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mcvey posted:No one should get a pass for racism, brah. Joey Diaz saying crazy poo poo is his charm.
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Aug 16, 2012 20:02
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-Atom- posted:Joey Diaz saying crazy poo poo is his charm. Joey Diaz telling ridiculous stories is his charm, spouting ridiculous racist remarks is the exact opposite of charm.
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Aug 16, 2012 20:08
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Who gives a poo poo? What's the solution here?
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Aug 16, 2012 20:19
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Cromulent posted:Who gives a poo poo? What's the solution here? Yeah. Just sit back and wait for the laughs. If it really upsets you, don't listen. Joey Diaz having racist opinions doesn't make you a racist for listening. And everybody has lovely opinions on one thing or another and if you're talking for hours upon hours like Joey Diaz does on the podcast, eventually one comes out.
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Aug 16, 2012 20:35
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You guys are right with not worrying about it, I just lost a lot of 'respect' for him after he blindsided the podcast with his little rant. Now I'm going to listen to the Kilstein episode and get even angrier 
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Aug 16, 2012 21:16
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mcvey posted:You guys are right with not worrying about it, I just lost a lot of 'respect' for him after he blindsided the podcast with his little rant. He's a hilarious, positive dude most of the time now but it's good to also remember that he did kidnap someone with a machine gun. Obviously he's a different person now, but I mean, you probably shouldn't agree with anyone on 100% of poo poo anyway, unless they are Duncan.
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Aug 16, 2012 23:40
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DerbyTime!!! posted:Duncan. *Inhales helium* bhagavad gita, man!
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Aug 17, 2012 02:45
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Joe Rogan: "Rape is the new human being" Love this silly bitch
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Aug 17, 2012 16:01
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The best bit about the Kilstein episode was Joe's Remark that "dumb people don't know their dumb, that's what makes them so dumb". It was gloriously ironic and reminded me of this scene from The Wire. Oh, and I agreed with everything SSJ2 Goku Wilders said. Seriously, shouting "MURDER IS WORSE THAN RAPE?! MURDER IS WORSE THAN RAPE? REALLY?" completely misses the point. No wonder Kilstein was dumbstruck. That's saying nothing of Redban's idiotic interjections such as "I'd rather be raped than murdered, seriously!". People are intimidated by Joe's ultra-alphaness and never truly call him out, Kilstein was cowed and completely dumbstruck. I'd love Joe to argue his case against someone who doesn't let the loudest guy win (a trait Joe himself often criticizes in others).
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Aug 17, 2012 17:08
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To be fair to Joe, Jamie told his point TERRIBLY that even I was agreeing with Joe. Jamie tries to say he is a comedian but he doesn't seem to understand that some comedians have no bounadaries. I don't even like Tosh but the joke was funny. Because it was a joke, to a heckler. gently caress hecklers.
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Aug 17, 2012 17:30
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It's pretty sweet how having "no boundaries" is a-okay when it comes to subjects like rape, but put Kramer on stage screaming "niggers", and it's a disaster for the entire profession.
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Aug 17, 2012 17:39
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the difference is tosh made an impromptu joke about rape after being heckled, while kramer was just shouting "niggers" like a moron. joe is a total meathead, but killstein is exactly what joe hates: a "human being", or a weak man; a pussy. i just took it as jamie trying to get some attention from a situation by interjecting himself into it without really thinking it through. and i guess he succeeded, because he got on tv because of it. i'm not sure how old he is but he came off as rather immature.
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Aug 17, 2012 18:03
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This isn't a defense of Kramer, by the way, but he also had his outburst in response to being heckled. The biggest difference is in your perception of racism as opposed to rape, not how gracefully or not the person on stage chose to be a loving moron.
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Aug 17, 2012 18:07
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no one told kramer to start talking about niggers, but someone told tosh to start talking about rape, so he did. kramer just "went off the rails and into the woods" and started shouting about niggers.
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Aug 17, 2012 18:14
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Well, if someone put a gun to his head and forced him to be a shithead, I guess that changes everything
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Aug 17, 2012 18:16
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wolfbiker posted:no one told kramer to start talking about niggers, but someone told tosh to start talking about rape, so he did. kramer just "went off the rails and into the woods" and started shouting about niggers. Would you honestly view the situation differently if someone had suggested Kramer make some jokes about niggers before his outburst?
