Baracula posted:

Aren't some of those symbols kosher certification? I thought the EDL were down with the jews

Tias posted:

In theory, meat should be butchered by Dhabihah to be halal. This means that you say an islamic prayer, though I would think many muslims will accept kosher meats on the grounds that the important part is the merciful execution of the slaughter in question, not so much if if every single animal is blessed by the butcher.

Tias posted:

In theory, meat should be butchered by Dhabihah to be halal. This means that you say an islamic prayer, though I would think many muslims will accept kosher meats on the grounds that the important part is the merciful execution of the slaughter in question, not so much if if every single animal is blessed by the butcher.

LP97S posted:

Likewise, those who wish to make it an issue believe that a prayer is uttered each time an animal is slaughtered and is part of the secret Islamic Super-Allah Shock takeover of America, like noted racist and listed source in Anders Breivik's manifesto 2083: A European Declaration of Independence Pamela Geller believes.

Baracula posted:

Aren't some of those symbols kosher certification? I thought the EDL were down with the jews

goddamnedtwisto posted:

It's slightly complicated. Some (most) Muslims are absolutely fine with kosher meat as-is as they accept Jews as Brothers Of The Book, and consider Jehovah and Allah's name to be interchangeable to satisfy the requirement for the slaughter of the animal to be in the name of Allah (the actual mechanics of the slaughter being the same).

Some are a bit more hardcore and make an additional prayer over the meat to "convert" it to halal, and there's a bit of holy lawyering for them - slaughterhouses will have a Jewish person make the slaughter and then a Muslim person say a prayer over the meat as it leaves the assembly line or vice versa so as to be able to satisfy the more conservative members of both religion.

There's also a growing community who, similar to Reformed Judaism, see the requirement as actually just to eat clean food prepared properly and so accept any non-haraam food without the need for the ritual - particularly those who know or suspect the truth, that the vast majority of "blessing" is purely theoretical in modern butchering and that the certification bodies just rock up once a year to make sure there's someone of the right faith on site at some point.

This, by the way, is why there are quite a few different certification marks for both kosher and halal, to reflect these differing standards - so one mark simply certifies there's no pork (or camel, for that matter) or insects or other forbidden matter in it, one certifies that the kill is actually made with the prayer (IIRC there are two different prayers too and some marks differentiate), one that it's kosher for Passover, etc.


Well in theory a prayer is said over each animal as the killing cut is made (I say in theory because most modern slaughtering is done entirely mechanically, they might have a guy looking over the machine saying a prayer once in a while). The question is, why should Christians give a poo poo? I've never quite understood this weird inferiority complex they have over things like this. It reminds me of that bullshit about coating bullets in pigs blood - if you're a Christian surely you believe a Muslim is going to Hell anyway, regardless of how they die? Likewise why would a prayer to a god you think doesn't exist (quiet at the back there with that Abrahammic poo poo) possibly shake your ability to go to Heaven?

Lamuella posted:

I have heard some people express concern over the supposed cruelty of the halal slaughtering technique, but I haven't looked into it much. Can anyone shed light on this?

Ichabod Sexbeast posted:

It's actually a lot quicker and painless than generic industrial abbatoirs, but it's evil and cruel because MUSLAMICS

goddamnedtwisto posted:

Well, normal slaughter uses pretty much the same technique except it also severs the spinal cord. Leaving the blood in makes like much harder when handling the carcass, so exsanguination is a standard step.

The big concern is that both kosher and halal laws prohibit stunning of the animal before slaughter, something which has been standard practice for years. The prohibition against stunning is because the stunning occasionally kills the animal, meaning it died other than in the ritual fashion. (The stunning has little to do with the welfare of the animal, it just makes them easier to handle).

There's been quite a bit of experimentation to try to determine how much distress the animal feels, with the conclusion that it can go either way, in particular because stunning is imprecise and can leave them semi-conscious and in considerable pain for several minutes compared to the few seconds of pain and distress an animal feels after having its throat cut.

(There's also a side debate over whether the jig used to make the butchers life easier, which holds the animal upside down to make cutting the throat easier, causes undue distress and as such whether that is also haraam as one of the points of the ritual is to minimise pain and suffering to the animal).

Ichabod Sexbeast posted:

It's actually a lot quicker and painless than generic industrial abbatoirs, but it's evil and cruel because MUSLAMICS

goddamnedtwisto posted:

Well, normal slaughter uses pretty much the same technique except it also severs the spinal cord. Leaving the blood in makes like much harder when handling the carcass, so exsanguination is a standard step.

The big concern is that both kosher and halal laws prohibit stunning of the animal before slaughter, something which has been standard practice for years. The prohibition against stunning is because the stunning occasionally kills the animal, meaning it died other than in the ritual fashion. (The stunning has little to do with the welfare of the animal, it just makes them easier to handle).

