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MrFurious posted:Desensitization and counter-conditioning works to transform a negative stimulus into a positive(CC) or neutral(desensitization) one and requires no behavior whatsoever from the dog. You are supposed to know this. You use these to combat emotional response issues like fear and resource guarding to change the emotional response. That's not the goal here. But using CC (and progressing on to Look At That games) can be very helpful in cases of excitement-based reactivity to teach the dog to check in with the handler, rather than immediately trying to interact with the dog. If the dog is frustrated at not being able to greet now, then CC/LAT would begin to teach impulse control, whereas BAT could possibly exacerbate frustration if the dog was unable to get to the point of calmly approaching another dog. Surely CC/LAT, then moving on to BAT, would be better here?
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Aug 17, 2012 18:16
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ButWhatIf posted:Okay, I'll bite. Why wouldn't it be as simple as D&C? I don't see any particular reason why reactivity requires anything other than "see a dog, get a shot of dopamine to the brain." BAT doesn't utilize dopamine consistently, so it literally isn't forging neural pathways consistently like D&C, so you're basically clicking blanks by not following up with a biologically relevant reward. I've only seen anecdata; I'd like to see it formally studied. From a practical standpoint, though, I prefer BAT because I think it's more likely for a handler to consistently use - particularly because you can fade food earlier. Aggressive behavior (or in this case hyperactive displays?) releases dopamine as well, so one walk where you forget or run out of treats and you can set yourself back with D&CC. That's incredibly frustrating for the typical owner, and it's why most times you hear 'I tried that and it didn't work'.
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Aug 17, 2012 18:44
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Fraction posted:But using CC (and progressing on to Look At That games) can be very helpful in cases of excitement-based reactivity to teach the dog to check in with the handler, rather than immediately trying to interact with the dog. If the dog is frustrated at not being able to greet now, then CC/LAT would begin to teach impulse control, whereas BAT could possibly exacerbate frustration if the dog was unable to get to the point of calmly approaching another dog. Surely CC/LAT, then moving on to BAT, would be better here? Disagree. If the dog can't perform adequately, then the animal is over threshold and you need to reduce the level of the stimulus, whether through volume, distance, whatever. It's no different than if the dog couldn't take treats in basic CC.
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Aug 17, 2012 19:03
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ButWhatIf posted:BAT doesn't utilize dopamine consistently, so it literally isn't forging neural pathways consistently like D&C, so you're basically clicking blanks by not following up with a biologically relevant reward.
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Aug 17, 2012 21:21
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Malalol posted:I feel like this is dumb but...for a customer choosing between a prong and a shock collar, what would you suggest? Neither, obviously (yes I understand he was likely being a stubborn twat). I have many friends with strong pitties who use the New Trix head halter and it works wonders. It's a lot better than the Gentle Leader. I also keep hearing that the SENSE-ation harness is a bit better than the Easy Walk.
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Aug 17, 2012 23:28
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rear end Crackers! posted:Hey guys, hopefully this hasn't been beaten to death yet, but I have a quick question about reactivity on walks. My dog Thor positively flips his poo poo when we pass other people/dogs. He is super friendly and just wants to go play, but it's obviously not good for him or for us. So, question: How do I go about teaching him to ignore other walkers/dogs in yards? As soon as I see someone coming do I just stop and cram treats down his throat till they pass? Is there a certain cue I can give him so he knows what we're doing? I imagine I should start it either right before or right after he notices someone coming. Passing dogs in yards might be harder because it's us that has to move, I can' just stop until they've passed. He's otherwise a dream to walk, he's never even pulled. Help!
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Aug 17, 2012 23:41
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Rixatrix posted:Increased distance from a perceived threat is very much a relevant reward. I'm also not sure why access to what is the most reinforcing handler-controlled reinforcement for the dog at the moment (e.g. gaining distance from threat, like is usual in BAT) wouldn't trigger the release of dopamine in the brain. For land-based mammals, there are 4 primary biologically relevant reinforcers: food, water, sex, and shelter. Any behavior that is in aid of achieving one of those things is going to trigger the release of dopamine in the brain. IF the retreat from another dog is consistently paired with the giving of a primary reinforcer (ie food), then yes, it becomes a conduit for the release of dopamine. Also, frustrated greeters don't see another dog as a perceived threat, just a (entertainingly enough) huge frustration that they just can't deal with.
