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Oh poo poo, I just remembered that I have a blogger. I should... probably post to it.
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Sep 5, 2012 23:24
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Erik Shawn-Bohner posted:My intuition, based on your chosen screen name, says you should just hit the keys and start writing, format later. Thank you sir, this suggestion works very well and has been working out. I guess that I'll see a thread next month.
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Sep 6, 2012 03:17
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Black Griffon posted:I want to set up a blog for my writing, to share with family and Facebook friends and so on. Is there a blog service that's especially good for this, and how should I treat any material that I want to send to a publisher? Blogger is really easy to use and if you already have a Google account you can just use that to log in, so you don't even have to remember an extra password or anything.
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Sep 6, 2012 04:34
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FauxCyclops posted:I use blogger/blogspot, and Wordpress offers some good solutions as well. Tiggum posted:Blogger is really easy to use and if you already have a Google account you can just use that to log in, so you don't even have to remember an extra password or anything. Well look at that, I even have an ancient blog on blogger I didn't know about. In the meantime, however, some of my friends convinced me to start a tumblr, which has the option to stop indexing by search engines. Is tumblr a bad idea though? So far it's very simple and to the point. And I might as well resurrect the blogger blog; asking for advice and then just doing something is kind of bitchy. 
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Sep 6, 2012 10:04
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Black Griffon posted:Well look at that, I even have an ancient blog on blogger I didn't know about. Important note. Anything you publish on your blog is considered published in he official sense. You send that short to a lit magazine and they find it online and it goes in the trash. They find out later you hornswaggled them and they'll tell the rest of their editing friends you're no good. So don't put anything on your blog you want to submit and get paid for. And this isn't about hiding it from them it's about first rights to publish. If it's already online you've breached any contract a magazine will have you sign if they accept your work. You get those rights back a few months after a magazine publishes it though and can publish it however you want. HiddenGecko fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Sep 6, 2012 |
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Sep 6, 2012 12:32
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Black Griffon posted:In the meantime, however, some of my friends convinced me to start a tumblr, which has the option to stop indexing by search engines. Is tumblr a bad idea though? So far it's very simple and to the point. Maybe it's just me not knowing how to use it, but I find reading stuff on Tumblr really awkward. Old posts always seem to be inconvenient to access and every post seems to be followed by a bunch of notifications of people who reposted it for some reason. I dunno, maybe I just don't get how it's supposed to work.
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Sep 6, 2012 15:06
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HiddenGecko posted:Important note. Anything you publish on your blog is considered published in he official sense. You send that short to a lit magazine and they find it online and it goes in the trash. They find out later you hornswaggled them and they'll tell the rest of their editing friends you're no good. So don't put anything on your blog you want to submit and get paid for. What about samples? If I post a chapter of something I'm working on, will that count? Since I don't really care about publishing a lot of my shorts, it's the serious pieces I'm worried about. But I don't plan to post anything more than a sample, even if it's a pretty short short. And if I clean it off my blog when I send it to a magazine and the blog is non-indexed, will it still be easy for them to find it? Tiggum posted:Maybe it's just me not knowing how to use it, but I find reading stuff on Tumblr really awkward. Old posts always seem to be inconvenient to access and every post seems to be followed by a bunch of notifications of people who reposted it for some reason. I dunno, maybe I just don't get how it's supposed to work. I find that this depends a lot on layout and style. I try to run a clean, accessible style without junk and with easy-to-access archives. A lot of tumblrs do exactly what you say, and it sucks. Black Griffon fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Sep 6, 2012 |
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Sep 6, 2012 16:11
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Black Griffon posted:What about samples? If I post a chapter of something I'm working on, will that count? Since I don't really care about publishing a lot of my shorts, it's the serious pieces I'm worried about. But I don't plan to post anything more than a sample, even if it's a pretty short short. Samples have always been fine. We live in the age of the internet, if you're not posting samples of your novel on writing forums you're emailing them to friends and beta readers. publishers expect this to happen. No one will come down hard on you for posting samples. Even here, Pipes! is very willing to remove your posts from the searchable index if you contact him. And I'm sure other sites can do similar things. But you don't have to be paranoid about samples, post and edit away.
