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Cream_Filling posted:Yeah, I think it's built up as a sort of The Art of War / Book of Five Rings meets the Army Ranger Handbook / military field manual sort of thing. Lots of philosophical stuff mixed in with general frameworks for force organization, procedures, response drills, etc. Nope! It's super specific and a chapter that has memorized the codex, being coordinated by commanders following the codex, operate almost as if they were being led by Gulliman himself. They've been going into this more and more in the more recent Heresy books.
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Aug 27, 2012 20:49
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Well, Guilliman himself did say that it would be stupid to follow it blindly. He remarked that the commander in the filed should be free to improvise (there is an assumption of complete knowledge of the battlefield, I'm assuming). I think this was thrown in as a nod to Ventris and the arguments people have been making here.
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Aug 27, 2012 21:51
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Trast posted:Are there any books or stories about how the Emperor functions on the golden throne? Is he some sort of barely there life force focused on keeping the navigational beacon working or is he able to communicate with his inner circle? I've read on the wiki that the Sisters of Battle in their origin were shown that they were being manipulated by a corrupt clergy when their leader was brought before the Emperor. I was curious if it was just being in his presence that convinced him or something more. In short, no. The Emperor is, depending on who you ask:
*This is the correct answer. Death to the False Emperor.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:02
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There's already at least 5 chaos gods. Possibly more.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:05
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Where is the fifth mentioned? I've seen it mentioned a couple times now, but have never heard of it.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:21
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TheStampede posted:Where is the fifth mentioned? I've seen it mentioned a couple times now, but have never heard of it. The fifth chaos god is one who must not be named (due to legal action). The fifth god is a sort of holdover from the earlier years of the game (both Warhammer Fantasy and later 40k), and was named Malal, the Renegeade God of Chaos. Malal is the god of anarchy, terror, and self-destruction, and is the chaos god who fights against chaos. Then GW lost the rights to the name due to issues with its original creators. Eventually it was mostly phased out due to these legal issues, though always hinted at as a sort of in-joke in various codexes and bits of fluff, just like the other oblique references to other mostly phased out stuff like squats, etc.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:29
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There are a few more Chaos gods floating around too, like Hashut, the Horned Rat, Furnex, Necoho (best god) etc....
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Aug 27, 2012 22:51
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Nephilm posted:Except the codex was laid down by a primarch, during and after the great crusade and accounting for the numerous threats they faced in their conquest of the galaxy and foreseeing for possible future strategic/tactical scenarios, and further added onto during the thousands of years since. The introduction of the Tyranids had them wrecking the Ultramarines poo poo so thoroughly they were forced to give up a planet they had oath-sworn to defend. Their chapter master went into a penance fast/mediation for a while and then decreed that adhering to the Codex was their undoing because nothing in it could account for the way Tyranids wage war/consume everything. But there are still moments of "But the Codex Astartes says...!" in W40k video games and books.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:22
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Arquinsiel posted:There are a few more Chaos gods floating around too, like Hashut, the Horned Rat, Furnex, Necoho (best god) etc.... My favorites are Ans'l, Mo'rcck, and Phraz-Etar.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:41
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Mo'rcck is pure "gently caress you" given how many times he sued them over stealing Fantasy wholesale from him.
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Aug 28, 2012 00:54
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I believe champions of Malal are usually depicted as turning albino, too 
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Aug 28, 2012 01:29
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Thulsa Doom posted:In short, no. The Emperor is, depending on who you ask: The option involving the Emperor waking up and being supremely pissed off at the state of humanity and it's worship of him would make for some pretty interesting fluff. But I doubt they'd ever pull the trigger on it and risk the gravy train. drkhrs2020 posted:But there are still moments of "But the Codex Astartes says...!" in W40k video games and books. The hero of Space Marine makes a point early on to the younger marine that the codex is there for instruction and not to be used to the letter. The younger marine takes it poorly. Though he does start fighting without his helmet like Titus and his sergeant.
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Aug 28, 2012 03:39
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Trast posted:The option involving the Emperor waking up and being supremely pissed off at the state of humanity and it's worship of him would make for some pretty interesting fluff. But I doubt they'd ever pull the trigger on it and risk the gravy train. I've heard rumors (that is to say, bullshit) of going into the even grimmer further future after the HH series is done, but those rumors are all nonsense and the HH series will continue until the heat death of the universe.
