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Mons Hubris posted:If only the Panthers' running game wasn't such garbage............ The recap for my game is pretty much just making fun of my team 
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Sep 12, 2012 03:44
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Vander posted:Does anyone know anything about http://pluslaw.com ? I spied them off of Craigslist and I was wondering if this seems like a good way to get started out there if I don't have a firm to land in when I move this winter. Advertising really is just a math formula. Who knows why it works but it does. Invest X and expect Y in return. If X doesn't pan out, keep trying something else. Eventually, you'll reach a point where you don't really need to run ads and you can rely on your referral network. I'm trying to get to that point.
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Sep 12, 2012 04:04
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Roger_Mudd posted:Advertising really is just a math formula. Who knows why it works but it does. Invest X and expect Y in return. If X doesn't pan out, keep trying something else. Me too. Craigslisting tomorrow.
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Sep 12, 2012 04:28
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Soothing Vapors posted:The recap for my game is pretty much just making fun of my team I didn't even know they had recaps. Must be a new thing this year.
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Sep 12, 2012 04:30
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1L question. I'm having a difficult time to get motivated to do full briefs of every case I read to make sure I'm ready for class, because I'm more interested in taking the couple actually important (as in they could be on the exam) facts/issues/holdings from the case instead. It feels like I'm spending a ton of time for stuff that just gets breezed over in class after someone recites the fact pattern. Am I going to shoot myself in the foot if I back off on the hardcore briefing come exam time? Basically I want to just read the case, take a some notes so I can at least answer questions in class, and try to identify what is actually important about the case at hand so I can add that to an outline.
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Sep 12, 2012 04:33
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Soothing Vapors posted:The recap for my game is pretty much just making fun of my team Mine too. "Wow your guys really underperformed, huh? Left that guy on the bench that had 514% of his expected points. And your opponent, boy, he must be some kind of genius, outperforming expectations by 150%. It's like he knew that Matt Ryan would demolish the Chiefs' second string defense that even made Graham Harrell look good last week."
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Sep 12, 2012 04:41
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Walamor posted:1L question. I'm having a difficult time to get motivated to do full briefs of every case I read to make sure I'm ready for class, because I'm more interested in taking the couple actually important (as in they could be on the exam) facts/issues/holdings from the case instead. It feels like I'm spending a ton of time for stuff that just gets breezed over in class after someone recites the fact pattern. Am I going to shoot myself in the foot if I back off on the hardcore briefing come exam time? Basically I want to just read the case, take a some notes so I can at least answer questions in class, and try to identify what is actually important about the case at hand so I can add that to an outline. I assumed that everyone stopped briefing or reading cases once every single case studied in law school got fully fleshed out on Wikipedia.
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Sep 12, 2012 04:47
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diospadre posted:I assumed that everyone stopped briefing or reading cases once every single case studied in law school got fully fleshed out on Wikipedia. A lot of students (1Ls at least) are somehow unaware of the multiple case briefing sites. What is told to us when we ask about them is that we won't really learn the cases by just looking them up. To be fair, some of my professors seem to talk about important things to take from the cases that the online ones don't cover. I just use them after I read to make sure I didn't miss anything important.
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Sep 12, 2012 04:50
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Walamor posted:A lot of students (1Ls at least) are somehow unaware of the multiple case briefing sites. What is told to us when we ask about them is that we won't really learn the cases by just looking them up. To be fair, some of my professors seem to talk about important things to take from the cases that the online ones don't cover. I just use them after I read to make sure I didn't miss anything important. You can find all sorts of extraneous bullshit from a case to talk about. Come exam time, you'll need to know the same thing from that case that every other law student needs to know.