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Sep 6, 2012 22:52
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I'm working on the opening lines for my novel, and would appreciate a little feedback on what I've come up with. I'm not sure if most people would find these few sentences intriguing or off-putting: --- With an emotional detachment born of professionalism and experience, Malen delicately grasped the genitals of King Perac with his left hand. This wasn't the most exotic request Malen had received from a client, but it was sure to be the most memorable. He slowly turned his gaze towards the head of the royal bed to meet his Majesty's empty stare. "Nothing personal, your Majesty," he murmured, "but my client gave me very specific instructions, and a good businessman always honors his client's wishes." His Majesty, Malen noted, did not respond. The assassin grunted as his right hand wrenched free the dagger he had embedded in the King's chest. With a sigh, he turned back to the task at hand, steadied his crimson dagger, and began his work. --- For some back story that would be explained shortly after this, the Queen had died giving birth only to a daughter, and the King refused to remarry in order to produce an heir. The general populace was somewhat distraught over this, and one particular individual decided to send a very pointed message regarding the King's lack of attention to his duties, i.e. emasculation. I welcome any thoughts on this, as well as criticisms over my tenuous grasp of English composition.
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Sep 6, 2012 22:55
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Subway Ninja posted:I'm working on the opening lines for my novel, and would appreciate a little feedback on what I've come up with. I'm not sure if most people would find these few sentences intriguing or off-putting: Not even worth commenting yet. Finish the book then ask people what they think. A few sentences tell me nothing about your writing style, your paragraph style, the flow, the themes, the actual plot or the working story of the novel. Thus, wait till you're 100% done before even letting anyone but yourself see it. HiddenGecko fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Sep 7, 2012 |
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Sep 7, 2012 00:55
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HiddenGecko posted:Not even worth commenting yet. Finish the book then ask people what they think. A few sentences tell me nothing about your writing style, your paragraph style, the flow, the themes, the actual plot or the working story of the novel. Thus, wait till you're 100% done before even letting anyone but yourself see it. The book is quite nearly finished, I'm in the process of editing and cutting the fat. The point of my post was to see if the initial lines (more specifically the first line about grabbing genitals) was something that would be detestable to the average reader, or perhaps make one think they had accidentally picked up a smutty book disguised as fantasy. I'd be more than happy to supply examples of all the things you mentioned as soon as I'm done editing, but for right now, I'd just like to know if you guys think the average person will read that first line, say 'ew' and put it back down. If commenting on the initial reaction to a few sentences requires knowledge of my writing style, etc., then I don't know what to say. (Or perhaps you mistook my use of 'opening lines' as an indication that I was just now starting to write the book from the beginning). If I'm wrong or out of line then I'll apologize and bow out.
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Sep 7, 2012 01:32
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OH, my bad then. I retract my previous edit then. You can't blame me for assuming the worst though, a lot of people just write three paragraphs and expect others to validate them and don't end up writing anything beyond that first few paragraphs. So SORRY! Edit: Well for what it's worth your first lines are not so much off putting but just laced with a certain sardonic edge. Like if I were reading a Discworld novel but it was being told in a very straight and serious way. It's just kind of funny in a dark humor sort of way. HiddenGecko fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Sep 7, 2012 |
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Sep 7, 2012 01:37
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Haha it's no problem. I probably didn't word my initial question as well as I could have, which perhaps doesn't speak well of my ability as a writer.  I'll definitely be posting more when I've tidied things up a bit. I'm just a tad stuck on the opening lines, since, at least to me, they set the tone of the story, and I find it difficult to really get into the editing until I've nailed them down. Edit: Dark humor is definitely something I'm after with this story, but I have a feeling I"ll need to keep it in check lest I go to far. I haven't read Discworld, so I'm going to have to get a copy and see how it compares (or doesn't). Still plenty of time before I finish this thing up and send it out. Subway Ninja fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Sep 7, 2012 |
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Sep 7, 2012 01:44
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It's just that grabbing the king's junk and then stabbing him in the chest (while fondling? Groping? Petting? said junk) is just outrageous. And if you're going for humor I would definitely read some Discworld by Terry Pratchett. He does fantasy humor well and is also just a brilliant writer overall. Good luck with your editing.
