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It wouldn't be an internet argument if it didn't have hyperbole. But yeah, let's take a step back here and look at some of this a bit less subjectively. I have stated some rather extreme views on Persona 1 myself, but of course they will not apply to everyone. Even then almost everything I've said is based off of the original PS1 iteration, a game I think even Technique will agree is pretty bad (that localization alone...). The PSP remake is probably average enough if anyone wants to give a shot they will probably not have the reaction that I did, though I strongly hope they at least revamped the final dungeon. I think we can definitely say that Persona 3 and 4 are not "terrible". They have sold too well and garnered far too much praise to be described as such. Greatest ever? Well, no. Let's not go down that subjective road. But even if they are not terrible, there's plenty I can see someone just not caring for in these two games. It happens! I myself found much of Persona 3 to be mediocre. We are all beautiful unique snowflakes who will like some stuff more than the rest.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:19
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Anybody tried out P4 arena yet? It's actually pretty drat good. I'm not sure how balanced it is yet though.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:20
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I think the main reason for P3's success is that it's just so anime. I mean, it's a good game, but it's not that amazing either. People just go wild for anime schools, basically. (See: every anime made in the past ten years)
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Aug 22, 2012 21:21
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Technique posted:I think the main reason for P3's success is that it's just so anime. I mean, it's a good game, but it's not that amazing either. People just go wild for anime schools, basically. (See: every anime made in the past ten years) All Megaten is anime. Post apocalyptic Tokyo with "exotic" western demons and a poorly understood interpretation of Christianity? Anime as all get out.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:22
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Dr Pepper posted:All Megaten is anime. Well, yeah, but P3 went even further beyond anime. You can call it Anime 2.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:23
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Dr Pepper posted:Post apocalyptic Tokyo with "exotic" western demons and a poorly understood interpretation of Christianity? I loved that about P3. I laugh at people around me and point out that jesus was not a white man from the south. Christianity is poorly understood by Christians. It had a great approach that no one bothered cleaning up for the West. The characters were also very well developed in relation to the tarot. Once I played for the story it really changed my opinion.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:26
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Technique posted:Well, yeah, but P3 went even further beyond anime. You can call it Anime 2. What does this even mean? You do realize, there's tons of anime out there that goes beyond the usual high school/moe blob garbage right?
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Aug 22, 2012 21:29
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Pierce posted:I loved that about P3. I laugh at people around me and point out that jesus was not a white man from the south. Christianity is poorly understood by Christians. Can I ask what this has to do with anything? It is a complete non-sequitur that makes you look like a socially stunted and self-righteous person to be around. Christians in various communities draw Jesus to look like their own ethnicity; this is not a new thing nor is it localized to "The South". As for characters, Eternal Punishment's characters were far more interesting than those of any Persona that came after. The small character arcs were quite fun, and the designs were generally better put-together visually.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:35
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Tallgeese posted:That sounds like you are equating success with quality though, which is highly questionable. P3 and 4 are just complete slogs to play through, and their settings are just not as interesting as P1 and P2's. And that's why I think Catherine and Persona 4 Arena are such interesting experiments. Can you distill the good parts of persona games such as plot and character interactions and get rid of the garbage parts such as dungeon crawling and turn based combat? Garbage that would have been culled a while ago if jrpgs weren't a niche genre focused on replicating the same old poo poo for the same stagnant pool of fans they have had for a decade. Neither of them quite hit the mark, but it wasn't because of their lack of dungeons or item shops. Part of me is hoping that they'll keep going this direction for Persona 5 and not have any trace of rpg in it at all. Gears of Persona.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:37
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Alteisen posted:What does this even mean? You do realize, there's tons of anime out there that goes beyond the usual high school/moe blob garbage right? Yes, but there is a ridiculous amount of said moeblob school animes and they are stupidly popular. I'm just saying that P3 basically being Slice of Life Anime: The Game definitely helped its popularity.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:39
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Tallgeese posted:Can I ask what this has to do with anything? It is a complete non-sequitur that makes you look like a socially stunted and self-righteous person to be around. Christians in various communities draw Jesus to look like their own ethnicity; this is not a new thing nor is it localized to "The South". Great to see you will judge someone based upon a sentence. I was pointing this out in relation to my own locale. Next time I will try to sound like a pompous rear end instead.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:54
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I've played Persona 2, and I honestly enjoy 3 and 4 more. I like the characters better and the gameplay was vastly superior. 4 in particular is easily my favorite RPG of all time without a doubt and very, very tempted to buy a Vita just to play the Golden.
