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Short hop being a button combo makes sense in this game though, since it fundamentally works differently than jumping does. RumbleFish had a pretty similar setup except they actually had a dedicated fifth button for it (5E was roll, 2E was short hop).
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Sep 1, 2012 14:42
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Short hop being a button combo makes sense in this game though, since it fundamentally works differently than jumping does. RumbleFish had a pretty similar setup except they actually had a dedicated fifth button for it (5E was roll, 2E was short hop). http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/images/1/13/P4Arena_SystemMap.png Although I might just be used to other games so their dumb poo poo feels natural. Actually GG did have some weird stuff by the time they got to AC, Persona doesn't have multiple block types yet.
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Sep 1, 2012 15:53
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Persona really feels like it needs 2 more normals per character, and there's no more room for that without an extra button. There's so many button combinations it'd just feel more comfortable anyway.
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Sep 1, 2012 16:02
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There's plenty of room for more normals, only a few characters even have something like a 6B or 4B or 3B. And really, some characters don't even have a 2D (Labs, Aki). But yeah I really hope they switch to a 5 button layout in any case.
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Sep 1, 2012 16:14
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:There's plenty of room for more normals, only a few characters even have something like a 6B or 4B or 3B. And really, some characters don't even have a 2D (Labs, Aki). It feels like the intent was to avoid command normals though. It's weird because I think the space they designed the game in was very restrictive, but is the best layout without extra stuff. The shift is going to feel a bit unnatural with the extra stuff IMO. I'd rather have the extra button than all of the buttons feel like they make perfect sense though.
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Sep 1, 2012 16:17
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Yeah kind of. But then you have characters like Yukiko who have... 4B/5B/6B, 1B/2B/3B, j.4B/j.5B/j.6B, 4D/5D/6D, 1D/2D/3D, j.4D/j.5D/j.6D I guess that's kind of different though since that's just variations on the same move. So I dunno. I do think characters need a few more normals though. But at least they could give Labs/Aki a 2D if nothing else. Edit: Oh yeah, there are a bunch of characters with command normals in the air, like Aigis has j.2B.
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Sep 1, 2012 16:20
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It's weird, because I think Akihiko is the only character where I think adding things would subtract from his design. He's like so weirdly simple and complex. I love it. If they gave him extra buttons, I'd love for them to be gimmicks like his 5D. Something that's mildly useful and powerful at the same time.
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Sep 1, 2012 16:21
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How are the PS3 player lobbies? I ask because on the Xbox it seems I only get a handful and I can't join most of them because the connection is 0(I have really good internet, at least I should). edit: I guess it doesn't help I play mostly in the morning on weekdays(Japanese players and what not) and try my best to play on weekends. Still, it feels kinda weak. Latte Lottie fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 16:56
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So, I got my first online stalker today. I was playing against some guy named Great_Sensei who used Yukiko. He beat me first match, then I beat him in the second and left the lobby to go play against other people. (I don't like fighting Yukiko) I must have insulted his INTERNET HONOR by not fighting him a 3rd time, so he sends me messages about how I suck and I only won because I used throw spam (He was using Evasive Action all over the place, what else was I supposed to do?) and constantly sending me match invites telling me to "BE A MAN". Guess that means I'm getting better at this game...
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Sep 1, 2012 21:34
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Latte Lottie posted:How are the PS3 player lobbies? I ask because on the Xbox it seems I only get a handful and I can't join most of them because the connection is 0(I have really good internet, at least I should). This is one area where the matchmaking interface hurts - everyone searches by FAST CONNECTION which restricts 1 and 2 bars, even though with this netcode everything above 0 is perfectly playable (sometimes then, too). I tend to see only a handful of people searching by ranked at a time, but it must invisibly be filtering by trueskill or something because i can jump on a secondary character and see a whole different batch.