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Sep 7, 2012 01:54
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This helps tremendously, it shows I didn't word it very well. He had already murdered the King (thus having to wrench the dagger free), and was then proceeding to castrate him as a severe form of protest over being heir-less. He wasn't fondling the King, he was gripping and lifting so as to castrate him. As I've already the idea in my head of what's happening, it's easy to gloss over how someone else would interpret what I wrote. Thanks again, This gives me some much needed momentum. Edit: Ah, perhaps changing 'he had embedded' to 'embedded' would be a good start, just now caught that.
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Sep 7, 2012 02:06
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I will say I read it and kind of quirked my head at it. If the goal behind the opening hook is purely to capture interest and pull your reader into asking what's next, I think you have that. If I may ask, is the assassin's job or the twist that he takes his balls so as to artificially produce a heir? Just the way the bit ends I feel like something else is happening with the body
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Sep 7, 2012 03:18
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Canadian Surf Club posted:I will say I read it and kind of quirked my head at it. If the goal behind the opening hook is purely to capture interest and pull your reader into asking what's next, I think you have that. That's good to hear, so I know I'm on the right track, but just need to modify my approach. If I may expand a bit without taking over the thread much further, I had three goals with this opening bit: First of all was indeed to catch attention. Second was to get the story rolling with an important event that sets off a series of political plots and intrigues. Finally, I was trying to introduce a fair amount of exposition on an important character (Malen) without info dumping. What I had hoped to convey about Malen's background was that he was an assassin (obviously), experienced and almost blase about things that would make a normal man (and perhaps a normal assassin) shudder, but very professional and perhaps a bit unhinged mentally, seeing as how he talks to his dead victim. I've got a ways to go, but I appreciate everyone's input. Edit: ^Although interesting, no. The main goal of the person who hired the assassin is to echo the public sentiment about a lack of an heir in a very direct way. Shortly after, certain clues will pop up pointing towards the few nobles who were in a position to assume the throne, and who, not-so-coincidently, were very outspoken against the King for not remarrying. The assassin's client, a prominent, trusted figure who always ostensibly supported the King, will be in a prime position to sweep the throne out from under the nobles amidst the confusion and suspicion surrounding them as potential suspects. Subway Ninja fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Sep 7, 2012 |
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Sep 7, 2012 03:29
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It's interesting, but I would say maybe too many names in the first sentence. Referring to the king as...well, "the king" provides enough info. I would argue that you can refer to "the assassin" as well. Just my thoughts.
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Sep 7, 2012 03:33
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"With an emotional detachment born of professionalism and experience" is to me very heavy-handed. Especially when all of it is implied in the action. If you want to make him as you describe him in that phrase, then strengthen the action so he is so.
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Sep 7, 2012 04:33
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Subway Ninja posted:I'm working on the opening lines for my novel, and would appreciate a little feedback on what I've come up with. I'm not sure if most people would find these few sentences intriguing or off-putting: In terms of line edits, I'd cut the first sentence in half and switch it around; those first nine words were pretty boring. Other than that, I'd watch for repetition. You have "Malen" in two consecutive sentences (sentences #1 and 2) and "Majesty" in three consecutive sentences (3, 4, 5). Other than that, seems good.
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Sep 7, 2012 05:12
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Since you guys are into critique mode, maybe you can give me some help. I want to post two drafts of the opening ~500 words of a short story I have finished, but am currently trying to tighten the screws on. I have been struggling with length a bit (it's still a shade over 7500, slashed down from 11,000!) and initially made this edit for that reason, though it only bought me 50 words or so. In the end since it's not a huge impact on length I am torn as to which version reads better. The first edit has the action starting at a beach where the main character fucks some girl in a beach tent, then spots a brunette. Both come back into the plot later. The second edit has the same action, but from the perspective of a sort of flashback from a car ride that he takes after leaving the beach. A bit of background: the MC (Brett--still not sold on that name) is an international real estate broker and kind of a womanizing shitheap. His goal is to buy a winemaking estate in the French Riviera, but he does not want the current owners/occupants to know that the people he is going to turn it over to will just bulldoze the whole loving place and put up some gaudy hotel and resort for Brits. That's the long and short of it, anyway. EDIT 1 posted:He smoked and made casual converstaion with the blond as she put her bikini back on. From the other side of the pale blue canvas dressing tent he could hear people chatting listlessly. As she was pulling her hair back, he put his trunks on and said goodbye. He went back out onto the beach and into the sea. EDIT 2 posted:The ride out of St.-Cyr-sur-Mer was slow. He smoked and made casual conversation with the driver of the dilapidated Renault. In his mind, he was still revelling in that little blond he had hosed in a dressing tent down by the beach not even an hour before. I am not delicate, throw whatever (constructive) thoughts you might have on either edit at me. I made some other small changes to edit 2 as well, so let me know if you think those work.
