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Declan MacManus posted:Rob Johnson was the original starter and Flutie came in to replace him; Flutie proceeded to win a lot of games (in 1998). Next season (1999) was an open competition, and Flutie won, but Rob Johnson looked really good against a lovely Colts defense when Flutie was resting, so Wade Phillips decided to start him in the playoffs. And we all know how well that went
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Sep 12, 2012 07:35
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JetsGuy posted:Hey stupid question because I am really Sure it can. What they're terrified of (especially with instant replay hanging over them) is only running a 1.5 second kneeldown and leaving time on the clock.
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Sep 12, 2012 09:16
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as to why the Bolts punted last night.
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Trin Tragula posted:Sure it can. What they're terrified of (especially with instant replay hanging over them) is only running a 1.5 second kneeldown and leaving time on the clock. To be technical, would it actually be a turnover on downs? Once the clock strikes zero (controlling for penalty ramifications), that's the last down and there are no other downs beyond it correct? So if you imagine a silly scramble or an aborted punt in an effort to run whatever marginal number of seconds off the clock, if they do it successfully the other team never takes possession do they?
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Sep 12, 2012 14:17
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Well, (NCAA) 3-2-1-a says:quote:No period shall end until the ball is dead and the referee declares the period ended. And Rule 5-1-1 applies immediately the ball becomes dead at the end of the down: quote:c. A new series shall be awarded to Team B if, after fourth down, Team A has failed to earn a first down. So the rulebook sequence of events goes something like this: Ball snapped on 4th down Time expires in the 4th period The ball becomes dead Team A has failed to make the line to gain Team B is awarded a new series The referee declares the game over
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Sep 12, 2012 16:44
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Trin Tragula posted:Well, (NCAA) 3-2-1-a says: So the conventional wisdom is that a period can't end on a defensive penalty. If the defense commits a dead ball foul (say a personal foul after the last down of the period), is that an exception to the rule?
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Sep 12, 2012 17:22
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Trin Tragula posted:Sure it can. What they're terrified of (especially with instant replay hanging over them) is only running a 1.5 second kneeldown and leaving time on the clock. Most teams in this case either launch the ball on an intentionally overthrown go route or snap it to their punter and have him run around and take a knee when the clock runs out.
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Sep 12, 2012 17:29
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JetsGuy posted:So the conventional wisdom is that a period can't end on a defensive penalty. If the defense commits a dead ball foul (say a personal foul after the last down of the period), is that an exception to the rule? This one's a hella deep rabbit hole. I was halfway to an answer, then went into the NFL book and had to delete it all and start again. NCAA: The untimed down rule can be triggered if a penalty is enforced against either team, or by offsetting penalties. It only applies to live-ball fouls during a down in which time expires, and does not apply if the penalty includes loss of down. NFL: The untimed down rule is only triggered by an enforced defensive team penalty (note that in this context, "defense" refers to the team that does not have the ball at that moment in time, and not the team that did not snap the ball at the start of the down) or by an offset. Personal fouls that occur "in the immediate action after the ball is dead" are enforced as live-ball fouls and may be followed by an untimed down.
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Sep 12, 2012 17:58
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Trin Tragula posted:This one's a hella deep rabbit hole. I was halfway to an answer, then went into the NFL book and had to delete it all and start again. Yeah I know that's a really strange hypothetical, with how the Raiders play, I just imagined it could very well have happened. Thanks a ton for checking the official rulings Trin!
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Sep 12, 2012 18:25
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jeffersonlives posted:Most teams in this case either launch the ball on an intentionally overthrown go route or snap it to their punter and have him run around and take a knee when the clock runs out. We spent about 5 minutes during the special teams part of the walkthrough session prior to our first game each season timing the QB on out of bounds go route hang time for this exact purpose.
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Sep 12, 2012 21:50
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jeffersonlives posted:Most teams in this case either launch the ball on an intentionally overthrown go route or snap it to their punter and have him run around and take a knee when the clock runs out. Or have Blackmon sprint forty yards out the back of his own endzone for a safety, if you're more than two points up
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Sep 12, 2012 23:19
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Declan MacManus posted:Rob Johnson was the original starter and Flutie came in to replace him; Flutie proceeded to win a lot of games (in 1998). Next season (1999) was an open competition, and Flutie won, but Rob Johnson looked really good against a lovely Colts defense when Flutie was resting, so Wade Phillips decided to start him in the playoffs. Yes. Good summary. That doomed Phillips because not only was it an extremely stupid move from a football perspective, it was horrible on the fanbase who LOVED Flutie. Rob Jonhson was a physical specimen with an absolutely incredible lack of pocket awareness. Flutie in many ways was the exact opposite. He brought so plays back from the absolute death, and was even more enjoyable to watch than Kelly.