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Sep 1, 2012 22:17
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Batigh posted:This is one area where the matchmaking interface hurts - everyone searches by FAST CONNECTION which restricts 1 and 2 bars, even though with this netcode everything above 0 is perfectly playable (sometimes then, too). I tend to see only a handful of people searching by ranked at a time, but it must invisibly be filtering by trueskill or something because i can jump on a secondary character and see a whole different batch. Speak for yourself. If I'm playing ranked, I only want extremely good connections. This game is only playable to me if the connection is White or Green. Edit: Also, matchmaking is I believed influence by your grade. I never, ever, ever, ever, ever fight F players as an A+. anime was right fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 23:05
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Edit: nope.
Latte Lottie fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Sep 1, 2012 |
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Sep 1, 2012 23:12
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2 and above is playable. 2 being noticeably "underwater" and affecting movement and combos a bit and hindering reaction. 3 is good and I don't know what 4 feels like because I've never seen a 4. If you play a 0 or 1 and feel like that's playable, I don't know what's wrong with you.
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Sep 1, 2012 23:49
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I've had no problem with 0 or 1 matches. They are slow during the intro, but afterwards are fine.
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Sep 1, 2012 23:57
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0-3 bar matches are probably pretty cool if you've never played the game offline I guess?
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Sep 1, 2012 23:59
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0 bar games are like "I sure hope autocombo gets it done cause I ain't doing any other kind of combo this game".
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Sep 2, 2012 00:20
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It's odd with me because I've had 0 bar connection that were more fluid than 3 bar connections.
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Sep 2, 2012 02:51
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Perhaps my perspective is a bit skewed coming from Marvel, but you gotta admit that the netcode here is way better than there.
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Sep 2, 2012 03:10
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zarron posted:It's odd with me because I've had 0 bar connection that were more fluid than 3 bar connections. From what I know about the 0 bar is that it is more that the game can't really figure the connection quality out, so they can be either great or terrible.
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Sep 2, 2012 03:30
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Is there a way to tell what level of connection you have when you use the "Quick Match" option?
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Sep 2, 2012 03:32
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Great Lakes Log posted:Is there a way to tell what level of connection you have when you use the "Quick Match" option? Just wait a few seconds and it shows you. Edit: On the screen where it shows you your opponent and you ready up. Just wait before readying and it shows the connection. Mr. Fun fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 2, 2012 |
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Sep 2, 2012 04:20
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I finally started actually practicing the game and getting some matches in online, which were awful in player and great in ranked (I like fighting dudes who are also just starting out, you know how it is). by now I'm used to feeling like an idiot when I start a new game, though this is probably the worst it's been since BB for me, but it's really compounded by not knowing what character I want to play. I decided on Mitsu months and months ago, right after she was announced pretty much, but I've never played charge characters before. I've never wanted to, so it wasn't really a problem, but learning a new game and a new character plus having to remember to charge at certain times AND pay attention to whether they're crouching/counter hits/anti-airs while storing the required combo just in case makes me feel like I'm juggling a whole lotta balls. it doesn't help that I also like the way Liz plays too. and Yukiko. and Labrys. and Yu.... getting a streak of wins in F ranked matches helped after the pummeling I got in player match, but it's still rough going. I guess I'm just whining - there's really nothing for it except to stick it out and see if I can wrap my head around it or not I suppose. even if my stilted, robotic movement and perpetually dropped combos make me feel breaking my hands so they'll never disgrace an arcade stick again
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Sep 2, 2012 05:16
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Waterbed posted:Edit: Also, matchmaking is I believed influence by your grade. I never, ever, ever, ever, ever fight F players as an A+. I've faced an S rank player as a D- rank before. I think level may also factor into it, as he was a level 2 Naoto or something. vvv Ah, that makes sense. I forgot all about PSR. CharlestonJew fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Sep 2, 2012 |
