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Rashomon posted:I agree that a lot of "realistic" plays can err towards the boring and mediocre, and I applaud you for erring in the direction of the interesting. The point is, though, they are both errors. I guess my question is, what is it about the guy-and-the-prostitute story that just screams "this doesn't need to be in a conventional and easily understandable storytelling structure"? Usually, except in rare cases of the best writers like Tony Kushner, Edward Albee, Caryl Churchill, many of the absurdists, etc., weird structural poo poo is code for "this story isn't interesting if it's told conventionally, but maybe if I tell it in a REALLY SUPER COOL NEW WAY I can trick people into thinking it's good!" I am not accusing you of being in that category, but I have seen things that really do approach it that way. My thought for the play, and chiefly its structure, is that it would take place entirely inside this guy's apartment or within his actual plays. The "real" interactions (the prostitute part posted here) would be basic realism, but they would be interrupted/balanced by the more abstract stories this guy was writing (literally played out on stage, as I can't imagine audiences would be interested in watching him read them). My thinking here is that the subtext of the realistic scenes would be illuminated/juxtaposed/contradicted by the writer's plays. There's also probably some of the doubt/worry that you alluded to, that "the real parts won't be interesting enough." But anyway, to expound further, you might see him reacting to the suicide of his brother (the thing that which the play revolves around primarily) in a subdued, uncaring manner, but then see this explosion of emotion and heart and feeling within a play dealing with said suicide. That juxtaposition was what I was aiming for with the prostitute/sperm/john+jane thing but obviously it didn't come off that way. Clearly I could be clearer  The writer's (hero's) journey would be from despair and complete disconnection to some sort of emotional understanding (or even sharing). The play's main theme would be the lack of emotional forwardness in modern American society, and the dangers of a family/country that never says what it actually feels. The structure would be sort of like Huckleberry Finn's (the apartment scenes being the river parts, and the plays being the inland episodes in this simile). It's sort of like The Pillowman's structure too, now that I think about it.That was my thought, anyway. I don't even know if that could work, but in any case I seem to have heavily favored the absurd over the real to a degree that I didn't intend (probably due to me being severely nonplussed about realism in a way that isn't healthy for a writer!). e: and I really liked the rest of your post, this is just the part I needed to respond to  Actually responding/defending that excerpt made the play much more clear in my head, and kinda made me want to write more! Maybe I should!de: And yeah you would eventually learn about this guys past and what led him to his current state. I actually liked that you thought "he exists alone in a sea of nothing" - because that was kind of what I was going for, but I also think that the realism was not clear enough in that section to juxtapose it against the fantasy of the plays. T-Bone fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Jul 16, 2012 |
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Jul 16, 2012 07:40
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Also, remember that "realism" doesn't really mean what we've been saying in this context -- in the theater, "realism" was a really specific movement in the late 19th/early 20th century. And part of why that theory was rejected is because it just doesn't hold up. No matter how hard you try, dialogue in a play is always shaped by an authorial voice (among other things). So, congrats -- there is no more reality necessarily in "realism" than in the strangest nonsensical play. Characters that exist without context can certainly be effective (see: Vladimir and Estragon) but you sure as hell have to make sure what they're doing right in front of us is compelling and active in a way that we don't care about what we don't know and are still interested in the future. In a way, past events ARE unimportant to a play, except insofar as they are an engine to drive the action FORWARD. Another thing I just remembered: probably the best book I've read on dramatic structure is Backwards and Forwards. It's really smart and amazingly concise (like, 100 pages). I highly recommend it.
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Jul 16, 2012 20:02
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Backwards and Forwards also gets my nod. I read it a full year ago and still recall how it critiques Hamlet.
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Jul 17, 2012 00:54
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They've got it at my school's library. I'll check it out.
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Jul 17, 2012 01:45
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So as long as we're talking about script writing, I have a question. Where is a good place to start? Do you start with the setting or the plot or do you start with the theme and messages? I've been trying to write a few scripts now but I always get stopped partway because I don't know how it all comes together.
