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I am going to give rebuilding a shot.
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Sep 1, 2012 00:42
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Well, it recreated just fine, but Windows still saw the space as unallocated. I restarted and now it's just hanging on the RAID boot ROM.
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Sep 1, 2012 00:51
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Bea Nanner posted:Well, it recreated just fine, but Windows still saw the space as unallocated. I restarted and now it's just hanging on the RAID boot ROM. Basically never use fakeraid. Either use software raid for free or spend the $$$ for real hardware raid and maybe a backup card or two just in case the main one fails.
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Sep 1, 2012 00:53
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Can you give me some examples of these? I'm in the dark here.
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Sep 1, 2012 00:55
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Bea Nanner posted:Well, it recreated just fine, but Windows still saw the space as unallocated. I restarted and now it's just hanging on the RAID boot ROM. Was windows showing one large disk or individual drives?
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Sep 1, 2012 01:00
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Moey posted:Was windows showing one large disk or individual drives? It was showing individual drives until I created the logical drive and then it only had the one drive. So I have assigned it a drive letter and initialized it, but I haven't formatted it. So it says RAW next to the name in Disk Management and pretty much anything I try to do, Windows says to format first. Are there any data recovery tools I could use to get this stuff back? I'm willing to cut my losses and do this right. Can someone spec me out a decent card/enclosure (open to both, not really sure the pros and cons)? What HDs are recommended for RAID in the 3TB+ range? e: ohh, and the BIOS ROM only hung the first time. Everything restarts fine now. vOv e2: I don't want to gently caress around in Linux if I don't have to (heresy in these parts, I'm sure). What is a good card/enclosure? Is this one I linked earlier any good? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816103220 Bea Nanner fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 01:06
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Bea Nanner posted:Can you give me some examples of these? I'm in the dark here. Fakeraid is the catchall term for all raid implemented in firmware/chip drivers. Intel matrix raid or the AMD raid you're using are examples of this. Software raid is raid implemented in software, mdraid in linux or zfs' version of raid are the most commonly discussed in here. Hardware raid examples are those several hundred dollar raid cards you can buy that handle everything by themselves. Bea Nanner posted:It was showing individual drives until I created the logical drive and then it only had the one drive. If you're not very technically minded or don't want to bother with all the hassle you might consider just buying something like a NAS. If you're extremely lucky maybe one of those NAS brands support the WD green drives you're using right now. I mean, if you're looking into 500+ dollar raid cards yet admit you don't know what you're doing... Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 01:08
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I had a decent idea of what I was doing until everything blew up in my face. I know this poo poo ain't cheap and I'm willing to spend to do it right. Are there cheaper solutions?
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Sep 1, 2012 01:14
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Bea Nanner posted:So I have assigned it a drive letter and initialized it, but I haven't formatted it. So it says RAW next to the name in Disk Management and pretty much anything I try to do, Windows says to format first. Are there any data recovery tools I could use to get this stuff back? If I were you at this point I would be trying some free data recovery tool. I just googled that one so make sure to do your own research. It doesn't sound like any disks died, just the software decided to blow up. http://www.freeraidrecovery.com/ You will still need space to copy the data until you build something more stable. As for longterm, take a read of this thread. People are big fans of FreeNAS and the newer fork of it, NAS4Free. You can either pick out your own case and board, or get something like the HP NL40. If you want to go off the shelf solution, take a look at QNAP and Thecus' offerings.
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Sep 1, 2012 01:25
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So I've gotten a bit bored with waiting for N40Ls to be available at the prices people in this thread have thrown out ... It doesn't seem like they're often available for less than $350 (what I can find it for right now). If I WERE going to buy one of the pre-rolled NAS solutions, like the DNS-343, which one should I buy? I've got 4 drives which are ready to go in it, so the only real requirement is that it can RAID four 2TB drives and that I don't need one with drives, I guess.