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Sep 2, 2012 07:03
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CharlestonJew posted:I've faced an S rank player as a D- rank before. I think level may also factor into it, as he was a level 2 Naoto or something. If you use custom match search this can happen, it doesn't usually happen if you use quick match. You'll get 1 grade off on quick match but it won't force an F against SSS. edit: Also if you are playing ranked and switch characters you will fight crappy people. It doesn't take your grade into account, just your PSR for that character. Latte Lottie fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Sep 2, 2012 |
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Sep 2, 2012 07:14
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Ok, I don't know if this discussion petered out but here's the deal. The different activations you use for a move aren't balanced around the difficulty of making the move come out, they're balanced around the time it actually takes for the input. The developers of the game know that at top level play, the players will be able to do the inputs. Activating a 360, quarter circle, or charge move is automatic to a top level player (for whom the game is actually balanced in development). The reason the activations are different is especially evident in games like Persona or Skullgirls where the inputs are particularly user friendly. The developers want the activation times for the 360 and charge moves to be measurably longer than the quarter circle activations for the sake of balance. This means that the situations in which you can use one of these moves effectively changes. Lets take a simple example. It's a Ryu mirror match. Both Ryu are face to face, and both have just used Hadouken at exactly the same time. They both recover at exactly the same time, using the exact same strength of Hadouken. Now, one puts in the input for light Hadouken, and the other uses fierce punch. The fierce punch wins by a fraction of a second. Why? Even if the player using Hadouken buffered the activation, he still has to time it so forward+punch came out simultaneously, whereas the opponent simply mashed on fierce punch. The difference here is a fraction of a frame, literally a fraction of a fraction of a second, but that's all that matters. In clash situations like this, the developer has planned for a simultaneously activated Hadouken to beat a Spinning Pile Driver, and the delay of a charge move to cause innate disadvantage to the charge character in such situations as a fireball war. Look at Dieminion Guile replays and the most impressive factor that the commentators will often note is that it doesn't appear that he's losing fireball wars. That's not because the game is balanced such that a Sonic Boom and a Hadouken come out at the same time, it's because Dieminions has mastered the charge motion to such an extent that it takes an expert player like Daigo or Infiltration to actually prove the qcf character is intended to win the fireball game. The slight balance tweaks implemented by input variation seem arbitrary at lower levels of play, but they do have a real impact on the game as a whole.
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Sep 2, 2012 09:20
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MY ANIME GF posted:Lets take a simple example. It's a Ryu mirror match. Both Ryu are face to face, and both have just used Hadouken at exactly the same time. Let's say they did(they did not most likely Edit: exact frames), they both have a chance to react. After reading your post, it just seems like mud. Nothing seem valid, just a rant. edit: Not to mention you don't mention Persona pretty much at all. Take it to the fighting game thread, they will love it. e2: I think I'm being trolled by an FYAD poster. What can you do. Latte Lottie fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Sep 2, 2012 |
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Sep 2, 2012 09:32
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MY ANIME GF posted:Lets take a simple example. It's a Ryu mirror match. Both Ryu are face to face, and both have just used Hadouken at exactly the same time. They both recover at exactly the same time, using the exact same strength of Hadouken. Now, one puts in the input for light Hadouken, and the other uses fierce punch. The fierce punch wins by a fraction of a second. Why? quote:Even if the player using Hadouken buffered the activation, he still has to time it so forward+punch came out simultaneously quote:In clash situations like this, the developer has planned for a simultaneously activated Hadouken to beat a Spinning Pile Driver quote:and the delay of a charge move to cause innate disadvantage to the charge character in such situations as a fireball war. Well yeah, if you're required to hold a direction for a full second before you can do a move, it's going to limit your options, especially when people can try to break your charge. Charge breaking isn't really a thing in p4a though, is it?
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Sep 2, 2012 09:42
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So I'm stuck at 99% complete in story mode, what's the last little bit I need? I got all three bad endings, so I'm not missing any of those, and I just finished Elizabeth's story. Is there an extra epilogue or something?
