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PoptartsNinja posted:There's nothing wrong with the gyros. Well beatings can be evenly distributed between the armor makers and the gyro makers. Those gyro makers probably did something wrong even if they weren't at fault! On that note, it always seems that whenever I play Battletech any TAC to the center torso inevitably hits the gyro. More mechs need to use heavy-duty or compact gyros in the future! Despite having poo poo for firepower, I love mechs like the Archangel or the modern Xanthos purely on the fact that compact gyros + compact fusion engines make them the most insanely frustrating designs to kill.
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Aug 14, 2012 07:31
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Picard Day posted:Well beatings can be evenly distributed between the armor makers and the gyro makers. Those gyro makers probably did something wrong even if they weren't at fault!  A Gyroscope is by default a delicate device... they should still be beaten, but not to punish, but to make them create heavy duty gyros faster.
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Aug 14, 2012 07:53
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Nah, armored compact gyros. Same weight, much safer.
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Aug 14, 2012 08:10
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Picard Day posted:Well beatings can be evenly distributed between the armor makers and the gyro makers. Those gyro makers probably did something wrong even if they weren't at fault! Best solution: Create a Machina Domini machine. That means you don't have a gyro. You can actually rip out the gyroscope and save the crits and tonnage for more guns and armor. And, you know, basically -2/-2 on all gunnery/piloting rolls and a total immunity to pilot damage outside of the head being blown off by an AC/20. (Also if you eject you can run around at 30 km/h in your awesome power armor shooting people with your machine gun that shoots deadly needles that are ON FIRE).
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Aug 14, 2012 09:27
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God drat the Word of Blake got dumb.
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Aug 14, 2012 09:29
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paragon1 posted:God drat the Word of Blake were always dumb. Hate to do the "fixed" thing, but yeah, they always were. loving factory planets that were pulled out of their rear end with tech from fleeing clan wolverine who had no reason to side with comstar or the protoWoB at all. It all is kinda stupid. gently caress the Jihad.
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Aug 14, 2012 09:59
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I don't know, I have a weak spot for fanatical zealots that utilize superior technology.  Edit: Well, in fiction, that is.
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Aug 14, 2012 12:01
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Lava cannons. Nothing else need be said.
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Aug 14, 2012 14:47
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paragon1 posted:Lava cannons. Wrong. One more thing needs to be said. Energy Shields. (Though I will admit the Lava Cannons are the more absurd of the two...)
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Aug 14, 2012 15:33
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paragon1 posted:Lava cannons. Yeah, but do the lava cannons also deliver pyroclastic rocks filled with bees? Huh? (And are the Clan versions of the lava cannon doing less damage because the lava only has half the heat?)
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Aug 14, 2012 16:02
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Narsham posted:Yeah, but do the lava cannons also deliver pyroclastic rocks filled with bees? Huh? Clans don't get any delicious WoB tech, Ever.
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Aug 14, 2012 16:28
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Axe-man posted:Hate to do the "fixed" thing, but yeah, they always were. WoB was a massive Deus Ex Machina in order to get to the MW:DA timeline. ComStar was a bit fuzzy with the whole Tukayyid and 40 divisions, but at least there was a 'Gathered over many centuries, oh and we lied about the shape of the Terra Factories' component. Not the 'Massive increase in forces over 5 years' of WoB.