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Aug 28, 2012 03:56
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Thulsa Doom posted:I've heard rumors (that is to say, bullshit) of going into the even grimmer further future after the HH series is done, but those rumors are all nonsense and the HH series will continue until the heat death of the universe. Didn't they just say recently that they plan on doing more to fill in the last 10k years, given the success and popularity of the whole Badab War thing?
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Aug 28, 2012 07:27
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Trast posted:The option involving the Emperor waking up and being supremely pissed off at the state of humanity and it's worship of him would make for some pretty interesting fluff. But I doubt they'd ever pull the trigger on it and risk the gravy train.
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Aug 28, 2012 08:18
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Trast posted:The option involving the Emperor waking up and being supremely pissed off at the state of humanity and it's worship of him would make for some pretty interesting fluff. But I doubt they'd ever pull the trigger on it and risk the gravy train.
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Aug 28, 2012 10:45
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Thulsa Doom posted:
Fried Chicken posted:Didn't they just say recently that they plan on doing more to fill in the last 10k years, given the success and popularity of the whole Badab War thing? Arquinsiel posted:Mo'rcck is pure "gently caress you" given how many times he sued them over stealing Fantasy wholesale from him. Baron Bifford posted:I do not understand why writing the 42nd millenium will destroy interest in the 41st. You can write stories set in the Imperium's future just as much as you can in its past, with the tabletop game still firmly remaining in the 41st. Baron Bifford posted:I don't like the idea that the High Lords are a bunch of disingenous frauds. I like the idea that they're all deluded, doing what they THINK is the Emperor's will.
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Aug 28, 2012 13:18
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berzerkmonkey posted:Morcock never sued GW. He probably could have in the early days, but waaay too much time has elapsed and GW has pretty much made the concept their own at this point. Now GW has been sued by Tolkien - apparently, his estate owns the word "Dwarves" and that is why in the GW world more than one Dwarf is referred to as "Dwarfs."
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Aug 28, 2012 13:20
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berzerkmonkey posted:Huh? There is the Star Child fluff, but basically that entails him becoming the most powerful psychic being ever who will lead mankind to a glorious age. The fifth Chaos god thing is a result of the fall of mankind, like the fall of the Eldar. The idea is that much like the Eldar reached Peak Eldar and their own emotions exploded into sentience and devoured them, the Imperium will Imperium hard enough and created a Chaos God of Fanaticism or something. If, like, everyone in the Imperium was a Sister of Battle that could probably happen. Births of Chaos Gods tend to be kind of rough. quote:You can't write the future of 40K without affecting the game itself. In addition, once you make the decision to write in the future, you pretty much can't really continue to write the present any more or else everything becomes a big confusing mess. It really doesn't work. Yeah, last thing we want is 40k to be a confusing mess. They have a lot on their plate right now and putting out a future/50k setting, even in just novels, would slow everything else to a crawl, but I'd like to see them do it. Rather than write one "canon" series I'd rather see separate continuities, like a novel series where the Emperor gets up, one where the Emperor finally dies, one where the Eldar united into Ynnead, one where the Orks finally unite into the great Waaaaagh!, one where Chaos gets its poo poo together, etc. They could even do it as an Imperial Armor type thing through Forge World and I'd still buy it.
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Aug 28, 2012 14:01
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I really have no idea why some of you are so interested in seeing the "future" of 40k. The whole point of the setting is that it's the grim and dark and there is only war -- the stagnancy and galactic stalemate is a big part of the essence of 40k. The interesting stuff is what happens in between the lines, not "who would win if the Emperor woke up and at the same time the Tyranid main force arrived." That's some Goku vs. Superman poo poo. Baron Bifford's posts read like he just read a wikipedia article about 40k and is desperately seeking catharsis by finding out how everything resolves, and in doing so completely misses what makes 40k unique and fun.
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Aug 28, 2012 14:55
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Baron Bifford posted:I do not understand why writing the 42nd millenium will destroy interest in the 41st. You can write stories set in the Imperium's future just as much as you can in its past, with the tabletop game still firmly remaining in the 41st. They're running into a wall, and have done events,(Gothic War, War for Armageddon, 13th Black Crusade) all the way up to 999.M41, the last year of the 40th millennium. They can either pull a reboot like the World of Darkness franchise or just stay stagnant and no longer do any major worldwide events like they have in the past. Baron Bifford posted:I don't like the idea that the High Lords are a bunch of disingenous frauds. I like the idea that they're all deluded, doing what they THINK is the Emperor's will. They are the absolute top of the social/political/economic hierarchy, so they know the truth about all the religious bullshit and ongoing wars with the various alien races, so I highly doubt they're concerned with the Emperor outside of keeping the Astronomican working.