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Sep 12, 2012 05:05
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CaptainScraps posted:Me too. Craigslisting tomorrow. Just be careful with the wording  I discovered the hard way that the bar (va at least) carefully monitors craigslist and all ads must strictly comply with the rules. Apparently using a plural pronoun in "call us" (meaning my secretary will be answering the phone) is borderline deceptive advertising even if you indicate a solo practice and give your name/address. Supposedly that indicates more than 1 attorney and is puffing... what the gently caress.So online postings like that could be gone over with a fine tooth comb. I make mine just a short primer to get them to call. MISSION CRITICAL: do not do initiate anything by email, I'd say don't even list your email address. The no-show rate for email-made appointments is through the roof. People seem to treat email scheduled appointments like its tentative. And you get long crazy questions from weirdo people that aren't gonna spend money. woozle wuzzle fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 05:19
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Walamor posted:Am I going to shoot myself in the foot if I back off on the hardcore briefing come exam time? Basically I want to just read the case, take a some notes so I can at least answer questions in class, and try to identify what is actually important about the case at hand so I can add that to an outline. Briefing is good at the beginning of 1L to help learn how to read a case. If you're getting the keys without it then sweet, if not, keep briefing for another few weeks until you do.
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Sep 12, 2012 05:31
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Walamor posted:1L question. I'm having a difficult time to get motivated to do full briefs of every case I read to make sure I'm ready for class, because I'm more interested in taking the couple actually important (as in they could be on the exam) facts/issues/holdings from the case instead. It feels like I'm spending a ton of time for stuff that just gets breezed over in class after someone recites the fact pattern. Am I going to shoot myself in the foot if I back off on the hardcore briefing come exam time? Basically I want to just read the case, take a some notes so I can at least answer questions in class, and try to identify what is actually important about the case at hand so I can add that to an outline. In my experience, the vast majority of students stopped briefing within like three weeks, for the reasons you touched on. It takes a ton of time and a lot of cases are really not that complicated, once you get the hang of reading them. I know a few people who kept briefing all throughout 1L and presumably still do, but really it's whatever floats your boat. You're going to hear a lot of stuff this semester about how exactly you should best prepare for exams, everything from bizarre multi-colored highlighting schemes to exactly what day to start outlining subjects to how to eat during finals. Most of this advice can be ignored. Try a few study methods out, sure, but just do whatever you feel most comfortable with. I'm a 2L and I see no correlation between how you study and how well you do. In terms of class prep, I read through the cases, underline important parts with my pen, and make various scrawls in the margins to indicate stuff like the holding or the defendant's argument.
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Sep 12, 2012 06:04
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Walamor posted:1L question. I'm having a difficult time to get motivated to do full briefs of every case I read to make sure I'm ready for class, because I'm more interested in taking the couple actually important (as in they could be on the exam) facts/issues/holdings from the case instead. It feels like I'm spending a ton of time for stuff that just gets breezed over in class after someone recites the fact pattern. Am I going to shoot myself in the foot if I back off on the hardcore briefing come exam time? Basically I want to just read the case, take a some notes so I can at least answer questions in class, and try to identify what is actually important about the case at hand so I can add that to an outline. Solid Lizzie fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 06:59
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Walamor posted:1L question. I'm having a difficult time to get motivated to do full briefs of every case I read to make sure I'm ready for class, because I'm more interested in taking the couple actually important (as in they could be on the exam) facts/issues/holdings from the case instead. It feels like I'm spending a ton of time for stuff that just gets breezed over in class after someone recites the fact pattern. Am I going to shoot myself in the foot if I back off on the hardcore briefing come exam time? Basically I want to just read the case, take a some notes so I can at least answer questions in class, and try to identify what is actually important about the case at hand so I can add that to an outline. A tip from an 8L who didn't realize this tip until 2L: Every single case that is on Wikipedia is already fully briefed. Trust me, there are six thousand gunners out there who are a) dumber than a box of gold fish crackers but b) more anal than something awful dot com forum member BigHead, who c) love Wikipedia. Use them. BigHead fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 07:16
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Be careful though. There were some cases in my 1L classes that did not have findable briefs online. And there was one brief for a case, the only one available, that actually gave me bad information and made a cold call pretty awkward. So if your professor cold calls, be wary of that.
