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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Mother 3 was way too pretentious for my taste. I found Earthbound to be a great RPG, though, but I have more tolerance for old-school mechanics (it's meant to be a throwback to Dragon Quest). I know it's supposed to be a throwback to DQ, and I love DQ, but I find Earthbound to be a pretty bad DQ clone. While Mother 3 has pretension, certainly, I don't mind it because usually there's a good emotional payoff.
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Sep 8, 2012 20:26
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Mother 3 was way too pretentious for my taste.
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Sep 8, 2012 20:28
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The White Dragon posted:I followed the Shigesato Itoi rule with Mother 3. I dunno about pretentious, but it's absolutely manipulative and geared toward the player naming the characters after people they care about. Because of this, it was a really personal experience for me, so maybe I'm overlooking a lot of stuff that I'd normally be stony-faced about. I feel the same way and got the same experience. I never got any of this with Earthbound. The appeal of Earthbound seems to be steeped in its absurdist setting that guns to be whacky for the sake of being whacky instead of actually saying anything memorable or important. Earthbound is rpg junk food. And that battle system? Ugh.
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Sep 8, 2012 20:31
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The White Dragon posted:It was that one specific line about Akkadian that really fuckin' soured me to the script. While it was only halfway out of left field, I used to see "lemme pass you some relevant etymology so I sound smarter than I actually am (REGIS MEANS KING IN LATIN Even if someone drops etymology in a game, they're not necessarily doing it because they think they're super-smart geniuses or so clever. A lot of what SMT does (and honestly a lot of the reasons for references in JRPGs in general) are not because they think they're smart. They drop it in for flavor and often to facilitate a joke which is only funny to a very limited number of people. The entire "Bel" thing in the Japanese version is just a goofy Japanese word pun. (And you know Japan loves its inexplicably dumb word puns.) That's almost entirely it. It's just a long drawn-out silly pun that they couldn't even properly translate to English. (Thus resulting in Beldur instead of Baldur.) That plus "flavor" are basically the entire reasons for a lot of the references in Japanese video games. So many many terrible name puns... One thing I really discovered upon replaying games that I thought were being serious when I was younger is that they're not. Even poo poo like Xenogears which is legitimately trying to be pretentious is also made of up 50% obscure giant mecha references and 50% pointless pretension. A good chunk of what they include isn't trying to be deep or meaningful. It's just trying to be 'flavorful.' This, I think, is part of why FF7 is remembered so oddly. It has a lot of potentially pretentious poo poo (I mean the villain is named Sephiroth for Christ's sake) but it isn't taking itself that super-seriously. That doesn't mean it isn't taking itself seriously but it doesn't think it's a genius work of art. It's a game where you sneak into a military base by riding a dolphin. It's just badly translated enough and just foreign enough and just potentially pretentious enough that people obfuscate the fact that it's a wacky as poo poo game. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Sep 8, 2012 |
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Sep 8, 2012 20:36
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)" all the time in lovely RPGMaker games. There's a difference between a historical fiction setup--Assassin's Creed and of course Indiana Jones like you say both drop history, but they twist 'em with a bit of fiction too, or if it is straight history, they at least ham it up--and dropping historical citations like you're a Wikipedia editor or someshit.
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Himuro posted:I feel the same way and got the same experience. You. You are ugh.
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Sep 8, 2012 20:40
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ImpAtom posted:This, I think, is part of why FF7 is remembered so oddly. It has a lot of potentially pretentious poo poo (I mean the villain is named Sephiroth for Christ's sake) but it isn't taking itself that seriously. That doesn't mean it isn't taking itself seriously but it doesn't think it's a genius work of art. It's a game where you sneak into a military base by riding a dolphin. It's just badly translated enough and just foreign enough and just potentially pretentious enough that people obfuscate the fact that it's a wacky as poo poo game. I like this note. Even the developers forget what type of game FF7 is. It's really sad. People treat it like it's some marvel of social criticism when it's a game with a robot in a giant moogle suit with a talking cat on top and dude crossdressing to save his childhood pal.
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Sep 8, 2012 20:46
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The White Dragon posted:I followed the Shigesato Itoi rule with Mother 3. I dunno about pretentious, but it's absolutely manipulative and geared toward the player naming the characters after people they care about. Because of this, it was a really personal experience for me, so maybe I'm overlooking a lot of stuff that I'd normally be stony-faced about. What is the Itoi rule? I had trouble getting into Mother 3 because I just found the battle system off-putting. Man, now I just wish Itoi was making video games again 
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Sep 8, 2012 21:07
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Bovineicide posted:What is the Itoi rule? Shigesato Itoi posted:That's the depth of attaching a name to something. There are some who just name the characters AAAAA, and a long time ago, I felt a little upset toward people like that. I wanted to tell them that it's a big deal to give your characters names of their own. And I absolutely believe it, though it's been said many times by many folks that naming your characters names that you want them to have is pointless, especially when characters have default names in railroad games. But I don't think that the existence of default names changes the fact that you can have a much more personal experience if you do change 'em. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Sep 8, 2012 |
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Sep 8, 2012 21:10
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That's pretentious, to me. You can't tailor a story around names you personally know, and any game where I can't do silly poo poo like make a monk and name him Fister or generate the line "Pokey, you don't like pussy, do you? TOO BAD!!" just isn't as fun to me.