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Aug 17, 2012 23:47
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ButWhatIf posted:Also, frustrated greeters don't see another dog as a perceived threat, just a (entertainingly enough) huge frustration that they just can't deal with. It may be BAT isn't the best approach for the person asking for help with their dog, but I can't see how seeing a BAT-savvy trainer would hurt. They're likely to be +R/-P and fluent in other methods of training as well. Whose terminology are you using? To me a primary reinforcer is anything that is immediately reinforcing for the dog. It doesn't need to fit one of your categories of "biologically relevant reinforcers" (e.g. play, getting to "go for a run" or whatever). Not arguing just to be contrary, I just find -R is underappreciated and underutilized in training. Rixatrix fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Aug 18, 2012 |
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Aug 18, 2012 06:11
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Rixatrix posted:Sure. BAT is usually used when dealing with fear/aggression/anxiety, so it does "utilize dopamine consistently" like you put it. Retreat from a threat is very much a behavior in aid of gaining shelter. With a fearful/reactive dog, I find it easy to see how retreat can be more "relevant" than food. Fear activates the sympathetic nervous system and puts the body in the jittery flight-fight-mode. This is not readily compatible with some other activities such as eating, which is associated with a parasympathetic activation. Since the fearful animal is already in a state of fight-or-flight, flight to me seems more "relevant" at that moment than food. I'm using the ethological definition of primary reinforcement that is agreed upon by CAABs. Removal of a stressor doesn't cause the secretion of dopamine, just the relief of that stressor's removal. Food bypasses the amygdala and sends a shot of dopamine straight to the system. I would argue that if a dog is too stressed to allow the handler to administer that dopamine-laced treat, the dog has reached (in my opinion) an unacceptable level of anxiety and it is no longer in a state where learning can take place efficiently. This is my main beef with R- training, not that it's "inhumane" or "unethical," but that it just isn't as efficient. Studies have been published by the Journal of Applied Animal Behavior Science that examine cortisol levels and how it affects a dog's ability to learn, and it is universally agreed that the higher a dog's anxiety level, the less it is able to learn.
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Aug 18, 2012 18:44
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ButWhatIf posted:This is my main beef with R- training, not that it's "inhumane" or "unethical," but that it just isn't as efficient. Studies have been published by the Journal of Applied Animal Behavior Science that examine cortisol levels and how it affects a dog's ability to learn, and it is universally agreed that the higher a dog's anxiety level, the less it is able to learn. I find this conversation to be very interesting and I'm going to weigh in, but be warned that I am not an expert in neuroscience, I just have my own experience. I have been working with a very reactive dog for almost two years now. Until 2.5 months ago, I spent all of my time working with her using the usual food-based techniques to change her emotional response while under threshold. 2.5 months ago, I switched my techniques and started reserving food for operant training rewards (which we still use a ton in reactivity work, eye contact and such) and instead I now use pressure-on, pressure-off techniques where she is rewarded by a release of pressure when she does a behavior that is appropriately "frontbrain" instead of "hindbrain" (for example: calming signal instead of barking). In doing this, I have made more progress with her by far than in the year+ of work we did previously. She is not only gaining the ability to do the things that I ask her to do (stay frontbrain), her body language indicates she is happier. Her emotional response is changing and much more efficiently than before. So I agree that, in the face of how counter-conditioning and desensitization should work, this is puzzling. And I think the key, at least with my dog, is that I am fighting two things. I am fighting her emotional response to stimuli AND the neural pathways that she has burned into her little brain by practicing "bad" behavior over and over (and seeing positive results, from her point of view). In essence, I am not just teaching her a new response, I am trying to write over old habits, which are arousing and self-reinforcing. So even if the food I give her helps her out, it is far too easy for her to fall on old habits and is somewhat self-defeating since I would only be addressing one part of the problem. On the other hand, when I show her a new habit that 'works' by releasing pressure when I get a response that indicates she is more calm than before (which must be accompanied by some sort of chemical release), we make more efficient progress because her emotional response is changing AND she has good habits to fall back on. Whatever is allowing her to express that calm signal that I'm looking for and the accompanying relief at the release of pressure is stronger than her chemical response to food. Very interesting topic. I wish I knew how to express what I've been seeing in neurological terms.