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Aug 14, 2012 16:43
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Taerkar posted:Not the 'Massive increase in forces over 5 years' of WoB. That nobody detected or knew about even though they were using companies in the Free Worlds League to help them. VVVV Wizkids released clickytech (which is fun). Wizkids needed to make clickytech more independent of the fiction. Wizkids set clickytech about 70-80 years in the future and made allusions to 'bad poo poo.' Now that the tabletop game's timeline is catching up to clickytech, they have to actually justify that bad poo poo. I honestly don't mind the Word of Blake et all, even though I'm not a big fan of the Jihad. They needed something to shake up the status quo and the Word of Blake (and Republic of the Sphere) were it. My only real concerns with the Jihad come from my issues with 'shaking a tree just to see what falls out', and the lack of character-driven stories. We only vaguely know what the motives of the Wobbies were, and they basically come across as a bunch of super-powered five year olds throwing a temper tantrum and breaking everyone else's toys. Really, I just think the Jihad was kinda unnecessary. The Inner Sphere could've gone to hell on its own without an outside influence / jihad / whatever. All it would've taken was a new Free Worlds League civil war, considering they came THISCLOSE to nuking the hell out of themselves in the last one (no, seriously. Unless I'm misremembering a book I haven't read in ten years, Paul Masters saves Thomas Marik's life by machine-gunning a jihad jeep with a nuke in it) and boom, suddenly everyone's throwing nukes around again! PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 18:50
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PoptartsNinja posted:That nobody detected or knew about even though they were using companies in the Free Worlds League to help them. I never read much beyond the "Twilight of the Clans" series. What was the deal with WoB? I always assumed that they were something that Myndo Waterly kept hidden under her skirt that went rogue after her death and teamed up with the FWL to take over the Inner Sphere. I assumed that the Dark Ages happened because the efforts of the 3050's generation were eventually undone and the Inner Sphere battered themselves into an even deeper technological hole. I had no idea that FASA went quite that apeshit with the WoB.
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Aug 14, 2012 19:01
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Zeroisanumber posted:What was the deal with WoB?
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Aug 14, 2012 19:27
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Back when the Star League fell, Jerome Blake started up a secret society mystique to get people to keep their mouths shut then his successor turned Comstar into full on Space Masons. Comstar was trying to secularize after the Clans showed up. WoB are the religious fanatics who didn't like that.
dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 19:30
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ComStar's recruitment practices: 1) Fund bandits to make peoples lives miserable. 2) Find any resulting psychopaths / sociopaths / serial killers. 3) Offer psychopaths / sociopaths / serial killers a job (kill them if they refuse). 4) Control with religion. Take away #4, and you've got a bunch of very confused people who thought God was talking to them through their lance commander. Edit: There's a reason why, what, 80% of ComStar yelled "SURPRISE, WE'RE REALLY WORD OF BLAKE!" when the Jihad started. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 19:36
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PoptartsNinja posted:That nobody detected or knew about even though they were using companies in the Free Worlds League to help them. For the games that I run I take the approach that the Fed Com civil war explodes outward and draws in all of the states. A Fifth Succession War is hardly an unbelievable thing in the setting. You don't see the same setback of technology this time, but rather a Balkanization of the various regions even further. The CapCon actually comes out the most intact.
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Aug 14, 2012 19:38
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The Jihad was easier. The downside to having the Inner Sphere shake itself apart in a enough to allow the creation of the Republic in natural manner is that self-destruction takes a lot of time and effort. It was easier to just give the real Thomas Marik a fancy hat and an army of Super The joke is thatthe real Thomas Marikis actuallyThe Master.That's right: the Mariks are more insanity-prone than any Liao. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 20:07
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Agreed, it very much was an easy way out approach. And that was the general attitude towards it when the whole Dark Age stuff broke back in... 2002 I think?
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Aug 14, 2012 20:18
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PoptartsNinja posted:The Jihad was easier. The downside to having the Inner Sphere shake itself apart in a enough to allow the creation of the Republic in natural manner is that self-destruction takes a lot of time and effort. You forgot the whole "You are just my puppets and destroying me you have created what I wanted all along, mwahahahah!" Republic of the Sphere
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Aug 14, 2012 20:28
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So the Jihad was a mechanism to reboot the story line or just a prelude to the Dark Age which was the reboot? 
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Aug 14, 2012 20:34
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PoptartsNinja posted:The joke is thatthe real Thomas Marikis actuallyThe Master.That's right: the Mariks are more insanity-prone than any Liao. Which The Master are we talking about here? The one from Manos: The Hands of Fate, the one from Doctor Who, or a different one entirely?
