Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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The X-man cometh: Nov 1, 2009

Xandu posted:

Between shutting down Tawfik Okasha's channel (yes he's an awful person, not sure that justifies it) and this, Morsi's not doing great on press freedom.

Is this the same way Mubarak cracked down on the press? Or is the MB doing it their own way?

# ? Aug 12, 2012 05:38

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 14:30

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

MothraAttack posted:

Can any Arabic speakers decipher this graphic video? I'm not sure what it's allegedly showing, although some pro-FSA people have said it might be a "pro-regime stunt," but it definitely shows a corpse being thrown from a window to a crowd.

edit: it appears to be FSA throwing the corpses of security personnel from a roof, and it's probably authentic.

How is Syria getting MORE brutal? The longer this thing is stale-mated like this while the international community is sitting on its hands, the less likely it seems that Assad's potential fall will even have an effect on the violence there.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 05:49

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

http://www.france24.com/ar/node/807809

Al Qaeda backed out at the last minute from releasing the kidnapped Saudi diplomat in Yemen. Now they want double the ransom. God only knows how many operations that'll finance.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 07:34

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Some stuff that came up in my Google Plus feed but there's been a major earthquake in Iran that's killed over 200 and injured 2000 and there's some talk by the Saudis of making a "all-women" city where they can be employed.

Young Freud fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Aug 12, 2012

# ? Aug 12, 2012 07:39

Pureauthor: Jul 8, 2010; ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

Young Freud posted:

there's some talk by the Saudis of making a "all-women" city where they can be employed.

I honestly cannot think of a better way to respond to this than with a :psyduck:

.

I mean... seriously?

# ? Aug 12, 2012 07:47

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Pureauthor posted:

I honestly cannot think of a better way to respond to this than with a .

I mean... seriously?

Yeah, at best, it's a half-rear end way of giving Saudi women some basic rights enjoyed by women around the world, and at worse, and most likely :smith:

, it's a prison for independent-thinking women.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 07:50

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

And here I thought they were making progress, allowing women to work in lingerie shops and all.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 08:12

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Young Freud posted:

Some stuff that came up in my Google Plus feed but there's been a major earthquake in Iran that's killed over 200 and injured 2000 and there's some talk by the Saudis of making a "all-women" city where they can be employed.

Saudi Arabia shows the way for achieving gender equality. Separate but equal!

# ? Aug 12, 2012 08:41

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sdyMVRxbVc

Interesting rocket. They made it themselves.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 11:20

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

quote:

Egypt�s former information minister once used covertly filmed sex tapes to control many government officials, including toppled President Hosni Mubarak, media quoted a producer and widow of the country�s head of intelligence as saying this week.

In an interview aired Thursday on Lebanon�s Al-Hayat 2 channel, Etimad Khorshid said former information minister Safwat al-Sharif used hidden cameras to accumulate sex tapes of many officials. Those videos allowed him to control many of Egypt�s most powerful figures, she said.

�Mubarak was under his control,� she told the presenter of the show.

When the presenter asked again, for emphasis, if Sharif had �any videos of Mubarak,� Khorshid answered: �Of course.�

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/12/231821.html

# ? Aug 12, 2012 11:47

Mans: Sep 14, 2011; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Xandu posted:

And here I thought they were making progress, allowing women to work in lingerie shops and all.

Was lingerie a man thing only?

# ? Aug 12, 2012 12:45

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Only men could work in them up until the beginning of the year.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 12:48

Zudgemud: Mar 1, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Xandu posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sdyMVRxbVc

Interesting rocket. They made it themselves.

I hope it doesnt go bang because obviously it has some accuracy issues and it will land in some totally random place, when launced in a city, probably a place full of people.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 13:19

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Xandu posted:

Only men could work in them up until the beginning of the year.

Wasn't also foreign, non-Muslim women could work in them as well or was that just retail sales?

# ? Aug 12, 2012 13:23

GodlessCommie: Apr 4, 2008; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Xandu posted:

Uh

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/12/231821.html

Didn't they find a sex tape in an Egyptian Intel building during the revolution that had some Saudi princess and a media mogul knockin' boots? I'll be on redtube waiting for the hot Mubarak gently caress scenes.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 14:36

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Young Freud posted:

Some stuff that came up in my Google Plus feed but there's been a major earthquake in Iran that's killed over 200 and injured 2000 and there's some talk by the Saudis of making a "all-women" city where they can be employed.

