if the wires themselves are labeled. Cheap 14/2NM is made with THHN, but the insulation isn't marked on the individual conductors, so it's not legal.

14/2 in conduit is fine as it is. It's just a pain in the rear end to pull, normally.

That was basically the read I was getting via google. Obviously, in this case, pulling the wire is a cinch, both because of run length, and installation location (on top of a clear 16' work bench.)

quote:

You need one within 3' of every box. So one in the middle of every run is fine.

Super, I was sorta planning on doing that anyhow.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 00:49

dwoloz: Oct 20, 2004; Uh uh fool, step back

I was under the impression that only THHN/THWN were allowed in conduit, not NM, due to heat

Also, I'd highly recommend running 12ga 20A for a workshop (or anywhere really). Its not much more expensive and you won't have to worry about tripping the breaker when you run a saw and a vacuum at the same time

# ? Aug 12, 2012 21:54

dwoloz: Oct 20, 2004; Uh uh fool, step back

dyne posted:

So before I go and put up the conduit for the riser for my new 200 amp service:

I bought 3 strands of 4/0 aluminum XHHW-2 for the service, without thinking about how the neutral wire is supposed to be identified....can I use 3 of the same strands and mark the neutral somehow?

If you mean three of the same color wires then yes. Anything 2ga and larger can have all the same color

# ? Aug 12, 2012 22:00

grover: Jan 23, 2002; PEW PEW PEW

dwoloz posted:

I was under the impression that only THHN/THWN were allowed in conduit, not NM, due to heat

Also, I'd highly recommend running 12ga 20A for a workshop (or anywhere really). Its not much more expensive and you won't have to worry about tripping the breaker when you run a saw and a vacuum at the same time

As far as I know, there's no prohibition of running NM or UF in conduit. Now, you could potentially get into derating situations if you ran multiple NM cables through one conduit, but that doesn't appear to be an issue here.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 22:03

Bad Munki: Nov 4, 2008; We're all mad here.

dwoloz posted:

I was under the impression that only THHN/THWN were allowed in conduit, not NM, due to heat

Also, I'd highly recommend running 12ga 20A for a workshop (or anywhere really). Its not much more expensive and you won't have to worry about tripping the breaker when you run a saw and a vacuum at the same time

I will also be running a 12ga 20A circuit, but only for certain tools (namely, my table saw.) Also, the lights are all going to be on a separate circuit from the 15A circuit I ran today, so that'll help distribute some of the load. If I find I'm tripping the breaker with the little stuff on the 15A tool circuit, I'll just go back and rewire it. Now that I've got all the conduit and ports in the joists and everything, replacing it would be a fairly quick task. For now, though, I'm leaving it, since it's already in.

Also, I just decided to put in a GFCI breaker instead of fiddling with GFCI outlets. That's valid, right? Since the breaker is GFCI, the entire circuit is protected? I'm doing this for both my 15A general-use loop, and my 20A table saw loop.

Anyhow, I've got everything for the 15A circuit run all the way back to the panel, just waiting for my wife to get back so I'm not alone when I start mucking about in the panel.

On a side note, is this bit of conduit and box "overkill" or just "proper procedure?" Inside that box is where I transition from THHN to romex. Reason I ask is because right next to it is a conduit that comes into the basement from the garage that just terminates with a little protective sleeve on the end of the conduit, no transition box or anything. I don't know if that was put in by the original electrician, or the owner. You can sort of see it right behind that yellow gas line.

P.S. Bending conduit is kinda fun.

Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Aug 12, 2012

# ? Aug 12, 2012 23:04

kid sinister: Nov 16, 2002

Bad Munki posted:

Also, I just decided to put in a GFCI breaker instead of fiddling with GFCI outlets. That's valid, right? Since the breaker is GFCI, the entire circuit is protected? I'm doing this for both my 15A general-use loop, and my 20A table saw loop.

Anyhow, I've got everything for the 15A circuit run all the way back to the panel, just waiting for my wife to get back so I'm not alone when I start mucking about in the panel.

On a side note, is this bit of conduit and box "overkill" or just "proper procedure?" Inside that box is where I transition from THHN to romex. Reason I ask is because right next to it is a conduit that comes into the basement from the garage that just terminates with a little protective sleeve on the end of the conduit, no transition box or anything. I don't know if that was put in by the original electrician, or the owner. You can sort of see it right behind that yellow gas line.

P.S. Bending conduit is kinda fun.

GFCI = GFCI, whether it's a breaker version or a receptacle version. Personally, I would have put it in a receptacle in the garage, just so that you didn't have to run all the way back to the panel to reset it in case you do trip it. Plus they're a lot cheaper.

Nope, that's not overkill, that's proper procedure. All junctions must be made inside accessible boxes. Personally, I would have also used the transition box to be the right angle adapter by using a knockout on the back of the box, but that's just me.

I think that your existing empty conduit run was for a previous electrician futureproofing your house. That plastic grommet on the end is just to protect bare cables being pulled down that conduit, covering up any burrs from the cut. The code for low voltage cables (phone, coax, data, security, HVAC, etc) aren't as strict in their raceway requirements, so they don't need box transitions and junctions.

# ? Aug 13, 2012 01:45

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# ? May 8, 2024 20:17

daslog: Dec 10, 2008; #essereFerrari

I have one of these

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler187/

What is the correct wire size and circuit breaker? I have a crappy Pushmatic box.

# ? Aug 13, 2012 02:23

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Hobbies, Crafts, & Houses > Wiring Thread: This stupid safety device started alerting that there wasn't safety!

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