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Fontoyn posted:And a slick double-leg. From what I remember about my first white belt comp being sprawled on honestly wasn't a big deal because nobody spun to my back and I could sit out or just turn the corner in a worst case scenario. A slick power double can definitely stun your opponent and create opportunities for dominant positional attacks, but watch that you don't put your neck somewhere dangerous in the scramble.
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Aug 12, 2012 19:19
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Xguard86 posted:yes, good wrestlers can win white belt divisions by just wrestling and avoiding easy submission opportunities for their opponent. Every championship white belt match looks like wrestling in a gi. They can win a lot more than just beginner if they are good, collegiate wrestlers with next to no training.
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Aug 13, 2012 15:18
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Thoguh posted:I disagree with that. If a reasonable injury in a sport would have a big impact on your ability to make a living it is totally legit to take that into consideration when choosing whether to participate. In fact it would be stupid not to. If you're a watchmaker, artist or surgeon it's probably better to stay away from boxing, but that goes for any "dangerous" hobby. It sounded more like he thought boxers break their hands all the time, which is an unreasonable stance as that's unlikely to happen to a recreational boxer and he'll probably notice whether he has particularly brittle hands before it's too late. There really aren't any other serious options if he can't grapple & kick and boxing sure is safer than getting oriental tattoos and hitting some stupid wooden dummy.
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Aug 13, 2012 16:45
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Is it a good idea to mention a problem with anxiety and panic attacks when signing up to a martial arts class? I had a free introductory kickboxing session at a local MMA gym last month, and the instructor gave me a medical form to fill in, which asked me if I had any "mental illness". I mentioned the anxiety and panic attacks to the instructor, and he seemed concerned at first. I had to reassure him that I have done other vigorous forms of exercise like weight-training and running without any problems. He said he admired my honesty, which made me wonder if most people keep this to themselves. I really enjoyed the kickboxing session, but all his classes clashed with my working hours. I'm looking for other local classes, but I would like advice on whether or not to just keep my mouth shut about the anxiety/panic thing.
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Aug 13, 2012 19:52
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Pickman posted:I would like advice on whether or not to just keep my mouth shut about the anxiety/panic thing. Keep your mouth shut. Martials arts gyms/schools/instructors almost always use some pre-written form that they found somewhere. They don't really care about your mental health issues. They just want to know if you have any physical injuries or problems that they should know about beforehand. The instructor was probably alarmed at the fact that you actually answered "yes" that question because I'll bet that you are the first person to ever do so. Besides, mental health issues are not particularly relevant to training unless you are schizophrenic or somesuch. But if you are, it's unlikely that you'd be able to fill out the rest of the form. The only thing that you will do by disclosing is scare people unnecessarily.
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Aug 13, 2012 20:03
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entris posted:Besides, mental health issues are not particularly relevant to training unless you are schizophrenic or somesuch. But if you are, it's unlikely that you'd be able to fill out the rest of the form. I thought that might be the case. I'll shut up about it next time then.
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Aug 13, 2012 20:10
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If you have any genuine concerns that this issue might impact your training a little, I'd highly recommend reading this article, even though you're not precisely in the target audience. In any event it's nobody's business but yours. If you try to sue them because you had a breakdown from their recommended training routine, then it could matter what you told them. But realistically that won't happen, so no, it doesn't matter and there's no reason to bring it up. McNerd fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Aug 13, 2012 |
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Aug 13, 2012 20:26
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McNerd posted:In any event it's nobody's business but yours. If you try to sue them because you had a breakdown from their recommended training routine, then it could matter what you told them. But realistically that won't happen, so no, it doesn't matter and there's no reason to bring it up. At the time, I thought that there must be a good reason why they included "mental illness" on the medical form, I just couldn't figure out what that reason was. I decided to err on the side of caution and mention it, in the hope that the instructor might explain it to me. He didn't, and I think I might have unnecessarily freaked him out, so I won't be mentioning it again.
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Aug 13, 2012 21:06
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Pickman posted:At the time, I thought that there must be a good reason why they included "mental illness" on the medical form, I just couldn't figure out what that reason was. I decided to err on the side of caution and mention it, in the hope that the instructor might explain it to me. He didn't, and I think I might have unnecessarily freaked him out, so I won't be mentioning it again. It's not so much you freaked him out, but that by disclosing it, you're putting it on him to decide whether it's a risk to the gym or not. A big part of martial arts is struggling with your own anxiety anyways so I think it's a good idea not to disclose it in the future.