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Sep 1, 2012 01:29
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Bea Nanner posted:I had a decent idea of what I was doing until everything blew up in my face. I know this poo poo ain't cheap and I'm willing to spend to do it right. Are there cheaper solutions? If you're okay with having all raid storage be an appliance then you can go the turnkey NAS route with free options such as FreeNAS or spend some money for NAS appliances from your favorite vendor such as the mentioned QNAP or Synology. Alternatively a linux box with mdraid is also free and not very hard, there are also turnkey linux NAS distributions to make it even easier. If you actually want the raid to be inside your windows box and you are sure you want windows then yea, time to spend some money. Krakkles posted:So I've gotten a bit bored with waiting for N40Ls to be available at the prices people in this thread have thrown out ... It doesn't seem like they're often available for less than $350 (what I can find it for right now). QNAP and Synology both have been mentioned in the thread so maybe look at those brands. You should be able to find a 4 bay for under $500 and maybe even under $400 for the lower end slower arm soc models. Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 01:29
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What sort of drives should I get if not WD green, in the 3TB+ range?
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Sep 1, 2012 01:37
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Longinus00 posted:QNAP and Synology both have been mentioned in the thread so maybe look at those brands. You should be able to find a 4 bay for under $500 and maybe even under $400 for the lower end slower arm soc models.
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Sep 1, 2012 01:54
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Bea Nanner posted:What sort of drives should I get if not WD green, in the 3TB+ range? What are you sticking them into? If it's some specialized hardware (a NAS or RAID card) then you should try to find a list of "certified" drives for that piece of hardware. If you're just doing software raid then hitachis or WD reds would work. You could also splurge on WD RE4 and equivalents if you're convinced spending more money will help.
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Sep 1, 2012 02:02
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Bea Nanner posted:What sort of drives should I get if not WD green, in the 3TB+ range? This thread is littered with a lot of advise and other's specs if you have the time to search. These are on sale for the weekend as well. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844 Edit: As mentioned above, what route are you going for enclosure/setup?
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Sep 1, 2012 02:02
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Moey posted:As mentioned above, what route are you going for enclosure/setup? It looks like I need an enclosure to get a proper setup and still keep my HTPC box. So I guess something like one of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822107082 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822102074 Though Synology seems to have the capability to buy an extra enclosure which allows you to add additional drives to your array. Is that something other companies don't offer? But I think 6 bays is probably enough room to grow.
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Sep 1, 2012 02:22
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Bea Nanner posted:It looks like I need an enclosure to get a proper setup and still keep my HTPC box. What are your requirements for this? Uses? Performance needed? When getting into the larger off the shelf NAS units, their prices seem to skyrocket compared to a proper roll your own solution. Also, is everything you are storing replaceable? Or is this something where you absolutely want to have a live copy on a redundant array + a separate backup? 9+ tb is a lot of data, so keeping it properly backed up is going to add into the cost.
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Sep 1, 2012 03:13
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Uses: digital theater, music collection, game repository, torrent box (maybe?), ftp, serve media to portable devices I know I could just throw together another box, but having something slick and portable has additional value to me. I plan to move internationally in a few months, so something small and well built is important. I guess now that I have these extra drives I will be doing a backup of the most important stuff, but I don't want a secondary RAID or anything.
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Sep 1, 2012 03:28
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The problem with the cheap fakeraid cards and onboard solutions is that they're proprietary, have relatively few users and as such finding information on how to fix them when something goes wrong is really difficult. Many raid controllers like to zero data when they initialize a logical drive so if you've already told the controller to recreate the missing raid and windows aren't seeing any partitions it probably did that. Dedicated NAS boxes at least have decent vendor support and rarely go wrong, but for $1000 you could build a monster 20-bay freenas server around a regular motherboard, jbod sas controller and one of these http://www.ipcdirect.net/servlet/Detail?no=202 Software raids built around dedicated servers for mdraid or zfs on linux/freebsd/solaris are well proven in the enterprise market, so the time invested learning the unix command line basics might be worth it (and if you get good at it it's a useful work skill too!) I just built a 8 drive raid6 (raidz2) at home using WD Red drives, these have firmware better suited to raid but many people are using WD Greens with no issues. It's just very important that whatever hardware you have knows how to deal with the green drives and their aggressive head parking and very long bad block read timeouts. Annoyingly, the 3TB WD red is pretty much sold out everywhere at the moment.