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Sep 2, 2012 18:55
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Manoueverable posted:So I'm stuck at 99% complete in story mode, what's the last little bit I need? I got all three bad endings, so I'm not missing any of those, and I just finished Elizabeth's story. Is there an extra epilogue or something? Did you pick every single dialogue choice with Yu?
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Sep 2, 2012 19:05
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MY ANIME GF posted:Ok, I don't know if this discussion petered out but here's the deal. The different activations you use for a move aren't balanced around the difficulty of making the move come out, they're balanced around the time it actually takes for the input. The developers of the game know that at top level play, the players will be able to do the inputs. Activating a 360, quarter circle, or charge move is automatic to a top level player (for whom the game is actually balanced in development). The reason the activations are different is especially evident in games like Persona or Skullgirls where the inputs are particularly user friendly. The developers want the activation times for the 360 and charge moves to be measurably longer than the quarter circle activations for the sake of balance. This means that the situations in which you can use one of these moves effectively changes. First paragraph is right, everything else is utter nonsense.
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Sep 2, 2012 19:57
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Manoueverable posted:So I'm stuck at 99% complete in story mode, what's the last little bit I need? I got all three bad endings, so I'm not missing any of those, and I just finished Elizabeth's story. Is there an extra epilogue or something? If you pick all of the top choices with Narukami you get one extra choice at the end. The second option of that is probably what you are missing.
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Sep 3, 2012 01:57
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So who do you think the malicious entity at the end of the game used as a vessel? Assuming it's someone we already met, I'm guessing that it was the dude who gave Naoto her case and helped Mitsuru set up the Shadow operatives. This guy probably had access to Labrys in some way, plus, if the entity doesn't already have god-like knowledge, it could have used this guy to learn about everything involving P3 and P4, since this guy already seems to know about those events. I wonder if these events succeeding Arena will be a part of Persona 5, or become it's own game. Edit: Something else just occurred to me. Now, I haven't played Eternal Punishment yet, so I don't know how it ends, though that is assuming P2 even takes place in the same universe as P3&P4 anyways, but what ifthe entity was Nyarlathotep? Snix fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Sep 3, 2012 |
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Sep 3, 2012 03:12
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I had an idea that the Eerie Voice had some kind of connection to the lab Labrys was made in, since that would mean they'd have the knowledge to hack into her. I really don't have any other evidence to back this up, though I'd bet on it being someone who's appeared in Persona in the past As for Malevolent Entity, even though I haven't played either of the Persona 2s, I saw a bit of into about Nyarlarhotep and it being him makes sense I'm sure the plot threads of P4A will be wrapped up in some way but I'm not sure if it'll be in Persona 5 or Persona 4 Arena 2. If it is Persona 5 then I just want it to be about Elizabeth, haha. She had a cliffhanger!
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Sep 3, 2012 03:26
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Snix posted:Edit: Something else just occurred to me. Now, I haven't played Eternal Punishment yet, so I don't know how it ends, though that is assuming P2 even takes place in the same universe as P3&P4 anyways, but what ifthe entity was Nyarlathotep? I'm almost positive it is our good friend Nyarly. Transforming into other people to pick at their weak points was sort of his "thing", the yellow eyes was his trademark before it was the Shadows', and he's the only person I can think of that can not only command shadows but also the hearts of evil men (the hijackers). His ability to "disappear" in the TV world (in the P3-crew's stories) is also a hint; he doesn't have to travel physically because this is his domain. In a sense, the TV world is him. It also significantly broadens the suspect pool for his human partner; Nyarly would know what happened in P3/P4 because he's probably the one who orchestrated them in the first place or at the very least would become aware of them via the darkness in men's hearts. The human partner doesn't need to know about the Inaba crew, he just has to know about Labrys. Basically, there's so much overlap between Nyarlathotep's abilities and knowledge and the Malevolent Entity's that it would make no sense for them to be different people. Also, they absolutely take place in the same universe. Even if it weren't for the Who's Who segments in P3, the Kurijo Group split off from the Nanjo group. As in, Kei Nanjo, one of the playable characters of SMT: Persona. Also, it has been developer-confirmed that the blue butterfly sometimes seen flying around is Philemon. As for why Personas work so differently between P1/2 and P3/4, and why the antagonists turned from demons to Shadows... we don't have an answer to that yet.