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Jul 18, 2012 03:18
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MildManeredManikin posted:So as long as we're talking about script writing, I have a question. Where is a good place to start? Do you start with the setting or the plot or do you start with the theme and messages? I've been trying to write a few scripts now but I always get stopped partway because I don't know how it all comes together. Different strokes for different folks. What kind of plays are you trying to write? What kind of plays do you like to read/see?
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Jul 18, 2012 03:44
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If there are any New Yorkers thinking about seeing something in FringeNYC this year but overwhelmed by the 200 options, I directed a play that's opening this weekend. PM me if you want info!
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Aug 9, 2012 00:37
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Pious Pete posted:I've played banjo for a few pieces, but don't really have the know-how for composition. Mostly just picking patterns/chord progressions. Still, sounds cool. I'd be down to listening to some audio if you post it here. Do you still have those plays available? If you could send copies to captainlfuzzy at gmail dot com, I would appreciate it! Thank you!
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Aug 15, 2012 17:45
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MildManeredManikin posted:So as long as we're talking about script writing, I have a question. Where is a good place to start? Do you start with the setting or the plot or do you start with the theme and messages? I've been trying to write a few scripts now but I always get stopped partway because I don't know how it all comes together. Ultimately, it comes down to whatever idea came first. Or at least the idea that made you want to write the story in the first place. It can be anything really. Plot, setting, character, idea, genre, macguffin, some combination of, etc. Just pick the one most important to the story you want to tell, and work out from there. If you decide you want to write something set in your hometown, come up with what it is about your hometown you want to convey. What you've seen, what you think is interesting, what misconceptions people have. More times than not, patterns in thinking will emerge, and themes will develop naturally, just by virtue of the story being from your perspective. If you get the theme first, do the same thing. Think of all the aspects of that theme, and find the ways to best represent them in a narrative. What place, time, people, etc. Then you can refine everything so it actually feels living, and all your motifs feel organic in the story. Once you have your seed, and you come up with everything that's interesting about that seed, you'll have a solid base you can build off of. Your list might even look like a really bare bones outline in and of itself. A good next step is to come up with your ending. At least where you want your story to go, or what your main characters are working towards. That'll help focus your story, since it'll provide an idea how everything should tie together. Once you've got acts one and three, two becomes a matter of filling in the blanks.
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Aug 20, 2012 03:21
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Hey cool that's pretty much what I did once I was no longer busy, now I've just got to force myself to do the brute work and hammer out the rest. I am 90% sure I am writing the shittiest thing but I don't care. Unrelated to playwriting, the show I've been doing tech for recently is phenomenal but the work I've had to do was terrible, mostly due to a lovely venue. This is community theatre so I guess it's expected but christ man I was working 15 hours one day. One guy worked 16 hours that day. A literal slave gets better hours for the same wage.
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Aug 20, 2012 06:55
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Since I do community theater, I put in hours like that every so often for literally no money. It's just the reality of things. You don't do it because it's profitable and easy, you do it because you don't have any choice in the matter. It wouldn't surprise me at all if in five years I wasn't at least trying to do theater full-time. I work a pretty cushy office job with hours that make the theater stuff easy to do, but I am increasingly feeling that urge clear down in my bones to just throw myself into this 24/7. I'm probably just being an idiot, but then again I don't live an expensive lifestyle and don't have any kids or a terrible harpy of a wife anymore, so why the hell not?
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Aug 20, 2012 17:35
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Oh yeah it's the life, but it's still silly. Actually I can't justify to people why I do what I do since this is just a hobby for me and I currently have no plans for making a career out of it.
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Aug 20, 2012 20:53
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MildManeredManikin posted:Hey cool that's pretty much what I did once I was no longer busy, now I've just got to force myself to do the brute work and hammer out the rest. I am 90% sure I am writing the shittiest thing but I don't care. Eh... if piece sucks, just pick out the things you liked and start over. Not gonna lie, most of my writing consists of bits and pieces of other, crappier things I've written. MildManeredManikin posted:Unrelated to playwriting, the show I've been doing tech for recently is phenomenal but the work I've had to do was terrible, mostly due to a lovely venue. This is community theatre so I guess it's expected but christ man I was working 15 hours one day. One guy worked 16 hours that day. A literal slave gets better hours for the same wage. Community theatre will kick your rear end if you're working tech. Local here is actually an old re-purposed movie theater, so it's extremely unfriendly to live theatre. Stage is too small, extremely limited room in the wings, no set shop what so ever (all set pieces have to be constructed on stage), and no place to store set pieces not currently in use other than the balcony. Carrying flats down a narrow staircase is always fun. But hell, I still do it.