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Aug 18, 2012 21:04
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ButWhatIf posted:I'm using the ethological definition of primary reinforcement that is agreed upon by CAABs. Removal of a stressor doesn't cause the secretion of dopamine, just the relief of that stressor's removal. Food bypasses the amygdala and sends a shot of dopamine straight to the system. Edit. What I see as the greatest merit in BAT is that it teaches self-control and self-soothing skills to the dog. I think it is worthy of consideration even in animal training that animals are also capable of a kind of metacognition if you will, instead of viewing them like input-output automata. I acknowledge that what we can objectively observe at the level of neuroscience is quite limited at the moment, but we can also look at behavior and the results of training. I think I'd like to see solid data on the effectiveness of BAT at least as much as you do. It's always a joy to see a pet hypothesis proven (wrong). Also, fear imprinting can be and often is single-event learning. I'm sure the associated cortisol levels are pretty high? Edit2. Thought about this a little more and didn't want to double post, so I edited again. Sorry. The way I see it is that an animal trainer should first and foremost be interested in behavior. Current neuroscience is pretty limited at explaining and predicting the intricacies of behavior, but this is ok. Figuring out what functions as efficient reinforcement is as simple as looking at behavior. The animal trainer is quite well off since she can look at behavior and analyze antecedents and contingencies. She can briefly try different things and see if she's getting more behavior. I feel there are problems with doing just DS&CC work with a reactive animal. The first is that DS&CC only is really boring for the trainer and not that many people will realistically do it for as long as is needed. The bigger issue with DS&CC only is that you still need to teach the animal an acceptable alternative behavior, or it will eventually revert back to what it knows best (i.e. reactive displays). I'm not dissing DS&CC work, but I no longer see it as being enough. Rixatrix fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Aug 19, 2012 |
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Aug 18, 2012 21:33
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My wife and I just moved to a new apartment complex and suddenly our two dogs (ages about 3 and 2, both male) have been fighting. They have fought occasionally before, but now it's serious and reliable. Anytime we get near the door with the leashes to go outside, the bigger wants to go outside first and takes a dominant posture and raises his hackles, growling low. The other dog will growl in response and I pretty much have to pull them apart. Even coming into the house, if one dog approaches first the other gets angry. The smaller dog now won't even come up the stairs if the larger is with us because he knows the larger will attack him outside the door. Since I have to take the dogs out several times a day, this is a big problem! During the fight the larger dog mounts the smaller one, it's absolutely some kind of dominance thing. Inside the house they never bother each other at all, and lie together fairly happily, but around the door they both just go nuts, and it's pretty much instigated by the larger dog. I'd rather not take them out separately forever as I'm on the 6th floor but it seems like that's what has to be done lately, but even so I don't want them fighting near the door. Any ideas what could be causing this and how to handle aggressive dogs? P.S. I can't buy a book because I live in China! Fall Sick and Die fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Aug 20, 2012 |
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Aug 20, 2012 15:08
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Fall Sick and Die posted:Since I have to take the dogs out several times a day, this is a big problem! During the fight the larger dog mounts the smaller one, it's absolutely some kind of dominance thing. no The dogs are fighting more because of the disruption in their routine. It sounds like the older dog is resource guarding. How exactly do you react to them when they do this? Are they both the same gender? It's probably time to find a behaviourist.
