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Well I've got my first interview with a development studio on Tuesday. Pretty excited, and lots of thanks to all y'all in this thread who have been so helpful!
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Aug 22, 2012 23:04
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I'd go a step further - synergising - and work with BSP while pushing out a few BSP made staticmeshes (there's an export bsp to static mesh button) and then work with both. If you make bsp t-junc too much (generally speaking - making it too complex) starts to throw up normals errors like black faces and collision errors like falling through the floor. Block out basic space using the CSG operations then start importing + scaling your newly made simple static meshes. Just remember to save your packages (perhaps saving the meshes in a new package entirely) or you might lose your meshes if you remove all instances of them in the map. Likewise you can make some simple models in Sketchup/Maya/Max whatev and do the same. I really like using the same grey/grid texture for everything as to really make place holder stuff apparent to the artists when they start arting up. (Or better yet, use prebuilt stuff from the artists and wean them into the level if it works. Everybody loves a win win situation! If you ever did full levels in GoldSrc, follow that logic for BSP/CSG creation entirely. Also to chip in Monster, you can message me a little about Source if you need to. 
Fishbus fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Aug 22, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 23:04
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Fishbus posted:I'd go a step further - synergising - and work with BSP while pushing out a few BSP made staticmeshes (there's an export bsp to static mesh button) and then work with both. If you make bsp t-junc too much (generally speaking - making it too complex) starts to throw up normals errors like black faces and collision errors like falling through the floor. Block out basic space using the CSG operations then start importing + scaling your newly made simple static meshes. Just remember to save your packages (perhaps saving the meshes in a new package entirely) or you might lose your meshes if you remove all instances of them in the map. I love CSG so goddamn much. Nice curves and angles are finally in my grasp instead of an artists, and no messy brushwork. Terrain in Radiant owns bones too.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:10
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Thanks man, I know I bother you a lot so I thought I'd spread myself out a little. ITD convinced me to stick with UDK anyway. I've potentially got an industry vet artist to work with me on BRIG so all I need is someone with uscript experience and I think we can start making some headway.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:10
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:I love CSG so goddamn much. Nice curves and angles are finally in my grasp instead of an artists, and no messy brushwork. UE3 really has a hate-on for BSP/CSG based level designers like us. Like blockouts are really inefficient to do unless you really know the whole thing inside out. I was thinking of using the terrain tool in UDK, but eh, It's a bit pesky and a few BSP brushes do fine to convey the idea of a sloping road anyway vOv
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Aug 22, 2012 23:13
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Fishbus posted:UE3 really has a hate-on for BSP/CSG based level designers like us. Like blockouts are really inefficient to do unless you really know the whole thing inside out. Radiant feels like Hammer but someone put more work into it. Its so awesome to get those "Go find a programmer!" errors and actually be able to go get the programmer. And yeah, theres no reason for me to ever touch the terrain tool realistically, but I can finally make poo poo look like a forest floor or a beach or something, instead of brush triangles or block subdivisions.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:15
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I went about a month with very limited interview action, and suddenly multiple studios want to interview me in person in the same two weeks. And they are all located in different countries. I'm headed to Germany today, and interviewing in Montreal next week. I'm also waiting to hear back from a few US companies. I enjoy traveling but it would be nice to know where I'll be living two months from now.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:22
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:Terrain in Radiant owns bones too. The stock one is the absolute worst, not only is it incomplete, it doesn't bounds check correctly and corrupts memory.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:32
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OneEightHundred posted:In what version, the COD4 one? Because the terrain editing in pretty much every non-customized version is absolutely dreadful. Yeah the COD4 one isn't very good. Its the version we're using for MW3, which'll probably never be released. EDIT: And I probably shouldn't say any more about this Irish Taxi Driver fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Aug 22, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 23:37
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:Radiant feels like Hammer but someone put more work into it. Its so awesome to get those "Go find a programmer!" errors and actually be able to go get the programmer. I will say one great thing about UDK, it really rubs me the right way with my inner designer. Kismet is the loving bomb and really allows you to do a stupid amount of stuff. Steel was about as MUCH as I could do in hammer that was avail, which wasn't grand in the sceme of things, but kismet, ah jeez I just love it. All my wires EVERYWHERE all of them in a tangled loving spaghetti of gameplay prototyping. Then a programmer makes a simple Event/Actorclass from the mess. Then you give them a wee hug because kismet allows you to show what you want without having to write a few solid pages of documentation where you end up forgetting about edge cases and once its in it's nothing that you thought you said it was.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:38
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Fishbus posted:I will say one great thing about UDK, it really rubs me the right way with my inner designer. Kismet is the loving bomb and really allows you to do a stupid amount of stuff. Steel was about as MUCH as I could do in hammer that was avail, which wasn't grand in the sceme of things, but kismet, ah jeez I just love it. All my wires EVERYWHERE all of them in a tangled loving spaghetti of gameplay prototyping. However much I might love Unity, I sometimes get misty eyed when thinking of Kismet. Yeah yeah, uScript, kinda sorta the same, but... Kismet was a first-class citizen in the engine, for free.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:42
