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Clanners don't have CASE?
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Aug 12, 2012 03:17
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Why did the explosion damage in the Warhammer IIC transfer to the center torso? I thought the CASE-system present in all clan mechs prevented this? Edit: Ha! Beaten by seconds!
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Aug 12, 2012 03:18
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dis astranagant posted:Clanners don't have CASE? The pilot disabled it. He didn't want his `Mech captured.  Also, I forgot about CASE entirely (which amazes me, since it was part of my 'it's OK to overheat' strategy) and errors in the players' favor remain.VVV You can disable anything on a `Mech, there's just no reason to (except for a fluff reason like an old Clan `Mechwarrior looking to die). PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 03:18
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PoptartsNinja posted:The pilot disabled it. He didn't want his `Mech captured. You can do that?  ^^^^ Ah, I always thought CASE was a passive system, since it's kind of just a fancy box but I guess that works or something. dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 03:20
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I thought that all Clan mechs had CASE for ammunition, so that explosions would only destroy the section that it was in. If this is the case, then why did it transfer to the centre torso as well? EDIT: Double ninja'd!
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Aug 12, 2012 03:22
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Noo Atlas, why did you split fire?  Also, PTN, should I be at 0 heat? I didn't fire my flamers, so 3x4 for weapons fire + 2 for running = 14 - sunk 18. Edit- Ok, tentative move orders for next turn: (Tentative) Run 1633 → 1533, turn NE, run 1533 → 1632, turn N, run 1632 → 1631 (MP 6, 3 hexes, TH + 1). Torso twist NW. Fire 2x flamers (TH 7; +1 gunnery + 2 ran + 4 target ran + 0 range) then 3x MRM-10s (TH 7; +1 gunnery + 2 ran + 4 target ran + 0 range - 1 iLK + 1 MRM) at H1 Thresher. Heat + 20 - 18 sink. If H1 is not eligible, same weapons fire on H3. If neither H1 nor H3 is available, same weapons fire on T6. Melee H1 or target with best TH. Rivensteel fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 03:37
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PoptartsNinja posted:VVV You can disable anything on a `Mech, there's just no reason to (except for a fluff reason like an old Clan `Mechwarrior looking to die). You can't disable armor 
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Aug 12, 2012 04:04
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b0lt posted:You can't disable armor The other team can do it for you.
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Aug 12, 2012 04:09
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b0lt posted:You can't disable armor Hull plating can't function at a percentage (it's either there or it isn't). That never stopped the original writers of Enterprise.
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Aug 12, 2012 04:11
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Here is a possible set of orders I am thinking about: Move to hex 1628. Torso twist left to face hex 1627. Fire 1 LRM-20 at T2 (TH 6: 1 Base + 1 Walked + 4 Long Range + 0 Enemy Movement). If T2 is destroyed, instead fire 1 LRM-20 at T1(TH 6: 1 Base + 1 Walked + 4 Long Range + 0 Enemy Movement). Fire both Rear Mounted MLs at H3 (TH 7: 1 Base + 1 Walked + 0 Short Range + 4 Enemy Movement +1 Secondary). Fire RA mounted ML at T6 (TH 6: 1 Base + 1 Walked + 0 Short Range + 3 Enemy Movement +1 Secondary). Please tell me if this would be a bad idea. landcollector fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 04:11
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Atlas and everyone south of him, (save land collector who can shoot at the crippled Athena) should go have a party on the threshers rear armor. Atlas can even run over and stand on T6 so it can't shoot at him and for stompings. others line up behind the threshers rear arc and pour in the pain. Everyone north of the atlas, there is a crippled incubus and two tanks that can't run away. DEVOUR THEM. Except Y11 who can run up to that T5 and shoot then kick it in the rear arc.  BURN MAIM KILL.
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Aug 12, 2012 05:10
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dis astranagant posted:You can do that? I imagine it can be removed, if nothing else. There's nothing to say he only just now thought to do this.
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Aug 12, 2012 05:11
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Welp, there went a Clan Assault. Hope those PPCs are okay.
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Aug 12, 2012 05:29
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So he passes a billion critical rolls, then fails his second overheat test and mysteriously explodes to deny salvage of the best mech on the field? Death Commandos can't catch a break.  Also, if you take any clan mechanic teams as prisoners after this mission, loving execute whatever assholes let the Warhammer pilot intentionally plug up his CASE vents and go seeking death. That's wasteful as poo poo in Clan eyes and defeatist to boot. Someone should have reported his rear end instead of just doing his suicide modifications for him.