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Sep 3, 2012 08:01
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Started off with Yosuke, trying to switch to Chie for a higher-tier rushdown character but I'm noticing these things: -Yoyo's j. B is really good. It's like Sol's j. S or Ragna's j. C, it's my favorite normal move in any Aksys game and Chie's jumping B is not as good. -The Kanji matchup actually feels harder playing Chie. No projectiles, smaller normals (aside from 5B which is great) So aside from my friend playing Kanji all the time I guess Chie's a better character. Are there better combos than these to use? I have no idea what to do in the corner for damage. Midscreen knockdown: (5A) 5B 2B SWEEP Midscreen damage: 5B 2B 236A~236A xx 236236A, dash 5C xx 236B~236B, dash 5C xx 236B~236B, 236C (~5k dmg) Corner knockdown: 5B 5C 2B 2C Sweep Corner damage: JBB > 5AA > 5B > 5C > 2B > 2C > 236A > 236B > 5C > 236B > 236B > 214D > 236236D (4,728dmg) OR 5DD > 5B > 5C > 2B > 2C > 236A > 236B > 5C > 236B > 236B > 214D > 236236D (4,681dmg) Help is appreciated from the Chie army. Elephunk fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Sep 3, 2012 |
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Sep 3, 2012 18:20
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Man I play Akihiko and have a horrible time fighting against Yukkio. How should I get in without being zoned to death?
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Sep 3, 2012 18:40
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Thedude12 posted:Man I play Akihiko and have a horrible time fighting against Yukkio. How should I get in without being zoned to death? With care.
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Sep 3, 2012 18:43
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TheArchimage posted:Also, they absolutely take place in the same universe. Even if it weren't for the Who's Who segments in P3, the Kurijo Group split off from the Nanjo group. As in, Kei Nanjo, one of the playable characters of SMT: Persona. Also, it has been developer-confirmed that the blue butterfly sometimes seen flying around is Philemon. As for why Personas work so differently between P1/2 and P3/4, and why the antagonists turned from demons to Shadows... we don't have an answer to that yet. Now, I could be wrong here, but perhaps the reason that you fought demons instead of shadows, aside from the shadow characters, in the first two Persona games is because the demons are actually shadows themselves. Shadows and Personas are the same thing, and the Personas are based off of the Demons. So if: Shadow = Persona Demon = Persona Would that mean that Demon = Shadow? The reason that no one seems to remember the major events in P1 & P2, such as the invasion of Demons and the return of loving Hitler, could perhaps be the work of Philemon altering the universe so that no one remembers these catastrophes. This is all just speculation, though. Snix fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Sep 3, 2012 |
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Sep 3, 2012 19:15
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Thedude12 posted:Man I play Akihiko and have a horrible time fighting against Yukkio. How should I get in without being zoned to death? This is a silly matchup because there's no middle ground. She's either beating you from at least midscreen and you can't do poo poo or you are on top of her and she can't do poo poo. Patience is def the way to go. Don't try to rush in and get a quick hit. Once you are out of her bullshit zone you can go ham with the pressure and there is very little she can do. The goal is to put her in a corner because that's an autowin for Aki.
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Sep 3, 2012 20:34
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Buhbuhj posted:This is a silly matchup because there's no middle ground. She's either beating you from at least midscreen and you can't do poo poo or you are on top of her and she can't do poo poo. Patience is def the way to go. Don't try to rush in and get a quick hit. Once you are out of her bullshit zone you can go ham with the pressure and there is very little she can do. The goal is to put her in a corner because that's an autowin for Aki. Ah okay thanks for the info its gonna help a ton. I really need to be more patient when dealing with her rather then going balls out all the time.
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Sep 3, 2012 21:36
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