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I have a slightly E/N post, and this is for FL lawyers. I bought my brother a car and fixed it up for him to drive to work and school. We had it titled in his name because in FL I can be held liable for any damages/deaths/etc he causes while driving the car were it in my name. To protect myself and my interest in the vehicle, I drew up a promissory note for the agreed upon value of the car and had him sign a notice of lien. Well, he defaulted and disappeared, so I went to go file the lien, whereupon I discovered that the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor vehicles is trying to say I need a court order without the title on hand. I have his signature on both the promissory note and the Notice of Lien, why do I need the title? They can look up the title and see that he owns the car, all the title information is on the Notice of Lien, do they just need to go "Yep, that's a Title" or something? If he flips the car for drug money I'm SOL on my interest and have to pursue it as a civil matter (HAH! Like I'll ever see a cent that way). This sounds more like a "because we said so" thing than an actual part of a statute. Beach Bum fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Aug 21, 2012 |
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Aug 21, 2012 17:05
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xxEightxx posted:Not your attorney, don't know PA law (specifically). The following is not legal advice and I am not your attorney, it is rather the result of some quick research that you are free to use or not use as a starting point. I strongly suggest you consult a local attorney to verify any of the below information because I am not representing it is current. This is what we have done. We filed our reports and have sent the landlord a letter stating that we wish to be released from the lease because we hold that the lease should be void given that they did not maintain a property which is habitable according to health and building code and as such have failed to meet promises and obligations made during the marketing of the property. we are taking pictures of everything and have everything together for our side of things just in case they decide to sue us or something. And, as it so happens, I am starting law school this week. So, that is convenient.
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Aug 21, 2012 18:31
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nern posted:
It isn't too late to back out. If you have paid any tuition I bet they would refund it.
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Aug 21, 2012 18:38
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nern posted:And, as it so happens, I am starting law school this week. So, that is convenient. You would learn more about landlord/tenant from reading the internet than you probably will in law school. Seconding the "it's not too late" sentiment.
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Aug 21, 2012 18:50
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euphronius posted:It isn't too late to back out. If you have paid any tuition I bet they would refund it. hahah, i know its not ideal. but it is actually an improvement from the previous track i was on which was to attend an unranked PhD program in philosophy without funding which would have meant 4-6 years of taking out more student loans (i already have debt from getting an MA in philosophy) to get a phd in philosophy which would pretty much guarantee that i could never get employed. at least this way i am going into a profession that actually has a job market, however lovely it is, and will be attending the top law school in my region.
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Aug 21, 2012 18:53
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No nern. No. Don't do it nern.
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Aug 21, 2012 18:59
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nern posted:And, as it so happens, I am starting law school this week. So, that is convenient. Things I learned about practical lawyering from law school: Scotch appreciation.
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Aug 21, 2012 18:59
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CaptainScraps posted:Things I learned about practical lawyering from law school: I can mix the best drat whisky sour. It's not that good, I just have low standards.
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Aug 21, 2012 19:05
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im not worried about it, if i can't get work coming out of law school, i'll just reapply to some phd programs and go to school forever. i really don't care if i end up living on student loans forever. ive got a family which brings me happiness, so "success" or being rich isn't something i need to feel fulfilled. as long as i stay busy, i'm fine.
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Aug 21, 2012 19:15
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nern posted:ive got a family which brings me happiness, so "success" or being rich isn't something i need to feel fulfilled. as long as i stay busy, i'm fine. Then why the poo poo are you going to law school
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Aug 21, 2012 19:19
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Beach Bum posted:I have a slightly E/N post, and this is for FL lawyers. Not a FL lawyer, this isn't advice or establishing an attorney-client relationship, but from a five second search liens on cars have to be recorded on the title itself, which I'd guess is what the man was after but I can't say for sure. You should consult with a local attorney to see what your options are. Also nern, don't go to law school. I bet there's a job market for circus clowns too, and it's more fulfilling. Go to clown school.