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Aug 13, 2012 22:05
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Jitz talk: gently caress, today was one of those days where I can't grapple to save my loving life. I started every round from my guard and without fail I got smothered and punched by guys just barely heavier than me. It's like I can get space, but I can't do anything with it... Jitz guys, I know this is a really vague description of a problem, but how do I fight back against guys who are able to completely smother me from inside my guard? It's a good strategy our gym teaches: we wait in their guard, throw shots until they go for something and then jump out. How do I counter this? Are there any little adjustments any of you have made that 8mmensly improved your offensive guard?
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Aug 14, 2012 05:08
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Fontoyn posted:Jitz talk: Try not to allow them to hold you flat on your back. Get on your sides and use your hips to stay mobile. Or posture up into a sitting guard/butterfly guard. Just don't let them smother you.
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Aug 14, 2012 06:21
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Font best plan is to just open your guard and use your feet to control their hips, climb your guard up towards their shoulders. It's not actually a great idea to punch from inside someone's closed guard, because each time you load up and swing is an invitation for them to sweep you or block your bicep with a foot or shin. We need a better description of the 'smother,' but if you mean keeping upright posture and driving into you as you try to shrimp away then you should anticipate them pushing forward after you've made space and use that to sweep them. Also, never be afraid to switch to halfguard (maybe even "let" them pass one of your legs if they're being encouraged to stand up when you play open guard).
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Aug 14, 2012 19:25
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Strike Chat: I'm feeling a LOT more confident in my sparring, I keep a very fast pace and am getting more precise with my strikes and slipping/parrying much better. Naturally I still have a lot to work on, so it's time to ask for more advice! Problem 1) I get upper-body tunnel-vision. It's like I forget entirely about defending my legs and just eat kick after kick. Then I realize that and start focusing on my legs more and then get tagged by punches. Is this one of those "you just get better at it" kind of things or is there something I could try to better (remember to) protect my legs? I wonder if it's because when we're sparring I know that with padding and that people aren't trying to kill eachother, I don't really care if I eat a kick. It doesn't actually affect me, I just ignore it and keep going. Punches are different because you really notice when you've been hit solid in the head but the kicks I am not concerned about at all. Problem 2) As a taller guy ( for my class, I'm only 6'3" ) I need to use my reach more. I get told this universally and regularly - I need to focus on my jab, straight, teeps, and roundhouses more to use my reach to my advantage. This also would help my leg defense since I'd have more time and space to react. I think one of the reasons I keep forgetting this is that I always want to do a big combo and/or work my way in closer for a clinch/knee bonanza. So I suppose this might be better phrased as "what should my goal be?" I feel like I should be working to get in close enough to clinch as my primary goal, all the time, every time. However it seems like other people are telling me I should focus on keeping my distance as my primary goal, everything else is secondary. Which is it? I'm sure the answer is "both", so does that mean I should generally keep my distance but try to close if I think I see an opening/can get in close quickly and efficiently? Or does it depend on the context? I know that keeping distance is a good goal for say, a tournament, or a point-based match and that cumulative strikes is the way to win. So maybe I'm confusing things by wanting to "end the match" quickly? TollTheHounds fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 19:29
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TollTheHounds posted:Strike Chat: I'm not a very good teacher, I'll admit, but I'm a pretty experienced striker so take my advice as you will. 1. I've never understood the tunnel vision thing in this context. It's really easy to watch your opponents entire body with your peripheral vision. Mostly what you need to be aware of is hip movement and body movement. If you can watch for all the tell tale signs you can react with plenty of time to spare to both kicks and punches. Also, don't do that stupid 'look where your attention actually is' stuff. That's obviously a dead give-away, maybe that's why when you're looking for kicks you get punched and vice versa. 2. Use your range if you've got it. You might want to get in close and do your thing, maybe you're even awesome in the clinch, but you have to consider that you're taking an advantage away from yourself by doing so. Fight on the outside to minimize chances to get hit or countered and when they inevitably make a bold attempt to get inside your range (because that's where they can do damage to you) as they move in, you move in too and close the gap so you're in clinch range. Tie them up, finish them off, do whatever you do, and be good at disengaging if it's not going your way. Always remember to cover your exit with a jab to keep them at distance. In general try to keep that distance advantage.
