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Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
lets have a less boring page this time round

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tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
time to let loose the the losethos

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...
we'll be on the next page by the time it's compiled and booted

salted hash browns
Mar 26, 2007
ykrop
someone please provide a summary of yospos's opinions on typing

ty

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
people that work with computers that can't at least touch type are p shameful

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...
but at the same time, if text input is your limiting factor something something i stole this from rotor oh god i hope he doesnt catch me

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

JawnV6 posted:

oh god i hope he doesnt catch me

just take the stairs

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

salted hash browns posted:

someone please provide a summary of yospos's opinions on typing

ty

please type well

http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirtiest-little-secret.html

quote:

This is another one I've wanted to write forever. Man, I've tried a bunch of times. No ruck. Not Rucky. Once again I'm stuck feeling so strongly about something that I'm tripping over myself trying to get my point across.

So! Only one thing left to try: bust open a bottle of wine and see if that gets the ol' creative juices flowing all over my keyboard. Rather than top-down, which is boring, let's go bottoms-up.

Once upon a time...

...in, uh, let's see... it was about 1982. Yeah. A looooong time ago. This is practically a fairy tale.

Once upon a time in '82, there was this completely hypothetical fictitious made-up dorky 12-year-old kid named Yeev Staigey, who was enduring his sophomore year at Paradise High School in Paradise, California. Yeev had skipped 3rd, 7th and 8th grades and entered high school at age 11, in a heroic and largely successful effort to become socially inept for the rest of his life.

Boy, I could tell you all sorts of stories about little Yeev at that age. He was even lamer and more pathetic than you're probably already imagining.

However, our story today concerns Yeev's need to take a, um, an... elective of some sort. I'm not sure what they called it, but at Yeev's school, you couldn't just take math and science and languages and history and all that boring stuff. No! Yeev was being educated in the United States of America, so he had to take "electives", which were loosely defined as "Classes Taught by the Football Coach because Some Law Said that Football Coaches Had to Teach A Course Other Than Football."

These "electives" (which you could "elect" not to take, in which case they would "elect" not to graduate you) were the kinds of courses that put the "Red" in Red-Blooded American. These were courses like Wood Shop, Metal Shop, Auto Shop, and of course that perennial favorite, Just Chop Your Hand Off For Five Credits Shop.

At the time our story begins, our pathetic hero Yeev is peering through his giant scratched bifocal goggles at the electives list, trying to find one that doesn't involve grease and sparks and teachers screaming for a medic, can anyone here make a tourniquet, help help help oh god my pension, and all that manly American stuff you find in Shop class.

Yeev noticed that one of the electives, surely placed there by mistake, was Typing. Like, on a typewriter. Yeev thought this seemed, in the grand scheme of things, relatively harmless. The worst that could happen was maybe getting your fingers jammed in an electric typewriter just as lightning hit the building, causing you to jerk wildly in such a way that your pants accidentally fall down around your ankles and everyone laughs loudly at the Mervyn's white briefs your mom bought you. That would be mildly embarrassing, yes, but in a few years almost nobody would remember, except when they saw you.

Despite this potential pitfall, Typing definitely sounded more appealing than Tourniquet Shop.

Yeev checked, and sure enough, the school's football coach was actually teaching the class. For real. Seeing as this was going to be the closest Yeev would ever get to a football field during his educational career, Yeev decided to go for it.

Yeev didn't know it at the time, but they say coaches make the best teachers. You know. "Them." "They" say it. It's got some truth to it, actually. Coaches have to get a bunch of complicated information through to people with the attention spans of hungry billy goats. That takes mad skilz, as "they" also say.

Have you ever noticed how on NFL Prime Time, the ex-coach commentators and coached ex-player commentators always have big, beefy hands, and they wave them at you as they talk, riveting your attention on the speaker? It's because your reptilian brain is thinking "that dude is about to hit me." Coaches know how to get your attention. They know how to teach.

So Yeev was pretty fortunate in getting a coach. It wasn't all roses, mind you. He was unfortunate in the sense that he was living in 1982, he had little to no experience with computers, and the school was so backwards that by 2008 they still wouldn't have a fugging website, apparently. And back in 1982 they could only afford budget for half the typerwriters to be electric; the rest were the old, manual, horse-drawn kind of typewriter.