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Aug 17, 2012 19:10
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Bohemian Nights posted:Well, if someone put a gun to his head and forced him to be a shithead, I guess that changes everything We get it man. You are on the high horse. I personally don't find rape jokes funny, I don't find using friend of the family funny, but I don't get uptight about it because there are situations where it could be funny. In Tosh's case, from all accounts I've heard, he was asked to make jokes about rape, and he started on like "What's funny about it, I don't know the humilation, the powerlessness, etc" and she said there is nothing funny about rape. If he pulled the "Wouldn't it be funny if like 5 guys raped her right now?" I would've laughed. It's ridiculous. He isn't wishing her to be raped. It's just silly. He was highlighting what isn't funny about rape. Kramer on the other hand, is just a lovely stand up and wasn't even making a joke. He was just screaming friend of the family over and over. He was a lovely stand up and freaked out because he didn't know how to react to a heckler. And Joe wasn't going alpha, he is just a comedy lover. He thinks it is wrong to tell comics what is funny and what is not. He hangs around with Redban, Duncan and Bert for gently caress's sake. CortezFantastic fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Aug 17, 2012 |
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Aug 17, 2012 19:13
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CortezFantastic posted:We get it man. You are on the high horse. I personally don't find rape jokes funny, I don't find using friend of the family funny, but I don't get uptight about it because there are situations where it could be funny. In Tosh's case, from all accounts I've heard, he was asked to make jokes about rape, and he started on like "What's funny about it, I don't know the humilation, the powerlessness, etc" and she said there is nothing funny about rape. If he pulled the "Wouldn't it be funny if like 5 guys raped her right now?" I would've laughed. It's ridiculous. He isn't wishing her to be raped. It's just silly. Yep. And people seriously need to stop giving a gently caress about what comics say on stage. Very few comedians are interested in making their comedy into strong social commentary like George Carlin, let alone being capable of it. Most are just trying to earn some money while making you laugh, and the majority have really dumb and offensive opinions like the rest of the world.
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Aug 17, 2012 19:27
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Bubba Smith posted:Yep. To an extent this is true, but it's also true that just saying the words artistic expression doesn't make it less awful when some privileged gently caress tries to hide behind a nonsense freedom of speech argument or condescending 'get a thicker skin, person who isn't a straight white male' stance.
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Aug 17, 2012 19:45
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DerbyTime!!! posted:To an extent this is true, but it's also true that just saying the words artistic expression doesn't make it less awful when some privileged gently caress tries to hide behind a nonsense freedom of speech argument or condescending 'get a thicker skin, person who isn't a straight white male' stance. But I don't even think it's artistic expression, since I'm saying the majority of stand up comedy isn't even "art." It's just dick and fart jokes and personal experiences. Very few comics are actually great writers and thinkers. It's silly entertainment filled with a lot of scumbags and weirdos. I just don't understand the outcry when a comic says something stupid or socially offensive, since it's to be expected.
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Aug 17, 2012 20:21
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W.r.t. rape jokes: quote:Choose not to be part of a rape-supportive environment. Rape jokes are not jokes. Woman-hating jokes are not jokes. These guys are telling you what they think. When you laugh along to get their approval, you give them yours. You tell them that the social license to operate is in force; that you’ll go along with the pact to turn your eyes away from the evidence; to make excuses for them; to assume it’s a mistake, of the first time, or a confusing situation. You’re telling them that they’re at low risk. I also don't buy the reactionary poo poo that goes 'well whatcha gonna do about it!!!'. All progressive struggle starts somewhere. That there's not yet a wide enough of a movement to combat it does not mean that effort against it is meaningless.
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Aug 17, 2012 21:08
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Bubba Smith posted:But I don't even think it's artistic expression, since I'm saying the majority of stand up comedy isn't even "art." It's just dick and fart jokes and personal experiences. Very few comics are actually great writers and thinkers. It's silly entertainment filled with a lot of scumbags and weirdos. I just don't understand the outcry when a comic says something stupid or socially offensive, since it's to be expected. You don't have to understand it, you just have to respect that your subjective point of view is not the only one and is not automatically correct by default. Words are powerful and using them carelessly is for fuckheads.