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Aug 14, 2012 20:02
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TollTheHounds posted:Problem 1) I get upper-body tunnel-vision. It's like I forget entirely about defending my legs and just eat kick after kick. Then I realize that and start focusing on my legs more and then get tagged by punches. Is this one of those "you just get better at it" kind of things or is there something I could try to better (remember to) protect my legs? I wonder if it's because when we're sparring I know that with padding and that people aren't trying to kill eachother, I don't really care if I eat a kick. It doesn't actually affect me, I just ignore it and keep going. Punches are different because you really notice when you've been hit solid in the head but the kicks I am not concerned about at all. Usually this can get fixed by widening your stance. A large part of the time, when someone doesn't just auto check a kick it's because doing so would throw them off balance, or they can't block and return to neutral fast enough due to balance. Which explains why you have to drag focus from upper body to lower body, etc. You're consciously reminding yourself to correct for the block. Which is fine when you're starting, but only for like the first 2 or 3 months. Widen your stance, and try to 'sit' down more. If you're blocking and feeling like you're going up even more from a standing up straight position, you're doing it wrong. You should feel like you're going to almost stand up straight, but not quite. quote:Problem 2) As a taller guy ( for my class, I'm only 6'3" ) I need to use my reach more. I get told this universally and regularly - I need to focus on my jab, straight, teeps, and roundhouses more to use my reach to my advantage. This also would help my leg defense since I'd have more time and space to react. I think one of the reasons I keep forgetting this is that I always want to do a big combo and/or work my way in closer for a clinch/knee bonanza. So I suppose this might be better phrased as "what should my goal be?" I feel like I should be working to get in close enough to clinch as my primary goal, all the time, every time. However it seems like other people are telling me I should focus on keeping my distance as my primary goal, everything else is secondary. Which is it? I'm sure the answer is "both", so does that mean I should generally keep my distance but try to close if I think I see an opening/can get in close quickly and efficiently? Or does it depend on the context? I know that keeping distance is a good goal for say, a tournament, or a point-based match and that cumulative strikes is the way to win. So maybe I'm confusing things by wanting to "end the match" quickly? The problem here isn't really your strategy, but just a fundamental problem that will take time to overcome, and that is you don't know how to manipulate distance in a match. This is something that can't really be trained, but rather you just have to spar a ton and experience it. All you have to do is make sure that every point of impact you are fully extended with your weight behind each hit, and you can't do much more than that. Don't stuff your punches, and don't remain perfectly in your opponent's range. your height is actually about average, I don't know what weight you are at, but it's not really going to give you that much of a distance advantage unless you're fighting at the 70kg or under division. Just be very mindful of ranges, and make sure to either keep them at your ideal distance or close instantaneously breast to breast. Keeping your opponent at the medium distance makes for very sloppy and ineffective fighting (uppercuts, elbows, and long knees are pretty much the only effective weapons for such a distance)
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Aug 14, 2012 20:07
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Try to immediately follow up their kick with one of your own. This will force you to remain in the correct stance & you should automatically begin to check more kicks the more you spar that way. It would probably help if your sparring partners actually knew how to kick because I'm not buying the "kicks don't affect me" from a beginner. 6'3 is definitely more than "about average", that's frail/unathletic if you're under 80kg. Focus on straight punches for your "big combo". Fighting at a distance doesn't mean running away, it means that your opponent needs to take an extra little step to reach you, which you should exploit. Knee bonanza isn't the primary goal of an intelligent fighter, only Tong Po does that.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:09
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Paul Pot posted:
His opponents are all going to be within his height range making him 'about average', unless he is fighting around 70kg. He shouldn't be learning to fight like a distance fighter unless he is 70kg or does have abnormally long limbs
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Aug 14, 2012 22:20
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Guilty posted:He shouldn't be learning to fight like a distance fighter unless he is 70kg or does have abnormally long limbs This is bad advice considering he's already stated that he does in fact have a reach advantage over most of his gym. Why would you not try to learn how to use that? Learn to use the tools so you can use them when you need to.