It would have been better if Yeev had been learning to type today. Today they have fast keyboards, and smart programs that can show you your exact progress, and so on.

I feel almost jealous of people who need to learn to type today. Don't you?

But in 1982, little bifocaled Yeev had no software training programs, so he had to learn from a football coach.

And all things considered, this was pretty rucky.

Let me tell you how it went down...

Learning Licks

Have you ever watched a professional concert musician practicing? I'm talking about those those world-class ones, the kinds of musicians that were trained in academies in China and Russia and have all the technique of Japanese robots combined with all the musical soul of, well, Japanese robots.

Well, they practice like this: Fast, Slow, Medium. Fast, Slow, Medium. Over and over.

That's how they practice.

It's kinda like Goldilocks. You remember her, don't you? That little girl in the fairy tale that got eaten by bears? Too hot, too cold, just right. That's how musicians practice.

In classical music, they call difficult hunks of music "passages". In electric guitar music, they call 'em "licks". But it's pretty much the same thing. You want to train your fingers to swipe through those notes like a Cheshire Cat licking its big smile. Llllllick!

Here's how you train your fingers.

You start with a passage. Anything at all. At first it'll just be a single note. Later it'll become a few notes, a phrase, a measure, a couple of measures. Anything you're having trouble with and you want to master.

First you play the lick as fast as possible. You don't care about making mistakes! The goal of this phase is to loosen your fingers up. You want them to know what raw speed feels like. The wind should be rushing through their fingery hair! Yuck!

Next you play it as slow as necessary. In this pass you should use proper technique. That basically means "as proper as you can", because state-of-the-art technique is (a) constantly evolving and (b) always somewhat personal. You pick any discipline, they've got schools of thought around technique. There's no right answer, because our bodies all work a little differently. You just have to pick the technique that you like best and try to do it right.

Eventually you can invent your own technique. Sometimes you're forced to: I'll tell you about that in a little bit. But at first you should learn someone else's tried-and-true technique, and after you've mastered it, then decide if you want to change it. Before you go charging off in your own crazy directions, you need to master your form.

Form is liberating. Believe it. It's what they say, and they say it for sound reasons.

Whatever technique you choose, in the slow pass you don't care about speed AT ALL. You care about accuracy. Perfect practice makes perfect, and all that. You want your fingers to know what it feels like to be correct. Doesn't matter if it takes you 30 seconds per note. Just get it right. If you make a mistake, start over from the beginning, slower.

Finally, you play it "at speed". If you're practicing a musical instrument, you play it at the target tempo. You want your fingers to feel musical. Musicians generally agree that you don't want to make mistakes in this phase, or you're just practicing your mistakes. But realistically, most musicians are probably willing to make a few minor sacrifices here in the third pass, as long as the music shines through beautifully.

Let's call it 5 sacrifices a minute. That's what you're targeting.

Fast, Slow, Medium. Over and over. That's what they do. And it works!

Learning to Type

Yeev's football coach was a very wise man. I don't know if he played a musical instrument, but he sure as heck used classical practice ideas.

Yeev dutifully attended class once a day. First he had to learn the basics of typing. There's not much to it, really. You hold your hands in a certain position on "home row". You keep your wrists off the keyboard. There's a diagram showing which fingers type which keys. You memorize it. You try each key a few times.

Think back to kindergarten, when they had you writing the alphabet. You'd fill a line with "A"s, and then a line with "B"s. Just like that.

Within a day or two, you have the keyboard layout memorized, and given enough time, you can type anything without looking at the keys. Just a day or two, and you're already touch-typing!

After the basics, unsurprisingly, Yeev's class played a lot of Typing Football. This was a game the coach had invented to help making learning how to type fun. It wasn't too hard, since the coach astutely realized that not everyone in the class would have the NFL rule book and playbook memorized. Typing football pretty much involved dividing the class in half and moving the ball down the field by typing better than the other half.

The drills Yeev did in 1982 could be done a lot better today using software. Heck, today they have software that lets you practice typing by shooting zombies. How cool is that?