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Sep 8, 2012 22:29
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:That's pretentious, to me. You can't tailor a story around names you personally know, and any game where I can't do silly poo poo like make a monk and name him Fister or generate the line "Pokey, you don't like pussy, do you? TOO BAD!!" just isn't as fun to me.
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Sep 8, 2012 22:45
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I like using meaningful names in Earthbound. I just need to hack the game so I can replace "Pokey" with "Newman."
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Sep 8, 2012 22:49
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I get you. I just don't think it works in a game with a clear story to tell, like Mother 3. Contrasted with Final Fantasy Tactics, where your troops are a blank slate, I love naming those after people I know, gives more incentive to keep them alive and they develop little personalities. (Nick likes her the most, that's why his heal spells are more effective.) I prefer that to trying to game the zodiac system.
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Sep 8, 2012 22:52
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I honestly feel exactly the opposite. I would always feel creepy naming characters in games after people I know. My friends aren't monks and black wizards. Why would I want to pretend they were and 'hang out with them' in the game instead of just hanging out in real life? (This is how I thought as a kid, not a comment on people who do that.) Even now I guess I just don't get it, although I don't feel the same way I did as a kid. Even in games like Etrian Odyssey where I have to create characters, I just give them fictional names or descriptive names. (i.e: Farmer/Tanker/ect.)
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Sep 8, 2012 23:16
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A lot of my friends were rpg nerds too, we got a kick out of seeing which classes we all thought the others applied to. It wasn't about virtual hangouts, but the idea of charging onto the frontlines with those you trust. (And by the end of the game, replacing their sorry asses with Mustadio and TG Cid.)
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Sep 8, 2012 23:26
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:A lot of my friends were rpg nerds too, we got a kick out of seeing which classes we all thought the others applied to. It wasn't about virtual hangouts, but the idea of charging onto the frontlines with those you trust. (And by the end of the game, replacing their sorry asses with Mustadio and TG Cid.) Me and my friends did that too, it's funny thinking back on that. You'd get stuff like "What the hell, you made me Gau? How am I Gau?" or "Agh Mike you missed again you suck". It definitely made the games more fun though.
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Sep 8, 2012 23:31
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I have a weird thing about RPGS where it's turn-based AND first-person. It just puts me off entirely, which is why I couldn't play old DQ games. For some reason I just can't enjoy them, at least I couldn't the last time I tried. Could be different now but back when I tried Earthbound, discovering it had such a system, I just put it down. I know it's weird.
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Sep 8, 2012 23:32
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Rueish posted:I have a weird thing about RPGS where it's turn-based AND first-person. It just puts me off entirely, which is why I couldn't play old DQ games. For some reason I just can't enjoy them, at least I couldn't the last time I tried. Could be different now but back when I tried Earthbound, discovering it had such a system, I just put it down. That was always a kind of barrier for me too.
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Sep 8, 2012 23:45
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That used to be a barrier for me, but you get used to it. In DQ, for example, the first person battles add to the game's battle speed. Battles are over in seconds, not minutes, turns can last 5 seconds, in exchange between 8 individual turns if the text speed is fast enough. More than that, in later games, monsters have really personable and charming animations brought out by the fact that they're first person. It really depends on how it's handled.
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Sep 8, 2012 23:57
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While we're talking character names, I'm running a Golden Girls-themed game of FF2 (DoS version) right now, based solely on the fact that Firion's character portrait looks like Bea Arthur.
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Sep 9, 2012 01:28
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But Rocks Hurt Head posted:While we're talking character names, I'm running a Golden Girls-themed game of FF2 (DoS version) right now, based solely on the fact that Firion's character portrait looks like Bea Arthur. So you're soloing it with Rose?
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Sep 9, 2012 01:43
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I named every FFVI character after a member of the X-Men when I was a kid. Locke will always be Logan to me.
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Sep 9, 2012 01:45
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I loved the poo poo out of Earthbound because it knew what an RPG should be like. These kinds of games throw pages and pages and pages of words at you, they should actually be fun to read. You really shouldn't play it for combat, since it's pretty uninteresting, you should play it to get the experience of four kids having a good time traveling the world. I like Mother 3 too, but I feel it went way too far with the tragedy. Pokey used to just be an rear end in a top hat that lived next door, now he's an evil overlord that has killed countless people. It's like finding out Gary Oak became Hitler. Also, VI's opera was good (Though I loving hated Locke's part with Celes), but I saw it after IX's, which was infinitely better.