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Aug 14, 2012 20:54
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I kind of liked the jihad it cleared the deck of all the 90 year old mech warriors who were running around and reduced some of the sheer insanity of the "clan era" Battletech. Killing off all the old guard like Jaime Wolf, Morgan Kell and Theodore Kurita etc etc cleared the space to allow a new generation of characters to shine. The problem was twofold though firstly the method they used to do it was dumb as hell the WoB pulling a huge army out of its collective backside was implausible and smacked of a deus ex machina. Secondly while they cleared the deck of the old guard they did not introduce any even vaguely interesting characters to replace them. Go on I challenge you to name three interesting characters from the dark age fiction. I can think of only two Ezekiel Crow and Tassa Kay I would struggle to name any more than that were actually characters I gave a crap about. Also another big problem was the dark age introduced a completely new way of playing the game. Now I am not familiar with how good or bad "Clickytech" was as a game but it pissed off the remaining Battletech veterans and it replaced a lot of the cool and iconic mechs we know and love with weird looking industrials with chainsaws.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:07
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Trast posted:So the Jihad was a mechanism to reboot the story line or just a prelude to the Dark Age which was the reboot? Yes. W.T. Fits posted:Which The Master are we talking about here? The one from Manos: The Hands of Fate, the one from Doctor Who, or a different one entirely? The first trying to be the second. Let's Play Battletech: We Can Blame it All on Myndo Waterly According to the timeline, he's also extremely dead now VVV The canon timeline. In my timeline, Thomas Marik's been very dead for quite a while. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 21:08
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PoptartsNinja posted:According to the timeline, he's also extremely dead now According to this timeline? Also how are the orders coming along?
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Aug 14, 2012 21:13
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PoptartsNinja posted:VVV The canon timeline. In my timeline, Thomas Marik's been very dead for quite a while. Can we have a special mission to dance on his grave?
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Aug 14, 2012 21:23
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Ferrosol posted:
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Aug 14, 2012 21:24
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Axe-man posted:Hate to do the "fixed" thing, but yeah, they always were. Just a few minor nitpicks - the "Hidden Worlds" of the Word of Blake weren't really factory planets (or actual planets at all for the majority.) The only real exception was the Ruins of Gabriel, which was basically a Star League Warfleet decommisioning ground/repair yard that had been hidden by radical element of C* and had a bunch of the old Warships the blakists found over hundreds of years as well as the ships that were already there. Similarly, the "hidden world" that was actually a planet in the FWL wasn't really a factory so much as a planet with a Blakist cybernetics lab and a low-tech and easily manipulated populace. It is implied that the other 3 were likewise primarily hidden research/superweapons labs and not "big factory planets." There are actually a few pretty nice sections in Jihad Conspiracies about this stuff - it is probably my favorite of the Jihad books for this reason (also because it kind of lets the whole INN angle down for a bit which was refreshing.) The actual amount of forces put out by the WoB wasn't really that ridiculous compared to the average size of forces held by most major factions at the start of the Jihad - the reason the Jihad was so effective at the start was a combination of HPG blackouts, interdicting key places like New Avalon, and following it up with false flag attacks to start the bush wars on the borders. As far was why the blakists started the Jihad - well, when you have a bunch of loosely related groups of religious fanatics who just got the big important prophecy they have been building up to for 600 years denied, some of them are probably going to lose it. After the bombardment of New Avalon/Tharkad and the accusations of nuclear attacks it would be tough for any WoB faction to try to extricate themselves from being tied in to the huge clusterfuck. EDIT - also I'm pretty sure it was the remnants of Clan Smoke Jaguar and had nothing to do with the Wolverines. I agree though that part was seriously dumb as hell.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:25
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Picard Day posted:As far was why the blakists started the Jihad - well, when you have a bunch of loosely related groups of religious fanatics who just got the big important prophecy they have been building up to for 600 years denied I'm pretty sure they just threw a tantrum because the New Star League broke up right when they were finally offered their own place on the council. They'd been building up to destroy the Clans still in the Inner Sphere as a celebration for being allowed to sit at the big kids table, only to learn that dinner was canceled forever. Wobbie plans before the Jihad: 1) Join the Star League Council 2) Kill the Clans 3) ??? 4) Profit Wobbie plans during the Jihad: 1) gently caress EVERYONE RAAAAARGH! PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 21:30