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Sep 13, 2012 06:07
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What is the fascination with college football in America? I can understand if you live in an area not easily accessible to an NFL team, but I know people that don't even care about the NFL but are insanely religious about this and that college team. If the best players go to the NFL and it's all the same rules (pretty much), isn't college football just an inferior version of the NFL? I hope this question didn't sound condescending because I don't mean it that way at all. It just seems to me that a lot of people would rather watch an amateur sport when the professional version is right there.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:25
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Stephen posted:What is the fascination with college football in America? I can understand if you live in an area not easily accessible to an NFL team, but I know people that don't even care about the NFL but are insanely religious about this and that college team. If the best players go to the NFL and it's all the same rules (pretty much), isn't college football just an inferior version of the NFL? College football is far older and how the sport was founded and played for the first 40 years of its life. In addition, when you attend college you have a team given to you where everyone else you know roots for that team, you get tickets to that team, and that team dominates life. Those players are younger and preparing for the pros and you interact with them and become bound by your shared university with them. You build this intense bond between football and your college life in a way that the NFL cannot hope to match.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:30
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Barudak posted:College football is far older and how the sport was founded and played for the first 40 years of its life. In addition, when you attend college you have a team given to you where everyone else you know roots for that team, you get tickets to that team, and that team dominates life. Those players are younger and preparing for the pros and you interact with them and become bound by your shared university with them. You build this intense bond between football and your college life in a way that the NFL cannot hope to match. The way you describe it makes me a bit jealous that I didn't get to be a part of an American college. =(
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Sep 13, 2012 21:38
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As another more general reason most NFL teams look more or less close to other NFL teams. The college game has much greater variation in offensive systems, from a Mike Leach air raid to Chip Kelly at Oregon to the flexbone option offenses and lots of others. A lot of the innovation you see incorporated into NFL offenses comes from someone having success doing that at the college level. That's probably a lot lower on the list of reasons to watch than some stuff in Baraduk's post, but it can be pretty damned fun.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:40
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Grittybeard posted:As another more general reason most NFL teams look more or less close to other NFL teams. The college game has much greater variation in offensive systems, from a Mike Leach air raid to Chip Kelly at Oregon to the flexbone option offenses and lots of others. A lot of the innovation you see incorporated into NFL offenses comes from someone having success doing that at the college level. The only college game I've watched, start to finish was sort of like that. A lot of risk-taking and neat plays that I thought, "Hell that would never work in the CFL, let alone the NFL!" It was very fun to watch though. It was a few years ago, Boise State won the Fiesta Bowl in some crazy last minute plays and a two-point conversion. Edit: Found it!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aArfq0KWs24 Stephen fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Sep 13, 2012 |
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Sep 13, 2012 21:43
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Stephen posted:The way you describe it makes me a bit jealous that I didn't get to be a part of an American college. =( If you have a chance, Stephen Fry's road-trip psuedo-documentary where he visits each American state features a segment where he goes to a college football game that I think does a good job of showing you how emotionally involved and intense the experience can be. 50-80k people in a stadium, all who attend or attended or are children hoping to attend the school watching their own fellow classmates or future alumni brethren play a sport that is entirely American and founded from its inception to compete between universities. It is pageantry, emotion, and group culture at its finest. Geaux Tigers.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:46
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Grittybeard posted:As another more general reason most NFL teams look more or less close to other NFL teams. The college game has much greater variation in offensive systems, from a Mike Leach air raid to Chip Kelly at Oregon to the flexbone option offenses and lots of others. A lot of the innovation you see incorporated into NFL offenses comes from someone having success doing that at the college level. I think this is a big part of it. I got into college football before I got into the NFL for these reasons (the NFL seemed boring to me at first). College football is pretty unpredictable in a lot of ways. Sure there are powerhouses, but there are always surprises. See also why people watch March Madness that don't watch the NBA. Edit: For instance, I went to Virginia Tech where "Beamerball" is a thing. You don't see nearly as many (well, usually) blocked kicks/FGs/etc. in the NFL. I wouldn't be surprised if it's also partially due to the perceived amateurism of college ball .