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Aug 14, 2012 22:28
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Novum posted:This is bad advice considering he's already stated that he does in fact have a reach advantage over most of his gym. Why would you not try to learn how to use that? Learn to use the tools so you can use them when you need to. Because he does not have a height advantage? Do I have to draw you a diagram?
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Aug 14, 2012 23:00
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Guilty posted:His opponents are all going to be within his height range making him 'about average', unless he is fighting around 70kg. He shouldn't be learning to fight like a distance fighter unless he is 70kg or does have abnormally long limbs I'm 6'3 80kg and there's nobody at this weight with a significant height/reach advantage over me, while there are a few people with a definite height/reach disadvantage. 
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Aug 14, 2012 23:49
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Welp, the Germans are all taller than me then. Either way, this is never going to be resolved.
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Aug 14, 2012 23:59
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Novum posted:I'm not a very good teacher, I'll admit, but I'm a pretty experienced striker so take my advice as you will. 1. I'm not sure if it is mental tunnel-vision ( as in, I just get extremely focused on what the upper body is doing and "forget" about their lower body ) or if it's maybe a product of my headgear. This is what I'm using: http://www.drakosports.com/p-646-drako-leather-training-boxing-headgear.aspx and it definitely limits my peripheral vision. I'll throw it on tonight and just see if that's what's happening and I just don't realize it. It does feel like I have to move my head though to see what their legs are doing. Again though, could be mental. 2. Noted! I guess I just have always felt like my goal is to get into a clinch and that the distance stuff was just to facilitate that. I should be thinking of it more as trying to take advantages when I see them, right? Distance as I can then if they step into THEIR range I either back out, or try to punish them by closing the gap? Guilty posted:Usually this can get fixed by widening your stance. A large part of the time, when someone doesn't just auto check a kick it's because doing so would throw them off balance, or they can't block and return to neutral fast enough due to balance. Which explains why you have to drag focus from upper body to lower body, etc. You're consciously reminding yourself to correct for the block. Which is fine when you're starting, but only for like the first 2 or 3 months. Widen your stance, and try to 'sit' down more. If you're blocking and feeling like you're going up even more from a standing up straight position, you're doing it wrong. You should feel like you're going to almost stand up straight, but not quite. I'll definitely try to sit more. To be honest I don't think it's that I'm worried about balance when checking, I think it's that I either can't see the kick coming or I'm so focused on when *I* am doing ( and what their upper-body is doing ) that I don't really realize until after the kick has happened. I think in general I need to practice checking faster though, there are times where I simply don't get my leg up fast enough. Second part definitely hits home, I don't think I'm very good at using/judging distance. I tend to wade in and if they come in as well then I stay there, I guess keeping us at "medium-range" ( for me ), if they keep stuffing my clinch attempts. I'll try to keep it either one or the other - distance or clinch, no inbetween if I can help it. I'd never really considered that aspect! Paul Pot posted:Try to immediately follow up their kick with one of your own. This will force you to remain in the correct stance & you should automatically begin to check more kicks the more you spar that way. It would probably help if your sparring partners actually knew how to kick because I'm not buying the "kicks don't affect me" from a beginner. I'll try immediately returning kicks too. Now that you mention it that is one thing the more experienced guys always do, almost every time. As for kicks not affecting me, I don't think it's a product of form so much as my partners are just holding back. Nowadays since there was a big influx of other beginners I tend to not spar with the advanced guys as often. Next session I'll straight up ask everyone to go full power with kicks and then we'll see what's up. It's funny because when I started posting about sparring originally I was bemoaning that I was the only newb and it was depressing always getting my poo poo stuffed, now I'm starting to wish I could go back and only spar with people way better than me. Never satisfied. Also noted about distance not equal to running away - that may be part of it. When I was first sparring I WAS running away essentially, so I could have started associating distance with cowardice and went in the opposite direction. As far as weight: I'm 84kg right now, though I am now trimming down after bulking up a bit last year so I'll probably drop another kilo or 3 depending how seriously I take it. Anyway - in my class there is only 1 person who is taller than me by maybe 1" or so ( he also probably has 10kg of muscle on me too ), everyone else I have a several inch height advantage. I guess I don't know about reach, my limbs are long but not freakishly so. Granted, this is just at my gym, ideally I would be trying to have a broad style that would be applicable regardless of the height of my opponent in whatever sort of match I'm in. I don't think I'll be ready for a tournament any time soon though so I've never really considered weight classes. TollTheHounds fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Aug 15, 2012 |
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Aug 15, 2012 00:42
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Doesn't matter much how big the other fighters are at YOUR gym. What matters is how big the other fighters are at the OTHER gym. Guaranteed every gym has a 190/85kg guy, and that guy's gonna be your opponent
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Aug 15, 2012 01:39
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Guilty posted:Doesn't matter much how big the other fighters are at YOUR gym. What matters is how big the other fighters are at the OTHER gym. Guaranteed every gym has a 190/85kg guy, and that guy's gonna be your opponent Eh, I'm not certain he ever specified that he was trying to run around competing. Just training right now, so there's no reason not to practice using your range, if only to diversify his training program. No diagrams needed buddy.