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Sep 1, 2012 06:53
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error1 posted:Dedicated NAS boxes at least have decent vendor support and rarely go wrong, but for $1000 you could build a monster 20-bay freenas server around a regular motherboard, jbod sas controller and one of these http://www.ipcdirect.net/servlet/Detail?no=202 I can't imagine the noise/heat from that, and I see no purpose of having 20 drives in a household setting even for the biggest packrats, but drat that seems pretty sweet. It is very intimidating to set up and understand and I'm not sure I understand volume expansion on zfs. Quick googling doesn't make it sound easy and, again on a budget, anyone planning to add disks as needed would probably benefit from the ease of volume expansion that some of these vendors supply. I still think for anyone on a budget that values form factor & noise, you can't beat an off the shelf solution. But maybe I'm lazy.
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Sep 1, 2012 07:49
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sellouts posted:I can't imagine the noise/heat from that, and I see no purpose of having 20 drives in a household setting even for the biggest packrats, but drat that seems pretty sweet. It is very intimidating to set up and understand and I'm not sure I understand volume expansion on zfs. Quick googling doesn't make it sound easy and, again on a budget, anyone planning to add disks as needed would probably benefit from the ease of volume expansion that some of these vendors supply. A HP microserver is cheaper than those 4/5 bay off the shelf solutions. It can also do way more than just simple fileserving if you want.
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Sep 1, 2012 10:49
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Longinus00 posted:A HP microserver is cheaper than those 4/5 bay off the shelf solutions. It can also do way more than just simple fileserving if you want. Best case scenario is they're the same price as something like a DNS-343 or a Synology DS411j, but lack an OS.
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Sep 1, 2012 18:10
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Yeah I'm not sure I see them being as cheap as some of these other solutions. I also don't see a good way for FreeNAS to expand volumes seamlessly? I like the proprietary systems that let me spread cost out across time depending on how quickly i fill a newly added disk.
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Sep 1, 2012 19:27
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With ZFS you either add a new vdev (like a raid group), or replace all the drives (1 by 1) in an existing vdev while letting it resilver between swaps.
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Sep 1, 2012 20:38
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evil_bunnY posted:With ZFS you either add a new vdev (like a raid group), or replace all the drives (1 by 1) in an existing vdev while letting it resilver between swaps. Thank you so much for this. Zfs and raidz are new to me and I was all confused how they work differently than raid. How long would it take to resilver 1TB of data?
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Sep 2, 2012 00:25
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Resilvering speed depends upon redundancy settings and speed of drives. I resilvered a 2TB drive in my 4-drive RAIDZ1 with Western Digital Green drives in several hours (overnight).
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Sep 2, 2012 00:39
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necrobobsledder posted:Resilvering speed depends upon redundancy settings and speed of drives. I resilvered a 2TB drive in my 4-drive RAIDZ1 with Western Digital Green drives in several hours (overnight).
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Sep 2, 2012 01:04
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Also it is my personal opinion that if you're using the swap+resilver method to upgrade anything but a raidz2 vdev you're loving batshit.
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Sep 2, 2012 01:10
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I think the average is for 1 unrecoverable read error every 12TB. So if you're resilvering around 10 or more TB yeah thats dangerous. Just cloned a 4-drive raid5 by swapping out at 8 hours per 1.5 tb drive. Never again!
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Sep 2, 2012 02:33
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Krakkles posted:I've been watching for these supposed cheap HP microservers for over 2 months and they haven't happened yet. Unless you install windows on it the OS should be free and will let you do far more than you could with opware pacakges. The microserver is nice in this sense because the CPU has AMDV and you can fit lots of ECC memory for vm hosting goodness. sellouts posted:Yeah I'm not sure I see them being as cheap as some of these other solutions. I also don't see a good way for FreeNAS to expand volumes seamlessly? How is it more not as cheap as? A N40L is at the very least as cheap as the cheapest 4 bay NASs and a N36L is cheaper still. You also don't have to use freenas if it confuses you even though expanding a zfs raid in a limited enclosure is pretty much the same as expanding a regular raid5/6 (replace each disk one at a time rebuilding the array as you go). You could use a linux based solution (e.g. openfiler) and you would pretty much have exactly the same thing as you have on those proprietary solutions which all run linux. I have no idea what your last sentence means. Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Sep 2, 2012 |
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Sep 2, 2012 03:06
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The danger I see of these turnkey NAS solutions to me is that these systems have rather minimal RAM, really slow CPUs (slower than older Atoms, for example), and the various media services like those "iTunes" servers (some DAAPD server that'll crash upon firing up with 4000+ files), torrent servers that top out at maybe 8 torrents, etc. If your needs really are just dumping files onto a big volume completely separate from any service, that's probably fine. The crux of the matter is that most people on these forums are looking for more than that or will almost certainly outgrow it very quickly. The sheer amount of money I've spent on short-term turnkey solutions thinking "it'll be good enough" only to be forced into another tier or custom quickly is enough for me to sway people from easy to use solutions. The way that these get packaged and setup by these companies mean you don't get as much as if you had spent the same (typically).