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Aug 20, 2012 22:43
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CaligulaKangaroo posted:Eh... if piece sucks, just pick out the things you liked and start over. Not gonna lie, most of my writing consists of bits and pieces of other, crappier things I've written. Well I think the important part right now is that I learn to work on something to completion. I'll become more concerned about quality when I've got more practice writing. Also currently I'm just writing for myself. It would be cool to stage something someday though. You know I'm really surprised this thread isn't more active. You'd think that there would be a huge overlap between goons and techs at least.
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Aug 21, 2012 00:52
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Abortion is yummy. posted:Do you still have those plays available? If you could send copies to captainlfuzzy at gmail dot com, I would appreciate it! Thank you! Just sent, along with some extras!
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Aug 21, 2012 01:06
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MildManeredManikin posted:You know I'm really surprised this thread isn't more active. You'd think that there would be a huge overlap between goons and techs at least. There are a few techs around here. I am starting grad school next week for lighting design. Like you said though, theatre is long days. That's not going to change if you move beyond doing community productions so sometimes we are just too busy to post. I am going into production on 9 shows in the next 9 months with rolling openings and generally do 15 to 16 a year just to make a living.
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Aug 21, 2012 01:16
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MildManeredManikin posted:You know I'm really surprised this thread isn't more active. You'd think that there would be a huge overlap between goons and techs at least. There's a handful of us here, yeah. Just not a lot of talking shop, I guess. I'm always afraid of starting a conversation that applies to, like, two of us and sort of co-opting the board. And yes, even in professional theater, tech is incredibly time demanding. I was lucky enough to get in with a LORT A theater shortly after college, and we still do 15-hour days for two to three weeks before tech week on some productions. Plus when the hours actually fall don't get significantly better. One of the spaces in town here had a crew of 6 audio guys that worked 80-hour weeks when they were in their heyday.
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Aug 21, 2012 04:41
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MildManeredManikin posted:
I've been busy with uni and stuff, which means I forgot to mention that my debut play (as in thing I wrote) wrapped a two-week season at the end of last month. Audience response was really good - the high school/uni student audiences seemed to get the language and the feel of the piece off the bat and really enjoy it, which was great - and according to the Programme Manager for the festival it was commissioned for, we did pretty good houses, so I'm really stoked. Most of the reviews were pretty positive too, though the first review (from a 60-something self-appointed godfather of local theatre criticism) was an absolute pan, which was both a bit sobering and a bit hilarious given some of the points of attack the review took (at one point it criticised the play for not having any moral characters, which was a bit  ). Still, it was an amazing experience and now I'm working with a small group prepping a show for next February, using the same semi-devised process and all that. Really excited.
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Aug 21, 2012 13:48
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MildManeredManikin posted:
I did tech for about 10 years and then moved into corporate/special event end of things. I would dearly love to go back to building scenery again but the lure of money is pretty strong. I also am realizing that I am being passed by as more and more automation stuff is being used in sets. This spring I worked for a few weeks in a college shop to help a friend out and I was blown away at how much fancy stuff the kids were being taught. I never learned computer drafting and I think that would be a real roadblock to getting back into shop work.