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Aug 12, 2012 05:41
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Zaodai posted:So he passes a billion critical rolls, then fails his second overheat test and mysteriously explodes to deny salvage of the best mech on the field? As part of a garrison unit, he is likely solahma. His commanders likely didn't give a poo poo. Though a Warhammer IIC is a steep price to pay, his death will clear him of his dishon....Holy poo poo. We are just like him; We are Solahma. (yes, I know the comparison is obvious. Let me have a "WE are the tomatoes!" moment).
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Aug 12, 2012 05:46
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landcollector posted:As part of a garrison unit, he is likely solahma. His commanders likely didn't give a poo poo. Though a Warhammer IIC is a steep price to pay, his death will clear him of his dishon....Holy poo poo. We are just like him; We are Solahma. (yes, I know the comparison is obvious. Let me have a "WE are the tomatoes!" moment). Yes, but part of the reason they get mechs at all is the understanding that mechs can generally be salvaged. They want you to gently caress off and die, but they don't want you completely blowing an assault mech to bits to do it. It sure as poo poo didn't clear him of any dishonored. He died like a bitch and pretty much pissed on every ideal of a Clan warrior. From a story standpoint, gently caress that guy. His clan is going to think he's an even bigger worthless piece of poo poo than he already was.
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Aug 12, 2012 05:57
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Considering his Mech was going to be salvaged by the enemy I'm pretty sure he can be forgiven. Although, I'm not sure I'd call that an error in the player's favor, since it just denied them the most valuable piece of battlefield salvage on the board. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 06:03
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Voyager I posted:Considering his Mech was going to be salvaged by the enemy I'm pretty sure he can be forgiven. Again, he wouldn't have died from the explosion if he hadn't previously rigged his mech for suicide. The Clans are used to the enemy salving things. That's the entirety of how their economy works. They don't do scorched earth. It is entirely on the opposite end from clan warrior ideals. Just to be clear, I understand why it happened from a game mechanics/mistake standpoint. I'm not ragging on PTN for that. Accidents happen. But from a storyline standpoint, this motherfucker just dicked us over because he's an entirely dishonorable, shitsucking coward. The Death Commandos are not nice people. If they found the tech team that made the suicide modifications, they'd probably bust them up as revenge for this one rear end in a top hat basically thumbing his nose at them and denying them one of the best pieces of salvage, the entire point of their campaign on the planet. So no, he's not erasing his dishonor, he's not dying like a clanner, he's not doing any of that poo poo. He's dying like a bitch, and his Clan would be no more happy with him than I am. 
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Aug 12, 2012 06:11
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Voyager I posted:Considering his Mech was going to be salvaged by the enemy I'm pretty sure he can be forgiven. Perhaps at least the ERPPCs survived? Maybe small pieces of Endo-Steel structure and Ferro Fibrous armor shards? Seriously, if we take the field here, get freaking vacuum cleaners and suck up every piece of mech that can be found.
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Aug 12, 2012 06:11
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As lovely as not being able to salvage the Warhammer whole is, it isn't the end of the world. On the other hand, you are probably going to be able to salvage some of the gear it had - at least one ERPPC was on the opposite side of the ammo explosion and the arm was most likely just blasted clear (we can hope.) On the other hand, even if Gooncompany managed to accidentally crush every single machine, weapon and salvageable piece of the OpFor, it would still be a win. Why - because you are about to salvage 6 pristine aerospace fighters (That is the equivalent of a whole company in IS terms!) You guys are already ahead as long as none of the fighters get blown up. In terms of good for the CC the Warhammer was probably one of the most mundane pieces of salvage anyways - an XL engine and some clan weaponry is tech that is present in a lot of other units in the field. Gooncompany would be better off salvaging the Thresher for salvage value - acquiring a working example of MASC technology could mean the CC would be able to reverse engineer it way before any of the other Successor States. It wouldn't be that ridiculous if the Warhammer pilot did decide to take the dishonorable way out though - he IS Solahma after all.
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Aug 12, 2012 07:55
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How good are Clan Aerospace Fighters vs. IS Aerospace Fighters? I know that the pilots of the IS are actually better than their Clan counterparts.
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Aug 12, 2012 08:00
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Clantech is still bullshit in an ASF, no worries there. Generally the reason aerospace assets were less valuable to the clans wasn't just the general pilot inferiority but also that clan doctrine rarely called for their use until they had adapted better to the situation in the IS. Though often Clan fighters fall into a fairly common trap that a lot of I.S. fighters do: Too many guns, too little armor. (You can pack some pretty impressive armor coverage on an ASF as it has the same tonnage limits as a Mech but only 4 locations.) The Tyre is a very nice ASF though - decent if not amazing armor, but also good speed and two very interesting tech weapons - the Ultra AC/10 we have come to dread in this fight as well as the Medium Pulse Laser. It would be very amusing if the Capellans managed to get their mitts on Ultra Autocannons before the FS in the alternate setting. On the subject of salvage, I think it would be a lot more interesting if instead of just jacking Clan 'mechs, Gooncompany could replace some of their damaged armament with salvaged clan variants. Still some salvaged cER Large Lasers in that Flashman while you stick a new cockpit on and that thing gets super scary.