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Sep 2, 2012 04:11
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Longinus00 posted:I have no idea what your last sentence means. I'm pretty sure he means that he wants something with drobo-like functionality where you can have lets say a 1TB, 2TB, and a 3TB drive with parity protection. Once you start running low on space, you just pop in whatever you can pick up on sale and it adds it into the pool. This is exactly what I want as well. I've been playing with Win8/Server2012 Storage Spaces thinking this would be the solution for this, but the more I play with it the more it just seems unfinished. The deal-breaker issue for me is as near as I can tell there is no way to gracefully evacuate a drive. You can "retire", but this just essentially puts the pool in a degraded state and starts the rebuild process as if the disk had died. This means if you have smart errors on a drive or run out of bays and want to upgrade a smaller drive you will need to cross your fingers that you don't lose a disk after you retire it - if so you may be hosed. Here's to hoping it is addressed in sp1 I guess *sigh* Ruling out Storage Spaces it looks like the options are a drobo (and I've heard some scary stories about this), add-in stuff like flexRAID that is scary in its own "hacky" way, or unraid that I haven't played with yet. I foresee more dropping $500+ every time I need more storage to get a new set of at least 4 drives to raid5/Z in my future. 
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Sep 2, 2012 04:50
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Fancy_Lad posted:I foresee more dropping $500+ every time I need more storage to get a new set of at least 4 drives to raid5/Z in my future. This is where most of us are at; the only bright side here is that reselling the old drives will get you a decent bit of money to go towards the new ones, just by virtue of the fact that you have more of them to sell.
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Sep 2, 2012 04:56
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Fancy_Lad posted:I'm pretty sure he means that he wants something with drobo-like functionality where you can have lets say a 1TB, 2TB, and a 3TB drive with parity protection. Once you start running low on space, you just pop in whatever you can pick up on sale and it adds it into the pool. This is exactly what I want as well. I believe synology has a very similar feature. Basically an automatic way of splitting raid volumes over heterogeneous disks to maximize redundant space with LVM on top. http://www.synology.com/dsm/highlight_synology_hybrid_raid.php?lang=us Fancy_Lad posted:I've been playing with Win8/Server2012 Storage Spaces thinking this would be the solution for this, but the more I play with it the more it just seems unfinished. The deal-breaker issue for me is as near as I can tell there is no way to gracefully evacuate a drive. You can "retire", but this just essentially puts the pool in a degraded state and starts the rebuild process as if the disk had died. This means if you have smart errors on a drive or run out of bays and want to upgrade a smaller drive you will need to cross your fingers that you don't lose a disk after you retire it - if so you may be hosed. Here's to hoping it is addressed in sp1 I guess *sigh* ZFS is pretty incomparable to those other raid solution. It offers checksumming among other things which have influenced its design enough to make it hard to add features such as "shrink a volume". If you are comparing it to solutions without such features maybe you could have just used a ext+mdraid solution which is way more open to things such as removing disks and shrinking. Maybe in a year once btrfs supports parity levels beyond mirroring you'll get the best of both worlds but until then the difference in how zfs and other raid solutions handles your data is pretty wide.