There's been quite a bit of experimentation to try to determine how much distress the animal feels, with the conclusion that it can go either way, in particular because stunning is imprecise and can leave them semi-conscious and in considerable pain for several minutes compared to the few seconds of pain and distress an animal feels after having its throat cut.

(There's also a side debate over whether the jig used to make the butchers life easier, which holds the animal upside down to make cutting the throat easier, causes undue distress and as such whether that is also haraam as one of the points of the ritual is to minimise pain and suffering to the animal).

Stottie Kyek posted:

EDL bastards spray graffiti on a young family's new home.

My favourite part (if that's the word) is that these fine examples of the master race drew their Nazi swastika the wrong way round.

LP97S posted:

Likewise, those who wish to make it an issue believe that a prayer is uttered each time an animal is slaughtered and is part of the secret Islamic Super-Allah Shock takeover of America, like noted racist and listed source in Anders Breivik's manifesto 2083: A European Declaration of Independence Pamela Geller believes.

duck monster posted:

Apparently there was some IDF folks throwing the theory around of having pork fat through busses to deter muslims from suiciding. I'm sure the local rabbi was face-palming like loving crazy when he heard that, because the prohibition is identical in both faiths (and neither faiths feature a bonkers god who will send his martyrs to hell because some darstardly infidel put some pig on the body.)

Tias posted:

Why am I not suprised at DL loons having the same fetishes as Freerepublic.com?

quote:

Our grandparents knew what it was like to fight for our nation’s survival, but most people today have no conception of what it is like to be at war.

quote:

This reluctance to accept that a threat to our own way of life exists is sometimes called a “normalcy bias”. If we don’t know what something is like, then we find it difficult to imagine. Unfortunately, no matter how much we’d like to deny it, the way of life our grandparents fought for is under threat. And we are the only ones who can do anything about it.

quote:

Kevin Carroll, intends to stand as a candidate for Police and Crime Commissioner for Bedfordshire (1). If he is successful, then the authorities in that area will have to start listening to some of the legitimate grievances of the British working class today.

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Politicians today don’t care about the British working class. They don’t listen to us; they hold us in contempt. And that needs to change, because at the end of the day, we don’t work for them — they work for us.

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When anyone from the working class stands up today and speaks about some of the very real problems which have arisen as a consequence of the British government secretly implementing a policy of uncontrollable immigration and enforced multiculturalism (8, 9, 10), they’re persecuted for doing so.

quote:

The distance between working class people in Britain and the political class has never been greater, and it’s felt throughout the country. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation spoke at length with people living in what they called “white working class” communities in Birmingham, London and Coventry as part of a study they did in 2011.

Those were not “white working class” communities at all; there were significant numbers of immigrants living there, they have been the targets of government funded “community cohesion” programmes, and their local councils, in which the immigrant populations were well represented, ignored the concerns of the white people living there.

It’s more accurate to say that the Joseph Rowntree Foundation went into areas that had been affected by ideologically driven social engineering policies, where immigrants were automatically given priority in every meaningful way over native Brits of English, Scottish, and Irish extraction, and where everyone living there who was working class and happened to be white were systematically marginalised and ignored. The researchers talked to the victims of those government policies.

The researchers were told time and again that working class people share the following values: a strong work ethic, respect for themselves and others, collective values and reciprocal support. In academic language, the report states that “participants across study areas emphasised a framework or code of working class principles. In this way, identity could be maintained. People could understand, in a common sense way, that they were similar” (11).

The researchers eventually realised that working class identity is based not on skin colour at all, but on working class values which “some newcomers might not share” (12).

No poo poo Sherlock!

quote:

"Most of the discussion and debate focused on minority communities but not exclusively. Newcomers could also be composed of middle-class people gentrifying Somers Town or students moving into Canley."

quote:

John Stuart Mill wrote that silencing a dissenting opinion is “robbing the human race” because if that opinion turns out to be right, then people are deprived of the opportunity to exchange error for truth (14). Mill wrote that “the opinion which it is attempted to suppress by authority may possibly be true. Those who desire to suppress it, of course deny its truth; but they are not infallible” (15).

[...]

The English Defence League and British Freedom are also speaking the truth about the doctrines of Islam, and about its history. The facts of the matter are accessible to everyone who cares to find out: there are books on the history of Islam that are accessible to everyone, by respected authors like William Montgomery Watt, Hugh Kennedy, Ernle Bradford, Roger Crowley and so forth. And one of the best ways to find out about Islamic doctrines is to actually read for yourself the foundational texts of Islam: The Koran and the Hadith.

quote:

Police and crime commissioners (PCCs) will aim to cut crime and deliver an effective and efficient police service within their force area.

To provide stronger and more transparent accountability of the police, PCCs will be elected by the public to hold chief constables and the force to account; effectively making the police answerable to the communities they serve.