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Aug 17, 2012 21:10
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DerbyTime!!! posted:You don't have to understand it, you just have to respect that your subjective point of view is not the only one and is not automatically correct by default. I don't know where in that you got "my opinion is automatically correct by default." That sounds more like what you're doing to be honest, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you. DerbyTime!!! posted:Words are powerful and using them carelessly is for fuckheads. A few posts up you said it yourself that Joey Diaz is a funny guy but he's also an ex-con. Many, many other comedians have a very similar story of being funny guys but also have troubled pasts. They aren't really "good" people to begin with, so a lot of their comedy will be hosed up. It's just how it is. Bubba Smith fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Aug 17, 2012 |
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Aug 17, 2012 21:44
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I dunno man, I never grew up dealing with any poo poo except maybe getting a couple of shopkeeps stare at me longer than they should have because I'm Mexican. I still enjoy straight male privilege and am aware of that. I'm just going to have to trust that it really does sting when people make gay jokes and stuff, but I've heard Mexican jokes all my life and at the most I've rolled my eyes. Is the argument here that comedians making these jokes are perpetuating a frame of mind and validating it? I guess I can kind of see that, but man I have a hard time understanding how it can seriously affect your life when you can just dismiss it. They're not passing policy. Man I don't know, I'm trying to be sympathetic, and I can't really tell anyone not to feel bad about stuff, and I don't care about it either way enough to defend it. People are fuckin dumb and I'm sorry that you have to deal with it, but is this the hill we're dying on?
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Aug 17, 2012 21:59
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Bubba Smith posted:I just said that people take comedy too seriously, since most comics don't even take their own acts that seriously. They're just up on stage trying to make people laugh. I'm just allowing for the fact that because something does not offend me, and it offends someone else, that doesn't make me right and them wrong. I don't personally get offended by very much at all, and I don't think I have any right *not* to be offended. I just don't think that I have the right to tell other people to take words less seriously and if I were to do so it would probably be a gross unawareness of many different kinds of privilege. Ethically I don't think it's a black and white thing by any means, and of course comedians should feel free to talk about any topic they feel like, but if it's done without a sense of compassion/understanding for the people who are actually affected by the words you're choosing to use, it makes you an rear end in a top hat. Not all assholes are unfunny, but sure, it's a bummer when you find out that someone who you think is hilarious is also an rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 17, 2012 22:21
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Basically the only people who really believe that Daniel Tosh thinks that 5 people actually should have raped that woman are rapists. People with horrible opinions about doing rapes don't pick up on how ridiculous the punchline of a joke is and laugh at that, they just think "hmm yes, it would be funny if 5 people actually raped this woman right now" and laugh at how funny it would be to them if that woman was actually getting raped by 5 guys. I could write more words but basically: "The Chris Rock 'Black People vs Niggers' bit" Tim Selaty Jr fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Aug 18, 2012 |
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Aug 18, 2012 00:34
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Joe seems to have a stick in his rear end about 'alternative comedians'. What/who the hell is he talking about, anyway? I've always figured that alternative comedy was comedy that people do in bars rather than comedy clubs (so like... Patton Oswalt and Eugene Mirman and stuff)
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Aug 18, 2012 05:37
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Thought maybe he meant subtypes of comedy, like prop comedy or musical comedy or something, but apparently he's probably talking about : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_comedyWikipedia posted:Alternative comedy came to describe an approach to stand-up comedy that was neither racist nor sexist but free-form and devised by the performers themselves. Apparently it's mostly just comedy that's outside of the mainstream of its time, but according to that page, it's spawned comedians like Eddie Izzard and Jimmy Carr, so it obviously can't be all bad.
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Aug 18, 2012 06:04
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Bohemian Nights posted:It's pretty sweet how having "no boundaries" is a-okay when it comes to subjects like rape, but put Kramer on stage screaming "niggers", and it's a disaster for the entire profession.