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Sep 12, 2012 07:45
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Yeah, I think it goes without saying that if you can't find the brief on the interwebs, you should brief it yourself, and at least read the case on your own even if you're not going to fully brief it after. That way, when you grab a canned brief, alarms'll go off if it's completely wrong.
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Sep 12, 2012 08:28
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Walamor posted:1L question. I'm having a difficult time to get motivated to do full briefs of every case I read to make sure I'm ready for class, because I'm more interested in taking the couple actually important (as in they could be on the exam) facts/issues/holdings from the case instead. It feels like I'm spending a ton of time for stuff that just gets breezed over in class after someone recites the fact pattern. Am I going to shoot myself in the foot if I back off on the hardcore briefing come exam time? Basically I want to just read the case, take a some notes so I can at least answer questions in class, and try to identify what is actually important about the case at hand so I can add that to an outline. I'm a fan of self-composed briefs. Not the bullshit layout that the school teaches you. But having notes about a case consisting of a succinct fact section, the holding, and the court's rationale is great. I've gleaned three positives from putting in more effort on the front end in terms of writing briefs. If you write down case notes in this "brief" format: (1) you won't have to take as many notes during class because all the case-recitation crap that goes on is already in your notes, thereby allowing you to easily pick up the additional information that your specific professor finds important; (2) allows you to say "gently caress You, Casebook" around outlining/exam time, because everything you ever need is in your notes. I suggest saying this aloud and then throwing the book across the library tables for full beneficial effect; and (3) it forces you to think through and engage the court's opinion and reasoning, which -- at least for me -- helps me form a better grasp of the material in terms of both understanding and recollection. e: Basically I'm advocating for a happy medium between the ridiculously sized briefs 1Ls are taught and simply pulling from Wikipedia. Green Crayons fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 11:58
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Walamor posted:1L question. I'm having a difficult time to get motivated to do full briefs of every case I read to make sure I'm ready for class, because I'm more interested in taking the couple actually important (as in they could be on the exam) facts/issues/holdings from the case instead. It feels like I'm spending a ton of time for stuff that just gets breezed over in class after someone recites the fact pattern. Am I going to shoot myself in the foot if I back off on the hardcore briefing come exam time? Basically I want to just read the case, take a some notes so I can at least answer questions in class, and try to identify what is actually important about the case at hand so I can add that to an outline. I'm a 1L as well so my advice is almost certainly useless but I've also stopped briefing every case. I did it for about the first two weeks and now I just pull out the important things plus the bits I know my professor will specifically ask about. My contracts professor is really fact heavy and he's going to want to know all the ages and dates so I circle those instead of highlighting whereas my torts professor just cares about the basic fact pattern and the holding so I don't pull the extra stuff out. I figure by delineating between stuff I feel I want to know for the exam versus things I'm just noting for the benefit of a cold call it will make it easier when I'm 2+ months out from the case and going back and trying to remember what I learned from it.
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Sep 12, 2012 13:39
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Green Crayons posted:
This is more or less what I did too - I took some notes while reading in Word, so I didn't have to refer back to my casebook. But you don't need to do a giant, detailed case brief. The truest answer so far is just to do whatever feels comfortable to you, though.
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Sep 12, 2012 13:43
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Walamor, do you have Lynk for anything?
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Sep 12, 2012 16:22
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woozle wuzzle posted:Just be careful with the wording Cool thanks. Trying to figure out what the hell to do in case I don't have a job is scary! Incidentally (and a shot in the dark), but does anyone here have a Seattle- area person I can talk to about jobs and stuff?