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Aug 28, 2012 14:57
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drkhrs2020 posted:They're running into a wall, and have done events,(Gothic War, War for Armageddon, 13th Black Crusade) all the way up to 999.M41, the last year of the 40th millennium. They can either pull a reboot like the World of Darkness franchise or just stay stagnant and no longer do any major worldwide events like they have in the past. Arquinsiel posted:Back when I paid attention to his website he mentioned having done it a few times. I didn't hear about Tolkien at all, it seems somewhat counter-productive to sue a company that you've licenced the thing to. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Aug 28, 2012 |
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Aug 28, 2012 15:10
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berzerkmonkey posted:Age of Apostasy? The Plague of Unbelief? Battle of the Fang? Numerous Foundings? Literally ten-thousand years of empty history into which they can easily shoehorn something? All the stuff you mentioned has happened in the last one-thousand years of 40K (M41.) I remember seeing a big rant written by Tolkien himself about how he invented the word therefore he owns it in one of the LotR appendices. EDIT: might have been in the Silmarillion actually. Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Aug 28, 2012 |
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Aug 28, 2012 15:20
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I really have no idea why some of you are so interested in seeing the "future" of 40k. The whole point of the setting is that it's the grim and dark and there is only war -- the stagnancy and galactic stalemate is a big part of the essence of 40k. The interesting stuff is what happens in between the lines, not "who would win if the Emperor woke up and at the same time the Tyranid main force arrived." That's some Goku vs. Superman poo poo. The stagnancy gets repetitive after a while. Just reading the same bolter porn over and over will eventually lose its charm, which is why the Heresy is such a big success, and produces some of the best writing from the Black Library. There's plenty of material between the Heresy and 999 M41 that can be covered but there's no reason not to look at the future, either, other than the tabletop end of the business being scared they'll ruin their IP.
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Aug 28, 2012 15:55
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So what happened to the water in the oceans on Terra. I know it had water pre heresy, and during the siege the oceans were "boiled away" but what actually happened to the water itself? It can't just be in vapor form, since terra would have to be an unlivably high temperature in order to keep it vaporous. I am pretty sure if you flash evaporated all of the earth's oceans, they would eventually refill, unless you removed the atmosphere. (Of course, I am sure that flash boiling the oceans would cause other, more pressing issues for everyone on earth.)
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Aug 28, 2012 17:23
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Thulsa Doom posted:The stagnancy gets repetitive after a while. Just reading the same bolter porn over and over will eventually lose its charm, which is why the Heresy is such a big success, and produces some of the best writing from the Black Library. There's plenty of material between the Heresy and 999 M41 that can be covered but there's no reason not to look at the future, either, other than the tabletop end of the business being scared they'll ruin their IP.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:28
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Isn't it the other way around? Fanboys buy the novels so they can fantasize about their Space Barbies. That would make sense if the novels are generally such crap.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:31
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drkhrs2020 posted:They are the absolute top of the social/political/economic hierarchy, so they know the truth about all the religious bullshit and ongoing wars with the various alien races, so I highly doubt they're concerned with the Emperor outside of keeping the Astronomican working.
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Aug 28, 2012 17:38
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jadebullet posted:So what happened to the water in the oceans on Terra. I know it had water pre heresy, and during the siege the oceans were "boiled away" but what actually happened to the water itself? It can't just be in vapor form, since terra would have to be an unlivably high temperature in order to keep it vaporous. I am pretty sure if you flash evaporated all of the earth's oceans, they would eventually refill, unless you removed the atmosphere. (Of course, I am sure that flash boiling the oceans would cause other, more pressing issues for everyone on earth.) It was already gone by the Heresy era. The ocean basins were settled and had hives built on them. Terra was basically a hive world even then. Arquinsiel posted:The novels exist to sell more space barbies. If they don't directly advance this cause then they don't need to exist. This probably does represent the thinking of GW, since they hate money for some reason.
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Aug 28, 2012 19:38
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Games Workshop hates money? I'll provide a rebuttal right after I finish painting my $40 plastic toy that I had to assemble myself.
