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UberVexer posted:Despite the open nature of MakerBot, isn't there still some kind of legal binding against outright stealing and profiting from their ideas? GPL v2. Red Hat makes money selling Linux, this isn't really different from a licensing standpoint.
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Aug 10, 2012 13:41
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hobbesmaster posted:GPL v2. Red Hat makes money selling Linux, this isn't really different from a licensing standpoint. But they have flavored it differently, no? There has been support for hardware added to the distributions that other free OS do not support. This guy is literally making MakerBots and selling them. I will probably buy an Acrylic one depending on where it goes, I am a sucker for acrylic objects with LED lighting, but I feel like there is something off about this whole business setup. I do believe that he will produce a product that is as good as the MakerBot, being that he is copying everything about them, I do believe he will be able to do what he is setting out to do, but the thing about buying a MakerBot is that you are buying the name. The act of "MakerBotting" something is the same act as "3D Printing" something, you're just telling the world that you have a MakerBot. As I said before, I'd love to see some hard competition against MakerBot. I want to see prices on these machines go down to enable more people to get their hands on them.
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Aug 10, 2012 14:02
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I believe all the design files for the Replicator are licensed CC-BY-SA, so as long as he says, "I stole this from Makerbot, and here are my modified files," he's good. Probably legal, but definitely contrary to the spirit of the open source hardware movement.
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Aug 10, 2012 14:12
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Zuph posted:I believe all the design files for the Replicator are licensed CC-BY-SA, so as long as he says, "I stole this from Makerbot, and here are my modified files," he's good. Also, I was wrong on the GPL v2 stuff, now that I see my thing-o-matic the boards have little GPL v3 logos on them. I think in this case its exactly the same. (I also note that I didn't get a CD of the source/plans with it which RMS would have issues with; but thats stupid)
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Aug 10, 2012 14:35
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hobbesmaster posted:Also, I was wrong on the GPL v2 stuff, now that I see my thing-o-matic the boards have little GPL v3 logos on them. Yeah, these licensure issues with Open Source Hardware are one of the main reasons the Open Source Hardware Association was started (http://www.oshwa.org/). Unfortunately, they're currently in their own little spat with the Open Soure Initiative (http://opensource.org/) over their logo.
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Aug 10, 2012 14:48
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Zuph posted:I believe all the design files for the Replicator are licensed CC-BY-SA, so as long as he says, "I stole this from Makerbot, and here are my modified files," he's good. I could see that happening. Really, do you need laser-cut paneling when you could setup a die press or injection mold and do the same thing cheaper in the long run?
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Aug 10, 2012 15:44
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Young Freud posted:I could see that happening. Really, do you need laser-cut paneling when you could setup a die press or injection mold and do the same thing cheaper in the long run? Yeah, those are cheaper in the long run, but cheap 3D printers aren't exactly "long run, large quantity" items yet. Better strategy to buy some decent laser cutters so you can easily start cranking out new designs/iterations without requiring a new mold.
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Aug 10, 2012 15:57
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I would be extremely wary of giving that guy a ton of money before he actually has a product. Inexperienced people dealing with manufacturing in China basically guarantees disaster. Since it's kickstarter you won't get a penny back if he can't deliver.
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Aug 10, 2012 16:55
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fartingfool posted:I was more sold on the Cricut cutter products he used to make; those things look badass. The Cricut is an overpriced, locked down knife cutter. You can't cut your own designs; you have to buy their cartridges. And don't even think about using third party software. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cricut#Third_party_software I have a CraftROBO and I love it. I can design anything I want in Inkscape and use the included software to cut it. It seems like he really doesn't understand the spirit of the open hardware movement.
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Aug 10, 2012 17:38
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oxbrain posted:I would be extremely wary of giving that guy a ton of money before he actually has a product. Inexperienced people dealing with manufacturing in China basically guarantees disaster. Since it's kickstarter you won't get a penny back if he can't deliver. People on kickstarter think they're buying products; see ouya.
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Aug 10, 2012 17:43
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What he's doing is like what happened with the Arduino, another Open Hardware platform. Besides if he really can reduce the price by half won't other manufacturers just copy his technique? I think it is what the Open Hardware movement is all about, just not what kickstarter is for. If this guy can reduce the price of makerbots via traditional manufacturing channels then yeah he should make a ton of money. But I don't feel like it is a "project" worth donations.
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Aug 10, 2012 19:56
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The real sleazeball part of the pitch, as I see it, is that he's using the credibility of the Makerbot name to sell his product. His entire pitch hinges on the claim that "My bot is basically a Makerbot, so that means it's going to be a great printer." It permeates the entire tone of the kickstarter. He is intimately linking his product to the Makerbot, even if it has a different name, and that's not cool.