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Aug 18, 2012 07:02
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Bohemian Nights posted:Thought maybe he meant subtypes of comedy, like prop comedy or musical comedy or something, but apparently he's probably talking about : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_comedy  Joe doesn't like being reminded that he uses sexism as a crutch and it's lazy comedy e: vvv it's not at all 'perfectly acceptable' to say what he said. That's why he apologized. Do you think Daniel Tosh of all people would apologize to some random lady if he thought it wasn't hosed up what he said? I'm trying hard not to Kilstein-out here because suggesting that it's perfectly acceptable to say that in some circumstances rape is 'great' is a pretty out-there fringe position and that's putting it excessively kindly. Tosh didn't seem to me like he was bowing to corporate pressure either, so I think he'd agree. You're arguing based off of an assumption that he doesn't mean what he said in his apology because you assume he agrees with you. I don't think he does agree with you, but maybe that's just my general tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt getting out of control. DerbyTime!!! fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Aug 18, 2012 |
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Aug 18, 2012 14:54
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Bohemian Nights posted:This isn't a defense of Kramer, by the way, but he also had his outburst in response to being heckled. The biggest difference is in your perception of racism as opposed to rape, not how gracefully or not the person on stage chose to be a loving moron. The biggest difference is Tosh's joke was funny. Shouting "Look it's a friend of the family!" like Michael Richards if it is a joke, isn't funny. But he also didn't have to the need to apologize like he did. What he did is perfectly acceptable to do to hecklers, it just wasn't funny.
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Aug 18, 2012 17:23
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So I found this perusing Rogan's message board. I don't really go there often because it's a haven for idiots but every once in a while there will be something good. Someone posted a rundown of Kilstein's thoughts on the argument on his Citizen Radio podcast and Rogan eventually responded to it. Looks like Kilstein isn't going to be on Rogan's podcast anytime soon. http://wearecitizenradio.com/2012/08/16/20120816-jamies-triumphant-return-plus-trapwire-and-swearing-allegiance-to-tom-hardy/ quote:This might have been done already but here are the cliff notes to Jamie's response to the podcast. I'm gonna try and not put my own spin on it and not become the Tosh blogger. Joe Rogan posted:So Jamie distorted the truth of the conversation on the podcast and talked poo poo on his.
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Aug 19, 2012 16:44
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There's nothing of value to Rogan that Kilstein can contribute to the Joe Rogan Experience. Listening to the first 10 minutes of the EVERLAST episode, my original thoughts on Rogan's positions have only been reinforced. Kilstein and Rogan said at the start of the show that they were 'friends'. I'm dumbfounded that a relationship between people with such obviously different moral points of departure could have lasted as long as it did. Kilstein's possible future absence from the invitation list should come as a surprise to no-one.
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Aug 19, 2012 17:14
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The Tosh situation would've been different if he hadn't made clear that rape is never funny before making that impromptu joke. Comparing it to Kramer is really, really dumb and a sign that even Joe Rogan's podcast might be too complex for you. At least Rogan showed that he 'got' Tosh before rating murder and rape on his universal scale of evilness.
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Aug 19, 2012 17:16
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Paul Pot posted:The Tosh situation would've been different if he hadn't made clear that rape is never funny before making that impromptu joke. Comparing it to Kramer is really, really dumb and a sign that even Joe Rogan's podcast might be too complex for you. At least Rogan showed that he 'got' Tosh before rating murder and rape on his universal scale of evilness. If you'd actually read my post and what I'm referring to when I "compare" it to the Kramer thing, you might have been able to spare yourself the effort of making a Bad Post.
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Aug 19, 2012 17:25
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SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:Kilstein and Rogan said at the start of the show that they were 'friends'. I'm dumbfounded that a relationship between people with such obviously different moral points of departure could have lasted as long as it did. A lot of friends usually drop the argument, "agree to disagree" and never really talk in depth about that kind of stuff anymore. The problem with this is they're scheduling 3 hour conversations so avoiding talking about stuff like this is going to be difficult. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kilstein try to do that but Rogan kept on the subject? I really don't want to listen to an hour or more of that argument again. Also, Rogan's not exactly an intellectual beacon on sensitive social issues.