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Aug 20, 2012 15:22
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I wonder if someone might have some advice on this. My dog is a generally obedient dog, I would probably describe her as "very trainable". Unfortunately aside from the basics (sit, drop, etc) I haven't really put much time into training her. This has had the unplanned side-effect that as soon as she sees a treat or food in general she sits or drops unprompted. This obviously makes it tricky to teach her anything else as she's sure that's what she's supposed to do for the food and gets confused when there's no pay off. So I'm wondering a) how I can get her to patiently wait for a command when she sees a treat and b) specifically I'd like to teach her to nudge a door shut on command. Any tips for either of these? For the door trick, how would I encourage her to push the door in the first place?
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Aug 20, 2012 15:23
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Wow I wasn't expecting such a large debate to originate from me! You guys kind of lost me in all of the acronyms, but honestly I can't afford a trainer atm, so I was hoping to lay some groundwork on my own. As far as the dog goes, it's not like he completely shuts down when he sees someone/thing, and I can redirect him with varying degrees of effort depending on how close we are to whatever set him off. I can start by walking along more quiet areas for now. He's a total food whore, so that's not a concern of mine. I think in my situation food will be the best distractor until I've got some groundwork done. Any suggestions on how to go about it? Any body cues etc I should look for?
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Aug 20, 2012 15:50
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Gnack posted:I wonder if someone might have some advice on this. My dog is a generally obedient dog, I would probably describe her as "very trainable". Unfortunately aside from the basics (sit, drop, etc) I haven't really put much time into training her. This has had the unplanned side-effect that as soon as she sees a treat or food in general she sits or drops unprompted. This obviously makes it tricky to teach her anything else as she's sure that's what she's supposed to do for the food and gets confused when there's no pay off. Luring with food and using a clicker when she does the new trick should help. Just shoveling food into her mouth and clicking with each treat should help her learn that she can get treats for things other than sit/down. We taught Orbit to close a door by training a hand touch (just hold a treat between your fingers and click when the dog touches their nose to your hand), then putting our hand on the door and having him touch, then teaching him to touch a piece of tape on the hand by the door, then moving the tape to the door.
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Aug 20, 2012 15:58
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Plus_Infinity posted:Luring with food and using a clicker when she does the new trick should help. Just shoveling food into her mouth and clicking with each treat should help her learn that she can get treats for things other than sit/down. Great info - thanks!
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Aug 20, 2012 16:43
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rear end Crackers! posted:Wow I wasn't expecting such a large debate to originate from me! You guys kind of lost me in all of the acronyms, but honestly I can't afford a trainer atm, so I was hoping to lay some groundwork on my own. As far as the dog goes, it's not like he completely shuts down when he sees someone/thing, and I can redirect him with varying degrees of effort depending on how close we are to whatever set him off. I can start by walking along more quiet areas for now. He's a total food whore, so that's not a concern of mine. I think in my situation food will be the best distractor until I've got some groundwork done. Any suggestions on how to go about it? Any body cues etc I should look for? Avoiding dogs/people is likely to make the problem worse, not better. You'll be making those interactions with other dogs more rare and, therefore, more novel, which has the effect of increasing the level of the stimulus or, in this case, distraction. Start by playing the "Look at That!" game. You can find a detailed description in Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed. It's in one of the early chapters. Rather than give you detailed instructions on how to perform the game, I recommend you grab the book and read it yourself - she does an excellent job of explaining how and why this works and it'll build a foundation for you to apply to other situations.
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Aug 20, 2012 17:24
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Will do, thanks! I actually already have it, just never got around to reading through it.
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Aug 20, 2012 20:37
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So due to monetary problems, my aunt and cousin are moving in with us. She has a 3 year old JRT/Chi mix. The problem is that her dog doesn't like Feldman. Feldman just wants to play with her, but she growls, barks, and snaps at him when he tries. How do I get her to tolerate him? Not expecting them to be bffs, just some tolerance?
