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Live $2/$5. Standard loosish table. I have no reads on villain. Effective stacks are $800ish. 2 limpers including villain who is in MP. I make it $35 on the CO with A  J, both limpers call, blinds fold.Flop comes J  86 (Pot: ~$110)First limper checks. Villain bets $100. Raise or call? I call, first limper folds. Turn comes 9 . (Pot: ~$310)Villain bets $275. I...? I ended up folding mainly because of the bet size was huge (I would have likely had to play for stacks at that point) and because that was one of the worst cards in the deck for me (limp/callers' ranges typically smack that type of board very hard). Does this line seem reasonable?
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Aug 17, 2012 06:55
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| # ? May 23, 2024 19:21 |
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http://weaktight.com/4925228 Simple call for me pre-flop. I shouldn't be calling here, right? This guy seemed pretty solid over 300 hands, at least within the context of $6 NL. I'm pretty sure this is never a bluff, just a strange "value" move because it is so ostensibly bluffy.
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Aug 17, 2012 13:40
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Mind_Taker posted:Live $2/$5. Standard loosish table. I have no reads on villain. Effective stacks are $800ish. T.J.Brooker posted:http://weaktight.com/4925228 Meep fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Aug 17, 2012 |
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Aug 17, 2012 15:06
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Meep posted:Yeah, seems fine, except if you think someone who is doing this kind of retarded move is solid over 300 hands you're probably not very good at judging players. It was genuinely the first time I'd seen him step out of line. Till then he just seemed like a standard regular. That's why I was so confused by the hand, it's not unusual to see moves like that when playing the micros but there is usually some indication beforehand.
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Aug 17, 2012 15:12
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Yeah fair enough, it could be a missclick on his part. There's also a lot of nitty preflop players who have no idea how to play postflop so they do dumb poo poo like that when they finally hit. But anyways, most people who do huge overshoves at low stakes have it. Folding in those spots is going to save you money in the long run.
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Aug 17, 2012 15:21
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Mind_Taker posted:Live $2/$5. Standard loosish table. I have no reads on villain. Effective stacks are $800ish. quote:Turn comes 9 it's a slightly ahead/super-far behind spot. Dr. Eat fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Aug 18, 2012 |
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Aug 18, 2012 14:36
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Preface: I'm a n00b. I was looking around for a decent writeup on c-bets in general, and how they work in cash games in particular, found this http://www.cardschat.com/continuation-betting-poker.php It seems like a good breakdown, but on the other hand I'm not really at a level when I can tell when someone is saying good sense or is a blithering idiot. Does that writeup seem like an accurate intro to c-betting?
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Aug 26, 2012 02:22
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At a glance it seems fine. If you're new to the game get some books, they will cover cbetting and other things you need to work on to round out your game.
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Aug 26, 2012 06:14
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Do you have a hud? Because the fold to c-bet stat can do a lot of the work for you at micro stakes.
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Aug 26, 2012 22:59
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1-3 at the local casino. Effective stacks $250, table is looser than most at this level. Betting is capped after the third raise. Hero is in the SB with AKo. BB is a reg, who doesn't have to show down all that often. Folded around to MP who makes it $12, folded to Hero who raises to $26. BB raises to $105. MP folds. Hero ???
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Aug 27, 2012 17:13
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Smells like QQ or JJ. He raised way too much though, so I would fold because you're getting the wrong pot odds to call and hope to hit an Ace or King, plus he's not going to pay you off if you do unless he hits his set. Also, why did you almost min-raise 3-bet? You should be raising more, closer to $36ish.
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Aug 27, 2012 18:08
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3-bet bigger the "wrong pot odds to call" discussion is pretty useless, it's clearly a shove or fold spot also "is a reg" doesn't tell us anything whatsoever about reads. if your only read is "i have seen him here before" then I'd snap fold. i'd probably fold vs most live 1-3 villains though, especially considering how tiny your 3bet is. the 4bet is huge though, which I agree is sometimes weighted towards AK/QQ depending on villain. Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Aug 27, 2012 |
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Aug 27, 2012 18:40
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Blinky2099 posted:3-bet bigger It's capped at 3 bets, so he cannot jam if I understand correctly? Making it a call or fold situation. I would fold.
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Aug 27, 2012 19:54
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Blinky2099 posted:the "wrong pot odds to call" discussion is pretty useless, it's clearly a shove or fold spot That's the third raise, and according to him betting is capped. He can call with the intention of shoving but he can't shove, it's a call or fold spot and he should fold. E:F,b.