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Fishbus posted:Then a programmer makes a simple Event/Actorclass from the mess. Then you give them a wee hug because kismet allows you to show what you want without having to write a few solid pages of documentation where you end up forgetting about edge cases and once its in it's nothing that you thought you said it was. Is this a pretty typical workflow in UE3? Why have a programmer take the time to turn it into code after it's already working? Performance? Maintainability? Edit: I've only had brief exposure to both but I find Crytek's visual-node-based-gameplay-logic thingy to be more intuitive than UE3's.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:43
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One of these days I will "learn-how-to-do-a-programmming", but until then, mastery of level flow and design is my mistress. Kismet is just the perfect thing for my brain to understand when it comes to gameplay prototyping.DancingMachine posted:Is this a pretty typical workflow in UE3? Why have a programmer take the time to turn it into code after it's already working? Performance? Maintainability? Again, it saves time from meetings/documents etc because you give the prototype in a map and say "this is how I want it" maybe with +X or Y feature because kizzy doesn't do it and it comes out in the end working exactly as intended. I think that's an important factor in its use, especially since iteration of a gameplay feature is something I find programmers grit their teeth about when I come up later saying "uhh, yeah, this doesn't really work can you change it again to do X or delete it or whatevs as it doesn't work as I thought it would." I can just do it myself until it's iterated to basically what works in the level after a few weeks of playtesting, with full accessible control by me etc until it's in a state where I'm 95% sure there won't be any big changes all the way to release. Fishbus fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Aug 23, 2012 |
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Aug 22, 2012 23:48
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Fishbus posted:I will say one great thing about UDK, it really rubs me the right way with my inner designer. Kismet is the loving bomb and really allows you to do a stupid amount of stuff. Steel was about as MUCH as I could do in hammer that was avail, which wasn't grand in the sceme of things, but kismet, ah jeez I just love it. All my wires EVERYWHERE all of them in a tangled loving spaghetti of gameplay prototyping. I kinda miss the in editor I/O stuff that Source does, we do everything with script files and it kinda sucks to want some big scripted event but you can't really prototype it and ahhhhhhhgghhghghg Unreal didn't seem to be a big hit around here, the artists enjoyed it but the designers didn't seem to enthused to talk about it.
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Aug 22, 2012 23:52
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For all you high school and college kids who want to work in games some day: be a programmer. This is not new advice or anything but it's worth re-iterating the point every now and then. It's hard to get a job in games, even as a programmer. But the programmers have it about 10 times easier than art and design. My studio was shut down a little less than a month ago. Almost every (possibly 100%, there's a couple I haven't talked to recently) programmer in my studio already has a job lined up. Some chose to go into a non-games programming job, but those that made that choice took jobs that they were genuinely interested in and happy to do. None of the artists or designers have settled yet. Some have good possibilities they are actively pursuing, some do not. Producer/Program Manager types are a mixed bag. Some have found work and some haven't yet - most will probably be exiting games. For those interested in my hypothetical from a few pages back: I ended up deciding to take the career step forward in social games.
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Aug 23, 2012 06:59
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Building on the programming point, I'm seeing more and more companies who like their designers to have programming knowledge.
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Aug 23, 2012 07:06
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I've always had the perception that programming is significantly more stressful than an art path. I haven't met very many programmers that are veterans and love their job programming games for AAA studios. Most of the programmers I know that do love their jobs don't work in games, or work on an indie team. That seems like the way to go. Tech artists are awesome though, seems like they get best of the both worlds. Experimentation, problem solving, and occasionally creative freedom to make awesome things either for the game or for their team. I love my tech artist, and he is a genius (and probably gets paid triple what I do as a character artist)
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Aug 23, 2012 07:31
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Seluin posted:Building on the programming point, I'm seeing more and more companies who like their designers to have programming knowledge. This has always been true (designers who don't code is a positively new thing...). They're just harder to find! edit: new if you're old =/
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Aug 23, 2012 10:10
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ceebee posted:I've always had the perception that programming is significantly more stressful than an art path. I haven't met very many programmers that are veterans and love their job programming games for AAA studios. Most of the programmers I know that do love their jobs don't work in games, or work on an indie team. That seems like the way to go. I have no idea what you're talking about. Our programmers here enjoy their job... At least, we enjoy it when there is work to be had. We had a big dry spell where we did nothing but evaluate engines to choose what we'll be starting our new project with, and god that was boring... "Gee, I wonder what I'll do today? Oh, I know. Read piles of code, write none." But it's a lot better now. Just need pre-production to get their sodding act together so we can start prototyping something more concrete.  ceebee posted:Tech artists are awesome though, seems like they get best of the both worlds. Experimentation, problem solving, and occasionally creative freedom to make awesome things either for the game or for their team. I love my tech artist, and he is a genius (and probably gets paid triple what I do as a character artist) Yeah... Except that problem solving here can be either: "My Maya export plugin isn't working!" or: "I can't get this material looking right. We should update the shader." And it is a lot more of the former, and a lot less of the latter. So maybe for tech artists who like working on tools, but I know that I'd be bored to tears having to debug python scripts for tools.