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Sep 7, 2012 15:04
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blonde is the feminine noun. quote:He had known of her type before. These are the pretty girls that languish around pretty towns waiting for a bit of adventure or a bit of cock. They are almost adults etc I'm not totally against tense shifts but this is awkward. Brett's other misogynist judgements are in the past tense, why change? Feels almost like the narrator is affirming them or something. If he wanted the brunette standing next to the blonde, why did he pursue the blonde? If I look at your first edit, I know this is becuase it occured after but that sentence doesn't fit right anymore. quote:The driver ground the gears down on the Renault and made a right off the main road and onto a pale and rocky dirt road. Brett spotted a plinth at the corner with an etched marble sign, but it was too overgrown to read. The little one lane driveway was hemmed in by low scruby evergreens and the Renault did not take it well. A few hundred yards down, they broke out of the low forest and into a brush clearing. There was no grass here, just brush and that sandy rocky dirt. Is this a story about dirt and brush! I think in between edits, you realize the story had to start later than it did, but I still don't think you're there. There's no hook. If you want to start with the car ride or the flashback, you have to hint heavily that poo poo goes down at this barn with too many adjectives and brushy sandy rocky dirt clearing. Also, Brett is a douche but I am extremely ambivalent about him. I guess what I am trying to say is this is boring.
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Sep 7, 2012 21:39
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Subway Ninja, I'd at least reverse the order of the first sentence, if not cut out the "with detachment" part. I liked the dawning realization that came over me as my initial interpretation that something erotic was happening was revealed to be very incorrect. Overwined posted:Since you guys are into critique mode, maybe you can give me some help. I want to post two drafts of the opening ~500 words of a short story I have finished, but am currently trying to tighten the screws on. You spelled "conversation" as "converstaion" in the first sentence. Currently, the first name appears in paragraph 4, when people are "looking at Brett". Who's Brett? Oh, the viewpoint guy. You should probably mention the name of the viewpoint character earlier. If the blonde comes back into the plot later, you might want to give her a name, or if Brett didn't bother to get her name, mention that instead, that tells us something about Brett's character. I suppose it doesn't matter too much. Name or not, either way you'll probably have to remind the reader where she first appeared. My first instinct was to say that the first approach was better than starting out with a flashback, but ultrachrist put it better. I agree with him that there needs to be a better hook, I didn't find either opening to be that interesting. Brett being a womanizing shitheap came across clearly, but I didn't see any positive or interesting qualities that would make me want to keep reading despite the obvious negative ones.
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Sep 8, 2012 00:16
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Can you be a novelist without liking to read fiction? I don't really like reading other fiction works that much, but I don't have any other outlet for expressing my ideas besides prose. Is there any other resource I can turn to besides reading other people's works? I seriously don't remember the last time I really enjoyed reading a novel.
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Sep 8, 2012 20:07
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Nirvikalpa posted:Can you be a novelist without liking to read fiction? I don't really like reading other fiction works that much, but I don't have any other outlet for expressing my ideas besides prose. Is there any other resource I can turn to besides reading other people's works? I seriously don't remember the last time I really enjoyed reading a novel. Though if you're not reading what other people write you'll miss out on tricks of the trade to swipe, as well as running the risk of writing stuff that seems fresh and exciting to you but that everyone else has read three million times already and doesn't ever want to see again, let alone pay money for. Assuming you want to be a novelist who gets paid for it.... Resources in what sense? There are endless How To Write Fiction books out there, if that's what you mean.
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Sep 8, 2012 20:23
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Nirvikalpa posted:Can you be a novelist without liking to read fiction? I don't really like reading other fiction works that much, but I don't have any other outlet for expressing my ideas besides prose. Is there any other resource I can turn to besides reading other people's works? I seriously don't remember the last time I really enjoyed reading a novel. It's do-able, but it's like saying 'Can I become a musician without listening to music?' It's worth considering that writers don't tend to read for enjoyment, anyway - they read to learn. Enjoyment is just an added bonus!
