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In the 40k context "radical" usually means "fucks around with Chaos powers". If anything, the purest Emperor-fearing monodominants are the ones who would wipe out a planet because it had a few heretics on it. Eisenhorn and Ravenor really are exceptions to the Inquisition, especially since Abnett's whole shtick is taking a character that is supposed to be an rear end in a top hat and making him a nice person.
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Sep 7, 2012 01:19
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I'd say the fluff has moved past BotS a little bit. It's still a solid book with an engaging arc and characters, but it definitely focuses more on the "warrior monk" archetype of space marine that fights largely out of honor, tradition, and ritual. Tactical realism nerds might find issue with it, but they should be ignored anyway so who cares. No, it wasn't a solid book with interesting characters. They lacked the personality of Abnett's other books. Brotherhood of the Snake relies so much on the characters, but when you jump from one place to another (so fast) it just leaves you with a feeling of unfulfilled dedication. And if you're telling us that tactical realism should be ignored, then why the hell are you reading these awesome book series anyway? But to be fair: if you're a newcomer it would be interesting, but compared to Abnett's other works (HH, Eisenhorn and GG) this is so mediocre. The reason I'm rooting for Nemesis, is the elaborate plot: Spear, the detective and Eristede's personal war is just so well intertwined. When all the threads gather in one bloody inevitable outcome it just rocks you face off. And the internal war of glamour within humanity's best ranks goes to show how much of an inferior race we are - even 29.000 years from now. Trast posted:... Same thing for having your own entourage of demons bound to your friend's corpses. Hahaha, best way to break the ice at a dinner party. Death by Cranes fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Sep 7, 2012 |
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Sep 7, 2012 01:20
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Death by Cranes posted:The reason I'm rooting for Nemesis, is the elaborate plot: Spear, the detective and Eristede's personal war is just so well intertwined. When all the threads gather in one bloody inevitable outcome it just rocks you face off. And the internal war of glamour within humanity's best ranks goes to show how much of an inferior race we are - even 29.000 years from now. The premise sounds interesting, I think I'll give it a shot. I did read the Last Chancers and Battle for the Abyss so there is no 40k literature I can't handle 
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Sep 7, 2012 01:23
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Death by Cranes posted:Hahaha, best way to break the ice at a dinner party. "Yeah this is my friend Steve, try to ignore the horns and the general feeling of unease that his presence exudes on the warp."
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Sep 7, 2012 01:38
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Brotherhood of the Snake is a collection of short stories, not a novel.
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Sep 7, 2012 02:05
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I've actually never read Space Marine or the Inquisition War books, but if anyone wants to do a write-up I'll gladly add it to the OP. I hear they're...strange. Space Marine follows three initiates from the same hiveworld, from very different walks of life, as they become full fledged Space Marines in the...whatever legion. Also it's homoerotic as hell.
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Sep 7, 2012 02:14
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Therion posted:Inquisitor Kryptmann did and it turned out to be a loving terrible idea. Just an awkward first date. After a few more systems are destroyed, I'm sure they'll get the hang of it. Gork and/or Mork will be sending hearts and flowers to the Hive after another millenium or so. Degenerate Star fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Sep 7, 2012 |
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Sep 7, 2012 02:41
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Therion posted:In the 40k context "radical" usually means "fucks around with Chaos powers". If anything, the purest Emperor-fearing monodominants are the ones who would wipe out a planet because it had a few heretics on it. They never really make it clear where "radical" becomes "rogue". Rogues are actively hunted by the Inquisition and brought in, usually so the radicals can learn everything the rogues did then execute them or put them in a cell. There seem to be radical cabals operating together and not being questioned by other Inquisitors until a demon wrecks havoc on a planet or chaos cults turn up. Where they draw the line is arbitrary depending on the author.
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Sep 7, 2012 05:18
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Therion posted:Inquisitor Kryptmann did and it turned out to be a loving terrible idea.  I was not aware of this storyline, but now that I am, I heartily approve of it. On a side note, who the hell thought black text on a dark gray background was a good idea for the Lexicanum?
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Sep 7, 2012 13:55
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berzerkmonkey posted:
You're right, should be chaos black text on a fortress gray background.