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Aug 21, 2012 19:21
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Seriously, Nern. Do not go to law school.
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Aug 21, 2012 19:21
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CaptainScraps posted:Then why the poo poo are you going to law school simply put, because its smarter than going to an unfunded phd program in philosophy. even when i see things like this article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jmaureenhenderson/2012/06/26/why-attending-law-school-is-the-worst-career-decision-youll-ever-make/ 55% employed as lawyers after 9 months sounds pretty decent. i dont think you really understand how dark things are in the humanities; even people with phds in philosophy from prestigious universities can't get dinky adjunct professorships at small state universities because of how flooded the market is and how many cuts have been going through academia. i would rather test the waters in law school and see if i can do well enough here to get some stable employment with a decent income than enter academia and deal with harsher competition for even more meager pay.
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Aug 21, 2012 19:26
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If you insist on going: If you aren't top 5 after fall 1l drop out. I didn't say top 5%. Top 5.
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Aug 21, 2012 19:28
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the law school does not actually provide academic rankings of students. all i can really do it make sure i get all A's. im not too worried about doing that though since its really going to be a step back from the rigor of philosophy grad school. and again, if things don't pan out, earning a JD can only help my chances of getting funding at a PhD program in philosophy.
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Aug 21, 2012 19:33
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nern posted:im not too worried about doing that though since its really going to be a step back from the rigor of philosophy grad school. You have no idea what you are getting into. Oh well I tried to warn you. Also, you should be able to call the Allegheny County Bar's number for a low cost consultation re your L/T problem. Call 412-261-5555
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Aug 21, 2012 19:37
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nern posted:simply put, because its smarter than going to an unfunded phd program in philosophy. even when i see things like this article: You know there are career tracks out there other than law and philosophy right?
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Aug 21, 2012 19:39
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i really understand that you are trying to warn and help out. and i appreciate that, but i have done my research and understand what i am getting into. but, thank you. also, if things with the landlord situation do escalate, since we receive state medical assistance and food stamps it seems we will be able to recieve free legal aid from Neighborhood Legal Service Association.
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Aug 21, 2012 19:41
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Andy Dufresne posted:You know there are career tracks out there other than law and philosophy right? yes, obviously, but im 27 years old with a master's degree. im not going to start over and reboot my life. i might if it were just me, but i have a 10 year old daughter and a 3 year old son to think about, i can't just say "oh well, the last 10 years haven't really gotten me anywhere, time to start over." better to just work my hardest and do the best i can to ensure the best possible outcome for myself. being in academia for all this time hasn't given me much of an "in" elsewhere; but i know logic, i know how to analyze texts, i know how to write, and i know how to teach. since these are the skills i have i am doing whatever i can with them. perhaps i should have entered undergrad with a more practical major or done something easier and more financially safe. but i am fulfilled emotionally/personally with what i have been doing with my life, so all i can do is hope that the rest follows. i completely understand where you guys are coming from. if an undergrad came to me asking if they should go to graduate school for philosophy, i would say NO. yet, people still go to graduate school for philosophy. yes, law school might not be all that practical, but people still go to law school, and people still work as lawyers. i appreciate your warnings, but i am not just some kid coming out of undergrad who always wanted to go to law school without any idea of what to expect or what they are coming up against. i know the risks, i know the challenges, and that's fine. also. i completely expect to switch from beer to hard liquor over the course of the next year. hahaha (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 21, 2012 19:53
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Jesus christ, you have two children and your answer is to go to law school? Have fun pissing away their college tuition. e: Going to law school counts as "starting over" given your background fyi. Absolutely nothing you've done is relevant experience for law school, much less actually practicing law.