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Sep 12, 2012 17:17
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Vander posted:Incidentally (and a shot in the dark), but does anyone here have a Seattle- area person I can talk to about jobs and stuff? I'm in Olympia if that's close enough. albiewangsta at gmail.com Bro Enlai fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 17:45
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Hey all, I'm a 1L at a school ranked between 15-30. I need some advice about about my situation. I graduated with 2 liberal arts degrees (History and Sociology) 4.0, PBK from a top ranked UG. I'm on a full ride with the school I'm at now. I initially had the dream to go to LS as a freshman in college in 2007 - just before the legal market collapsed. As time went on and I gained experience in day to day legal work I realized that I needed to carefully consider going forward but I did anyway. Reading this thread and a few other forums over the years, I was troubled at the situation with law schools since 2007. I was floating through life after I graduated and went to LS because of parental pressure, I didn't look for a job because I was prepping the LSAT's and, frankly, depressed because I felt like I had no other options. It was a negative feedback loop. I'm under 25. Spent my whole life in school. I'm not struggling with the material - I understand it, do my briefs etc. I can engage with the professors well, even though I hate getting cold called. I realize that the mechanics of being a lawyer, the ridiculous hypo debates by my classmates and professors and the pessimistic thinking engendered by this profession are starting to affect my quality of life, particularly my mental health, to an unacceptable degree. I have lost 10 pounds since school started and look better than I ever have on the outside, I have made a lot of friends and never have an unkind word to say about anybody, I've gotten a great tan, everyone likes me. Girls out of my league in college want to be around and spend time with me. I feel like its all artificial. I feel like I'm living a lie. I'm a grown, athletic man and I've almost started sobbing in class a few times now. I don't know where its coming from and thankfully no one has noticed. The last time was when one professor canceled class Monday afternoon - giving my section a three day weekend. I was so happy - I could go back home and see my friends and family until the very next period, another professor rescheduled his class to the free day -- at 8 in the morning -- for no reason. The average salary for private practice out of my school is around 90k. Which I'm guessing is midlaw @ 70 hours a week. Only 25% of the class will get paid employment the summer after 1L so I have been told by upperclassmen, I am guessing that 15% of those will be in biglaw. Needless to say, I'm thinking about dropping out. I know what I love to do and am working right now to get a job in the field - it will probably pay 55-75K at entry level. It's for work I do already as a hobby. Even though I don't have the ideal degree for it, I have high grades and I know that I can do the work. I would be essentially getting paid to do what I already do in my spare time. My strategy this year is dependent on my exam results at the end of the semester: If I can get top 20% and get a job over the summer, while living at home, I think I can save around 20K per year - so 60k at graduation. I also think I can transfer to a better school in a location ideal for me, stop going to classes and just cram for exams and scrape by for 2 years. Then work in the field I want to be in. If I get the position in my unrelated field, I'll probably be living at home for a year or two and be able to save 40k a year. I also have assets of about 50k currently. I manage my own money. So the situation if it stuck it out over 3 years would be: 120k saved, around 80k a yr salary after the third year, no JD OR 60K saved, JD, 90K salary (if I land a job). My real questions are: If I can't do top 20% and get a job or transfer - should I drop out of school at the end of semester or try and tough it out for the whole year? How do I tell my parents I want to drop out? They have wanted me to be a lawyer my whole life. They told me LS would be different from the LSAT when I wanted to quit right there. They know that I'm not going to practice. They keep saying that a JD will open so many doors for me but the reality that I am seeing on a day to day basis is very different. I also don't think they appreciate the that I'm going to a lower ranked school that lacks the impact of a T14's name. Another thing that they keep harping on is that my JD will help me "in leaner times" because everyone will need basic legal poo poo done. I think that this might be true, but I don't know how long it will last with this legal outsourcing and electronic legal stuff and frankly all the people with JD's they know who fell back on it in "leaner times" were childlike with their money. Another big argument they use is that there are simply no jobs for college graduates. It's like they think that I'll turn into a heroin addict on the streets if I'm not in school. They don't have faith in me to look for work I guess. My goals are to work in the field I love, to be financially independent and to eventually work for myself. I don't mind working hard - I just cant work hard at the kind of stuff attorneys are meant to work hard at. I'm also at the age where I'm realizing that life is short and 3 years is a significant chunk of the time I have here. Advise me wise folk of this thread, I sorely need some direction. Canescans fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 18:15
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You're giving waaaay too much weight to your parents, which is problematic generally, but really bad when they're operating on now-erroneous assumptions that have outlived their wisdom in the current legal market and our overall economy ("JDs will open doors" - not at all like they used to.)