If there's any secret to learning to type, it's persistence. Yeev's class kept at it. Every day, five days a week for 12 weeks, they typed. They didn't have homework, since it wasn't expected that they'd have typewriters. They just came in, played typing football, and did the fast/slow/medium drills.

Sure, sure, there were nuances. Sometimes they'd practice common letter groupings in their language of choice, which in Yeev's case was English. Groups like "tion", "the" and "ing" had to be practiced until they rolled out with an effortless flick. Sometimes they'd practice stuff with lots of punctuation, or numbers, or odd spacing.

That kind of detail is beyond the scope of our story. It's all handled by typing software these days. You'll see.

So how did it turn out? Well, by the end of the semester, Yeev was typing a healthy 60 words per minute. And he wasn't even the best in the class. It was approximately a 45-day investment of 50 minutes a day.

And it was fun!

Realistically, these days, with better software and better keyboards, learning to type is probably more like a 30-day investment of 30 minutes a day.

Today Yeev types about 120 wpm. He entered college still typing around 60-65 wpm, but he decided to practice up after IM'ing with a fellow student named Kelly who typed 120 wpm, using an old Unix program called "talk". Yeev could feel her impatience as they IM'ed. He mentioned it, and she said: "You should see me on a Dvorak keyboard."

Yowza. Yeev was just socially ept enough by then to bite his tongue really hard, and not type anything at all.

But enough about Yeev. The guy's made-up anyway.

Do you need to learn to type?

Well, uh... yeah. You know you do. That's the thing. Even as you make excuses, you know deep down that you need to learn. Typing is how we interact with the whole world today. It doesn't make sense to handicap yourself.

Perhaps you're one of those people who declares: "I'm not rate-limited! I spend all my time in design and almost none of it entering code!" I hear that all the time.

You're wrong, though. Programmers type all day long, even when they're designing. Especially when they're designing, in fact, because they need to have conversations with remote participants.

Here's the industry's dirty secret:


Programmers who don't touch-type fit a profile.


If you're a touch-typist, you know the profile I'm talking about. It's dirty. People don't talk about dirty secrets in polite company. Illtyperacy is the bastard incest child hiding in the industry's basement. I swear, people get really uncomfortable talking about it. We programmers act all enlightened on Reddit, but we can't face our own biggest socio-cultural dirty secret.

Well, see, here's how it is: I'm gonna air out the laundry, whether you like the smell or not.

What's the profile? The profile is this: non-touch-typists have to make sacrifices in order to sustain their productivity.

It's just simple arithmetic. If you spend more time hammering out code, then in order to keep up, you need to spend less time doing something else.

But when it comes to programming, there are only so many things you can sacrifice! You can cut down on your documentation. You can cut down on commenting your code. You can cut down on email conversations and participation in online discussions, preferring group discussions and hallway conversations.

And... well, that's about it.

So guess what non-touch-typists sacrifice? All of it, man. They sacrifice all of it.

Touch typists can spot an illtyperate programmer from a mile away. They don't even have to be in the same room.

For starters, non-typists are almost invisible. They don't leave a footprint in our online community.

When you talk to them 1-on-1, sure, they seem smart. They usually are smart. But non-typists only ever contribute a sentence or two to any online design discussion, or style-guide thread, or outright flamewar, so their online presence is limited.

Heck, it almost seems like they're standoffish, not interested in helping develop the engineering culture. Too good for everyone else!

That's the first part of the profile. They're distant. And that's where their claim that "most of their time is spent in design" completely falls apart, because design involves communicating with other people, and design involves a persistent record of the decision tree. If you're not typing as part of your design, then you're not doing design right.

Next dead-giveaway: non-typist code is... minimalist. They don't go the extra mile to comment things. If their typing skills are really bad, they may opt to comment the code in a second, optional pass. And the ones who essentially type with their elbows? They even sacrifice formatting, which is truly the most horrible sin a programmer can commit. Well, actually, no, scratch that. It's the second worst. The worst is misspelling an identifier, and then not fixing it because it's too much typing. But shotgun formatting is Right Up There.