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Aug 28, 2012 19:44
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Thulsa Doom posted:This probably does represent the thinking of GW, since they hate money for some reason. Yeah, I don't think you understand just how much those models cost. The margin and volume on books is nothing compared to that on tiny plastic space men.
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Aug 28, 2012 19:45
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I know how much the models cost, trust me. I was referring more to their weird licensing practices for the intellectual property and such.
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Aug 28, 2012 19:48
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Thulsa Doom posted:I know how much the models cost, trust me. I was referring more to their weird licensing practices for the intellectual property and such. You mean like for video games and stuff? I think they're rightly afraid that video games will cut into sales of models. Very few people like 40k just to play the game apart from the excellent fluff, especially since the rules are kind of outdated and clunky compared to other competing miniatures games. License fees are rarely going to be enormous. They'd rather do stuff in-house so they can control the quality, especially since the fluff is the biggest asset they have now. I know this sounds ridiculous, considering the middling-to-poor editorial standards at GW, but at the same time, quality standards for licensed IPs are often even worse for licensed derivative works.
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Aug 28, 2012 19:52
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Cream_Filling posted:Very few people like 40k just to play the game apart from the excellent fluff, especially since the rules are kind of outdated and clunky compared to other competing miniatures games.
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Aug 28, 2012 20:46
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Thulsa Doom posted:It was already gone by the Heresy era. The ocean basins were settled and had hives built on them. Terra was basically a hive world even then. So where did the water go? jadebullet fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Aug 28, 2012 |
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Aug 28, 2012 20:59
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jadebullet posted:So where did the water go? Displaced by hive development reaching miles above sea level and polluted beyond recognition as "water". 40k Terra looks like a grey metal orb when viewed from space; it's the most developed planet in the Imperium, and there are millions, possibly billions of people on Terra who have never even seen the surface. There are still oceans of chemical pollutants, though, which are discussed a bit in the Space Wolf book Wolfblade, so your H2O molecules would be there. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Aug 28, 2012 |
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Aug 28, 2012 21:04
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Baron Bifford posted:What is your favorite miniatures wargame out there? Warmachine and Hordes I love the setting and the rules are great. Also Trollkin and Gobbers are the best.
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Aug 28, 2012 21:29
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Baron Bifford posted:What is your favorite miniatures wargame out there? Space Hulk is pretty drat awesome, though it's questionable whether it's a wargame per se. I haven't actually personally played a full game of 40k since I was 13, but I've had plenty of incidental exposure to them since then. I played a little Warmachine once when my uber-nerd friend (who I borrow all my 40k books from because he gets like every single one as a review copy) tried it out. It seemed like a pretty good system. Battletech also had a wonky system, but personally I enjoyed it when I had the time for stuff like that. People have also said very good things about Infinity. The rules look pretty interesting to me, too.
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Aug 28, 2012 22:24
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Baron Bifford posted:Isn't it the other way around? Fanboys buy the novels so they can fantasize about their Space Barbies. That would make sense if the novels are generally such crap. Baron Bifford posted:What is your favorite miniatures wargame out there? Infinity and Battletech are also very fun, but Battletech is very much a relic of it's time, and Infinity is clearly an RPG that they filed the serial numbers off. Mechafunkzilla posted:Displaced by hive development reaching miles above sea level and polluted beyond recognition as "water". 40k Terra looks like a grey metal orb when viewed from space; it's the most developed planet in the Imperium, and there are millions, possibly billions of people on Terra who have never even seen the surface. There are still oceans of chemical pollutants, though, which are discussed a bit in the Space Wolf book Wolfblade, so your H2O molecules would be there.
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Aug 29, 2012 01:12
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Arquinsiel posted:Using Coruscant logic there are probably horrible steam clouds floating around the planet from all the people and industry. Someone did the maths on Coruscant and apparently it should be physically impossible to keep it cool enough for humans to survive. Holy Terra is a horrible place to live. You can safely assume that most of the atmosphere isn't safe for unmodified or unprotected humans, that the parts that are breathable are kept that way using technomagic, and that the rich or well-off-enough live in altogether sealed habs. Also, the bulk of the oceans had been boiled off long before the Great Crusade, to the point that the blue planet was already a distant memory. How it happened is anyone's guess, but considering the technology available to humanity at the time it isn't very far-fetched to think it possible. Where did the water go? Perhaps stripped off the upper atmosphere by solar wind, don't know.
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Aug 29, 2012 01:49
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