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Sep 8, 2012 20:39
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Nirvikalpa posted:Can you be a novelist without liking to read fiction? Not unless the only novels you're interested in writing are TVtropes-esque genre fiction that reads like an anime script put to prose. If you don't like to read, you'll never be able to write worth a drat. It goes against the entire nature of the concept.
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Sep 8, 2012 21:11
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Subway Ninja, I'd at least reverse the order of the first sentence, if not cut out the "with detachment" part. I liked the dawning realization that came over me as my initial interpretation that something erotic was happening was revealed to be very incorrect. Thank you, and everyone else, for the helpful information. Still working on it, but I feel I'm moving in the right direction. That 'dawning realization' was exactly what I was going for, I just wasn't sure if it was going to work or turn people off before they finished the first sentence. With some restructuring and rewording, I think I can pull it off.
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Sep 8, 2012 21:20
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Oxxidation posted:Not unless the only novels you're interested in writing are TVtropes-esque genre fiction that reads like an anime script put to prose. If you don't like to read, you'll never be able to write worth a drat. It goes against the entire nature of the concept.
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Sep 8, 2012 23:30
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Nirvikalpa posted:Can you be a novelist without liking to read fiction? I don't really like reading other fiction works that much, but I don't have any other outlet for expressing my ideas besides prose. Is there any other resource I can turn to besides reading other people's works? I seriously don't remember the last time I really enjoyed reading a novel. Oh great, another Idea Guy. So you hate novels, but want to write one because you think it's the easiest way to get your ideas "out there." Let me guess, you'd rather make movies or something but all the novel-to-film projects have convinced you the only way your ideas will ever make it to the screen is becoming a successful novelist and having someone buy the rights to your famous novel and making a film out of it. Give me a moment while I laugh … Ok done. I'm going tell you, right now, if you don't like reading novels, then whatever novel you attempt to write is going to suck so hard you will never write anything good enough for anyone to give a drat. Writing a novel is goddamned hard work, not a golden ticket for the lazy, and you have to love the medium you choose to work in. When you make any kind of art, you have to love the process. This is what drives you to succeed, not your ideas. Ideas are a dime a dozen. Being a stone-cold badass wordslinger is what sells your ideas, and you will never become one unless you have a hungry enough mind to devour the words of badass wordslingers who've come before you. Great art is not created in a vacuum. It's a synthesis process. What comes out of you is the sum total of your experience, and if you have never experienced great writing, if it leaves you cold, then what comes out of you is going to reflect that. To sum up: Good writing = good reading + keen observation + elbow grease + feedback + more elbow grease. There is no escaping this equation. Anything less produces garbage. Garbage in = garbage out. Stuporstar fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Sep 9, 2012 |
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Sep 9, 2012 00:00
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drat you guys are harsh. I love it. To the two posters who commented on passages: I have to say on the larger point of the passage being needlessly meandering and boring, I've looked at it and I can't agree more. Thank you for shedding light on that. I think I sometimes fall in love with plot points or a plot arc and will sacrifice the quality of certain passages to service that arc/point. This is fiction, baby. You gotta know when to put it in a burlap sack and take it down to the river. The smaller crits are also valid, but mostly the product of a lovely edit. Good points, nonetheless. Unfortunately, Brett won't be any less of a shitheap throughout the story. He tries to redeem himself somewhere along the line there, but it's too little, too late. Hopefully the other characters and events make the overall thing interesting. I'm not really a believer in the notion that all main characters have to be likable.