You know. Shotgun formatting? Where you shove all your letters into a shotgun, point it at the screen, and BLAM! You've Got Code? I knew a dude who coded like that. It was horrible. It was even more horrifying to watch him, because he stared directly downward at his keyboard while he typed, and he'd type with exactly two fingers, whether he needed them both or not, and about once a minute he'd look up at the screen.

During these brief inspections of his output, one of two things would happen. The first possibility was that he'd reach for his mouse, because he had been typing into the wrong window for the past 60 seconds, often with comical results. If he didn't reach for his mouse, he'd reach for the backspace key, which he would press, on average, the same number of times he had pressed other keys.

That dude just may have been CPU bound rather than I/O-bound, though, so I guess I'll cut him some slack.

B-b-b-but REFACTORING *fap* *fap* *fap*

Yeah, yeah. Refaptoring tools make you feel studly. I hear ya. I've heard it plenty of times. The existence of refactoring tools makes typing practically obsolete! A thing of the past! You just press menu buttons all day and collect a paycheck!

I got it. Really. I hear ya.

Here's the deal: everyone is laughing at you. Or if they're your close friend, they're just pitying you. Because you suck. If you really think refactoring tools are a substitute for typing, it's like you're telling us that it's OK for you to saw your legs off because you have a car. We're not loving buying it.

If you are a programmer, or an IT professional working with computers in any capacity, you need to learn to type! I don't know how to put it any more clearly than that. If you refuse to take the time, then you're... you're... an adjective interjection adjective noun, exclamation.

Yeah, I went ahead and redacted that last sentence a bit. It's better this way. I want us to remain friends. You just go ahead and madlib that sucker.

The Good News

Here's the good news, though. Seriously, there's good news. Like, now that you're finally gonna learn to type, I've got good news for you.

And I know you're gonna learn. You know how I know? I'll tell you: it's because you've read this far!

Seriously. The fact that you can actually read sets you apart.

You'd be absolutely astonishedly flabbergasted at how many programmers don't know how to READ. I'm dead serious. You can learn to speed read even faster than you can learn to type, and yet there are tons of programmers out there who are unable to even skim this blog. They try, but unlike speed readers, these folks don't actually pick up the content.

It's the industry's other dirty little secret.

So! Given that you've read this far, you now realize that it's high time you learned to type. You know you can do it. You even know it's not going to be that hard. You know you're just going to have to give up a couple dozen games of Wii Golf, and suddenly you'll be, like, twice as productive without having had to learn so much as a new data structure.

You know. That's why I know you're going to learn.

So I'll tell you the good news: it's frigging easy! Fast, slow, medium! Get some typing software and just learn. We're not talking about dieting here, or quitting smoking. It doesn't matter how old you are, how set in your ways you are: it's still easy. You just need to put in a few dozen hours.

Hell, if you're having trouble, just email me, and I'll give you a personalized pep talk. I can afford it. I type pretty fast. Plus your email will be really short.

In fact, here's a mini pep talk for ya: I didn't know how to touch-type numbers until I'd been out of college for 3 or 4 years. I finally got fed up with the fact that every time I had to type a number, I had to sit up, look down at the keys, and fumble through with a couple of random fingers.

So I finally spent 15 minutes a day for, like, 2 weeks. That's it. You don't have to type numbers very often, as it happens, so after a week or so, every time I needed to type a number I just slowed down and typed it right. After about 2 weeks, I was typing numbers.

That was 15 years ago! 15! 15! 15! I love being able to type that without looking! It's empowering, being able to type almost as fast as you can think. Why would you want it any other way?

C'mon. It's time to bite the bullet and learn.

Where to start?

Well, if it were me, I'd go online and look for free typing software. I'd search for, oh, an hour or two at most, spread over a week or so. I'd try everything out there. If nothing free seemed to be doing it for me, I'd get Mavis Beacon. It's, like, the brand name for typing software. I have no idea if it's good, but I imagine it's a hell of a lot better than a football coach teaching you on an electric typewriter.

I dunno, man. I just can't... I can't understand why professional programmers out there allow themselves to have a career without teaching themselves to type. It doesn't make any sense. It's like being, I dunno, an actor without knowing how to put your clothes on. It's showing up to the game unprepared. It's coming to a meeting without your slides. Going to class without your homework. Swimming in the Olympics wearing a pair of Eddie Bauer Adventurer Shorts.