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Aug 20, 2012 20:39
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rear end Crackers! posted:Will do, thanks! I actually already have it, just never got around to reading through it. It's a great book, I really like Leslie McDevitt's training style. Grisha Steward's Behavior Adjustment Training book is the other things people were discussing. It is another excellent book. It's very thorough and is good about discussing how to manage issues while you're in the process of training too. Since I started using her methods in addition to CC/Ds on my dog has gotten much better at giving cutoff signals instead of immediately resorting to reactivity. I just wish she cited her sources about some things she said but that's something I wish a lot of trainers did  Fall Sick and Die posted:Since I have to take the dogs out several times a day, this is a big problem! During the fight the larger dog mounts the smaller one, it's absolutely some kind of dominance thing. Inside the house they never bother each other at all, and lie together fairly happily, but around the door they both just go nuts, and it's pretty much instigated by the larger dog. I'd rather not take them out separately forever as I'm on the 6th floor but it seems like that's what has to be done lately, but even so I don't want them fighting near the door. Any ideas what could be causing this and how to handle aggressive dogs? A good trainer would be really helpful in that situation. It sounds like your larger dog is getting overexcited or frustrated about going out and redirecting that onto the little dog. It really isn't a dominance thing, just an impulse control/overarousal issue. The more he practices this behavior the worse it is going to get. For the time being at least keep taking them out separately. How does the larger dog act when you are at the door with just him?
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Aug 20, 2012 21:10
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Bash Ironfist posted:So due to monetary problems, my aunt and cousin are moving in with us. She has a 3 year old JRT/Chi mix. The problem is that her dog doesn't like Feldman. Feldman just wants to play with her, but she growls, barks, and snaps at him when he tries. How do I get her to tolerate him? Not expecting them to be bffs, just some tolerance? I don't think that's all of the problem. The other part is that Feldman isn't socially aware enough to take 'gently caress off' cues from the other dog and persists in trying to play with her. If she's not taking the fight to him, I'd work more on getting Feldman to leave her in peace - that's the easier piece to fix. If she is taking the fight to him, I'd still work on his behavior, but also counterconditioning her to his presence slowly. Your job as an owner is to control the situation for her so that she never feels like she has to keep Feldman in line. They may never be best buds, they may never play together. But they should be able to coexist in a structured environment. So on Feldman's part, work on impulse control games like leave it or doggie zen, keep him well exercised, don't leave them alone together ever, distract him when he's looking to play with her, and be quick to separate them if he's too wound up.
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Aug 20, 2012 22:41
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Instant Jellyfish posted:A good trainer would be really helpful in that situation. It sounds like your larger dog is getting overexcited or frustrated about going out and redirecting that onto the little dog. It really isn't a dominance thing, just an impulse control/overarousal issue. The more he practices this behavior the worse it is going to get. For the time being at least keep taking them out separately. How does the larger dog act when you are at the door with just him? As I live in inland China, a great trainer isn't really an option. People here basically believe dogs are roving death machines valued slightly higher than garbage. For people to understand my dogs live in our house and sleep in our bedroom despite the fact that we have children... even rabies in Chinese is simply known as "crazy dog disease" and it's commonly believed that all dogs have it all the time and any contact can infect a person with it. Living here is pretty much hell for having a dog (both of my dogs were rescued from the street after abandonment). For instance, I wanted to get them neutered and the best "vet" we could find was aghast when we suggested that the dogs might need some kind of anesthesia while being operated on. Anyway, when I approach the door with my larger dog, he's happy and excited to go outside. The same with the smaller dog when we go out alone. But put the two together and it starts with the low growling, then if I don't distract them it can easily escalate. I can keep taking them out separately but I'm worried someone will trigger them close to the door. Maybe I could take a video of it, would that help someone to understand what's going on?
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Aug 21, 2012 01:54
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Fall Sick and Die posted:Anyway, when I approach the door with my larger dog, he's happy and excited to go outside. The same with the smaller dog when we go out alone. But put the two together and it starts with the low growling, then if I don't distract them it can easily escalate. I can keep taking them out separately but I'm worried someone will trigger them close to the door. Maybe I could take a video of it, would that help someone to understand what's going on? Is your wife able to help you manage the dogs? If she's around, I might try taking them both out, one of you walking each dog and not letting them touch each other. It will at least keep the situation from escalating and may help them get comfortable walking together. I agree with the poster who said it sounds like an overarousal or frustration issue, and that it will get worse if it is allowed to continue. It might help to know what (if anything) has changed in their routine due to your move. Did they used to get out more often? Have a bit more freedom to run either in a yard or even a larger building? Anything you think might be relevant. Another suggestion I might make is to make the routine of leaving the house very orderly. Start out teaching them separately, then eventually you can start working on it when they're together. Basically, put the dog in a sit and make him wait for you to open the door, step through and then let him follow (I usually do this by saying "okay"). If he starts getting over-excited (barking, growling, hackles up, that sort of thing) or gets out of the sit too early, don't punish but just close the door, put him back into sit and start over. Most dogs I've worked with get this very quickly and I've found it really helps with situations like that because it puts their attention on you, not each other. Plus I think it can help some dogs out of the "MUST BE FIRST!!!" mindset they can get, because they know they have to wait for you anyway.