Police and crime commissioners will ensure community needs are met as effectively as possible, and will improve local relationships through building confidence and restoring trust. They will also work in partnership across a range of agencies at local and national level to ensure there is a unified approach to preventing and reducing crime.

PCCs will not be expected to run the police. The role of the PCC is to be the voice of the people and hold the police to account.

quote:

• An end to cuts in the police service.

quote:

• Substantial improvements to pay and conditions of officers on the street, who are at the sharp end of crime and disorder in Britain.

quote:

• An end to political correctness, which is forced on officers by their politicised superiors, hampering their ability to deal with serious crime. Officers tackling crime out on the street need to know that they have 100% backing of their superiors.

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• An end to ‘two-tier’ policing. The law should apply equally to all sections of the community.

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• Strong policing of anti-social behaviour that blights the lives of many families.

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• No more police time wasted on manning speed traps.

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• A crackdown on the dealing of hard drugs.

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• The police force once again focused on dramatically reducing serious crime — criminals and organised gangs should fear the consequences of their actions.

quote:

"What does 'abstain' mean?"

quote:

The British National Party’s subtly-named “truth truck” ground to a halt in Sunderland, after becoming wedged under a low bridge.

Members of the far-right nationalist party were returning from a lunchtime demonstration outside a branch of sandwich chain Subway this weekend, to protest against their use of halal meat.

But as the truck, emblazoned with the party’s slogans and heart-shaped Union Jacks, headed towards the store, it became jammed under a bridge in the Sheepfolds area of the city.

Fluo posted:

A friend I know, use to work in slaughterhouses (which ended up making him a vegan) says the boltguns sometimes just smashes the skull of cows into tiny pieces and having them still conscious and you hear them mooing as they were being skinned alive.

ekuNNN posted:

Independent posted:

King’s Cross staff threaten walk out in protest at EDL using station as demonstration rallying point

Passengers travelling to the Paralympics face major disruption today after staff at King’s Cross in London vowed to walk out in protest at supporters of the far-right English Defence League using the station as a rallying point for a demonstration in the north of the capital. Staff members have complained that they faced abuse at the hands of the EDL as they headed to a similar protest last year. A spokesman for the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) said staff would take the step – in a bid to close the Underground station - in order to protect themselves and the public.

“Staff will walk away from work on the grounds of safety, if nothing else,” said an RMT spokesman yesterday. He added: “we are talking about an organisation which has a track record of violence and our staff have reported problems in the past.” RMT members have privately talked about shutting the station down. However, their bosses at Transport for London insisted yesterday that the station would remain open and said that their talks with the Metropolitan Police and British Transport Police indicated no immediate danger to staff or to the public.

Police sought to ban last year’s march, which saw clashes between the EDL and their opponents, and staff at King’s Cross closed the entrance to the tube for around half an hour.

Staff are understood to be unhappy with the approach to last year’s EDL demonstration in Walthamstow. Some said they have decided to take action themselves to stop the group travelling from the station to Blackhorse Road tube station in north London, where this year’s march is due to start. Some of those involved are also believed to be ideologically opposed to the EDL and will seek to block their march if possible. Plans seen by the Independent indicate that some staff at King’s Cross station are planning to “organise halting [the marchers] getting on to the system in the first place”. The plans continue: “The obvious point of exit is Blackhorse Road. We need to close this station down (as opposed to just withdrawing to places of safety) and then Walthamstow when the risk is transferred.

“We mustn’t do this too early because we’ll only hinder the counter demonstration that’s assembling at Walthamstow at 11. In other words, we close Blackhorse Road and Walthamstow stations at the point when the risk actually presents itself. We need to draft up a simple pro forma on refusal to work on the grounds of health and safety on account of the serious and imminent risk presented by the EDL to staff and passengers." In an email, organisers said they planned to “refuse to work, close the station and insist that the service [does not stop there] as a result.”

They said they expected around 500 EDL members to attend the demonstration and anti-EDL groups have vowed to hold counter demonstrations. A TfL spokesperson said: “The safety of our staff and customers is our first priority. We have been working closely with the British Transport Police and Metropolitan Police and there is no known threat to our staff or our customers. We have no plans to close either King’s Cross or Blackhorse Road stations.”

EDL leader Stephen Yaxley-Lennon did not respond to requests for comment. However, the group has repeatedly insisted that it is non-violent but, since it does not have a formal membership structure, cannot control every member of a march.

quote:

A British dad has been arrested on suspicion of inciting racial hatred after praising mass murderer Anders Breivik on Facebook, it emerged today.

Philip Horn, 44, allegedly said on the social networking site that he 'takes his hat off' to the infamous gunman.

The Norwegian slaughtered 77 adults and teenagers when he bombed government buildings in Oslo and carried out a mass shooting on the island of Utoya in July last year.