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Aug 23, 2012 14:54
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ceebee posted:I've always had the perception that programming is significantly more stressful than an art path. I haven't met very many programmers that are veterans and love their job programming games for AAA studios. Most of the programmers I know that do love their jobs don't work in games, or work on an indie team. That seems like the way to go. Programmers might be slightly more bitter, given that we're the ones that ultimately have to fix ever panic inducing last minute discovery, but that's it. The job is just as fun as what art guys and design guys do, and we dig it.
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Aug 23, 2012 16:26
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But...it's words and math! How is that fun?
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Aug 23, 2012 16:34
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Monster w21 Faces posted:But...it's words and math! How is that fun? Wait wait wait, what do you think design is? 
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Aug 23, 2012 16:56
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Resource posted:Wait wait wait, what do you think design is? Collecting GOTY awards and getting interviewed by attractive IGN reporters?
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Aug 23, 2012 16:59
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Category Fun! posted:Collecting GOTY awards and getting interviewed by attractive IGN reporters? Makin reddit mad; one designer interview at a time
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Aug 23, 2012 17:11
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Resource posted:Wait wait wait, what do you think design is? Photoshop mockups and references to other successful games.
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Aug 23, 2012 17:36
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I tried going to school for a game design (programming focused) degree. I somehow completely botched it up by failing loving pre-cal (laugh if you wish) two months in a row by a few percent. Is there still hope? I know it's a vague question because I'm not really sure how to write it down.
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Aug 23, 2012 17:42
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Qualifications aren't the be all and end all in the games industry. Sure they are nice, but what really sells you is your portfolio and body of work. If you want to do design, design some stuff to show people!
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Aug 23, 2012 17:54
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PROTIP: don't edit UTPawn when creating a game in UDK, create your own class extension or you'll NEVER loving REMEMBER what you've changed. *slaps self*
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Aug 23, 2012 18:06
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concerned mom posted:Qualifications aren't the be all and end all in the games industry. Sure they are nice, but what really sells you is your portfolio and body of work. If you want to do design, design some stuff to show people! I got M.A. tagged on to the end of my name on my business card.  on cards i drew the art for  Akuma got a bitchin suit of armour too
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Aug 23, 2012 19:32
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Also your body is super important too. It's important to be hot. The games industry is beautiful people only.
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Aug 23, 2012 19:52
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Also your body is super important too. It's important to be hot. The games industry is beautiful people only. No we just only show those people to outsiders. Uggos are contained in a light-less room 24 hours a day, getting nourishment/removing waste through a tube. You must pass a beauty test to be able to leave.
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Aug 23, 2012 19:54
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Then why do I get sent out to see the publi...oh.
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Aug 23, 2012 20:16
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:No we just only show those people to outsiders. Uggos are contained in a light-less room 24 hours a day, getting nourishment/removing waste through a tube. You must pass a beauty test to be able to leave. We don't even get a lamp? 
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Aug 23, 2012 20:17
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Catagorical posted:We don't even get a lamp? If you want a lamp you picked the wrong industry bro. Game devs work in darkness, no windows.
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Aug 23, 2012 20:21
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concerned mom posted:If you want a lamp you picked the wrong industry bro. Game devs work in darkness, no windows. Except for that one loving guy. You know the one. The only person in the office who wants a lamp and so ruins the darkness for everyone.
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Aug 23, 2012 20:26
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Except for that one loving guy. You know the one. The only person in the office who wants a lamp and so ruins the darkness for everyone. Hey, what's up? Edit: I claim the artist exception clause, though.
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Aug 23, 2012 20:30
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The only thing artists are exempt from are mandatory drug screenings. Producers too.
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Aug 23, 2012 20:39
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Actually I'm that guy who insists on having the lights on and the blinds open. Owned coders of the world.
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Aug 23, 2012 20:45
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The only part of our office that doesn't have the lights on is the pod full of artists. Everyone else here likes to work in the light.
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Aug 23, 2012 20:47
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Windows open, definitely. Florescent lights on? HELL NO. Lamps? Ok. Edit: Natural light induces creativity, studies show.
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Aug 23, 2012 20:56
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