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Aug 27, 2012 19:54
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oh I can't read, thanks. Fold sounds good!
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Aug 27, 2012 22:00
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Is that a common rule? That seems really strange to me.
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Aug 27, 2012 22:16
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Where's this casino? Never heard of capped betting in a NLHE game before... Def 3bet minimum of 35. Easy fold to the cold 4bet. Think QQ is rock bottom of his range least from what I've seen at LLSNL. Any other reads on the BB aside from him being a reg? How much have you been 3betting? Have you shown down any hands you 3bet with? Is this his first 4bet?
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Aug 28, 2012 00:28
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It's Tulalip, near Seattle. Not sure if the 4-bet rule is a state law (like the $500 wager cap is). He was definitely one of the livelier players preflop but this was his first 4-bet. I also read it as an all-in or fold moment and folded since I couldn't shove.
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Aug 28, 2012 06:42
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I'm a reg at Tulalip, and yes, the 4-bet cap rule is annoying. It's also technically spread limit instead of NL, because of a $500 max bet at a time rule. It doesn't come into play much in 1-3, where buyins are short, but it does have a pronounced effect in the larger games (leading their "PLO" game to become a 500 limit Omaha High game).
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Aug 28, 2012 21:38
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This eagle has landed as well, welcome to TG little thread.
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Aug 30, 2012 03:57
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PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com Hero (Button) ($30.19) SB ($40.07) BB ($9) UTG ($25) MP ($24.12) CO ($27.47) Preflop: Hero is Button with XX UTG bets $0.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.75, SB calls $0.65, 1 fold Flop: ($2.50) 10 , 6, 2 (3 players)SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $1.79, SB calls $1.79, 1 fold Turn: ($6.08) J (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $3.48, SB calls $3.48 River: ($13.04) K (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $9.25, SB raises to $34.05 (All-In) SB is Spasms. Not sure if he still posts here. He's got really lag stats and I know he's good. UTG is a weak tight regfish. What's the worst hand you call the shove with? Also what's the worst value hand SB should do this with? Also, I have no idea what SB thinks of me cause it's zoom and he only has 100ish hands on me. AARO fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Sep 11, 2012 |
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Sep 11, 2012 13:41
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olin posted:SB is Spasms. He's got really lag stats and I know he's good. UTG is a weak tight regfish. What's the worst hand you call the shove with? Also what's the worst value hand SB should do this with? Also, I have no idea what SB thinks of me cause it's zoom and he only has 100ish hands on me. Well he didn't take the most credible line ever. We rep pretty narrowly but the sizing on turn is a little small so a flush is the most likely hand in my mind. And I assume we have a set or a flush. A lot of his FDs are going to ch/r flop because they have combo equity, and a flush is all he reps. KT is never ch/shipping river here but if he called twice with a 6 or a T he could easily turn it into a bluff. If he somehow floated with KJ he isn't going to ch/shove for value. We could easily have a lot of airy hands that get checked to on flop and bet, then we picked up some heart equity and bet again. Then river came another overcard and we bet again. So based on all that I think he has enough cause to want to bluff this into our face and depending on how much he 3bets he might be 3betting a ton of his suited hands. QJ is probably the worst hand I call with that I play this way but if i had QT i'd call that too.
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Sep 11, 2012 16:59
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We can have sets, straights, and flushes here. Sure given that hes very laggy this can definitely be a bluff (and seeing how the hand was posted it makes me thing it was), but a lot more often it is gonna be someone looking at the board, seeing how wet it is and swinging for the fences with the nuts. Also how often do you 3 barrel? how thinly would you value bet this river? Also would you 3-bet or flat AQ in this spot preflop?
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Sep 11, 2012 18:46
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TheAbortionator posted:
I'd probably bet AJ on the river. Don't know about a weaker J. I'd 3bet an utg fish with AQ on btn a lot of the time. The thing is Sb has like 100 hands on me only so I really have no idea how often he thinks I do anything. Zoom with 100 hands he could see me as a total nit or a maniac depending on which hands he was present for. HEM/pokertracker really needs to make a reverse hud feature so that you can see what stats vil has on you (providing he's had a hud running on all hands you've played together). Also I started the hand with $30 while Sb started with $40 so its only actually $15 more for me to call his shove. AARO fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Sep 11, 2012 |
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Sep 11, 2012 20:16
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gross spot indeed, its still hurting my brain thinking about it.