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Sep 12, 2012 18:30
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Canescans posted:I'm a grown, athletic man and I've almost started sobbing in class a few times now. I don't know where its coming from and thankfully no one has noticed. Regardless of whether you drop out or stay in, go see a therapist to resolve this issue. You may think that it's related to law school, but it may not be. Law school may be bringing out some underlying issues. Better to examine this now than drop out of law school and assume it will go away. You may find that your feelings have nothing to do with law school - and maybe you'll start to enjoy it. As for dropping out or staying in, I vote that you get out. You obviously don't want to be a lawyer, and this profession is tough enough for people who want to be in it. That right there is enough justification to get out of law school. Coupled with the fact that your emotional state is destabilizing? Yeah, get out. Wait till the end of the semester, I suppose, see how your grades are, but even if you get great grades, I feel like you should still get out. The fact that you have a full ride is negated by the negative effects on your mental health - if you stay in law school for all three years, but you leave with your mental health in tatters, you've just hosed yourself (and your career success) for the foreseeable future.
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Sep 12, 2012 18:41
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Ya, it's a big problem for me. I'm an only child and they have sacrificed a lot to get me where I am. I feel like I at least owed it to them to give it a shot with Law School - they were so proud when I got in. I try to explain to them in great detail but they just don't seem to understand the realities. I have run out of options to make them understand, I just don't know how to. I've started networking with people for a job and I'm in the process of updating my resume etc. My dad has been helping me but he says that I need to stick it out for a year in school so it wont look bad on my resume. I'm afraid of not having the strength to continue if I don't make the grades at the end of this term.
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Sep 12, 2012 18:43
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Green Crayons posted:I don't see anything about wanting to be a lawyer.
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Sep 12, 2012 18:47
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Canescans posted:Hey all, E/N is thataway edit: I've thought about killing myself 2-3 times this week and I'm a ~law school success story~ If being a 1L has you on the verge of a breakdown, you are not going to make it, quit now Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 18:58
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I didn't have my breakdown until winter break 3L, of all the loving times to have it. Get out while you can.
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Sep 12, 2012 19:09
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entris posted:Regardless of whether you drop out or stay in, go see a therapist to resolve this issue. You may think that it's related to law school, but it may not be. Law school may be bringing out some underlying issues. Better to examine this now than drop out of law school and assume it will go away. You may find that your feelings have nothing to do with law school - and maybe you'll start to enjoy it. I quit drinking before LS but not because of it. I never understood how thoroughly endemic alcohol is to this profession. I have only been honest with one or two people that "don't" actually means "can't." I also know that taking another drink at this stage in my life is simply not an option. I find that these feelings of hopelessness arise when I'm physically sitting in class and hearing my classmates speak, the cases are mildly entertaining and for the most part, accessible. I have no problem with the one exam/no homework model either. quote:The fact that you have a full ride is negated by the negative effects on your mental health - if you stay in law school for all three years, but you leave with your mental health in tatters, you've just hosed yourself (and your career success) for the foreseeable future. Thanks for this.
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Sep 12, 2012 19:11
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If you grabbed onto a hot iron and it was burning the hell out of you, would you keep your hand on it just because your parents told you you'd get a cool scar that chicks would dig I guess what I'm saying is that JDs are like cattle, being branded in preparation for the captive bolt gun
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Sep 12, 2012 19:35
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Canescans I wrote a long response to you, then reread your posts and realized you don't intend to practice law itself. It's just the vague "it opens doors" thing, like you could do your cousins will or something. And that moved me from saying you should get out, to SAYING YOU SHOULD GET OUT. Everybody and their dog has a JD now. I honestly think even if you made top 5% of your class, could transfer, and get the super job: you'd loving hate it. Like hate it with the burning passion of a thousand suns. You've been in this 20 year ratrace of school, and come out of law school like a cannon shot to be rewarded with a job you hate. That's a really tough pill to swallow, especially when you have the built in greener pastures of your hobby job potential (which you must share with us, btw).