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Aug 19, 2012 17:31
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Chromatic posted:A lot of friends usually drop the argument, "agree to disagree" and never really talk in depth about that kind of stuff anymore. The problem with this is they're scheduling 3 hour conversations so avoiding talking about stuff like this is going to be difficult. I recognize what you're saying and it's a common occurrence, agreed. But Rogan is... he's not your run of the mill swing voter that gets distracted by rhetoric, the type of dude that can still be approached reasonably and shown the error of his ways. I'd like to think there's a difference... eh e: and yes the whole podcast setting makes Kilstein a weird choice if Rogan knew in advance that this guy was an Occupy 'socialist-y' social justice kinda dude. And yeah, if I'm understanding you correctly then yes, Kilstein kept dropping arguments and failing to make a coherent point because he conceded way too early and way too much in his political game. That was part of the reason that NewtG00nrich called him a liberal / effete on the last page. SSJ2 Goku Wilders fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Aug 19, 2012 |
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Aug 19, 2012 17:35
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Jamie and the guy who invited Joe to join his lovelution should hold each other until they cry themselves to sleep. There would have been disagreement either way but I think if Jamie was upfront and didn't collapse like a washcloth they would have been able to agree to disagree. We wouldnt have the drama of Jamie revealing how he really felt once he was safe and sound. Joe is definitely stubborn/not too perceptive so he's probably surprised, which is why he feels the truth was bent.
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Aug 19, 2012 17:55
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SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:I recognize what you're saying and it's a common occurrence, agreed. But Rogan is... he's not your run of the mill swing voter that gets distracted by rhetoric, the type of dude that can still be approached reasonably and shown the error of his ways. I'd like to think there's a difference... eh Rogan doesn't strike me as the type of guy who reacts well or modest when someone or something challenges his views, especially his core beliefs. If anyone has any information or any clips to rebuke my thoughts on that, I'd gladly take a look at them. quote:e: and yes the whole podcast setting makes Kilstein a weird choice if Rogan knew in advance that this guy was an Occupy 'socialist-y' social justice kinda dude. I don't think that's fully the case. Kevin Pereira was 100% pro-occupy wallstreet and even told Rogan he was designing an app for it. The app was a twitter kind of thing where you can send info to others with the app for information about meet-ups and things of that nature. Rogan commended him on it and told him it was a great idea. It was somewhere on this podcast. No idea where though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmTSqdvy038 quote:And yeah, if I'm understanding you correctly then yes, Kilstein kept dropping arguments and failing to make a coherent point because he conceded way too early and way too much in his political game. That was part of the reason that NewtG00nrich called him a liberal / effete on the last page. Well, I mean Kilstein obviously looked uncomfortable throughout the whole argument and said along the lines of "well I mean, you think what I'm saying is lovely, I think what you're saying is lovely" and said "agree to disagree" several times. Rogan should have just said "fair enough" and steered the conversation somewhere else after the first time Kilstein said that. It goes back to my theory of Rogan not taking someone challenging his beliefs that well. My opinion though. Chromatic fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 19, 2012 |
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Aug 19, 2012 18:03
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SSJ2 Goku Wilders posted:If I were to talk to this guy about social policy I'd first have to make him concede an exception in his view for, like, the mentally challenged, the disabled etc. This dude basically advocates social darwinism and he should be called on it. This is why I think that Kilstein came across as powerless and just let it all slide: he'd have to go into the very foundation of Rogan's belief system to make even a dent. I didn't see this earlier but wanted to say how right you are on this. Rogan seriously advocates social darwinsim and it's one of the things that why that while I really enjoy his comedy and his podcast(depending on the guest), I don't really respect him as a person. I'm paraphrasing, but when he, Rich Vos, and Ari hosted an episode of Opie and Anthony, he said "The only way the human race is going to evolve and get off this planet for better prosperity is for all the weak people to die off". That's a really weak and disgusting thing to believe and I really hope that if he had a relative who had a mental condition or god forbid one of his kids not being totally healthy he wouldn't believe such a vile thing. Like I said, it's not an exact quote and it's been 2 years since I've listened to it but that's the gist. Edit: Found the show here. No idea where the quote is because I don't want to listen to the whole thing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMtd39WmmHo Chromatic fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Aug 19, 2012 |
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Aug 19, 2012 18:31
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