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Aug 22, 2012 21:57
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Pierce posted:Yep, played P3P 2x and P4G is preordered. I'll grab DDS 1 and Nocturne. Nocturne is pretty good, it's got the demon fusing stuff except instead of you switching between skill sets and picking static party members, your party members simply are the demons and it owns a lot. Just make sure you watch your weaknesses and resistances. Exploiting weaknesses is just as big a deal in Nocturne as it was in Persona, but having your weaknesses exploited hurts so much more in this game (and resisting the enemy's attacks helps you so much more). spoiler alert buffs and debuffs break the game and fog breath specifically is like the best spell in the game Spiffo fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Aug 22, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 21:59
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vanov posted:This thread is weird sometimes. Days without more than a handful of posts between them, followed by fifty posts of "hey let's argue about which Persona is better some more." Clearly they need to release games quicker to keep us entertained. I was pretty excited to see so many new posts because I assume something had leaked from Famitsu or there had been an announcement or something. Boy was I disappointed.
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Aug 22, 2012 22:28
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Tallgeese posted:That sounds like you are equating success with quality though, which is highly questionable. Out of curiosity, what's a game that was highly successful, but bad?
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Aug 22, 2012 23:04
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Magikoopa189 posted:Out of curiosity, what's a game that was highly successful, but bad? Square-Enix hyping an upcoming announcement posted:"The "Lightning Saga" that started with the release of FINAL FANTASY XIII, has achieved a cumulative shipment of over 9.6 million units; and in May 2012 FINAL FANTASY XIII-2 was brought to conclusion with the add-on content entitled "Lightning's Story: Requiem of the Goddess".
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Aug 22, 2012 23:06
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Or like, Angry Birds.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:20
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Technique posted:Well, yeah, but P3 went even further beyond anime. You can call it Anime 2. I don't get how you can say that when Persona 4 exists
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Aug 22, 2012 23:22
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Captain Failcon posted:I don't get how you can say that when Persona 4 exists I like to pretend that it doesn't. 
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Aug 22, 2012 23:22
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Wait how is Persona 4, one of the most down to earth Megaten games more anime then Persona 3, which had the a robot and Dog as party members, or Persona 2 which had Hitler brought back to life. Or Devil Survivor.Technique posted:I like to pretend that it doesn't. And I like to pretend that Devil Survior 2 doesn't exist! Because it is an embarrassingly bad "anime" game.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:29
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Can someone please break down how many units of anime (assume 1 anime = 5 anime cliches) each of the megaten games are? I need something to play and am stumped where to start with this series.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:33
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You know, I gotta say that I started with Persona 4 as my first SMT game but ended up liking Persona 3 a lot better. Persona 4 is a solid game and all and definitely improves over Persona 3's gameplay quite a bit, but P4 was riddled with so much over the top pandering and insanely large plot holes that led me to believe P4 was a parody before I knew what I was getting into
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Aug 22, 2012 23:37
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Lessail posted:Can someone please break down how many units of anime (assume 1 anime = 5 anime cliches) each of the megaten games are? I need something to play and am stumped where to start with this series. None really because calling something "anime" is really dumb actually and I shouldn't have been caught up in Technique's inexplicable hate-boner for Persona. It literally just means "pop culture from Japan I don't like."