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Aug 10, 2012 20:11
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Wanderless posted:I'm hopefully getting close to a 3D printer build myself, and I'm trying to figure out a few more details before I order the last few parts. I saw that, and it looks way more robust than the extruders that come with most inexpensive printers. Would there be any difficulty with mounting it (just the single extruder, though) to a MendelMax? That combination seems like a sexcellent choice for a nice reliable printer. This also looks like a cool thing to have: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:18597
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Aug 11, 2012 02:36
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Thought I'd share something I'm working on... I really like the Sappho's Head sculpture scanned by Artec, so I've printed another copy at 1.5X times normal to try a few finishing techniques. I'll be making a video, but so far I've done some sanding, fixed overhang troublespots with modelling epoxy, and so far have applied two coats of bronze acrylic paint. Coat 1:  Coat 2:  I'm guessing that a third coat should do it - but I'm wondering if maybe there's some kind of finishing laquer that should go on after that? I've painted a few details on stuff before, but never an entire model.
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Aug 11, 2012 03:59
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techknight posted:Thought I'd share something I'm working on... I really like the Sappho's Head sculpture scanned by Artec, so I've printed another copy at 1.5X times normal to try a few finishing techniques. Did you use primer first? Even a spraypaint primer should help the paint cover more evenly, and help it adhere to the plastic. As for lacquer you can get a spray varathane coating that's usually used for woods but would help protect the paint.
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Aug 11, 2012 17:58
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Claes Oldenburger posted:Did you use primer first? Even a spraypaint primer should help the paint cover more evenly, and help it adhere to the plastic. As for lacquer you can get a spray varathane coating that's usually used for woods but would help protect the paint. Nope! I have no idea what I'm doing, basically.  I'll look into the varathane, and some primer for the next time.
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Aug 11, 2012 18:50
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techknight posted:Nope! I have no idea what I'm doing, basically. Yea primer is pretty key for painting on plastic. Look into tutorials or w.e on painting plastic miniatures (e.g. warhammer) and that should be about the same for painting on the printers plastics
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Aug 11, 2012 20:37
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Ok; it is done makergear M2 ordered, in some time I will be opening my unconstructed set, doing assembly and then printing stuff. I just could not justify $200 for construction/testing, perhaps I will regret that once I'm looking at the ikea furniture from hell all over my workbench, but based on there videos construction takes about an hour for two people.
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Aug 11, 2012 23:26
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I'm just sitting here with several 3D printer sites and my bank balance open in different tabs. I'm probably going to buy something this year. Maybe I should wait just a little longer... Finally a use for this emoticon: 
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Aug 11, 2012 23:39
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Locus posted:I'm just sitting here with several 3D printer sites and my bank balance open in different tabs. I'm probably going to buy something this year. Maybe I should wait just a little longer... Which ones are you debating?
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Aug 12, 2012 00:23
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Linux Assassin posted:Which ones are you debating? Part of me wants a Replicator, but the other part says "No, spend $500-$800 instead, and upgrade later on." I don't know where the second option would leave me, but I guess I'll do more research. It's exciting to see people like you buying stuff though, so I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on the thread in the future. I'm especially interested in seeing any casting you do. Foundry stuff was awesome back when I tried it out in school.
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Aug 12, 2012 01:19
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Locus posted:I don't like exploiting third world countries or encouraging companies that do... but it's hard to argue with the price, if he can pull it off. Read this sentence and think about what was just said there. EDIT:vvvv We all buy stuff made by people who are abused. Don't get sanctimonious about it, is what I'm saying. Midjack fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Aug 12, 2012 |
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Aug 12, 2012 03:26
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Midjack posted:Read this sentence and think about what was just said there. Anyway, as I said, my feelings about the guy are a lot less mild after thinking more about what he's trying to do. Hopefully people's feelings within/about the general "maker" community will dry up the Kickstarter and inform anyone ignorant about the companies and innovation involved.
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Aug 12, 2012 04:12
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Locus posted:Part of me wants a Replicator, but the other part says "No, spend $500-$800 instead, and upgrade later on." I don't know where the second option would leave me, but I guess I'll do more research. You'll learn more if you take the time to build it yourself. Building a RepRap of any kind is rewarding because it's yours, you made it for you. On the other hand the MakerBot will have you printing very detailed prints in, 40 minutes if you're new to the idea of 3D Printing. It's a cost vs. time trade off and that's a personal choice. A MakerBot is a glorified RepRap. "Dualstrusion" or the act of printing with two extruders, is interesting and really fun to mess with if you do get a Replicator. The replicator is capable of higher resolutions than my Prusa Mendel is, and that is closely related to the nozzle and extruder types that I chose. If you go the RepRap route, do some research first and consider which features are important to you. Edit: You can also buy a pre built RepRap, and that's fun and all but at that point I would buy a MakerBot if you could stretch your wallet that far.
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Aug 12, 2012 14:34
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No matter what printer you buy you can always print a RepRap and then build another one for, relatively cheap, if you're feeling crafty.
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Aug 13, 2012 14:09
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I just bought a second Replicator (A real one) and when it arrived, after calibration and first use it stopped extruding from the right extruder. I removed the nozzle and tried to clean it but the plastic looks thick and burned. I can't figure out how to clean the nozzle. Ideas on this?