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Aug 12, 2012 08:08
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Picard Day posted:Clantech is still bullshit in an ASF, no worries there. Generally the reason aerospace assets were less valuable to the clans wasn't just the general pilot inferiority but also that clan doctrine rarely called for their use until they had adapted better to the situation in the IS. Though often Clan fighters fall into a fairly common trap that a lot of I.S. fighters do: Too many guns, too little armor. (You can pack some pretty impressive armor coverage on an ASF as it has the same tonnage limits as a Mech but only 4 locations.) Incorrect, ASF can have more armor than a mech. 8 points of armor allowed per ton of aero, over 4 areas... so 200 points per area on a 100 tonner. Clan aero is also less bullshit because aeros do not get the clan crit savings for the most part. Also the clans aerospace fighter selection system failed, hugely failed to the point where IS could reliably beat clan aero. Didn't help that the one clan that likes aerospace and warships (snow raven) in canon ran into the "WE like aero so much we plan to shoot you to death long before you can even try to land" outworlds alliance, and got their faces shot off... and snow raven was so impressed they asked to join or something.
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Aug 12, 2012 08:16
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Artificer posted:How good are Clan Aerospace Fighters vs. IS Aerospace Fighters? I know that the pilots of the IS are actually better than their Clan counterparts. Amazingly better but not as much as on the ground. There's a reason the Striga and Eisensturm are often considered the best fighters in all of Battletech despite, you know, being pure IS technology. Which makes the fact that they could lose to the IS with even numbers incredible.
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Aug 12, 2012 08:28
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AtomikKrab posted:Incorrect, ASF can have more armor than a mech. 8 points of armor allowed per ton of aero, over 4 areas... so 200 points per area on a 100 tonner. Clan aero is also less bullshit because aeros do not get the clan crit savings for the most part. Nice catch on the armor thing - totally missed that. I would compare the Outworlds Alliance and CSR as more of a corporate hostile takeover situation - though the respect built on sharing similar doctrines certainly made things a little smoother for Clan Snow Raven. Also, even if with the equalizer of crits, clan fighters still have all the other trademarks of bullshit clan technology - better damage, lower heat, more guns for less weight. Quite a few of them certainly are not well designed - but some are definitely full of trademark clan bullshitium - such as the Scytha among others. It certainly makes sense that the IS effectively beat the Clans in the ASF war as Spheroid pilots actually did see combat regularly, while their clan counterparts had their thumbs up their asses for a good 200 years. Don't blame the machines for the terrible clan pilots/culture is what i'm saying! Clantech still makes a big difference when you are talking on the ASF scale - though it matters less and less once you get to Dropships/Warships (Generally at this point it barely makes a difference at all.)
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Aug 12, 2012 08:30
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Picard Day posted:The Cat getting a gyro tac is unfortunate, but one of the advantages of 0/1 and 1/2 pilots is the fact that a single gyro hit is far less devastating compared to a standard 4/5 pilot, where it can quite effectively take a mech out of the game (making Piloting checks on 4/5's instead of 8's is a huge difference.)  Speaking of, is my AC/10 ammo stored in the RT of LT, because I'm seriously thinking about dumping it: there's only so many ammo critical hits that I can avoid. Edit: that and falling over caused me to miss my chance of kicking H3 in the back. Oh well, it's someone else's lance problem now. 
radintorov fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 08:32
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quote:- - Must roll 6+ to avoid ammunition explosion! Rolled 3, fails! On the whole 'clanner died like a bitch/loving moron/whatever', I find it much simpler to just assume manufacturing defects happen and this guy got got unlucky with it being him that had it. ...actually, I got my hands on the mechwarrior RPG book recently, and I recall there's a sort of anti-perk you can get that makes your machine kind of a lemon. I could totally see something like this happening if you use that.
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Aug 12, 2012 08:50
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Rorac posted:On the whole 'clanner died like a bitch/loving moron/whatever', I find it much simpler to just assume manufacturing defects happen and this guy got got unlucky with it being him that had it. Its more likely that spare parts are being prioritized for front-line units instead of the second-line garrisons.