Saudi Arabia finally allowed a single woman on their Olympic team because the IOC threatened to ban them from coming to the games if they didn't. Women who show up at all women fitness centers are still expected to keep their bodies covered while training. A women only city doesn't tell me the women who end up living there will have more freedom.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 15:11

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Did not see this mentioned before, but the Syrian VP is under house arrest for fears he may try to defect.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/syria-opposition-assad-regime-fears-imminent-defection-of-vp-farouk-shara-1.457142

# ? Aug 12, 2012 15:14

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

Highspeeddub posted:

Saudi Arabia finally allowed a single woman on their Olympic team because the IOC threatened to ban them from coming to the games if they didn't. Women who show up at all women fitness centers are still expected to keep their bodies covered while training. A women only city doesn't tell me the women who end up living there will have more freedom.

I saw a picture of their female judo entrant and their 800m runner. Both are wearing amended hijab with pants so they can compete.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 15:17

Ultras Lazio: May 22, 2010; by Y Kant Ozma Post

^^^ animals. (this refers to that video posted earlier)
Look at all the animals running to the corpses likes pack of dogs, to film it on their mobiles.
On another thread we are discussing human advancement with the Curiosity landing on Mars and in another yet the possibilities of life in another planet with the thought that whatever might be out there "quarantined" us.
If there are indeed aliens out there, we must be regarded as the scum of the universe. Literally.

If these a "liberation forces" God help the Syrians. (I am in no way on the side of Assad, I am simply expressing bitterness)

# ? Aug 12, 2012 16:04

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Xandu posted:

Uh

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/12/231821.html

"V for Vendetta" was pretty accurate (the comic)

I love when morons talk about how "the bad guys" we are fighting are terrible for women, and then I just name drop Saudi Arabia. The world's first ladies gulag, good work guys.

Update Apparently Morsi just ordered Tantawi to retire. poo poo just got real.

Mc Do Well fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Aug 12, 2012

# ? Aug 12, 2012 16:18

Ravana: Jan 20, 2006; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Morsi has ordered the head of the army to retire. This will surely end well for everyone involved.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19234763

Edit: ^^oh, gently caress you

# ? Aug 12, 2012 16:28

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

I hope Tantawi's response is other than "You and what army?"
:f5:

# ? Aug 12, 2012 16:36

Mans: Sep 14, 2011; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Ultras Lazio posted:

^^^ animals. (this refers to that video posted earlier)
Look at all the animals running to the corpses likes pack of dogs, to film it on their mobiles.
On another thread we are discussing human advancement with the Curiosity landing on Mars and in another yet the possibilities of life in another planet with the thought that whatever might be out there "quarantined" us.
If there are indeed aliens out there, we must be regarded as the scum of the universe. Literally.

If these a "liberation forces" God help the Syrians. (I am in no way on the side of Assad, I am simply expressing bitterness)

I'm sure you were also repulsed by people gathering around Mussolini's corpse.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 16:54

Pieter Pan: May 16, 2004; Bad faith argument here:
-------------------------------->

Ravana posted:

Morsi has ordered the head of the army to retire. This will surely end well for everyone involved.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19234763

Edit: ^^oh, gently caress you

Apparently a guy name Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi is already named as Tantawi's successor, who was the 'director of military intelligence'. Sounds like he held a powerful position, which means he might be able to take over by force if Tantawi refuses to step down.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 17:07

Augure: Jan 9, 2011; by Y Kant Ozma Boo

Mans posted:

I'm sure you were also repulsed by people gathering around Mussolini's corpse.

For this to be analogous, the video would need to be of people gathering around Bashar al-Assad's dead body. I somehow doubt this is the case.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 17:14

Ultras Lazio: May 22, 2010; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Mans posted:

I'm sure you were also repulsed by people gathering around Mussolini's corpse.

Yes I was when I first saw the photos. Did you see them? The is no need. He was shot and dead well before he and Claretta Petacci were hanged updide down Piazzale Loreto; you don't need to feed the body to the cowards expecially when you allegedly are fighting tyranny.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 18:00

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

Morsi throwing down the gauntlet to Tantawi is really something. The long-awaited showdown between Morsi and SCAF has just been forced.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 18:13

Ham: Apr 30, 2009; You're BALD!

Morsi also cancelled the military's constitutional delcaration (the one they put out during the elections) which gave SCAF some of the presidency's powers, including oversight on consitution committee, right to deny/change anything in the constitution, right of the president to declare war, right of the president to control the Military leadership etc.

Mohamed Tantawi (Minister of Defense) and Sami Anan (Chief of Staff), the heads of SCAF, are both forcefully retired but still serve as special advisors to the President.

His first vice-president is Mohamed Mekki, an opposition judge that's been going against the regime since before 2005 and one who is heavily opposed by the old guard judges who were usually in the NDP's pocket.