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Aug 22, 2012 22:07
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Plus_Infinity posted:Luring with food and using a clicker when she does the new trick should help. Just shoveling food into her mouth and clicking with each treat should help her learn that she can get treats for things other than sit/down. To continue on this, I've managed to get her trained to nose the piece of tape on the door but I'm not sure how to impress upon her that she needs to push the door. Any ideas?
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Aug 23, 2012 13:57
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Gnack posted:To continue on this, I've managed to get her trained to nose the piece of tape on the door but I'm not sure how to impress upon her that she needs to push the door. Any ideas? Just wait. If your dog is the least bit drivey, she'll get frustrated and nose it harder, assuming you've done any reasonable amount of training in the past. Make sure the door is well oiled so it moves easily, then click for the movement. If she's nosing it consistently, just raise the criteria required to get a click until the door actually moves. Start with a tiny nudge, then step up from there.
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Aug 23, 2012 14:28
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Gnack posted:To continue on this, I've managed to get her trained to nose the piece of tape on the door but I'm not sure how to impress upon her that she needs to push the door. Any ideas?
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Aug 23, 2012 16:20
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My dog (9-month-old corgi mutt) is generally afraid of going for walks at night. She's fine within the immediate vicinity of my condo but once we get 50 feet away or so, her tail goes down and she gets pretty paranoid of noises/dark places/bridges over the fake creek/etc. She'll stop accepting treats so it's hard to countercondition. She doesn't totally shut down but she's skittish and occasionally stops sharply, or dashes nervously off the sidewalk. Right now I could conceivably just walk her when it's light out, but in a few months the days will be a lot shorter so that won't work. Our typical night-time walk is about 20 minutes of me walking her around everywhere, talking in an upbeat manner and giving her treats when she'll take them, then we go to a particular manhole cover in a parking lot where she can chase cockroaches. This cheers both of us up :P then we go home. Is there anything else I could be doing to help her get over her fears? A few scary things have happened at night, though not for a month or so: first a guy on a bike with a German Shepherd came rolling by suddenly in front of us, and two other times we saw raccoons, which were apparently Quite Terrifying.
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Aug 23, 2012 19:36
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Etheldreda posted:My dog (9-month-old corgi mutt) is generally afraid of going for walks at night. She's fine within the immediate vicinity of my condo but once we get 50 feet away or so, her tail goes down and she gets pretty paranoid of noises/dark places/bridges over the fake creek/etc. She'll stop accepting treats so it's hard to countercondition. She doesn't totally shut down but she's skittish and occasionally stops sharply, or dashes nervously off the sidewalk. Do you think maybe a wearable lamp (like a head lamp) that could light things up might help?