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Sep 13, 2012 21:50
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quote:What is the fascination with college football in America? I can understand if you live in an area not easily accessible to an NFL team Let's just pause for a moment and think about exactly what this implies. The USA is a hideously loving gigantic country with a gargantuan number of people living in it; there's 280-odd towns and cities with a population of more than 100,000 people (in Canada, there are about 50 such places). There's only 32 NFL teams and their catchment areas go nowhere near thousands of square miles of places and people. Then you can start thinking about historical reasons and how college football is the original form of the sport; but you'll never quite get it until you take into account how much of America there is and how little pro football there used to be for long enough to get traditions firmly entrenched.
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Sep 13, 2012 21:50
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College football is just so much more fun to watch. Unless you're Savannah.
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Sep 13, 2012 22:07
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Stephen posted:The only college game I've watched, start to finish was sort of like that. A lot of risk-taking and neat plays that I thought, "Hell that would never work in the CFL, let alone the NFL!" It was very fun to watch though. It was a few years ago, Boise State won the Fiesta Bowl in some crazy last minute plays and a two-point conversion. I think there are more than a few people in TFF that would suggest your lone college football viewing experience was the best, most exciting college football game ever played. Besides (or because of) the loyalty, another difference the college game has over the NFL is the rivalries and the underdog factor. You can't spend 4 years studying and then graduate from The Houston Texans, but you can graduate from U of Texas, and that changes your life. The biggest upsets in college games are magnitudes greater than the NFL because of the disparity of talent and even some of the recruiting and scholarship rules themselves. At the end of the day, NFL players are all professionals who dominated in college. Take that talent spread out over hundreds and hundreds of teams, and condense it into 32 teams, and the worst team beating the best team is sometimes surprising but rarely shocking. "Any given Sunday"
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Sep 13, 2012 22:11
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College football is also a source of hilarity. There is a big big difference between the haves and the have nots even among FBS teams (the highest level of college football), and you haven't lived until you've seen a running back from a power conference just level some unfortunate one star cornerback.
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Sep 13, 2012 22:15
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There is a much greater variety of different cultures in college football than in the NFL. Sure, some NFL fans dress up in weird costumes and wear face paint. But how many NFL teams have milkman cheerleaders who grab their balls in tense moments and pledge eternal servitude to a dog?
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Sep 13, 2012 22:25
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Just reading TFF threads I have to admit that college football seems a lot cooler and has a lot more culture around it than NFL. Also you have all those crazy guys in the south whose life has been college football since back when the nearest NFL teams were Dallas and Washington. That whole southern element seems to add a lot of vibrancy to the CFB world
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Sep 14, 2012 00:00
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Stephen posted:The way you describe it makes me a bit jealous that I didn't get to be a part of an American college. =( When I had too much homework for football Saturday I would just open my dorm window and know how the game was going by the 80,000 people's reaction just a few blocks away. Also on football Saturday at college you can just walk around and people are BBQ (tailgating) with beer EVERYWHERE and just cause you go to the same college they'll just chat you up and give you free food and beer. Once or twice I became drunk before I even made it to my friend's BBQ.
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Sep 14, 2012 00:43
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Uncle Jam posted:When I had too much homework for football I don't follow.
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Sep 14, 2012 01:05
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College game has not only tradition, but also pageantry to it. College is a much more emotional game with admittedly even more passionate fans as a whole. Another thing to realize is that college football is a very regionally powered game. States like Oklahoma, Alabama, Idaho, Nebraska etc. don't have an NFL teams. Sure they might root for the Cowboys or some other team but it's not personal to them like a Boise State is. The NFL's strength is besides the meteoric gap in the talent level of all players, is that it is a much more strategically complex game that is run much better. An NFL team has to worry about salary cap, roster limits, salary/contract negotiations, and business operations that a college program does not at least to the same level. Although their are fewer types of offenses and defenses they are so much more complex and in college you can get away with fun and unique styles that you realize in the NFL will get your skill position players injured and possibly killed. You also have to identify players from all of the colleges in the country to replenish talent with new blood. College does this with High Schools but the stakes are so much higher in the NFL. Finally the NFL's greatest strength is that the NCAA does not run it!