Let's face it: it's lazy.

There's just no excuse for it. There are no excuses. I have a friend, John, who can only use one of his hands. He types 70 wpm. He invented his own technique for it. He's not making excuses; he's typing circles around people who are making excuses.

Shame on them!

If you have two hands, then 70 wpm, error-free, is easily within your reach. Or faster. It ain't as hard as you think. It's a LOT more useful and liberating than you think.

And since you're Rucky enough to be learning today, you might as well learn on a Dvorak layout. It's a free speed boost. Might as well give yourself a head start!

That's it. That's my article. Please — learn to type. This should be a non-issue, NOT one of the industry's dirty secrets that nobody talks about. Tell your boss you're going to take the time. Get your employer to pay for the software. Have them send you off to a course, if necessary, so you can't weasel out of it.

Do whatever it takes.

Then let me know how it goes. Believe it or not, I want to hear your success stories. Send me mail. It'll make my day!

Rufus Ping
Dec 27, 2006





I'm a Friend of Rodney Nano
im not reading all that are you taking the piss

Sniep
Mar 28, 2004

All I needed was that fatty blunt...



King of Breakfast

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

didn't read

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug
Programmers who don't touch-type fit a profile.

[…]

What's the profile? The profile is this: non-touch-typists have to make sacrifices in order to sustain their productivity.

It's just simple arithmetic. If you spend more time hammering out code, then in order to keep up, you need to spend less time doing something else.

[…]

So guess what non-touch-typists sacrifice? All of it, man. They sacrifice all of it.

syntaxrigger
Jul 7, 2011

Actually you owe me 6! But who's countin?

Jonny 290 posted:

people that work with computers that can't at least touch type are p shameful

i don't trust anyone who programs that doesn't type at least 50wpm

syntaxrigger
Jul 7, 2011

Actually you owe me 6! But who's countin?

Cocoa Crispies posted:

Programmers who don't touch-type fit a profile.

[…]

What's the profile? The profile is this: non-touch-typists have to make sacrifices in order to sustain their productivity.

It's just simple arithmetic. If you spend more time hammering out code, then in order to keep up, you need to spend less time doing something else.

[…]

So guess what non-touch-typists sacrifice? All of it, man. They sacrifice all of it.

don't forget this gem

[...]
We programmers act all enlightened on Reddit, but we can't face our own biggest socio-cultural dirty secret.
[...]

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...
maybe they spend less time writing giant rants on reddit and just do their jobs??

All Hat
Jul 11, 2008

He that is without int among you, let him first cast a long

salted hash browns posted:

someone please provide a summary of yospos's opinions on typing

ty

the rules posted:

27. post post post post post post post post post

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

JawnV6 posted:

but at the same time, if text input is your limiting factor something something i stole this from rotor oh god i hope he doesnt catch me

JAAAAAAAAWN!!! You gotta lotta 'splainin to do!!!

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
jawnv6:intel::lucy:cookie factory

lolololol

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
is floWenoL still steve yegge?

Blotto Skorzany
Nov 7, 2008

He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

rotor posted:

is floWenoL still steve yegge?

is steve yegge still floWenoL? :2bong:

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde

Mr Dog posted:

didn't read

quote:

And since you're Rucky enough to be learning today, you might as well learn on a Dvorak layout. It's a free speed boost. Might as well give yourself a head start!
you chose ... wisely

Max Facetime
Apr 18, 2009

There is no single development, in either technology or in management technique, that by itself promises even one order-of-magnitude improvement in productivity, in reliability, in simplicity.

I believe the hard part of building software to be the specification, design, and testing of this conceptual construct, not the labor of representing it and testing the fidelity of the representation. We still make syntax errors, to be sure; but they are fuzz compared with the conceptual errors in most systems.

The principal effect of timesharing is to shorten system response time. As this response time goes to zero, at some point it passes the human threshold of noticeability, about 100 milliseconds. Beyond that threshold, no benefits are to be expected.

An order-of-magnitude gain can be made by object-oriented programming only if the unnecessary type-specification underbrush still in our programming language is itself nine-tenths of the work involved in designing a program product. I doubt it.