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Aug 15, 2012 02:00
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"Using your range" can easily be misunderstood as "stay at a distance and potshot". I went through that phase and still go back to that mindset once I gas, but it's really not useful for winning fights. A taller fighter walking you down is much harder to deal with. I'm no fan of huge headgear unless your job situation doesn't allow bruises/blemishes, use the type of headgear you'd compete with. Lowkicks not affecting you definitely boils down to bad technique, you can't correctly use your hips & the right angle without generating some kind of power. There's still a big difference between that and throwing at full force btw.
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Aug 15, 2012 08:22
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On monday I was back on the mat for the first time since I got injured, and looking at the calendar now, it appears I've basically been gone for two months, which is the longest I've been away from the jits for years, and I gotta admit, it's felt surprisingly nice. At this point in time, I don't think I could make a conscious decision to put away jits unless I got some very serious injury or the like, but it's an interesting contrast to a few years back when I couldn't really imagine my weeks without atleast 3x jits mixed in. I was a little wary about going back, certain that my conditioning and jits would be all but gone and that the people who'd been active this summer would show me what for, and altough the former was certainly somewhat lacking, I'm pleasantly surprised at my performance. It certainly means nothing, but getting my first submission in four seconds by way of guilliotine seems like an auspicious season start! Also, local competition next thuesday. That I basically haven't trained anything of note for two months and that work doesn't really allow me more than a couple of classes inbetween then and now certainly shouldn't be an issue! Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Aug 15, 2012 |
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Aug 15, 2012 08:27
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Paul Pot posted:"Using your range" can easily be misunderstood as "stay at a distance and potshot". I went through that phase and still go back to that mindset once I gas, but it's really not useful for winning fights. A taller fighter walking you down is much harder to deal with. Cheekguards don't make that much of a difference and honestly they don't make a difference if you suck anyways as you will still get leather burn.
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Aug 15, 2012 08:44
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When sparring, do you guys (try to) watch the eyes, the hands, the forehead or some other body part? I focus on the eyes (at the insistence of my trainer) and feel it gives great peripheral vision, as well as helping me read my opponent.
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Aug 15, 2012 09:44
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gregarious Ted posted:When sparring, do you guys (try to) watch the eyes, the hands, the forehead or some other body part? I focus on the eyes (at the insistence of my trainer) and feel it gives great peripheral vision, as well as helping me read my opponent. I've always been told to focus on the chest area, just below the chin, to be aware of more of the whole body and leg movement. Also helps with tucking your chin, at least it does for me .
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Aug 15, 2012 10:20
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gregarious Ted posted:When sparring, do you guys (try to) watch the eyes, the hands, the forehead or some other body part? I focus on the eyes (at the insistence of my trainer) and feel it gives great peripheral vision, as well as helping me read my opponent. I try to look at the chest and shoulders, mostly. I don't really feel like the eyes show me as many tells as their body does-- but this is also just what I've been told to do by people who do boxing and kickboxing.