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Aug 12, 2012 15:52
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Mostly it was me loving up, though. I was counting on the Case and then said "Y'know, I don't think anyone's seen the penalties for high heat yet" when I rolled the ammo explosion. Whoops. So, how 'bout things that aren't the Warhammer? Your Atlas looks like it's in some serious trouble.
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Aug 12, 2012 22:56
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So.... that Athena's down to 2/3 move, eh? Should makee it easy to catch and finish off now... Along with the Mars. Would heavily suggest that the Stalker move in if possible over the next couple of turns to get in range with its Mlas and SRMs to critseek. Remember, every Crew Stunned result is another turn that it can't shoot.
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Aug 12, 2012 23:01
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PoptartsNinja posted:So, how 'bout things that aren't the Warhammer? Your Atlas looks like it's in some serious trouble. The damage to the Cataphract and Charger made me completely miss noticing the Atlas getting that torso mangled. That Thresher is a goddamn hero.
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Aug 12, 2012 23:02
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Shoeless posted:So.... that Athena's down to 2/3 move, eh? Should makee it easy to catch and finish off now... Along with the Mars. Would heavily suggest that the Stalker move in if possible over the next couple of turns to get in range with its Mlas and SRMs to critseek. Remember, every Crew Stunned result is another turn that it can't shoot. My orders this turn is to advance and fire my Mlas, SRMs and LRMs at the Athena. Range 9 to the Athena from where I can reach.
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Aug 12, 2012 23:03
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Cool beans. That's a lot of damage clusters you can bring to bear, which is the bane of vehicles.
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Aug 12, 2012 23:06
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Hello, once again because I am keeping a spreadsheet in parallel with PTN, I'm picking over the combat report in detail. I hope this is not too irritating.PoptartsNinja posted:Y7 Charger At this point, the Warhammer already was down to 0 armor on all three front torso sections. Since you wrote 0/30, you might have meant it to be a center torso hit, since the side torsos have 24 armor each. In any case, this would have been a crit roll. I'm not sure if a mech-destroying crit here would have prevented the overheat ammo explosion crit though. PoptartsNinja posted:Y11 Po 2 I believe that H4 previously had only 4 remaining armor on its right torso. If this was 10 missiles hitting, this should have done 1 structural damage to the RT, and caused a crit roll. I haven't gone back to previous updates to confirm with absolute confidence that total, though, so I can do that if you like. Of course I am an equal-opportunity nitpicker, so, sorry teammates but: PoptartsNinja posted:T1 Mars Assault Vehicle I believe the Charger has only 13 structure in its arms, not 17. (Its legs have 17), so that shot should leave it with 3 structure remaining. and PoptartsNinja posted:- Fires LRM-15 w/ Artemis IV at Y7 Charger (3 base + 2 range + 1 movement + 0 enemy movement + 1 light woods = 7): rolled 9, 12 missiles hit Right Leg (28/33 armor remains), Left Torso (21/26 armor remains), Center Torso (37/39 armor remains)! I believe Y7 previously had 32/39 armor on the CT, so this shot should bring it down to 30, and following shots from the T1 Mars down to a total of 22/39.
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Aug 13, 2012 00:36
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Leperflesh posted:I believe that H4 previously had only 4 remaining armor on its right torso. They were 5 and 5. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Aug 13, 2012 |
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Aug 13, 2012 01:16
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Considering this is a long-term campaign, I'd almost consider withdrawing the Atlas. That's a valuable piece of hardware, it may be better to try and get it off the map to survive another day rather than see what damage it can put out for another two rounds or so.
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Aug 13, 2012 01:51
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JT Jag posted:Considering this is a long-term campaign, I'd almost consider withdrawing the Atlas. That's a valuable piece of hardware, it may be better to try and get it off the map to survive another day rather than see what damage it can put out for another two rounds or so. Except this is a do-or-die suicide mission. They're trying to win but story wise they can't really run away to survive.
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Aug 13, 2012 02:03
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While true, it doesn't necessarily have to take point for the entire mission, you know?
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Aug 13, 2012 02:06
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JT Jag posted:Considering this is a long-term campaign, I'd almost consider withdrawing the Atlas. That's a valuable piece of hardware, it may be better to try and get it off the map to survive another day rather than see what damage it can put out for another two rounds or so. The biggest problem with this plan is that only the Crockett is still in good shape. PTN has been splitting his fire among the mechs which is why none have fallen (outside of the headcap), but all of them have open or near open torsos. The Atlas is a solid mech, but it isn't worth sacrificing an entire lance for.
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Aug 13, 2012 02:09
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What is the Atlas' ranged capacity? Like TheParadigm said, could the Atlas at least withdraw to more of a supporting position?
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Aug 13, 2012 02:22
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