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Sep 11, 2012 23:35
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*** RIVER *** [T 6 2 J] [K] Spasms: checks hero: bets $9.25 Spasms: raises $24.80 to $34.05 and is all-in hero: calls $14.92 and is all-in Uncalled bet ($9.88) returned to Spasms *** SHOW DOWN *** Spasms: shows [J  J] (three of a kind, Jacks)hero: shows [A 5] (a flush, Ace high)hero collected $59.38 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $61.38 | Rake $2 Board [Th 6h 2c Jh Kc] Seat 1: hero (button) showed [A 5] and won ($59.38) with a flush, Ace highSeat 2: Spasms (small blind) showed [J J] and lost with three of a kind, JacksSeat 3: minojkaAA (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: XBOCT-CAMAPA folded on the Flop Seat 5: tashthemom69 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: princeawful folded before Flop (didn't bet) I guess i was just wondering what I would do here with 22 though. It seems like you guys would snap. But I almost feel like I could fold that hand. His hand looks so much like a flush/set to me. AARO fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 18:25
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olin posted:I guess i was just wondering what I would do here with 22 though. It seems like you guys would snap. But I almost feel like I could fold that hand. His hand looks so much like a flush/set to me. His line is terrible. If he's raising he should raise flop or turn or preflop. River is the nut worst spot to raise.
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Sep 12, 2012 18:33
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But what about what you said before.quote:We could easily have a lot of airy hands that get checked to on flop and bet, then we picked up some heart equity and bet again. Then river came another overcard and we bet again. I mean I guess I can see cr/c against me and cr fold against utg on the flop. But if he does call the flop, raising the turn looks crazy. Especially when he hits top set how is he supposed to get value from my bluff heavy range? Which is why I'm wondering if he would have played the hand perfectly if he had just called the river with anything less than a flush. AARO fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 18:42
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olin posted:But what about what you said before. Your bluffing range is going to be mostly semibluffs that have a lot of turn equity and probably don't want to fold. Also I was only saying that he can think you are bluffing here often because your value range is pretty narrow. I think raising flop is probably the best line, but raising turn is probably fine too given that we're going to have a decent chunk of equity that we want to call with. Raising river is the worst because we're never ever calling worse. You were thinking about folding with a set, it's really hard for a shove here to be good for him.
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Sep 12, 2012 18:48
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Ok that makes sense. And I think you're right about flop cr being best for him. Because if a draw doesn't hit I might call him down with any ten when he check raises flop after the pf raiser doesn't cbet and then I bet on btn. He can defiently put me on air and cr with overs or any gutshot etc. Thanks guys. Sorry for the cooler Spasms. AARO fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 18:59
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olin posted:Ok that makes sense. And I think you're right about flop cr being best for him. Because if a draw doesn't hit I might call him down with any ten when he check raises flop after the pf raiser doesn't cbet and then I bet on btn. He can defiently put me on air and cr with overs or any gutshot etc. Don't apologize. YOU PLAYED IT CRAPPY SPASMS
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Sep 12, 2012 19:34
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Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Cake Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com BB ($4.05) UTG ($8.61) Hero (MP) ($3.74) CO ($2.43) Button ($5.70) SB ($4.23) Preflop: Hero is MP with K , Q1 fold, Hero bets $0.12, 3 folds, BB calls $0.08 Flop: ($0.26) 7 , 2, Q (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $0.20, BB raises $0.64, Hero calls $0.44 Turn: ($1.54) A (2 players)BB bets $1.16, Hero folds Total pot: $1.54 Should I have called this here? I was a little scared of a set or pocket kings/aces but I figured the betting could be consistent with AK that missed or even just air. Edit: If I'm just starting (~1500 hands) should I be worried that my green and blue lines are in pretty steep decline with the red slightly below breaking even? The steady decline is making me think that I'm doing something fundamentally wrong but I'm not sure how to evaluate my own stats to look for problems from HM2 stats. Virtue fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Sep 12, 2012 |
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Sep 12, 2012 22:13
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Virtue posted:Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Cake Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com Sample size is too low. The turn is dependent on what level your opponent is on - the A is a decent card to barrel on, so if you're calling flop then you should call turn usually, unless you have a read that your opponent is too bad to do that, or that he knows you know its a good card to barrel so he doesn't. You only beat a bluff, and you got check/raised on a dry flop in a spot where a lot of players will mostly have pocket pairs in their range, so you should probably have a plan cause this looks like way ahead or way behind and in general vs lovely opponents I'd call it way behind
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Sep 13, 2012 01:02
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Virtue posted:Edit: If I'm just starting (~1500 hands) should I be worried that my green and blue lines are in pretty steep decline with the red slightly below breaking even? The steady decline is making me think that I'm doing something fundamentally wrong but I'm not sure how to evaluate my own stats to look for problems from HM2 stats. Basically the same question just got posted in another thread and the answer is no, don't worry about it.