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Aug 21, 2012 21:26
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I'm still a student so my actual work is still squat but I haven't done anything since scenic design last spring. We didn't build any actual sets but we muddled around in Vectorworks a whole bunch and built two models (for Box & Cox and Chicago, where my ambition got the better of me and I wound up with a gargantuan monster that barely fit on the stage). I've been doing tons of sketches but nothing really finished (lots of ideas, though - a Hamlet that unpacks out of a pageant wagon, The Homecoming on a forced-perspective set, a clump of coups de théâtres like wind blowing the Loveland confetti at the audience during the chaotic finale of Follies) until now, since I've got a bunch of free time I've sat down and started designing Cabaret. Since I don't actually have Vectorworks I'm doing the model by hand (I even had to draw a ruler from the guidemarks on my cutting mat) but I think it's coming along pretty nicely. There's one aspect to it that makes me feel clever, a donut revolve that's set half-backstage so it carries props, set pieces, characters in and out through glittery curtains. One moment I stole from Merrily We Roll Along - after the brick comes through the window in Act II Schneider suddenly grasps Schultz in fear and they freeze. The vamp for If You Could See Her starts and the Emcee and his gorilla come in through the opposite curtains as the stage turns pink. Sometimes I think I have a knack for this, but sometimes I think I'm kidding myself. Also I'd love to see more activity in this thread. I'm always thinking about theatre but I never have anyone to talk to about it (also you guys all seem like such hardy professionals it makes me feel lame). A few weeks ago I had an opportunity for cheap tickets to Einstein On The Beach in Berkeley and for some reason I balked, and now I'm beating myself up. Maybe someone will do a really good bootleg.
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Aug 23, 2012 10:13
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Also I'd love to see more activity in this thread. I'm always thinking about theatre but I never have anyone to talk to about it (also you guys all seem like such hardy professionals it makes me feel lame). A few weeks ago I had an opportunity for cheap tickets to Einstein On The Beach in Berkeley and for some reason I balked, and now I'm beating myself up. Maybe someone will do a really good bootleg. I go back and forth on Wilson all the time. He was the subject of a major research project I did in college, and while some of his stuff was incredibly compelling (Einstein being one) some of it is very hard to swallow as an actual piece, and its more the meta-experience that Wilson seems to care about. I don't know that I agree with all his philosophies. Plus the man himself is a real piece of work, from what I gather.
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Aug 24, 2012 19:33
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I've seen little enough of his work that he's still enormously compelling in a mysterious way (I think the entirety of his Shakespeare Sonnets is on Youtube, it's pretty great). Unfortunately he's the kind of creator whose work is of its time, it kind of exists there as a moment and then it's gone forever (except in the case of Einstein). I mean, the chances I'll ever get to see something like A Letter for Queen Victoria are pretty much zip. Maybe it's just the ideas that are attractive; would I really enjoy all twelve hours of The Life and Times of Joseph Stalin, probably not but Philip Glass's anecdote about seeing it with his friend, a cheesecake, and a thermos of coffee sure makes me want to. I guess I'm just damned to go around collecting scraps of these things until I'm buried in them like a Beckett character. edit: I really hope people accidentally parse that as Philip Glass having a cheesecake for a friend. Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Aug 24, 2012 |
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Aug 24, 2012 20:03
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Magic Hate Ball posted:edit: I really hope people accidentally parse that as Philip Glass having a cheesecake for a friend. I feel like you've just begun writing a David Ives piece.
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Aug 27, 2012 06:03
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code:-A soldier comes home from the war to his family, who, over the course of the play, gradually forget who he is even though he's fully present, and then corner him one by one to unload their personal issues, which are violent and sexual. -A guy overwhelmed with life decides to go to sleep forever, which causes petty bickering amongst his family, friends, and debtors when his condition disrupts their lives. Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 08:50
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I despair at the state of Irish theatre. I'm not sure if this is a uniquely Irish phenomenon or not but we seem to be stuck in a rut with what plays we bring to the theatre and how we present them. The main theatres in Ireland stick to the same tried and tested plays, mainly from Sean O Casey, and always, ALWAYS perform them the same way. Period dress, stock mannerisms, you know the drill. Any minor changes a director might make results in a backlash so strong you might think they had replaced, say, Willy Loman, with Bozo the Clown in a production of Death of a Salesman.
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Aug 31, 2012 15:52
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Penile Dementia posted:I despair at the state of Irish theatre. I'm not sure if this is a uniquely Irish phenomenon or not but we seem to be stuck in a rut with what plays we bring to the theatre and how we present them. The main theatres in Ireland stick to the same tried and tested plays, mainly from Sean O Casey, and always, ALWAYS perform them the same way. Period dress, stock mannerisms, you know the drill. Any minor changes a director might make results in a backlash so strong you might think they had replaced, say, Willy Loman, with Bozo the Clown in a production of Death of a Salesman. That's amusing to me in an unfortunate way. The artistic director of our largest theater in town has a lot of ties to the Gaiety and he's exactly the same way when he directs. He does branch out beyond Irish playwrights though.