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Aug 21, 2012 19:57
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Jesus christ, you have two children and your answer is to go to law school? Have fun pissing away their college tuition. yeah, im not a one-percenter that can afford to buy my children cars and pay for them to go to fancy schools. they can go to school the same way i did, by working and taking out student loans. the illusion that upward mobility is possible and that people who are poor are poor by some fault of there own is one of the biggest lies which pervades our culture and is falsified by even the slightest research into socio-economic data. hate to break it to you, but there are some of us for whom doing things like starting a college tuition fund and investing and poo poo like that is simply a pipe dream. we weren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:06
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nern posted:yeah, im not a one-percenter that can afford to buy my children cars and pay for them to go to fancy schools. they can go to school the same way i did, by working and taking out student loans. the illusion that upward mobility is possible and that people who are poor are poor by some fault of there own is one of the biggest lies which pervades our culture and is falsified by even the slightest research into socio-economic data. hate to break it to you, but there are some of us for whom doing things like starting a college tuition fund and investing and poo poo like that is simply a pipe dream. we weren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths. Have fun pissing away $200k on some misguided quest to prove the internet wrong
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Aug 21, 2012 20:11
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i completely understand wanting to warn someone about getting into the legal profession in the spirit of "hey, make sure you know what to expect" and "might not be the best idea", but it is uncalled for to start insulting someone personally for making a choice that you yourself made (if you are one of the lawyers in the thread).
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Aug 21, 2012 20:13
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Have fun pissing away $200k on some misguided quest to prove the internet wrong what are you even talking about? i have completely acknowledged the risks involved with law school and said that i understand completely the warnings, etc. im not trying to prove anyone wrong, i am simply pursuing the best option for me, fully aware of and acknowledging the risks.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:15
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Well, I did go start law school eight years ago at a time when merely walking in the door actually was pretty much a guarantee of gainful employment. On the other hand, you're talking about going to school when it's about 50% more expensive than when I did, and job prospects are much worse. And in retrospect the only things that have saved me is a) I was in fact born with a silver spoon in my mouth and b) I graduated as the legal market started crashing (we were a leading indicator of the recession, hooray!) but before it had hit bottom. Also, making fun of people for making dumb choices is kinda the raison d'etre of something awful.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:19
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nern posted:"oh well, the last 10 years haven't really gotten me anywhere, time to start over." Sunk Cost Fallacy.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:20
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nern posted:what are you even talking about? i have completely acknowledged the risks involved with law school and said that i understand completely the warnings, etc. im not trying to prove anyone wrong, i am simply pursuing the best option for me, fully aware of and acknowledging the risks. It's the best option much like saying in this thread "Well, I've been charged with vehicular homicide, but I think I have a pretty good grasp on how to go about defending myself due to watching a whole bunch of Law and Order. Am I doing the right thing?" is.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:20
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alright. no worries. i do love giving people poo poo on the internet as well. god bless you my child.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:20
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nern posted:i completely understand wanting to warn someone about getting into the legal profession in the spirit of "hey, make sure you know what to expect" and "might not be the best idea", but it is uncalled for to start insulting someone personally for making a choice that you yourself made (if you are one of the lawyers in the thread). Go become a welder! Welders make great money and you get to wear a wicked mask. Seriously babes love welding masks.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:21
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You could go to nursing school for significantly less money and have a guaranteed career on the other side. Or another bachelor's in the technology field. Or just stick with the incredibly misguided Ph.D in philosophy route since you've all but admitted you'll go back to that upon the first sign of difficulty in the job market after law school. Spinning your wheels and racking up more debt aren't the answer. Student loans are great and justified if they enable a better living post-education. In your case they'll do quite the opposite: Saddle you with debt that can't be discharged in bankruptcy. For reference the judgement the landlord will get against you when you break your lease can be discharged through bankruptcy. I'm not trying to be an rear end here, but you're really teetering on blaming the world for your economic situation and using it as a justification to make yourself even worse off.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:21
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yeah, i don't want to be a welder or a nurse though.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:33
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anyway. thanks for the input on the landlord situation. we are definitely going to play it safe and do whatever we can to protect ourselves should he decide to take us to court over it. and thanks for the advice about careers and law school and what not. you have been very helpful; i'll keep that second bachelor's degree idea in mind, since that would definitely be preferable to going back to philosophy. and it keeps me enrolled in school so they dont start coming after me for student loans which i certainly wont be able to pay back until i get a job.