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Ferrosol posted:I kind of liked the jihad it cleared the deck of all the 90 year old mech warriors who were running around and reduced some of the sheer insanity of the "clan era" Battletech. Killing off all the old guard like Jaime Wolf, Morgan Kell and Theodore Kurita etc etc cleared the space to allow a new generation of characters to shine. The problem was twofold though firstly the method they used to do it was dumb as hell the WoB pulling a huge army out of its collective backside was implausible and smacked of a deus ex machina. Secondly while they cleared the deck of the old guard they did not introduce any even vaguely interesting characters to replace them. Go on I challenge you to name three interesting characters from the dark age fiction. I can think of only two Ezekiel Crow and Tassa Kay I would struggle to name any more than that were actually characters I gave a crap about. You have it rear end-backwards. The problem with the Jihad is that it didn't do a good job of clearing the deck of the existing major characters. Jaime Wolf and Teddy K died, yeah, but there's the bigger problem: it's 3090 now and Victor, Kai, Phelan and Hohiro are still running around and have to be involved in everything. Meanwhile they killed off a bunch of newer characters who, at the end of the FCCW, seemed positioned to move up and be the next batch of major players as the universe transitioned to the next major conflict. I mean, for gently caress's sake, Morgan Kell doesn't even die until after Terra falls, and it's of old age. That's how bad a job they did at removing the major characters while meanwhile killing off a ton of newer secondary characters for no real reason. Also, "while they cleared the deck of the old guard, they did not introduce any even vaguely interesting characters to replace them" is a complaint that can be levied on the Clan invasion just as easily, but that's because the Superfriends are all complete tools.
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Aug 14, 2012 21:54
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How to bring about the Republic of the Sphere without the Word of Blake: 1) High levels of post-war tension between the former Federated Commonwealth spark constant border disputes; Skye is extremely angry that the new Archon is still too obsessed with the Clans to properly protect them from the 'Davion Menace.' Terra is raided by both sides. 2) Adam Steiner's constant antagonization of the Jade Falcons prompts strong military reprisals all across the periphery. 3) The Taurian's current leadership dies and is replaced with a young man raised on anti-Davion propaganda. He orders an immediate attack on the Capellan March. Nukes are deployed. Yvonne Steiner-Davion is too weak-willed to do anything about it, prompting a new generation of New Syrtis / New Avalon tension. 4) Victor quietly encourages Yvonne Steiner-Davion to promote pro-Davion insurgents all across Tikonov because he's pissed that his BEST FRIENDS FOREVER Kai is being held virtually captive by the Capellans. 5) Sun-Tzu Liao holds his poo poo together, but Tikonov has as many pro-Davions as pro-Liao so he's forced to enlist help from his periphery neighbors to put down the brushfires. The Tikonov natives resent these 'foreign mercenaries' and soon anti-Mercenary fervor sweeps the entire Capellan Confederation. 6) The warlords of Alshain and Dieron get angry about some minor social slight and kill each other with swords, throwing the Draconis Combine's border with the Clans in disarray. Alshain district's troops launch another unprovoked assault on the Ghost Bear Dominion prompting yet more Clan reprisals. 7) Kokuryu-Kai successfully assassinate Theodore Kurita within a few weeks of the above. 8) The new, untested Warlord of Dieron declares himself the new Coordinator of the Draconis Combine. The other district warlords follow suit plunging the Draconis Combine into a civil war. 8) Thomas Marik dies in his sleep at 70, nobody ever learns he was a ComStar plant. 9) His successor is extremely weak. Andurien rebels again. The Waco Rangers recover nuclear weapons while helping put down the rebellion in Andurien and immediately launch a nuclear attack on Outreach, killing millions. 10) poo poo goes to hell. Nukes fly. Warship production is destroyed again. Insurgents cripple `Mech production across the Inner Sphere. 11) The Wolves resume the Clan Invasion, since they weren't bound by the refusal war. Only the ComGuards and the ARDC oppose them. All sides are decimated. At least one ComGuard division abandons the campaign to return to Blakist Terra. 12) The Word of Blake starts seizing some of the worlds around Terra, trying to create a Hegemony of Blake and create a buffer zone to protect them from attack. Any factory they can't seize, they sabotage or raze. 13) End result? Everyone is fighting everyone, just like back in the 3030s! It also gives some new people an opportunity to shine (hopefully). ... Anyway, there's a reason why the writing I'm doing for BattleCorps of late has focused on the Star League era. I'm really not a fan of the Jihad, even though I think Catalyst is doing the best they can with the cards WizKids dealt them. Edit: Also, only waiting on the Raven. Double-Edit: And I need an update from the Cataphract. You can't run in the same turn you use reverse movement. Triple-Edit: Also, H3 made an impossible move last turn because I was tired. I'm not repositioning it, but I am knocking its move mod down to a +3 PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 14, 2012 |
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Aug 14, 2012 22:50
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For some reason, I don't associate the rational, logical progression of international factors into the course of history with Battletech. At all. That said, I'd have liked to see that scenario play out.