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Sep 14, 2012 01:08
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Can you review a play and then call a penalty? In the Packers game, which I only saw highlights of, the ref said "After review, there were 12 defensive players on the field." I didn't think you could do that.
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Sep 15, 2012 05:16
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Only on certain specific penalties, I believe too many men is one of a few (or maybe the only one). It's not applicable for judgement calls or in-play penalties, just pre-snap stuff
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Sep 15, 2012 05:26
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I'm thinking about getting the trial for NFL Game Rewind but I noticed this line: "Upon expiration of Free Trial on September 17th, you will be billed at the discounted price of $69.99 unless you cancel in accordance with the applicable instructions." Is this their way of saying that canceling is a pain in the rear end or am I reading too far into it?
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Sep 15, 2012 05:33
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Cole posted:Can you review a play and then call a penalty? In the Packers game, which I only saw highlights of, the ref said "After review, there were 12 defensive players on the field." Much as I'd like to get on the scab for something (I bet his announcement sucked, hyuk hyuk), 12 men is specifically reviewable because it's not a judgement call; you look at the screen and count.
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Sep 15, 2012 08:21
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Trin Tragula posted:Much as I'd like to get on the scab for something (I bet his announcement sucked, hyuk hyuk), 12 men is specifically reviewable because it's not a judgement call; you look at the screen and count. Other than deadball fouls. Basically I didn't know you could review for a penalty. Cole fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Sep 15, 2012 |
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Sep 15, 2012 08:42
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What happens to all the dudes who don't make NFL teams? As I understand it teams start camp with 90 and cut down to 53 for the start of the regular season.. I know some get picked up by other teams, but that's still 37 guys per team who can't be on a roster. I'm sure a bunch of these just retire/give up on football, but surely that can't account for everyone. Do the others just spend the year training in hope of finding a spot the next year? Are there minor leagues they can play in to keep their skills up while they wait?
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Sep 15, 2012 15:42
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k3nn posted:What happens to all the dudes who don't make NFL teams? As I understand it teams start camp with 90 and cut down to 53 for the start of the regular season.. I know some get picked up by other teams, but that's still 37 guys per team who can't be on a roster. I'm sure a bunch of these just retire/give up on football, but surely that can't account for everyone. Do the others just spend the year training in hope of finding a spot the next year? Are there minor leagues they can play in to keep their skills up while they wait? Arena football and the Canadian Football League are possibilities for a lot of them
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Sep 15, 2012 16:08
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k3nn posted:What happens to all the dudes who don't make NFL teams? As I understand it teams start camp with 90 and cut down to 53 for the start of the regular season.. I know some get picked up by other teams, but that's still 37 guys per team who can't be on a roster. I'm sure a bunch of these just retire/give up on football, but surely that can't account for everyone. Do the others just spend the year training in hope of finding a spot the next year? Are there minor leagues they can play in to keep their skills up while they wait? Each team can maintain an 8-man reserve practice squad beyond the 53-man active roster. There are some semi-pro leagues in Europe that play bad football for little pay. Other than Arena football and the CFL that SA2K mentioned, the next step is to learn to be a plumber.
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Sep 15, 2012 16:16
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Spaseman posted:I'm thinking about getting the trial for NFL Game Rewind but I noticed this line: "Upon expiration of Free Trial on September 17th, you will be billed at the discounted price of $69.99 unless you cancel in accordance with the applicable instructions."
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Sep 15, 2012 16:43
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SteelAngel2000 posted:Arena football and the Canadian Football League are possibilities for a lot of them Canadian Football limits the amount of "import" players. Quarterbacks don't count towards this total, though. non-import players are: CFL posted:A player who was physically resident in Canada for an aggregate of 7 years prior to turning 15 or if he’s a Canadian Citizen, was physically resident in Canada for an aggregate period of 5 years prior to turning 18.
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Sep 15, 2012 16:50
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College has an 85 man scholarship limit, NFL has a 53-man roster plus a salary cap. What are the limitations on the amount and pay of the coaches?
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Sep 15, 2012 17:58
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OperaMouse posted:College has an 85 man scholarship limit, NFL has a 53-man roster plus a salary cap. Since coach salaries aren't part of the cap, I don't think there are any kind of limitations
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Sep 15, 2012 17:59
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I love that avatar. I think I need a new one, maybe just an injured O-lineman
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Sep 15, 2012 19:11
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