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Aug 23, 2012 21:08
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Etheldreda posted:My dog (9-month-old corgi mutt) is generally afraid of going for walks at night. She's fine within the immediate vicinity of my condo but once we get 50 feet away or so, her tail goes down and she gets pretty paranoid of noises/dark places/bridges over the fake creek/etc. She'll stop accepting treats so it's hard to countercondition. She doesn't totally shut down but she's skittish and occasionally stops sharply, or dashes nervously off the sidewalk. Do you have to walk her for her to eliminate, or are these exercise walks? The reason I ask is because if it isn't a potty break thing, I would probably try to get her exercise taken care of in daylight and then start just taking her to the fun manhole cover for awhile. Get to where she's really excited about going out at night to chase cockroaches, then start adding little detours on the way to the fun manhole cover (say, walk down to your neighbor's driveway before cutting over to the cover). Then start gradually adding more and more distance until you're going as long as you want. Alternately, depending on how far away this manhole cover is and how much she loves chasing cockroaches, you could start playing with her or giving her really high-value treats (cut-up warm hotdog is the go-to, but there are a lot of options) well within that 50-foot zone of your condo and then very gradually expand that. If you're finding it difficult to counter-condition her, it likely means that you're going too fast. I've had best results with starting where the dog is very comfortable and leave them wanting more. That bit is important. Don't feed her until she's full or play with her until she's tired--save that for daylight. Engage with her within her comfort zone for awhile, then maybe the first day you push it a little you only get 2 feet out of your yard. That's okay, it's something and every good experience will help overwrite the bad. You do have to read your dog pretty well though and walk a fine line between overdoing it and gently pushing her boundaries so she learns. If you do go too far, no worries, just back off and start again. My advice comes from the idea that she's just gotten spooked. Raccoons are scary for a puppy (hell they kind of scare me sometimes, those fuckers are smart and bitey and they are one of the species that tends to carry rabies), as is a giant dog and biker appearing out of nowhere, and dogs have good memories. The only reliable way I've found to fix it is basically to lay a ton of positive experiences over the negative ones.
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Aug 23, 2012 21:33
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2tomorrow posted:Do you have to walk her for her to eliminate, or are these exercise walks? I've been keeping exercise walks to the lighter hours except for a couple of times (like yesterday) when I was at work a bit late. The fun manhole cover is far enough away that there are some scary areas (where we saw raccoons) in between home and there, but I'll work on having better treats and spiraling outward instead of keeping going when she's scared, thanks! I want to work on it now while I don't technically have to exercise her in the dark, so that come winter we'll be OK. One of the two raccoon incidents was pretty scary for me too. We were crossing a bridge over the fake creek and all of a sudden she froze up and backed away. I looked down and there were three giant raccoons in the creek staring right at us and heading our way! Fortunately there are two different ways back to my place so we didn't have to wait around for them to leave or anything.
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Aug 23, 2012 23:10
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MrFurious posted:Just wait. If your dog is the least bit drivey, she'll get frustrated and nose it harder, assuming you've done any reasonable amount of training in the past. Make sure the door is well oiled so it moves easily, then click for the movement. If she's nosing it consistently, just raise the criteria required to get a click until the door actually moves. Start with a tiny nudge, then step up from there. Riiseli posted:Or take the tape back to your hand, so you can feel the slightest differences in the touches better (the ones that might be hard to observe, when she's touching the door) and click for increasing strength (and length) of touch. When she has grasped the idea of pushing your hand with her nose, it should be easier to offer the same behavior, when you start involving the door again. Thanks so much for all the advice, she's doing really well. If I keep repeating the command she now pushes the door all the way from wide open to fully closed in about three decent nudges. Almost there I think - this is the hardest thing I've tried to teach her and I'm amazed at how well she's picking it up. Such a smart girl 
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Aug 24, 2012 08:29
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Be careful not to repeat the cue too much. If she pushes once, don't say anything - reward for the second push. Then for harder pushes or something Door shutting is one of my favourite tricks. It's surprisingly easy to teach too.
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Aug 24, 2012 09:42
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We have a new director at work and my mentor (the behavior manager) had a meeting with her the other day. My mentor wants to institute a day training program (she knows it's not an ideal form of training, but it's better than nothing). She figures we have dogs with us here in daycare anyway, why not help them with some training if the owners want to opt for that? We will have a one-on-one session with the owners to teach them how to maintain what we've taught their dogs at home and give them handouts, of course, and she wants me to be the sort of pilot trainer for this program. I'm actually kind of excited about it because I think it'd be a really good start for me as I work on my people training skills. 