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Aug 21, 2012 20:36
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nern posted:hahah, i know its not ideal. but it is actually an improvement from the previous track i was on which was to attend an unranked PhD program in philosophy without funding which would have meant 4-6 years of taking out more student loans (i already have debt from getting an MA in philosophy) to get a phd in philosophy which would pretty much guarantee that i could never get employed. at least this way i am going into a profession that actually has a job market, however lovely it is, and will be attending the top law school in my region. Same trap, different face. No jobs, die alone
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Aug 21, 2012 20:40
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nern posted:alright. no worries. i do love giving people poo poo on the internet as well. god bless you my child. On this point, could you press your shift key once in a while? Hey, does anyone remember that US guy who was refused permission to practice by his Bar Board because of several hundred thousand dollars of student debt he'd been running away from?
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Aug 21, 2012 20:49
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Alchenar posted:On this point, could you press your shift key once in a while? I did read about that! His circumstances were pretty extreme. I couldn't believe what he had done when I read about it. Notice the capitalization? ;] edit: found a link to the article about him - http://abovethelaw.com/2011/01/character-fitness-fail-for-graduate-with-no-plan-to-pay-off-his-debts/
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Aug 21, 2012 20:53
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nern posted:alright. no worries. i do love giving people poo poo on the internet as well. god bless you my child. Hey. So. Here's how the costs break down. Every year you're not working, you're losing money. I bet you can make 40K a year right now without much looking. Law school is 3 years. That's 120K right off the bat you're not making. And then you're taking out loans. I'll be nice and say that you take out 20 (hah) for tuition and 20 for living expenses. Oh look, $240K. And then there's bar study. And then maybe you get a job. (Good luck.)
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Aug 21, 2012 21:25
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And then the economy rebounds, you are an 8 year attorney averaging about $250k a year, and a couple years off from being an equity partner. Meanwhile non-lawschool you is still making 40k a year. Man I love hypothetical wars.
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Aug 21, 2012 21:32
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not to mention that I was already on the job market for a year after getting my MA and couldn't land anything. After TAing at Harvard, I had to draw unemployment before ultimately getting a job at a Dunkin Donuts to help fund my move to Pittsburgh for law school.
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Aug 21, 2012 21:38
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xxEightxx posted:And then the economy rebounds, you are an 8 year attorney averaging about $250k a year, and a couple years off from being an equity partner. Meanwhile non-lawschool you is still making 40k a year. Man I love hypothetical wars. a) Assuming he goes to law school, he's graduating no sooner than 2016, so he's competing with almost a decade's worth of JDs that haven't entered the legal market since the legal downturn in 2007 (which, if you'll note, was before the recession: a point that will become important soon!) b) The legal market is hosed for different reasons than the economy as a whole. If the problems in the legal market were caused by the recession, the pain would have been spread on through all levels of associates, as work dries up for everyone. Instead, you have a massacre of new lawyers who are unhireable because law school fundamentally does not train you to become a lawyer and clients know that. Clients aren't just demanding lower billing rates across the board; they're demanding that firms don't even staff new associates on their matters, because the clients don't want to be paying for training newly-minted associates as to how to do their jobs. This isn't getting into issues involving outsourcing, which really are recent innovations in the legal market. Suffice to say that the legal market's contraction is likely permanent, and recovery is going to be evidenced merely by a cessation in the bankruptcies of firms.
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Aug 21, 2012 21:44
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You can still hang out your shingle in a small town and make a living. You should preferably be from that small town and know a lot of people. The Biglaw gravy train is over for all except the top of the top.
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Aug 21, 2012 21:46
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