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Sep 13, 2012 03:13
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Interesting hand in live $2/$5 tonight. Villain is a good player who can be tricky and I have played with him a lot. Aggressive preflop and a pretty good hand-reader post flop. Has suffered a few bad beats tonight but doesn't look flustered. He is caught bluffing every now and then, moreso than most players. He probably sees me as a competent looser player. Effective stacks are $1400. Folds to me in the HJ, I have A 2 and make it $20. Villain calls on the button, BB calls.Flop: 7 33 (Pot - $62)BB checks, I bet $35, Villain raises to $105. BB folds, I call. As I mentioned he's somewhat tricky so he could be raising this flop with anything really, including flush draws, straight draws, and of course value hands like trips and 77, and maybe big pairs that he slow-played preflop. Folding seems a bit too nitty here and raising seems spewy so I decide to call. Turn: 2 (Pot - $272)I check. Villain bets $190. I call $190. I turn a pair but it's really a blank unless he was bluffing with a better ace high. I think calling here was a mistake, should I have folded here? River: 2 (Pot - $662)I check. Villain bets $450. I...?
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Sep 13, 2012 08:18
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Snap call. He's got a bunch of missed draws and over pairs. I think raising is too thin.
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Sep 13, 2012 12:27
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I can't see too many overpairs in his range. TT+ is probably 3-betting pre as he 3-bets a lot. I guess he could turn 88-99 into a bluff on the river if he thought he could bluff me off a bigger overpair as that's definitely a big part of my perceived range. And with the way the board ran out, do you really think he continues bluffing on two horrible bluff cards when he knows he is repping very little? I understand that if he is on a missed draw his only way to win the pot is to bet river, but given his aggressive image and that board runout looking back at it it just doesn't look like a bluff as he knows I am calling that river very often after two bricks.
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Sep 13, 2012 15:34
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Mind_Taker posted:Folding seems a bit too nitty here and raising seems spewy so I decide to call. This is just not a good reason to do anything. "well i dont like one and i dont like hte other so i did the third one" Anyway I'm not really sure what your read is on him. You say he can have draws and air and value on the flop but if that's the case we should just be 3betting flop. If he has a lot of value hands on flop and a loose btn calling range I'm fine with flatting. Then you want to fold turn because... you think he's only ever continuing with the nuts? I think that line would be fine if he's a nit and he's not doing this with anything airy, but I think it'd be really weird if he was the kind of "good" player who raises flop with gutshots and fds and doesn't continue on the turn with some kind of plan in mind. I'm not sure what to do on the river because it seems like we have two conflicting ideas of villain. Also I think if he's raising flop as a bluff often he's probably betting way too much on turn and river because if I'm bluffing this flop I'm probably just raising once and giving up.
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Sep 13, 2012 17:30
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I called the flop because I think that often enough I have the best hand given the action so far. I am way ahead of any flush/straight/combo draws, and if he has trips I have flush outs and decent implied odds. Against this range why would I 3-bet flop? I guess I'm getting him to fold better hands like 88 or 99 sometimes or maybe better ace highs that he felt like bluffing with. But he's also going to fold his weaker draws (like gutshot straight draws) and weak club draws which I absolutely want to stay in the hand. He's also going to 4-bet his stronger draws (combo draws and maybe hands like K X) which would be gross for me seeing as we're 280 BBs deep and he's also going to 4-bet value hands like trips and full houses. I don't think he ever flats with any draw that I want to stay in.Since posting last night I decided that I am fine with my turn call, especially since my hand looks like an overpair and I think I have great implied odds if a club does hit as I think he will bet a river club like 95% of the time and will call a check-raise with weaker clubs often enough. When he blasts that river though it just seems so believable. Everything bricked and I'd expect a giveup here or a smaller bet size if he was bluffing instead of a 2/3 PSB. At this point I don't think he's expecting to me fold my overpairs very often so I think he's going for max value.
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Sep 13, 2012 18:02
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| # ? May 23, 2024 19:21 |
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The range that you lose to is 77 or 33 (maybe 34s?) based on your assessment of the player. That's so narrow. If he's three barreling 5-10% of the time with missed draws and overpairs, that will make this a call.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:33
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