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Aug 14, 2012 23:12
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Battletech should have a metaplot reboot and do it L5R style where major storyline decisions are determined by the results of tournaments.
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Aug 14, 2012 23:26
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PoptartsNinja posted:How to bring about the Republic of the Sphere without the Word of Blake: While this WOULD make more sense and be more palatable, we wouldn't get to see the pantsless leader of the WoB standing on a platform as nukes and orbital bombardment fly. And a world without that is a world I'm not sure I want to live in.
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Aug 14, 2012 23:40
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DarthXaos posted:Battletech should have a metaplot reboot and do it L5R style where major storyline decisions are determined by the results of tournaments. Warhammer 40k did that back in the day. It ended up leading to things they had to justify that made absolutely zero sense, and weird times where victories would be negated by other victories in the same round. From what I recall reading there was a point where the Imperial Guard were facing down Chaos for control of a planet/system. Chaos assigned most of their victories to the planet, IG assigned most of their victories to the System. So Chaos won the planet and then it was ruled that because IG won the surrounding space they then just bombed it from orbit and took the planet anyway. Stupidity abounds.
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Aug 14, 2012 23:42
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DarthXaos posted:Battletech should have a metaplot reboot and do it L5R style where major storyline decisions are determined by the results of tournaments. Didn't Warhammer 40k try that once but backed off after the Chaos players coordinated and obliterated the other side? Then again, 40k is basically all about preserving the stalemate. I'm just worried that the creators would use their veto power liberally if the chips fall where they don't like. Did not see Zaodai's post before I posted.
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Aug 14, 2012 23:53
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Didn't Warhammer 40k try that once but backed off after the Chaos players coordinated and obliterated the other side? Then again, 40k is basically all about preserving the stalemate. I'm just worried that the creators would use their veto power liberally if the chips fall where they don't like. At GenCon, one of Stone's indistinguishable bland lackeys ate something like 41 head hits. Didn't die though.
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Aug 14, 2012 23:55
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Didn't Warhammer 40k try that once but backed off after the Chaos players coordinated and obliterated the other side? Then again, 40k is basically all about preserving the stalemate. I'm just worried that the creators would use their veto power liberally if the chips fall where they don't like. I think what actually killed it wasn't when Chaos players metagamed to force victory at one location (they just put it in the fluff that it was a Black Crusade), but when Ork players called a Green Kroosade. The Ork players just decided to showup wherever Orks being there would gently caress up the system the most and making things most confusing.
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Aug 15, 2012 00:29
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PoptartsNinja posted:
Sweet Jesus, you may have single-handedly convinced me to get a BattleCorps subscription. Also, tangentially related to the whole writing-plot-via-gencon thing, which of the authors allegedly used to just play CBT and write up his games as the action sequences? I'd like to say Coleman but I'm not sure.
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Aug 15, 2012 00:39
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