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Sep 7, 2012 18:20
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berzerkmonkey posted:
Probably someone or a group of people who didn't calibrate their monitor properly. Those mid-greys have a lot of variance depending on monitor performance, gamma, etc. I demand Lexicanum be THX certified.
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Sep 7, 2012 21:20
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drkhrs2020 posted:They never really make it clear where "radical" becomes "rogue". Rogues are actively hunted by the Inquisition and brought in, usually so the radicals can learn everything the rogues did then execute them or put them in a cell. There seem to be radical cabals operating together and not being questioned by other Inquisitors until a demon wrecks havoc on a planet or chaos cults turn up. Where they draw the line is arbitrary depending on the author. The Inquisitor game books have a pretty good description and is pretty interesting reading. Radicalism is an ideology of which a number of varying beliefs are grouped under. The general gist seems to be the willingness to use all available means, from using Xenos weaponry to consulting with demons to achieve a goal. Rogue seems to be an official inquisitor status that is applied to you based on a number of criteria from being set up by a rival inquisitor to someone finding out that you've become best friends with a daemonhost.
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Sep 8, 2012 02:01
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Kegslayer posted:The Inquisitor game books have a pretty good description and is pretty interesting reading. I think you are thinking of the special situation status Ravenor used when you mean rogue.
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Sep 8, 2012 03:14
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MariusLecter posted:You're right, should be chaos black text on a fortress gray background. Nothng's more grimdark than eye strain.
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Sep 8, 2012 05:55
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The only WH40k book I've read before is First Heretic, which I picked up at random and turned out to be the worst choice for a noob, since there was a lot of implied "You know why this is significant" when I didn't. It was kind of hilarious though, because there was so much ominous portent dripping from every word about guys in space shooting monsters. I also tried some Ciaphas Cain, but it didn't really work for me, since the funniest thing you can do with this setting is take it seriously. Anyway point is I picked up Xenos on the thread's recommendation, and drat if this isn't way better than anything that uses the phrase "power sword" has the right to be. I've always wondered how you can make much of a coherent story out of something that's based on huge numbers of terrifying things exploding, so I was pleasantly surprised that everybody is so recognizably human, even while doing crazy space poo poo. The fighting through halls full of dying defrosted people was wonderfully creepy.
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Sep 8, 2012 06:42
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Sorry to go slightly off topic butis there a thread somewhere on SA.discussing the WH40k universe? Just finished the emperors gift and damnit ADB may heve just taken first place on my list of best BL authors. That man can tell a story holy poo poo.
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Sep 8, 2012 14:12
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Mikojan posted:Sorry to go slightly off topic butis there a thread somewhere on SA.discussing the WH40k universe? Background occasionally comes up in the general 40k thread in Traditional Games, but rarely. Generally here would probably be the best place to discuss background.
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Sep 8, 2012 14:22
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Trast posted:After reading Eisenhorn and Ravenor plus seeing how decently the THQ games portray Inquisitors I've looked at the real radicals as the same sort of person as say a military general who would use chemical weapons to win a war. Sure it might do the trick but that doesn't make it the right decision. Same thing for having your own entourage of demons bound to your friend's corpses. Not exactly - when the Imperium wages war, any atrocity is justified because your opponents aren't really people (even the ones who look like people - they're filthy heretics who must be purged in cleansing fire). The problem with radicals is that (a) they tend to go against the xenophobic theocracy of the Imperium, which is seldom a great career move, (b) if they make a bad call, the damage to their own side (i.e., major resource centres and important people like governors, and senior officials, not the filthy, ever-replaceable common rabble of the Imperium, whose highest duty is to die for the Emperor) could be catastrophic, and (c) the forces they work with tend to be very good at persuading you to make bad calls. Puritans are just as evil, and can kill just as many innocent people, it's just that they tend to be evil in a way that preserves the status quo. And the Imperium (or at least those members that matter) likes the status quo. Let me put it this way - the Inquisition contains the Istvaanian faction, who saw the Horus Heresy as a useful, productive kick in the pants for the Imperium, and thus seek to create similar crises in order to strengthen mankind through adversity - say, by letting a hive fleet leak through the borders, or 'accidentally' virus-bombing an agri-world. These are not the craziest, most dangerous, or most pants-on-head retarded people in the organisation by a long, long way.