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Sep 12, 2012 19:49
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Vander posted:Cool thanks. Trying to figure out what the hell to do in case I don't have a job is scary! I'm in SoCal these days but keep very close watch on what's going on up there (because I plan to be back eventually) - what you looking for? Sigmachiev at yahoo dot com
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Sep 12, 2012 20:04
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Sulecrist posted:Walamor, do you have Lynk for anything? I actually go to Cincinnati law, I went to ASU for undergrad. Thanks for the advice from everyone about briefing, much appreciated!
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Sep 12, 2012 20:26
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You should probably have more compelling goals as to what you want from life and reasons for the things that you do than what your parents expect and want for you. Your issue doesn't really seem to be law school Also if your big plan is to roll the dice and simply hope that it comes up lucky 20% your big plan sucks edit: Although in fairness the upper echelons of my class, grade-wise, was full of your "type" -- nebbish, anxious 20-something people who went straight through their undergrad to law school, had little to no life experience, and seemed to be motivated entirely by a fear of disappointing mom and dad. So I guess you may have a decent chance of reaching that brass ring, especially when your fear of your parents motivates you into actually doing your work when everyone else is playing MMOs, drinking themselves blind, and loving off. Pretty decent chance you're not going to like practice so much though! terrorist ambulance fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 20:32
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woozle wuzzle posted:Everybody and their dog has a JD now.
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Sep 12, 2012 20:48
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woozle wuzzle posted:I honestly think even if you made top 5% of your class, could transfer, and get the super job: you'd loving hate it. Like hate it with the burning passion of a thousand suns. You've been in this 20 year ratrace of school, and come out of law school like a cannon shot to be rewarded with a job you hate. That's a really tough pill to swallow, especially when you have the built in greener pastures of your hobby job potential (which you must share with us, btw). I agree with this picture. Also, Canescans you have to share your hobby job with us. Please, let us vicariously imagine doing a job that is fun and rewarding and life-affirming. edit: ALSO, Canescans - you are a recovering alcoholic? You are now in law school, you are beginning to experience strong, unexplained negative emotional responses, and you don't like the profession of law. If your parents give you poo poo about quitting law school, they are quite literally trying to ruin your life. Because if you stay in law school, I'd say the probability of relapse is near 100%, and then you really will be hosed. (BTW congrats on four months of sobriety!)
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Sep 12, 2012 20:48
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Yeah, I feel like knowing what this hobby-to-job thing of yours is is important. Since you're going for free and (I think) living at home, is this something you could expand into a half-job or mostly-job and just phone it in at law school? Can you freelance? Edit: I'm not saying that would necessarily be the best choice if possible, but it might be an option. Also if you get high enough grades to transfer, it probably won't be worth it to transfer. Top 10% at T20 beats incoming transfer student at T6 who will be spending $150,000 more (two years of tuition and cost-of-not-living-with-parents). MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 21:34
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Canescans posted:Needless to say, I'm thinking about dropping out. I know what I love to do and am working right now to get a job in the field - it will probably pay 55-75K at entry level. It's for work I do already as a hobby. Even though I don't have the ideal degree for it, I have high grades and I know that I can do the work. I would be essentially getting paid to do what I already do in my spare time. I'd stay in school - some day you can be like me. Also, tell me this hobby/possible job of yours or I swear to god I will turn my hate from inward to outward and direct its full wrath upon you.
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Sep 12, 2012 22:53
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Canescans posted:Ya, it's a big problem for me. I'm an only child and they have sacrificed a lot to get me where I am. I feel like I at least owed it to them to give it a shot with Law School - they were so proud when I got in. I try to explain to them in great detail but they just don't seem to understand the realities. I have run out of options to make them understand, I just don't know how to. If your drop-out plan involves living with these people for a year or two to save $40k/year, you should probably rent a place and plan on saving less than $40k/year instead. Also, drop out of law school and see a therapist. Consider yourself lucky you got out with a healthier body, with your sanity (mostly), with your money and your time.
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Sep 12, 2012 22:56
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