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Aug 22, 2012 23:37
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Dr Pepper posted:Wait how is Persona 4, one of the most down to earth Megaten games more anime then Persona 3, which had the a robot and Dog as party members, or Persona 2 which had Hitler brought back to life. Or Devil Survivor. Presumably because Persona 4 turns the slapstick cartoon bullshit up to 10. Off the top of my head there's that scene in the baths where the girls toss a never-ending barrage of wash basins at the boys because EEK ECCHIS!!! or whatever. It may not take itself as seriously as P3, but it's still pretty cartoony. (Persona 2 had the decency to keep the stock "zany bathhouse antics" scenario to the drama cds) Lessail posted:Can someone please break down how many units of anime (assume 1 anime = 5 anime cliches) each of the megaten games are? I need something to play and am stumped where to start with this series. Each SMT title is guaranteed to contain 10 units of anime, that is why it is nicknamed MegaTen. TurnipFritter fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Aug 22, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 23:40
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Captain Failcon posted:You know, I gotta say that I started with Persona 4 as my first SMT game but ended up liking Persona 3 a lot better. Persona 4 is a solid game and all and definitely improves over Persona 3's gameplay quite a bit, but P4 was riddled with so much over the top pandering and insanely large plot holes that led me to believe P4 was a parody before I knew what I was getting into First half of P4 > P3 > Last half of P4 The thing left so many concepts half-explored, like people's addiction to the TV and the media (and they had tons of time to explore it through Nanako alone). Also some people suspect that the original killer was going to be Dojima, which would have been cool because not only does he fit all the same criteria that Adachi does, but it would also make the scenes in the hospital more poignant (since it's all his fault Namatame did this stuff it the first place), as well as would have played better into the whole "people live in fog to ignore the truth they don't want to see" angle (since this is a truth that YOU don't want to see). Also the way they handled the true final boss stuff was really dumb and unnecessary and I hope that P4G takes those now-playable months after Amano Sagiri and uses them to lead into Izanami in a way that's a little less abrupt (and a little more sensible). edit: the thing I liked most about P4 was the theme of "facing the side of you that you don't want to admit", which plays into its bigger theme of "ignoring the truth you don't want to see", and the parts where your dudes face their shadows is great. That's only like half the dungeons, though, and the other half of them are pretty bad. Well, I kind of dig magatsu inaba but still that's only 5/8 - the game definitely loads the best content right up at the front. Spiffo fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 23:50
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If you're going to use spoiler tags, be a bit more judicious. Why spoiler tag the identity of the killer, but not Izanami?
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Aug 23, 2012 00:03
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MrAristocrates posted:If you're going to use spoiler tags, be a bit more judicious. Why spoiler tag the identity of the killer, but not Izanami? Because who the heck is that before she shows up out of nowhere? It tells you nothing. edit: spoilered the scooby doo reveal just in case anyway Spiffo fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 00:11
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I just hope in the next Persona game they don't relegate all the party characters growth to s links and let them stay pretty one dimensional in the main story. That was a really dumb thing P4 did.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:21
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I just hope in the next Persona game they don't relegate all the party characters growth to s links and let them stay pretty one dimensional in the main story. That was a really dumb thing P4 did. My one complaint was that they had Rise be the dude who has to stay back and guard the proverbial base. You should be able to decide who gets to play the supporting unit that has to stay behind.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:27
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Vaerai Archon posted:My one complaint was that they had Rise be the dude who has to stay back and guard the proverbial base. But have them be varying degrees of useful. Like if you put Yosuke there just Bad Things Happen all the time. "Hey guys it's weak to ice! I mean it has to be it's red right?"
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Aug 23, 2012 00:36
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Len posted:But have them be varying degrees of useful. Like if you put Yosuke there just Bad Things Happen all the time. "Hey guys it's weak to ice! I mean it has to be it's red right?" This is exactly what I want.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:37
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This idea is both hilarious and awesome. They should also get the exp from battle, which helps even out team across your party members.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:38
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Chickenfrogman posted:This idea is both hilarious and awesome. They should also get the exp from battle, which helps even out team across your party members. I really just want my party to level up along with the main character even if they're not in my active group. Having to cycle them out and grind if I want to use everyone whenever I want is really annoying.