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Sep 8, 2012 15:25
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rocket_Magnet posted:Just finished Fear to Tread and it's an odd one, the storyline itself should have had me scrambling to finish it but James Swallow's writing always leaves me Fear to Tread reads like the wiki entry for a cool book. As it is, the plot twists aren't just telegraphed, but explained in detail ahead of time, and every character says their motivations out loud to anyone within earshot. It could've been an amazing story if someone who knew how to write had worked on it.
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Sep 8, 2012 15:36
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. It does however have some amazing parts such as
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Mikojan posted:Sorry to go slightly off topic butis there a thread somewhere on SA.discussing the WH40k universe? Read his Night Lords trilogy yet? If not, grab it now.
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Sep 8, 2012 16:58
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Darth Walrus posted:Not exactly - when the Imperium wages war, any atrocity is justified because your opponents aren't really people (even the ones who look like people - they're filthy heretics who must be purged in cleansing fire). The problem with radicals is that (a) they tend to go against the xenophobic theocracy of the Imperium, which is seldom a great career move, (b) if they make a bad call, the damage to their own side (i.e., major resource centres and important people like governors, and senior officials, not the filthy, ever-replaceable common rabble of the Imperium, whose highest duty is to die for the Emperor) could be catastrophic, and (c) the forces they work with tend to be very good at persuading you to make bad calls.  Well, okay then. Never tick off an Inquisitor.
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Sep 8, 2012 18:32
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If Slaanesh is the chaos god of pleasure, why isn't it the strongest of the chaos gods? It's obvious followers of Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch take pleasure in what they do. If Slaaneshi followers crave all forms of sensation, wouldn't that encapsulate Khorne's love of bloodshed, Tzeentch's arcane knowledge, and Nurgle's glee in afflicting sickness?
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Sep 8, 2012 20:12
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Edged Hymn posted:If Slaanesh is the chaos god of pleasure, why isn't it the strongest of the chaos gods? It's obvious followers of Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch take pleasure in what they do. If Slaaneshi followers crave all forms of sensation, wouldn't that encapsulate Khorne's love of bloodshed, Tzeentch's arcane knowledge, and Nurgle's glee in afflicting sickness? Because the grim darkness of the far future just isn't a fun place. Unless you're an Ork. Plus, it's only the Warp-beings who enjoy spreading hope, despair, rage, lust, and so on, because it's what they feed off. For their worshippers, pleasure is very much secondary to their patron emotions, otherwise they'd just be worshipping Slaanesh instead. The followers of Khorne, god of rage and hatred, doesn't kill so much because they enjoy it as because they're firmly of the opinion that everything else needs to loving die right now. The disciples of Tzeentch, god of hope and ambition, are too wrapped up in visualising the next big thing to properly appreciate the here-and-now. As for the followers of Nurgle, god of nihlistic despair... well, that one's pretty self-explanatory. You know the phrase 'you had to laugh, or you'd never stop crying'? That's Nurgleites in a nutshell.
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Sep 8, 2012 21:03
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Darth Walrus posted:Because the grim darkness of the far future just isn't a fun place. Wow, that was pretty insightful. In a Wh40k lore thread, no less. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Sep 8, 2012 22:27
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Trast posted:
The RPGs introduced the Libricar, who are so Puritan they've gone off the deep end into Radicalism. See, there's one faction of the Inquisition called the Amalathians, who try to preserve the status quo as much as they can, but even they can see the need for a change once in a while- it's just that said change has to be nice and slow, and generally take no less than, say, 10 generations at least, just to see how it goes. libricar take this one step further, saying that any change is a Bad Thing because it presumes you know the Emperor's Will better than He did. Also, the sad thing is that considering the sort of people who live through the crap 40K throws at them, the Istvaanians actually have a point. If you want crazy, look at the Horusians- they're like the Thorians (dudes who think Sebastian Thor was the Emperor reborn, and seek to create more such vessels), but they want to recreate loving Horus, that they may tame the forces of Chaos. And another outright heretical faction are the Phaenonites, who are as close to outright atheists as you can get in the 40Kverse.