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Aug 28, 2012 18:12
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He just completed intermediate training at PetSmart. It was a pretty good program, but I want to take the rest of his training in a different direction, especially after reading through this thread and the resources you all so helpfully shared. My question to the knowledgeable ones: all of his training thus far (sit, stay, wait, heel, etc.) has been clickerless. I want to start using the clicker for his training. Should I integrate the clicker into his training sessions after "loading" it, or should I start from square one on all training exercises and build everything back up with the clicker. For instance, I can have him sit and wait as I walk away to quite a far distance. Should I "start over" with this exercise now that I have the clicker? Thanks! J. P. Beagley fucked around with this message at 04:17 on May 7, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2012 19:30
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Naga Warlord posted:My question to the knowledgeable ones: all of his training thus far (sit, stay, wait, heel, etc.) has been clickerless. I want to start using the clicker for his training. Should I integrate the clicker into his training sessions after "loading" it, or should I start from square one on all training exercises and build everything back up with the clicker.
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Sep 1, 2012 20:04
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Riiseli posted:No, not really. I for instance don't use a clicker for any stays. At least not for long and it sounds like Mr Pibb is quite advanced in his sit stay. What you might want to use the clicker for is fine tuning his heel and maybe to get a faster sit for instance. Clicker doesn't have intrinsic value, it's only a tool that is often used in operant conditioning. It will be very useful tool for you, if you want to teach him some new tricks now or in the future. And playing 100 things you can do with a box can be very fun even if you have no concrete goal in your mind. Thanks for the advice!
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Sep 2, 2012 22:40
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I've got two dogs -- Mel, who is a 9, and Reese, who is probably a little less than a year but she was a rescue so we're not sure. I decided I want to teach them to jump through a hoop, mostly because Reese can jump like a motherfucker and it'd be cool if she had an outlet for it, and I figured I'd train Mel too just so she doesn't get left out and can earn treats too. I looked up how to train it and it seemed simple enough. After tonight's efforts, Mel picked up on the idea of walking through the hoop remarkably quickly and would even high-step over it, but when I raised it high enough that she'd have to jump we hit a roadblock. She tried to step over it, found she couldn't, and then sat down in front of the hoop and barked at me. She was the very picture of canine frustration and it was pretty clear she thought her task was "walk through the hoop" and I was being a jerk for making it impossible. Reese, on the other hand, is for whatever reason scared of the hoop. She won't approach it, period. I put my hand with the treat through the hoop and she stretched out her head to get it, but every time I drew my hand slowly back towards it she immediately backed off several steps. I tried putting the hoop flat on the ground and just getting her to walk over it; she wouldn't. I put a treat on the hoop and offered the hoop to her; she backed away. Tips on both cases? It's only been one session of trying so I'm not giving up or anything, but I don't have any ready ideas to fix either problem beyond "keep doing the same thing and hope they get it".
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Sep 7, 2012 04:47
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CapnAndy posted:Tips on both cases? It's only been one session of trying so I'm not giving up or anything, but I don't have any ready ideas to fix either problem beyond "keep doing the same thing and hope they get it". Mel - momentum. Running through the hoop is basically jumping through it, so if you can figure out how to increase her speed you can get her jumping. Keep an eye out for any signs of discomfort, though. When you're just starting to increase her speed, keep the hoop almost touching the ground. Reese - shape the hoop. Use a clicker, click/treat for looking at the hoop. Once she's offering a look, raise criteria to taking a step towards the hoop, and so on. Once she's comfortable nose-touching the hoop, you can try throwing the treat on the other side of the hoop. For this entire sequence, keep the hoop upright but touching the floor. Engineer Lenk fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Sep 7, 2012 |
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Sep 7, 2012 06:25
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Cohen will jump through hoops, but I never actually taught a "hoop" behaviour - she had a cue for jump already in her vocabulary, so I can point to just about anything and tell her to "hup" and she'll jump it. So, basically if you're not getting the behaviour you want with the hoop, you can try other things, like a broom laid down across a few chairs, or a log, etc. Getting speed and distance will help as E. Lenk said, and it might be easier to do if you don't need to hold on to the hoop yourself. For your shy pup, I'm +1'ing what Lenk said.
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Sep 7, 2012 16:03
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