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Aug 22, 2012 03:33
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My Solidoodle 2 finally arrived. I'll post some pictures and such after I've gotten her up and running/printing. They aknowledged that the shipping thus far wasn't the best and that their website worded things a little deceptively. To make up for it they've included tool kits when they were available, replacement kapton tape, and a short spool of plastic. Unfortunately one thing they didn't put in my kit was the power cord which I promptly emailed support about. Until then I'll be using my laptop's cord. Oh and I ordered the Pro package, which basically is an enclosure and clear door. At first they were shipping them separately but mine came with it. Getting their act together I guess.
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Aug 22, 2012 03:37
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UberVexer posted:I just bought a second Replicator (A real one) and when it arrived, after calibration and first use it stopped extruding from the right extruder. I removed the nozzle and tried to clean it but the plastic looks thick and burned. I can't figure out how to clean the nozzle. Ideas on this? If PLA dump in a 12oz glass of rubbing alcohol. If ABS, dump in a 12oz glass of acetone and cover with aluminum foil and a rubber band. Come back in four hours. Nozzles cleaner than whistles.
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Aug 22, 2012 03:50
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:If PLA dump in a 12oz glass of rubbing alcohol. If ABS, dump in a 12oz glass of acetone and cover with aluminum foil and a rubber band. Will try this, thanks if it works, if not I will report back as such
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Aug 22, 2012 04:02
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I finished painting that Sappho's Head print I posted about earlier: I wrote about the process for Ponoko, and shot some video of the whole thing: http://blog.ponoko.com/2012/08/16/painting-one-of-my-3d-prints-with-video/ I'll definitely give some primer a try next time, and probably epoxy the whole drat thing.
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Aug 22, 2012 12:13
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UberVexer posted:I just bought a second Replicator (A real one) and when it arrived, after calibration and first use it stopped extruding from the right extruder. I removed the nozzle and tried to clean it but the plastic looks thick and burned. I can't figure out how to clean the nozzle. Ideas on this? You paid two grand for a commercial printer, with support. Go get manufacturer support
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Aug 23, 2012 00:28
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insta posted:You paid two grand for a commercial printer, with support. Go get manufacturer support Their solution is to buy another nozzle.
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Aug 24, 2012 11:28
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UberVexer posted:Their solution is to buy another nozzle. A 0-day warranty is ridiculous for as much money as you pay.
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Aug 24, 2012 11:52
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UberVexer posted:Their solution is to buy another nozzle. Are you actually serious here? Because if so, gently caress those guys. They were the top of my short list, too. 
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Aug 24, 2012 13:14
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Splizwarf posted:Are you actually serious here? Mine too. I just emailed them with a link to this thread and quotes, saying that if their customer service/warranty coverage really is so poor, then I'll be rethinking my plan to purchase one of their Replicators. I mean, hell, if they're making you re-buy a part that doesn't work from day 1, then there's clearly no guarantee from them that the replacement nozzle will work, either... if that one doesn't work, what, will they just tell you to buy a third? "Yeah, just keep throwing money at us until you get something that works. What was that about expecting a functioning product when you bought it? lol" Edit: Got a prompt response from them. quote:Hi there, So, I guess that they're either saying that it's UV's fault that it needed to be replaced on the first day, or accusing UV of not actually contacting support? But it also sounds like they're saying it's worth emailing their support again, before buying a new nozzle. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Aug 24, 2012 |
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Aug 24, 2012 15:34
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I actually called up rather than using their email support. I explained what happened, then emailed them a video of the extruder being dumb. They brought me through general tech support bullshit, "Have you tried tightening the screws" and after some time they agreed to "fix it" if I mailed it back. I went to their place in Brooklyn and they gave me a new one. I wasn't about to wait for FedEx to ship a package 20 miles... twice and I figured if I could just show them and let them try to fix it in their shop then they couldn't tell me I was loving with them. If you get a Replicator, or four and you have problems, call the support number they give you because they are less than helpful if you just send them an email. I emailed Bre Pettis about the issue as well, he actually apologized and made it seem like he cared about the fact that I was upset. I'll give them a B as a grade for support; I've seen worse.
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Aug 25, 2012 18:16
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UberVexer posted:I actually called up rather than using their email support. I explained what happened, then emailed them a video of the extruder being dumb. They brought me through general tech support bullshit, "Have you tried tightening the screws" and after some time they agreed to "fix it" if I mailed it back. So what ended being the issue with the extruder?
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Aug 25, 2012 22:18
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peepsalot posted:So what ended being the issue with the extruder? I'm not entirely sure, I got a new printer. I would guess it was the nozzle, it seems to be a common issue that occurs when the extruder hits the build platform it closes itself or bends itself. People complain about it on their Google group a lot and someone had a fix about like, heating it up and jamming a needle into it. It seems too common to not have an actual fix instead of "buy a new nozzle."
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Aug 26, 2012 15:47
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UberVexer posted:I'm not entirely sure, I got a new printer. If its due to collisions then there may not be an actual fix other than replacing the nozzle.
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Aug 26, 2012 16:14
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I've been budgeting for some kind of MakerBot, but this (reliability/warranty as well as parts availability and support) is one of my concerns. What "generation" are these devices currently at? Second or third?
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Sep 3, 2012 13:04
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