Moreover, at some point the elaboration of a high-level language creates a tool-mastery burden that increases, not reduces, the intellectual task of the user who rarely uses the esoteric constructs.

The first step toward the management of disease was replacement of demon theories and humours theories by the germ theory. That very step, the beginning of hope, in itself dashed all hopes of magical solutions. It told workers that progress would be made stepwise, at great effort, and that a persistent, unremitting care would have to be paid to a discipline of cleanliness. So it is with software engineering today.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Jonny 290 posted:

jawnv6:intel::lucy:cookie factory

lolololol

jawn finds a bug in his perl, just stuffs chips into his mouth as they roll off the assembly line

Opinion Haver
Apr 9, 2007


sy;dr

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

Optional static typing systems :radcat:

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
jesus loving christ i just read a little bit of that steve yegge thing and i want to scratch his loving face, ugh, goddamn

giving that man a voice is an act of violence by google corporate

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
the man writes essay length platitudes to make them seem insightful

Jonnty
Aug 2, 2007

The enemy has become a flaming star!

salted hash browns posted:

someone please provide a summary of yospos's opinions on typing

ty

you should avoid doing it

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde

rotor posted:

jesus loving christ i just read a little bit of that steve yegge thing and i want to scratch his loving face, ugh, goddamn

giving that man a voice is an act of violence by google corporate
but he wrote that smackdown of amazon which is true in every respect

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
or the tl;dr version

"teams who offer a service should not deliver a product in lieu. for a service you cannot have isolated development and operations, jeff bezos realized this, and stopped bifurcating responsibility between teams."

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
not to say there isn't any truth within yegge rants, but if there is any, it is buried under an unrestrained avalanche of words, charged by his enthusiasm and awe.

like when someone keeps explaining repeatedly, unsure if the last one really explained what they meant. each time it becomes more elaborate, and as a result, clunkier. if only you could add detail to simplicity without losing clarity.

see also, douglas hofstaders weighty, self referential tome, on the joys of being self referential. i don't want to call them smug, but they seem to focus on demonstrating their enthusiasm and knowledge, instead of encouraging it with the reader.

tef fucked around with this message at 11:28 on Sep 6, 2012

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
basically I thought godėl escher bach was a wanky book

the best technical writing I've seen is where you can read chapters relatively stand alone, and the worse is where they manage to do the opposite, and yet still write longer books than the former.

there is a horrible tendency to weight the importance of the idea by the words it contains. if I ever go full tom collins, please kill me as I won't be saying anything useful.

i am so angry at wastefully large explanations of simple ideas, and yet here I am all effort posting at length about why I'm angry.

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
to fullfil what seems to my gimmick of bulk posting, they found the video of my talk, and are transcoding them :yaycloud:

Blotto Skorzany
Nov 7, 2008

He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip
when did we get :yaycloud:

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

not reading any of this words

syntaxrigger
Jul 7, 2011

Actually you owe me 6! But who's countin?

tef posted:

....
i am so angry at wastefully large explanations of simple ideas, and yet here I am all effort posting at length about why I'm angry.

this so hard! tbf i could listen to you and rotor talk about anything programming related for a substantial length of time :swoon:

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

tef posted:

basically I thought godėl escher bach was a wanky book

i concur. i couldnt really read the whole thing because i would finish a chapter and shake the book and scream "why doesn't he just say what he means?!?!" and my wife would tell me to settle down and frankly i dont need that kind of stress in my life.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
im a busy, handsome man with no time for insipid nerd fantasy dialogues, get to the point chucklefucks

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
heres the point:
use java or c#
use mssql + stored procs + statement mapping

dont use mysql or nosql
dont use p languages
dont use javascript

soa ftw

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Tiny Bug Child
Sep 11, 2004

Avoid Symmetry, Allow Complexity, Introduce Terror

tef posted:

godėl escher bach was a wanky book

also it does that thing i completely hate where it teaches you concepts with cutesy metaphors but doesn't bother to say what the concept is called irl, so 5 years later you hear about the axiom of choice or some poo poo and you're like, oh i know about that except i thought it was about sheep and tortoises and classical music

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