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Aug 31, 2012 18:49
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Penile Dementia posted:replaced, say, Willy Loman, with Bozo the Clown in a production of Death of a Salesman. gently caress, I'd watch it.
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Aug 31, 2012 22:42
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HEY FOLKS. I recently started working at City Theatre in Pittsburgh and my ticket perks have kicked in. I get four comps per show and half-off any tickets I want to buy after that. If you're ever in STEEEEEEELER NATION and want to see something, lemme know far enough in advance and I'll help HOOK YOU UP. There's also a sweet arcade not far from the theatre called "Games N'At" where you pay by the hour for unlimited cabinet use. I would gladly waste time with anyone there and talk shop. You can find the season here or email me at onionfarmer5 at gmail dot com. I'd especially encourage anyone who's interested to come and see our production of Maple & Vine. We're doing it in the round (ish) and I'm assistant directing on that show. I also just got the script for another off-broadway mailed to me. It's called "Dead Metaphor" and I have a lot of beefs with it, but if anyone feels like reading it and starting a dialogue I can forward along the pdf. MORE IMPORTANTLY, I've come into possession of a digital copy of the script for Martin McDonagh's upcoming film, "Seven Psychopaths." I wrote my thesis on McDonagh and was lucky enough to stumble across a copy while talking to a few film folks. Again, if you want to read it in advance, just drop me a line. It's absolutely dripping with Tarantino and I love it.
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Sep 1, 2012 17:31
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Oh my god please send me the McDonagh script, he is my favorite living playwright
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Sep 2, 2012 19:28
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OSheaman posted:Oh my god please send me the McDonagh script, he is my favorite living playwright Gotcha covered. Just sent.
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Sep 2, 2012 20:49
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CaligulaKangaroo posted:
Mine was originally designed as a stage theatre, still had all those features and the mostly original 1911 hemp rigging system. I am actually working at another theatre that's pretty darn old and has a hemp, but here we use trim clamps and sandbags and I couldn't be happier with it. What I loved most about my community theatre was the living theatre history in action. Flats from the 1920s that still saw regular use, these weird old lights that had the body of an ERS but the lens of a fresnel and so on.
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Sep 3, 2012 08:25
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Penile Dementia posted:I despair at the state of Irish theatre. I'm not sure if this is a uniquely Irish phenomenon or not but we seem to be stuck in a rut with what plays we bring to the theatre and how we present them. The main theatres in Ireland stick to the same tried and tested plays, mainly from Sean O Casey, and always, ALWAYS perform them the same way. Period dress, stock mannerisms, you know the drill. Any minor changes a director might make results in a backlash so strong you might think they had replaced, say, Willy Loman, with Bozo the Clown in a production of Death of a Salesman. I don't know if it's uniquely Irish, but it spreads each and every level of Irish theatre- I once nearly got mashed in the face by Stephen Rea in full rant about how The Shaughran at the Abbey was completely wrong because the Shaughran was wearing green and everyone knows that the Shaughran wears a red coat, that's how it's done. (Heavenly Bodies at the Peacock was pretty awesome, though, but Stewart Parker is in general)
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Sep 3, 2012 13:23
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Can anyone point me to something to read or watch to learn how to direct? I'm directing for the first time, and while I have acted etc. before, I am not really sure what approach to take. Broadly, I would like to let acctors be in control of the blocking and stuff, and use like the socratic method for them to figure out their characters.
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Sep 9, 2012 18:50
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Read stuff by English guys named Peter such as Peter Hall's book "Exposed by the Mask" and "The Empty Space" by Peter Brook. And read their other books if you have time. Also read the David Ball book that I mentioned earlier on this page, "Backwards and Forwards." Read "Towards a Poor Theater." If you like Viewpoints or want to learn about them, read Tina Landau/Anne Bogart's book, it's one of the few real "schools" of creating work that has a style and method of training that directors actually learn. (I'm not into it myself, but a lot of people are). That's good for a start.