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Sep 9, 2012 08:31
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I like to think some Orders of Inquisitors leave Life Eater bombs on random worlds in case of Chaos invasion. If a High Value Target appears on that planet they immediately cause exterminatus in hopes of killing an Abbadon or what have you. Course I like Abbot's Inquisitors. Willing to do what ever it takes to take out their main threat. Even if it means falling to radical ways. Can't wait for Pariah to come out to see what happens between our favorite inquisitors.
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Sep 9, 2012 08:37
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CommissarMega posted:The RPGs introduced the Libricar, who are so Puritan they've gone off the deep end into Radicalism. Yeah, the Amalathians are generally considered the closest thing to good guys in the Inquisition, and along with the Thorians (whose reincarnate-the-Emperor plan is so specific and crazy-unworkable that it doesn't really affect their duties), they're the BL authors' go-to for heroic Inquisitors (see also, Amberly Vail). Even so, this being 40K, they can still be pretty nasty - it's worth remembering that the Imperium as it is now is a corrupt, unimaginably brutal theocratic dictatorship, and they want to keep it that way. They can get a bit 'gently caress you, got mine', if you see what I'm saying. And yeah, Chris, they almost certainly do, though a souped-up frigate packing cyclonic torpedoes can generally do the job just as well.
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Sep 9, 2012 09:36
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CommissarMega posted:And another outright heretical faction are the Phaenonites, who are as close to outright atheists as you can get in the 40Kverse.
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Sep 9, 2012 19:13
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Trast posted:I think you are thinking of the special situation status Ravenor used when you mean rogue. Ah not quite, from memory, I think only conclave can declare you've gone rogue and that could be anything from not answering a conclave summons to actively working against the Imperium. Darth Walrus posted:Because the grim darkness of the far future just isn't a fun place. To add a bit more, all the Chaos gods are suppose to draw their power from the same source so where one god rises, the others will naturally wane. In terms of their mortal followers, we've been shown that some still have a full set of emotions and are capable of hiding their beliefs and actions from others but it's also easy to lose complete control and surrender to the emotions that your god represents. Even Khorne worshipers kill for a multitude of reasons from wanting to test their martial power to being driven by the need to slaughter all. In Voidstalker we find out that two of Talos' men have succumbed to Khorne but to different degrees. Uzas blacks out and has his blood for the blood god moments but it's Cyrion, who having also succumbed, waits for Uzas to black out before giving into Khorne and then blaming the killings on Uzas afterwards.
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Sep 10, 2012 01:51
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Kegslayer posted:In Voidstalker we find out that two of Talos' men have succumbed to Khorne but to different degrees. Uzas blacks out and has his blood for the blood god moments but it's Cyrion, who having also succumbed, waits for Uzas to black out before giving into Khorne and then blaming the killings on Uzas afterwards. Cyrion got his ability to taste and enjoy fear from Slaanesh  . I think it gets told in the first book when Talos gets an audience with the gods.
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Sep 10, 2012 01:58
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Kegslayer posted:Ah not quite, from memory, I think only conclave can declare you've gone rogue and that could be anything from not answering a conclave summons to actively working against the Imperium. Also, those rules vary based on what section of the Inquisition you're talking about - region, era, etc. Most of the time, they're sort of making stuff up as they go along, and most rules are more traditions than they are actual hard rules, and are only as strong as their hold on people or the ability of people to enforce them. It seems that the greatest damper on the actions of individual Inquisitors is the disapproval of other inquisitors, and the various covert, overt, or official attempts at assassination that come along with that displeasure.
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Sep 10, 2012 01:59
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Kegslayer posted:Ah not quite, from memory, I think only conclave can declare you've gone rogue and that could be anything from not answering a conclave summons to actively working against the Imperium. Cyrion is a psychic vampire who tastes fear, not a worshipper of Khorne.
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Sep 10, 2012 06:22
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Therion posted:I think it gets told in the first book when Talos [spoiler]gets an audience with the gods. Did anyone else read that sequence and think 'The Last Temptation of Talos?'