This was broadcast on all channels (satellite and local) at iftar (it's still Ramadan). This means they reached an extremely high % of Egypt's population. (If there's danger of a coup, this could be a step to alleviate some of the threat)

Ham fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Aug 12, 2012

# ? Aug 12, 2012 18:18

Davincie: Jul 7, 2008

I kind of hope Saudi Arabia goes through with that idiotic 'woman city' plan. It might give all the women in there the room to work themselves up and organise themselves a bit to work for more rights if no men are watching them. Of course, they will probably just end up being just as repressed.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 18:34

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Is he allowed to fire them?

# ? Aug 12, 2012 20:46

Miruvor: Jan 19, 2007; Pillbug

Is this related to the army's new offensive into the Sinai? Beyond the attack that killed 16 soldiers, they've never really gone into this area during the Muburak era.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 21:16

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

Davincie posted:

I kind of hope Saudi Arabia goes through with that idiotic 'woman city' plan. It might give all the women in there the room to work themselves up and organise themselves a bit to work for more rights if no men are watching them. Of course, they will probably just end up being just as repressed.

I don't know. It'd be like creating a "blacks only" city and talking about allowing them to live with more rights there. "Separate but equal" isn't equal.

# ? Aug 12, 2012 21:17

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

Im really confused by whats going on in Egypt. I thought that Tantawi was the real head of government in Egypt even after the president was elected. After all, the SCAF gave themselves most of the real powers right before the president was elected. So how can Morsi just force Tantawi and many other high ranking SCAF members to retire? And if the SCAF amended the constitution so that only the SCAF and not the president can change it then how can Morsi just "cancel" the amendment they made? I remember there was a lot of controversy right before Morsi was elected about how his ability to govern would be very limited after the SCAF made a last minute change to the constitution but I never heard that all he had to do was fire everyone in the SCAF and cancel the constitution in order to get more political power for himself. I guess his power wasnt so limited after all?

Wouldnt this be sort of analogous to Ahmadinejad forcing Khameini to retire?

# ? Aug 12, 2012 21:28

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008

Here's the always-excellent Arabist blog's analysis of the situation right now. Bolding is mine:

quote:

I hate to come out with a full-fledged analysis as the full picture of today�s news from Egypt is still coming out, but the importance of Morsi�s changes to the military and cancellation of the terrible June 17 Supplementary Constitutional Declaration deserves some comment. Here is my preliminary take, which I will no doubt revise in coming days and that is not exhaustive. Please leave what I�m missing out on in the comments.

I�d divide what happened today in two parts. First, what has changed in the military:

Defense Minister and SCAF head Hussein Tantawi, who will be replaced by Head of Military Intelligence AbdelRahman El-Sissi
Chief of Staff of the Armed Forces Sami Enan.
Both Tantawi and Enan have been named presidential advisors, and were recently awarded the Order of the Nile medal. It appears they will be protected from punishment for their actions during the transitional period.
The heads of every service of the Armed Forces (Air Force, Air Defenses, Navy) were also retired but were given golden parachutes (one is now head of the Suez Canal Authority, another the new Minister of Military Production, etc.) It appears they will be replaced by their deputies.
There seems to be more personnel changes and shuffles � but mostly within the logic of promotion typical of the Egyptian military (i.e. no people were suddenly dropped into the senior ranks from lower ranks or outside the senior staff).
The overall impression I get is of a change of personalities with continuity in the institution. More junior officers are taking the posts of their former superiors, and some SCAF members are shifting positions. The departure of Tantawi was inevitable considering his age and unpopularity.

The really surprising thing is that for months there had been reports of positioning within the military-intelligence nexus for the succession battle for post-Tantawy. Leading candidates were Sami Enan, recently fired Head of General Intelligence Mourad Mowafy and to a lesser extent El-Sissi. There were also inconsistent speculation (from well-informed sources with direct SCAF access) about the relationship between El-Sissi and Mowafi. El-Sissi�s appointment is consistent with the idea that he long was one of the most powerful (but less obviously so) members of SCAF, and Enan�s departure is quite striking.

This continuity suggests to me that we are dealing with a reconfigured SCAF that is nonetheless a powerful entity that still has powers parallel to the presidency and other civilian institutions. It is not, as the initial reaction to today�s news largely was, a victory by Morsi over the military. Rather, it is a reconfiguration of the relationship.