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Aug 15, 2012 10:23
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mewse posted:It's not so much you freaked him out, but that by disclosing it, you're putting it on him to decide whether it's a risk to the gym or not. A big part of martial arts is struggling with your own anxiety anyways so I think it's a good idea not to disclose it in the future. Hell yeah, if you have anxiety and panic attacks martial arts is great therapy. The owner of the club I sometimes instruct at often says we are, besides helping people stay fit, keeping them out of mental wards and pubs frequented by alcoholics 
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Aug 15, 2012 10:49
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KidDynamite posted:Cheekguards don't make that much of a difference and honestly they don't make a difference if you suck anyways as you will still get leather burn. I have the Winning headgear and it makes it harder for me to keep up with what's going on below waist level n/h. It makes a bigger difference with nose protection than with the cheekbones imo, but I value better vision higher than either of the two. I look at whatever naturally aligns with the tucked chin stance (usually the upper chest area) unless I'm playing mindgames.
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Aug 15, 2012 13:24
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I don't have too much to add, but that one thing that helped me learn to judge distance was to have slow motion sparring sessions. Distance judging during pad work is a little different since most people hold pads a little bit in front of their face, so I work with people to do a couple of sessions of slow motion sparring to help transition from padwork to sparring. It's a safe time to learn since you don't have to worry about returning fire immediately or getting pummeled, etc. Kind of obvious, but also practice your peripheral vision while doing padwork and figure out where to focus your eyes, which may be different depending on how tall/short your partner is and what kind of fighter your partner is.
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Aug 15, 2012 17:03
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I focus on the eyes to see how I'm doing throughout the match. Also, now that someone mentioned it, good padwork and bagwork is the perfect way to learn distancing and range. If someone holds bad pads, you're going into the ring stuffing yourself. If your pad holder is good, he's going to make you stretch to land the hardest hit you can.
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Aug 15, 2012 17:42
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Figured this would fit here better than in the Fencing thread. I do historical fencing at Guy Windsor's school. The techniques we use are reconstructions from combat and dueling manuals from the late middle ages, with an emphasis on italian works (such as Fiore and Vadi). The weapons we use are the longsword (a two-handed sword), the dagger, the spear and the pollax. Occasionally we also dabble in historical rapier fencing and sword-and-buckler. There is also unarmed combat, with an emphasis on wrestling. Much of the stuff we do is rather dangerous, even with blunt weapons, so there's a lot of restraint involved. There are tournaments for historical fencing, but they favor a more sports-like style, with little love taps for points, and hopping around. That requires skill, for sure, but it's not what we do. This isn't really modern self-defence either, as the techniques weren't developed for that kind of context. You can find more details at the school wiki, which also has pictures and videos! If you're interested in this sort of thing, there's a bunch of schools all over the world, there might be one in your town as well. I know for sure that there are schools in America, Britain, Germany, Sweden and Singapore. I can also answer questions to the best of my ability, but I am still very much a beginner. Some videos: One of the basic drills: http://youtu.be/1Dc9s21EDkI Various possibilities for dealing with dagger strikes: http://youtu.be/9Q8D4KdesZ0 A short match: http://youtu.be/l-yjrFw-OiE
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Aug 15, 2012 18:05
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There's a fencing thread?
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Aug 15, 2012 19:59
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So I started Muay Thai about two months ago - and a week ago I got into trying out some of the BJJ classes offered at our gym too. I love it. Got my Gi and all! I like that on Tuesday and Thursday I can basically warm up/practice for 20 minutes on some bags. Do 1 hour of drills/instruction for Muay Thai then directly jump into the BJJ class for another hour of drills/instructions/rolling. Thanks to this thread for giving me the interest to drop Wing Chun and hit MT/BJJ and feeling better about myself than I have in pretty much all my 20s!
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Aug 15, 2012 20:00
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Thoguh posted:There's a fencing thread? It's in Punchsport Pagoda, for some reason.
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Aug 15, 2012 20:17
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Guilty posted:I focus on the eyes to see how I'm doing throughout the match. Same, my first trainer insisted on this and it never left my brain. It also helps because as the fight drags on often your opponent will get tired and lazier and end up giving themselves away with their eyes. If that makes sense. You can keep a good eye on their body movement at eye level without a problem. I can probably understand the shoulder/chest thing though too.
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Aug 15, 2012 21:04
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I've been taught to focus on the upper body mainly cause it's good for reads, and when people fake it's usually just with the limbs, not with the body. I think the idea is just not to get mesmerized by someone waving their hands around.
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Aug 15, 2012 23:30
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