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Aug 23, 2012 00:46
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I just hope in the next Persona game they don't relegate all the party characters growth to s links and let them stay pretty one dimensional in the main story. That was a really dumb thing P4 did. Also to the people talking about the original idea for the killer's identity for P4: No, no, no, no. That was so loving stupid. SO loving stupid. It would have pretty much ruined the game. These words you keep saying, they are nonsense. The killer they stuck with was just fine (if not awesome). E: Also yes to "everyone levels up with the MC". They could at least do it like Suikoden, where anyone who lags behind will rapidly gain levels to catch up. There is really no reason not to do this other than wanting the player to dick around grinding some more. Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 00:52
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TurnipFritter posted:I was pretty excited to see so many new posts because I assume something had leaked from Famitsu or there had been an announcement or something. Boy was I disappointed. Ditto. When there are 30+ posts, I go in assuming it's either news, or people discussing and comparing their opinions. 60+ posts and you can be assured discussion about Aigis and the end of her social link are in there somewhere.
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Aug 23, 2012 01:09
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Honestly one of the things I love most about P2 is just how much the story hinges on the party's character growth. That it slowly got downgraded to being essentially optional is sad. 
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Aug 23, 2012 01:21
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TurnipFritter posted:I was pretty excited to see so many new posts because I assume something had leaked from Famitsu or there had been an announcement or something. Boy was I disappointed. Don't worry Turnip, I'm excited about SMT4 and Soul Hackers 3DS.
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Aug 23, 2012 01:26
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What's even better than new posts arguing about which persona game is better, are new posts talking about how there's a lot of new posts. I remembered I never played the answer, so before moving onto probably trying DDS, I thought I might hop into the answer. This was a bad idea. Persona 3's dungeon design was always really bad because it was based on grinding out enough to beat the next boss, and then skipping several floors to get to the next boss, because there are way too many floors filled with the exact same enemies that go on for eternity. Boiling an entire game down to JUST persona 3 dungeons is too much, I say this as someone who really enjoyed Strange Journey, so it's not like I auto hate dungeon crawling. Also why on earth would they take away your compendium? I really think that change alone is enough for me to forget this game because I can't be bothered to fuse under these conditions. On the plus side, Aigis' run animation is stupid in the best way possible. Sometimes I just run in a circle for a couple laps. LibbyM fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 23, 2012 02:04
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I have a pet theory that The Answer was made for vocal fans who wished that Persona was more like the mainline SMT games, and the developers responded by making it like SMT I & II. LibbyM posted:Boiling an entire game down to JUST persona 3 dungeons is too much, I say this as someone who really enjoyed Strange Journey, so it's not like I auto hate dungeon crawling. Agreed, dungeon crawling in Strange Journey was done fantastically. I'm the kind of person who generally tolerates dungeon crawling segments in games as long as they don't get excessive, but I can't get enough of the "grinding" in SJ! Persona 3 had a genuinely interesting concept for it's dungeon, so I gave the more annoying aspects a pass. But by the last block, it began to wear thin and I could not wait for it to be over. Funnily enough, I played through Persona 4 and Persona 3 around the same time, and back then I found Persona 3's one dungeon to be much more tolerable than the variable dungeons in Persona 4.
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Aug 23, 2012 02:23
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Catalina posted:Funnily enough, I played through Persona 4 and Persona 3 around the same time, and back then I found Persona 3's one dungeon to be much more tolerable than the variable dungeons in Persona 4. I always Perfered persona 4's "Beat this dungeon before a bunch of rainy days in a row" to the "Hey, there will be a big boss fight on the full moon, be strong enough". They were both a little ambiguous I guess, but I preferred semi ambiguous deadline to ambiguous required levels of strength. Persona 4's ambiguity left you with a full week's warning too so it wasn't too ambiguous. Granted it always turned out that as long as you could get as far as the dungeon would let you, you'd be ready for the full moon fight, but it still always left me feeling really concerned that I would have to reload an earlier save file and grind more.
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Aug 23, 2012 02:34
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