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Sep 9, 2012 01:53
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Momomo posted:I like Mother 3 too, but I feel it went way too far with the tragedy. Pokey used to just be an rear end in a top hat that lived next door, now he's an evil overlord that has killed countless people. It's like finding out Gary Oak became Hitler. This should be called "pulling a Chrono Cross." 
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Sep 9, 2012 02:37
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Krad posted:This should be called "pulling a Chrono Cross."  for the good bulk of it.
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Sep 9, 2012 02:45
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Well, then it was a really awesome trainwreck.
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Sep 9, 2012 02:58
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Quite the contrary, really. Game wasn't even moderately fun enough to make up for it, either.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:17
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Well I liked Chrono Cross. 
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Sep 9, 2012 03:22
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Momomo posted:I like Mother 3 too, but I feel it went way too far with the tragedy. Pokey used to just be an rear end in a top hat that lived next door, now he's an evil overlord that has killed countless people. It's like finding out Gary Oak became Hitler. Well, considering Pokey was already pretty evil at the point of the final boss of Earthbound, him being a super terrible dictator or whatever in Mother 3 made sense.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:22
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Himuro posted:I have no loving clue what is going in this thread anymore or even what game you guys are talking about. I'm assuming it's Earthbound, and that game sucks, but I don't know anymore. Devil Survivor, I think. It's an SMT game (and I still need to play the sequel). edit wow i should really refresh the page sometime
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Sep 9, 2012 04:29
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Cardboard Fox posted:Well I liked Chrono Cross. I like Chrono Cross, but when I played I couldn't help but think of the squandered potential. So many of the game's problems could have been avoided if they hadn't stuck to the "big cast" gimmick. Still, one of the best soundtracks ever.
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Sep 9, 2012 04:34
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voltron lion force posted:I like Chrono Cross, but when I played I couldn't help but think of the squandered potential. So many of the game's problems could have been avoided if they hadn't stuck to the "big cast" gimmick. Still, one of the best soundtracks ever. I think the "big cast" gimmick could've worked if, like how everyone hanged out in the End of Time in CT, you had sort of a central "hub" where all your bros would chill in after you recruited them. As it stands, your allies exist nebulously at best. A couple of them go home when they aren't in your party, but as I recall most of them just completely disappear until you call 'em up on your time and space phone.
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Sep 9, 2012 04:56
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If they had a smaller playable cast they could have focused on making duel/triple techs worth a drat and the main tedium of the elements system (switching them among party members) would have been lessened. The party members could have actually interacted with the story instead of just going in your pokedex only popping out to say some generic line with an accent filtered on. Ah what could have been 
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Sep 9, 2012 05:50
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I've never played Cross but does anyone know how development went so wrong on the game? I don't think I've ever heard someone complement the game without massive caveats.
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Sep 9, 2012 06:17
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Cityinthesea posted:Well, considering Pokey was already pretty evil at the point of the final boss of Earthbound, him being a super terrible dictator or whatever in Mother 3 made sense. No it didn't. He was inept. That was the point. And this is a derail for another thread.
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Sep 9, 2012 07:25
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But Rocks Hurt Head posted:I've never played Cross but does anyone know how development went so wrong on the game? I don't think I've ever heard someone complement the game without massive caveats. Wasn't it another victim of FF8 sucking away all the money? No matter what problems it has, it still fared way better than its brother Xenogears.
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Sep 9, 2012 07:40
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Momomo posted:Wasn't it another victim of FF8 sucking away all the money? No matter what problems it has, it still fared way better than its brother Xenogears. e: oh motherfucker Fur20 fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 07:49
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That part at the end where they pretty much explain the entire plot to you seemed really phoned in. If not lack of funds, then I guess a lack of time, since that was just ridiculous.
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Sep 9, 2012 07:59
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Well they basically say "gently caress the world" in many, many more words  To me, it just smells of bad planning: there are a bunch of places where they could've legitimately fit exposition for that whole spiel at the end, but instead of doing forward story, they insisted on spending the entire game feeding you backstory. Then once they were all finished, clapping each other on the back and spillin' drinks, someone was idly flipping through the script and noticed, "oh, poo poo, guys. The pages are printed double-sided on this script and we only put in like half the story, how are we gonna deal with this?" And his supervisor was like, "Oh, dude, no worries. Here, check this out, I learned this trick from Xenogears."
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Sep 9, 2012 08:09
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Momomo posted:Wasn't it another victim of FF8 sucking away all the money? No matter what problems it has, it still fared way better than its brother Xenogears. If that isn't a testament to awful taste I don't know what is. Xenogears could have been so much more.
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Sep 9, 2012 08:11
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Eh. Xenogears was, at its heart, an homage to mecha anime with an overly complex backstory (that mostly served to reference mecha anime.) It certainly would have been nice to have actual dungeons and poo poo, but I really don't know if a fully-budgeted Xenogears would have been much different than what we got except longer. I like Xenogears but that is because I have a dire weakness for giant robots. As a kid it was the greatest thing ever but going back to it now, I can see how much of it is stapled together from other stuff.
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Sep 9, 2012 08:13
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