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Sep 10, 2012 00:42
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Rashomon posted:Read stuff by English guys named Peter such as Peter Hall's book "Exposed by the Mask" and "The Empty Space" by Peter Brook. And read their other books if you have time. Also read the David Ball book that I mentioned earlier on this page, "Backwards and Forwards." Read "Towards a Poor Theater." If you like Viewpoints or want to learn about them, read Tina Landau/Anne Bogart's book, it's one of the few real "schools" of creating work that has a style and method of training that directors actually learn. (I'm not into it myself, but a lot of people are). That's good for a start. Those may be a bit heady if you're directing for the very first time. Backwards and Forwards is great and pretty accessible, but Empty Space and Towards a Poor Theater are more theoretical and not for someone who is looking for a foundation in directing. The rest I can't speak for. I can't think of the name offhand, but I know I encountered a solid book that discusses composition, picturization, status and levels, action verbage and motivational directing, that kind of stuff. I'll do some looking and see if I can land on what it was.
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Sep 10, 2012 00:46
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If he had never worked in the theater before I'd agree with you, but he says he's acted before as well as "etc." so I assume this isn't his first time to the dance and he knows in general what goes into making a play. "Towards a Poor Theater" is the most complicated of the things I listed but it's very episodic so I don't think most people would have trouble understanding it, since it comes in pretty small bites. I'm not aware of any "basic directing 101" books that have any value, but if you remember the one you are thinking of definitely post it, I'd love to check it out. Directing is mostly taught through oral tradition ("this is what people do"), mentorship, and on-the-job training. The reason I listed the Viewpoints book is because that is an actual school of "here is a full method of how to create work" that people actually subscribe to, as opposed to most other books on directing which is just directors saying "this is what I like to do".
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Sep 10, 2012 00:57
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Rashomon posted:words True enough. I'm still looking for the title of the book; I'm very quickly feeling that it may be out of print. My knee-jerk reaction advice though, semicolonsrock, is that unless you have exceptionally experienced and conscientious actors, you can save yourself an immense amount of headache and time if you do NOT let the actors define the blocking. It will help a lot to come in to rehearsals with at least a semi-structured idea of what you envision the blocking to be, and then be open to actor input. It takes a number of times directing to really find what works for you and how best to work with actors, so there will be some fumbling at times, but the clearer a concept you have, the more creative the fumbling will be, rather than frustrating. All the books Rashomon suggested are highly recommended as well and will give you a lot to think about, as well as some practical methods for use in rehearsal. But, having acted in a large handful of shows where the actors were given a lot of freedom on determining the blocking: YOU are the only one who will have a truly well-rounded understanding of the entire play. In fact, your role in the production demands that you do. A group of actors, no matter how good, are only really cognizant of their involvement. They can't see the bigger picture by virtue of how they contribute to the play. YMMV of course.
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Sep 10, 2012 02:54
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semicolonsrock posted:Can anyone point me to something to read or watch to learn how to direct? I'm directing for the first time, and while I have acted etc. before, I am not really sure what approach to take. Broadly, I would like to let acctors be in control of the blocking and stuff, and use like the socratic method for them to figure out their characters. http://www.amazon.com/The-Directors-Craft-Handbook-Theatre/dp/0415404398 This provides a step by step guide on how to direct a show with many very good suggestions and will give a nice foundation. It's technique based instead of theory based, and is very practical. There will be time to study the art of directing later, for now just focus on the technique. I love the books suggested, but seriously, Jerzy Grotowski for a beginning director? edit: VVVV Not saying it's a difficult read, but for someone who has no experience directing, starting with Grotowski would be pretty freaking intense. r0ff13c0p73r fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 11, 2012 15:28
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"Towards a Poor Theater" is seriously not that hard to read, folks. The hardest part is trying to figure out how you should pronounce "Jerzy Grotowski".
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Sep 11, 2012 23:49
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That may be true but it still shouldn't be Babby's First Director Book.
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Sep 15, 2012 20:15
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