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Sep 10, 2012 07:36
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Voidstalker ending spoilers Ah I got confused, I was thinking Chaos but typed in Khorne as that was what the poster above was talking about. Maybe I read too much into the scene but I always thought that both Cyrion and Uzas were both Chaos worshipers whether knowingly or unknowingly. Uzas openly and actively calls on Khorne to use him as a tool in battle in the same way that say the Night Lords/Iron Warriors etc do. Cyrion unknowingly serves Slaneesh and the other Chaos gods every time he indulges in his fear/murder episodes, something which he can't control and is definitely ashamed of. He doesn't recognise his own actions as a service or devotion to the gods despite being able to clearly see it in others. Uzas mentions how he's only killed dozens in his rampages but he's been blamed for the hundreds that Cyrion has killed. They're both cursed with similar needs and desires but Cyrion, who has the greater weakness/appetite, is able to hide it from the others. It seems more poetic for Cyrion to be in denial at being caught more deeply in the same trap as Uzas. In short, as we've seen in most of the good fiction and fluff, Chaos worshipers aren't just one dimensional characters who only possess the stereotypical traits of their patron god. There is a wide spectrum of emotions and characteristics.
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Sep 10, 2012 12:02
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Would love to read a story about a Khorne follower who is cold and calculating. That his subtle actions cause world wide conflict and greater fighting than a single person could do on their on. ...*Cough* I mean blood for blood god! Skulls for Skull Throne! Souls for the soul eater!!!
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Sep 10, 2012 12:15
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EyeRChris posted:Would love to read a story about a Khorne follower who is cold and calculating. That his subtle actions cause world wide conflict and greater fighting than a single person could do on their on. Well, when you're the god of rage and hatred, that logically includes cold, calculating hatred as well. Just like Slaanesh is OK with any form of pleasure-seeking, whether it be sleeping with a dozen daemonettes at once, or arranging your Warp-forged hellchair so that the continent-sized speakers of your private daemonworld give you the absolute best hi-fi experience. In fact, there are canon Khornate strategists and tacticians. They're called the Blood Pact.
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Sep 10, 2012 12:21
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Darth Walrus posted:Well, when you're the god of rage and hatred, that logically includes cold, calculating hatred as well. Just like Slaanesh is OK with any form of pleasure-seeking, whether it be sleeping with a dozen daemonettes at once, or arranging your Warp-forged hellchair so that the continent-sized speakers of your private daemonworld give you the absolute best hi-fi experience. There's a number of guys from Zhufor, the warlord and mastermind from the Siege of Vraks (Forge World) books to all the engineers that build and design that Khorne siege engines. There was also the Iron Warriors Captain in one of the earlier Black Library books who was a Khorne worshiper that was great at tactics and strategy but would still lose control in battle and was slowly descending into madness and insanity. No novels yet but I suspect ADB's Betrayer is going to have some good stuff.
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Sep 10, 2012 13:17
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I don't know if anyone keeps an eye on upcoming BL releases, but it looks like, as of April 2013, they're raising the price of a standard paperback to $11.99. Look at the last few titles on the page: http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/coming-soon/?page=2
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Sep 10, 2012 18:35
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berzerkmonkey posted:I don't know if anyone keeps an eye on upcoming BL releases, but it looks like, as of April 2013, they're raising the price of a standard paperback to $11.99. Amazon is generally about £2-3 cheaper for BL books in the UK, it might be the same US.
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Sep 10, 2012 23:50
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So I was reading one of James Swallows' Blood Angels books, and one of the plot points was that the Flesh Tearers and BA are running low on Marines, though for different reasons. According to the various wikis, the Progenoid glands are mature at 5 or 10 years, depending on which one. However, they only harvest them when the Marine dies. Is there a reason they can't take them out every decade and put in new ones? It takes awhile to make new Marines, sure, but if there's enough gene-seed and enough hardcore humans out there to put them in, shouldn't they be able to keep up a steady supply? Or is that just another angst-producing plot device? "These noble Marines, who are raged-out and possibly cannibal killers most of the time, are tragically doomed! Because they totally are." "These other ones just killed each other in a civil war, so they just want to borrow some Space Marines from their relatives, and maybe also some cash." Also, Swallow is terrible. "Rafn"? Really?
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Sep 11, 2012 01:58
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