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Sep 2, 2012 09:00
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Longinus00 posted:I believe synology has a very similar feature. Basically an automatic way of splitting raid volumes over heterogeneous disks to maximize redundant space with LVM on top. http://www.synology.com/dsm/highlight_synology_hybrid_raid.php?lang=us Very nice... I suppose if you can get away with 4 bays and don't have anything currently this is a good solution. If you are looking at the whole picture for cost savings, the 8 bay units aren't quite such an easy sell if you are willing to roll your own... Especially if you have some old hardware sitting around that could be re-purposed to some sort of file server. Longinus00 posted:ZFS is pretty incomparable to those other raid solution. It offers checksumming among other things which have influenced its design enough to make it hard to add features such as "shrink a volume". If you are comparing it to solutions without such features maybe you could have just used a ext+mdraid solution which is way more open to things such as removing disks and shrinking. Maybe in a year once btrfs supports parity levels beyond mirroring you'll get the best of both worlds but until then the difference in how zfs and other raid solutions handles your data is pretty wide. Oh, I'm not complaining that it isn't a feature of ZFS, I just put ZFS in there since it seems like the best solution if you have already resigned yourself to the idea that you are going to need to buy a bunch of like-sized disks for your next upgrade. Yeah, ext+mdraid is more comparable - I've got a few Windows-only things that my 24/7 server does so I'm currently using Windows Server RAID5 for my bulk media storage that is very similar. I've been thinking about upgrading the server to an AIO ESXi based solution so I've been looking at what other options there are for everything I do right now. I'm just venting that heterogeneous disk pools aren't as simple as I figured they would be by this time.
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Sep 2, 2012 15:07
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Longinus00 posted:Unless you install windows on it the OS should be free and will let you do far more than you could with opware pacakges. The microserver is nice in this sense because the CPU has AMDV and you can fit lots of ECC memory for vm hosting goodness. I guess this thread isn't really for me -- in that I don't need it to do anything but serve me files over the network and grow as I run out of space with additional backups/media/etc. I don't need to run VMs. I guess I'm simple. Fancy_Lad pretty much nailed it. If I buy a Synology 8 bay enclosure, I put in 3 drives. I can add a 4th very easily using whatever the gently caress they call their (at least proprietorially named) Synology Hybrid-Raid or SHR-2 filesystem in a few months when usage requires. With zfs it sounds like I need to max out my enclosure right now or it's a pain to add an additional disk every now and then.
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Sep 2, 2012 20:36
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sellouts posted:I guess this thread isn't really for me -- in that I don't need it to do anything but serve me files over the network and grow as I run out of space with additional backups/media/etc. I don't need to run VMs. I guess I'm simple. This weekend I've been testing Amahi and it's interesting. It includes a drive pooling system like windows home server. So you can add whatever sized drives and any data that you require to be redundant you need to indicate that. Other than any redundancy it makes your collection of drives into one giant hard drive. It has a heap of other neat features such as local applications that you can use a url for the application on your local network. Setting it up was pretty easy, install Ubuntu then just type a few commands to install and configure, then log into the amahi system to put in a few details. It also gives you a dynamic dns at yourhda.com. It's easily the least effort home server I've ever set up.
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Sep 2, 2012 23:49
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sellouts posted:I guess this thread isn't really for me -- in that I don't need it to do anything but serve me files over the network and grow as I run out of space with additional backups/media/etc. I don't need to run VMs. I guess I'm simple. Fancy_Lad was saying the opposite. The 8 bay nas enclosure costs 3 times as much as their 4 bay consumer enclosure. How is that a smart idea unless you specifically need the extra speed of the 8 bay from the get go? If you roll your own with a free solution adding disks to mdraid+lvm is really easy. If you use a prebuilt turnkey distro like openfiler or amahi then you can add disk by clicking some buttons, just like in those pricey proprietary solutions. Basically stop comparing every paid solution to a single solution that you don't like/understand and making generalizations from that.
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Sep 3, 2012 01:55
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I'm going to start with 4 discs and I want the ability to expand easily. 8 disks seems to be a good size? My generalizations are simplifications based on what I'd like in a system and my biggest misunderstanding about zfs, to each their own. Sorry if it came across another way. Thanks for the rec on Openfiler and Amahi, I'm going to look into them.
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Sep 3, 2012 02:25
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Devian666 posted:This weekend I've been testing Amahi and it's interesting. It includes a drive pooling system like windows home server. So you can add whatever sized drives and any data that you require to be redundant you need to indicate that. Other than any redundancy it makes your collection of drives into one giant hard drive. Holy poo poo, that's slick as hell. I could actually see switching to that from my Nexenta based setup on my next drive swap.
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Sep 3, 2012 02:35
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