Twisted: Jailed mass murderer Anders Breivik was praised by father-of-three Philip Horn on Facebook

Horn, a father-of-three, from Gillingham, was arrested by Kent Police on Thursday afternoon and is currently being held in custody.

Horn, who is reported to have links with the English Defence League, is also alleged to have publicly supported Breivik’s crusade to 'protect his country from Muslims'.

The unemployed builder from Gillingham, Kent, is said to have posted a message saying: 'Well done Anders Breivik. I take my hat off to you sir.

'You proved you were not insane and that you are just one of many like myself who wish their country to return to the way it was before it was invaded by the Muslim population. Respect to you.'

He was also filmed by a national newspaper saying: 'If someone came to my door in a uniform and said they were going to bang me up for six months then fine. I’m not going to retract any remarks I made.

'To a certain extent I do defend what he’s [Breivik] done. Go back 40-50 years ago to Norway, would you have seen people walking around in burkas and all that?

'I am a racist to a certain extent. Of course it’s wrong to kill children, but if he had to do it that way to get his point across, so be it.'

A Kent Police spokesman said: 'During the afternoon of Thursday, August 30 a 45-year-old man from Gillingham was arrested on suspicion of inciting racial hatred.

'He is currently in police custody.'

EndofGoogle posted:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2196433/

More bigots making asses of themselves and getting arrested

Lamuella posted:

According to various antifa groups, there was a huge reaction in Waltham forest of people telling the EDL to gently caress off:

http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/DEATH-KNELL-FOR-THE-EDL/

http://socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=29463

oh, and lying sack of twats Nick Griffin suggested that muslamics were burning cars in Walthamstow:

https://twitter.com/nickgriffinmep/status/241998914172116992

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:

Tee hee hee

Baracula posted:

Tsk tsk. A gendered slur?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/01/far-right-support-anders-breivik posted:

A number of rightwing British activists have publicly praised mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik – one describing him as a "role model" – since the Norwegian extremist was sentenced.

Members of the English Defence League (EDL) and the National Front have voiced support for the 33-year-old, who was declared sane and convicted by an Oslo court nine days ago after killing 77 people in two attacks last year.

Kickboxer Darren Clifft from Walsall tried to garner support for a petition to free Breivik last week. The 23-year-old National Front supporter, who posts as "Daz MarxistHunter", left a message on Facebook stating: "[Breivik] is truly inspirational. He sacrificed his life so Europe might be free again from the clutches of Islam and cultural Marxism, multiculturalism and political correctness. I see him as my role model, what every European man needs to be in order for Europe to survive."

Another Breivik admirer, Nick Greger – who, along with EDL founder member Paul Ray, runs Order 777, which claims to bring together Christian resistance movements – wrote on Facebook that the Norwegian deserved a medal "for the groundbreaking performance to blow up his Marxist traitor government building".

Breivik detonated a bomb in Oslo on 22 July last year, targeting government headquarters before embarking on a killing spree on the island of Utøya, where young political activists had gathered for a summer camp.

Greger, a German former neo-Nazi, lives in Malta as does Ray, who reportedly fled the UK fearing arrest for inciting racial hatred.

Several EDL members also appear to offer support for Breivik, including Joel Yossi, a member of the EDL's Jewish division, who revealed that he had been writing to Breivik, who will be detained in Ila prison just outside Oslo for at least 21 years. Yossi wrote: "I have wrote letters to him in prison and he seems he is in high spirits."

The EDL leader, Stephen Lennon, has said that although Breivik's killings were "obviously wrong", the court has helped to legitimise his motives. Lennon states: "By saying that he was sane, it gives a certain credibility to what he had been saying. And that is that Islam is a threat to Europe and to the rest of the world." The EDL, with whom Breivik said he had links, says it is non-violent and opposed only to Islamic extremism.

Hope Not Hate, an anti-extremist group, said the sentiments of a small number of extremists helped to underline concern that the UK was "not immune" to a Breivik-style attack. The group's director, Nick Lowles, said the global network of counter-jihadist extremists meant the ideas that inspired Breivik were still being traded. "Sadly, there are many others at large who share his warped ideology. Seventeen people in the UK with far-right views have been imprisoned in recent years for terrorist-related offences," he said.

A report earlier this year found that 38% of BNP supporters considered armed conflict to be "always or sometimes justifiable". More than 48% believed it was either always or sometimes justifiable to "prepare yourself for conflict between groups" in order to defend the "national way of life".

Hope Not Hate has now set up a monitoring unit to track counter-jihadist activists that they hope will work as an "early warning system" to help identify potentially dangerous extremists. Lowles said it was vital that the government, police and security services began to devote the same level of resources as to other extremist threats.

quote:

By saying that he was sane, it gives a certain credibility to what he had been saying

British Tim posted:

Meet Daz Christopher aka Darren Clifft who believes killing is not murder.