Even so, it does appear the presidency comes out reinforced. This is the second part of the major changes announced today. Morsi also declared though a four-article decree that:

the June 17 Supplemental Constitutional Declaration is annulled;
the president has assumed the powers outlined in Article 56 of the Constitutional Declaration, i.e. the powers previously held by SCAF
the president will, through a national consultation, appoint a new Constituent Assembly within 15 days if the president does not complete its task. A new constituent assembly would prepare a new constitution within three months, be referred to a national referendum within 30 days of completion, and once adopted would be followed by new parliamentary elections within two months.
It�s hard to think of a way to avoid this considering the lack of alternatives and the mess Egypt is in, but Morsi has effectively, on paper, dictatorial powers. It will largely come down to how he uses them, especially as the last thing Egypt needs is a government unable to make decisions and address urgent problems simply because the parliament is not in place.

The appointment of Mahmoud Mekky, a senior judge, as vice-president closes the hole left by the delay in appointing any vice-president. The choice is not a bad one and may help Morsi in his fight with the senior ranks of the judiciary. Of course many will still wait for the Christian and female VPs he promised to appoint (and it would have been smarter to make moves in those directions at the same time.)

Overall, I think this is a very welcome move. But it does not necessarily change much aside from break the deadlock over the constitutional declaration. These moves will be seen by many opponents of the Brotherhood as a power grab, and the fact that Morsi has amassed considerable power (again, on paper) is indeed cause for concern. The power to appoint a new constitutional assembly is particularly key, if he ends up using it, I certainly hope it will be to appoint something acceptable to non-Islamists rather than impose the one Islamists wanted earlier this year (unfortunately, the MB�s sense of electoral entitlement makes me pessimistic here). How Morsi navigates this in the next few weeks will be crucial, as well as how secular parties and movements react, particularly considering their unwillingness to work with the MB in recent weeks. Some of these just want to sabotage Morsi and see the MB fail. Some openly called for a military coup against him.

I�m not in Egypt at the moment so it�s tough for me to get a sense of what the mood is, but I would not be surprised if public opinion backs not so much Morsi but the sense of things finally moving forward again. But I am really unable to say whether, apart from breaking the deadlock, it will be a positive development in the long term. The possibility of a new MB-military understanding is still there, and it�s what appears to be underpinning today�s news. In other words, Egypt got rid of military leaders who outstayed their welcome, but may instead get a more subtle military leadership that is better able to work out an understanding with a Muslim Brotherhood that seems attached to a majoritarian idea of democracy, and of course remains generally illiberal. But at least, it gets rid of what was an untennable form of direct military rule and empowers an elected civilian president. Let's hope he uses his new powers wisely.

So basically, it's not neccessarily a massive power grab by Morsi, but a return to how things would have been before the June decree that SCAF made just after the second round of voting. That being said, the shuttering of al-Dostour, the sacking of Okasha (even if the guy was an enormous prick who deserved to get shitcanned) and this kind of illustrates that Morsi and the FJP are still somewhat political neophytes who haven't figured out whether a sledgehammer or a scalpel is a better tool to use for governing.

Edit: now with a link: http://www.arabist.net/blog/2012/8/12/the-morsi-maneuver-a-first-take.html

# ? Aug 12, 2012 21:41

New Division: Jun 23, 2004; I beg to present to you as a Christmas gift, Mr. Lombardi, the city of Detroit.

A Turkish politician just got kidnapped by the PKK. The PKK seems to be more active than usual lately.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b285_story.html

# ? Aug 13, 2012 00:23

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

New Division posted:

A Turkish politician just got kidnapped by the PKK. The PKK seems to be more active than usual lately.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b285_story.html

That is incredibly bad news, but there hasn't been any good news from there recently.

# ? Aug 13, 2012 00:51

Davincie: Jul 7, 2008

shrike82 posted:

I don't know. It'd be like creating a "blacks only" city and talking about allowing them to live with more rights there. "Separate but equal" isn't equal.

The big difference is that if people from a different race were to be put in a seperate city and were to organize they could be easily struck down in that envoirenment without many people really caring (because in a nation where that is possible you can assume the general population is racist). However if women were to organize, were to protest, were to fight for their rights in such a city people would be more likely to care because it isn't some other people being struck down in response by the governement but their daughters, wives and mothers. This all does still assume of course they would take the chance in this hypothetical situation to fight back.

# ? Aug 13, 2012 04:20

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Some interesting media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWqu1h420Xg&feature=player_embedded

Can't verify it, but it appears to be an ammo dump getting blown the gently caress up.

Someone is going to need some logistical support.

Not a video, but a day in the life sort of thing following a "brigade" in Aleppo.

http://akhbar.alaan.tv/video/alaan-reports/Day-battalion-army-Aleppo-free/

I'll see if any more information pops up on the ammo dump explosion.

# ? Aug 13, 2012 04:21