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Sep 9, 2012 01:15
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Runcible Cat posted:The only qualification for being a novelist is to write novels. Eh, I don't think people will enjoy my writing enough to get paid substantially for it. I guess there are How To guides aplenty, but are any of them good? Adeptus posted:It's do-able, but it's like saying 'Can I become a musician without listening to music?' It's worth considering that writers don't tend to read for enjoyment, anyway - they read to learn. Enjoyment is just an added bonus! I've never heard of that before. What should I start reading, even if I don't like it? Stuporstar posted:Oh great, another Idea Guy. I don't want to write a "famous novel", I want to write an adequate book that maybe some people will like reading. And the books that get movies aren't necessarily the best books. Twilight and the Hunger Games both got books. I wouldn't write on the level of Twilight even if it meant I could get a movie out. Reading really is a joyless process for me. Probably the last book I enjoyed reading was Anna Karenina, except that I never finished, and I enjoyed reading the Sparknotes more than anything else. I also enjoyed reading the Sparknotes for The Sound and the Fury, but I feel like the book is utterly incomprehensible to me. Is there anything I can do to change my situation?
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Sep 9, 2012 03:28
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Nirvikalpa posted:Reading really is a joyless process for me. If you don't enjoy reading then maybe you shouldn't write? It's like a painter who doesn't copy past masters. Or a musician that doesn't listen to music. You're wasting your time if this is your attitude towards writing.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:41
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I think joyless might have been the wrong word. I like reading, but I don't really like what I'm reading. I think with non-fiction it's better because at least I'm learning. But with novels, I enjoy the process of reading, but I end up revolted by the subject matter most of the time or I can't understand it.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:48
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Nirvikalpa posted:I end up revolted by the subject matter most of the time or I can't understand it. Ok... be more specific about this. This is something I've never heard before, nor do I understand. Are you reading really dirty erotica? Snuff? Do you just pull random books off the shelf and get the same effect? What's giving you the urge to write if this is a your general feeling about reading fiction? I'm just curious.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:54
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Nirvikalpa posted:I think joyless might have been the wrong word. I like reading, but I don't really like what I'm reading. I think with non-fiction it's better because at least I'm learning. But with novels, I enjoy the process of reading, but I end up revolted by the subject matter most of the time or I can't understand it. You don't want to view the medium you're trying to produce in? Just get the gently caress out. Of course you can't be a writer worth a good goddamn if you don't read.
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Sep 9, 2012 03:55
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Nirvikalpa posted:I think joyless might have been the wrong word. I like reading, but I don't really like what I'm reading. I think with non-fiction it's better because at least I'm learning. But with novels, I enjoy the process of reading, but I end up revolted by the subject matter most of the time or I can't understand it.
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Sep 9, 2012 04:15
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Nirvikalpa posted:Eh, I don't think people will enjoy my writing enough to get paid substantially for it. I never said books that get movies are the best books, but those writers, even if the prose is poo poo, know the mechanics of story, and they get that from reading. S. Meyer may be a hack, but at least she's a hack who loves Shakespeare and Jane Austen—that enjoyment came through enough for many readers to enjoy her dumb garbage. How do you expect to enjoy writing a novel if you don't enjoy reading them? How do you expect anyone else to enjoy your writing if you get no joy from the imagery others create with words? As others have said, how would you expect to make music if you hated music? Would you enjoy a violin performance by someone who's completely tone deaf? That violinist might even pick up a book on playing the violin and have their fingers in all the right places, but they'll still end up sounding like nails on a chalkboard. Sentences are also tonal creations. There is one thing you can do to change your situation: find a type of fiction you like. If you said you hated music, but had only ever heard polka music, someone would say, there's more than polka music out there. You might find something you like if you keep trying new stuff. To completely brush off centuries of written fiction because you've picked up less than 50 novels in your life and went "blahh" is the height of ignorance. I don't enjoy half the poo poo I read, but I keep reading. Here's a different take. What kind of stories do you like? You must enjoy some kind of stories (at least in other media) if you have ideas to write a novel. Go ask for the type of stories you like in the "Recommend Me" thread in the book barn.
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Sep 9, 2012 04:24
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Nirvikalpa posted:I think joyless might have been the wrong word. I like reading, but I don't really like what I'm reading. I think with non-fiction it's better because at least I'm learning. But with novels, I enjoy the process of reading, but I end up revolted by the subject matter most of the time or I can't understand it. Then loving write non-fiction. Let me tell you something. If you think reading a good novel sucks, then boy howdy are you going to loving loathe writing a good novel, provided you are in any way able (you aren't).
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Sep 9, 2012 04:25
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In what world did you think that creating an artform that you hate would be a good career path to take? Nice new avatar, by the way. The hammer falls quick around here.
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Sep 9, 2012 05:21
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