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waderockett posted:You can thank lessthanpleased for the Battle Captain: he's been agitating loudly for the class for months, saying there's no way his 4e group would ever switch to 13th Age unless the game had a martial healer. It eventually got Rob thinking about how he would handle that type of class in the game, and well, here we are. I told Neal to make his players all kick in now. Please tell me you've sent Gabe a promotional copy of everything you have, including the newly updated Kickstarter goals, so he can pimp this for the rest of the week. Battle Captain truly is a stretch in 4 days without some hard PR.
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Sep 18, 2012 00:13
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fosborb posted:Please tell me you've sent Gabe a promotional copy of everything you have, including the newly updated Kickstarter goals, so he can pimp this for the rest of the week. While KickTraq only has it trending towards $47k, just about every Kickstarter I've watched has a boost in the last two days. I think there's a decent shot at it. Which is not, of course, saying they shouldn't be doing everything they can to make more people see the project.
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Sep 18, 2012 00:39
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Bug you say? Ive got bugs. First off. Silverclawshift campaign journal. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116836 one of the best dnd stories Ive ever read. Tl:dr - in the first campaign, binding vestiges go rogue and start inhabiting the dead. zombie apocalypse occurs. In the second campaign, the party finds mechanical bugs that can fire cantrips in a cargo ship. they grow in size over time, casting higher level spells, and the party uses them as potions at first. it soon develops that the bugs are parasitic, and can do mind control once they are inside you. a cultist does a ritual, controls all the bugs, and starts trying to conquer the world. even worse, the party finds out if the bugs can inhabit a greater demon or angel, they can open up the gates of heaven and hell to parasitic bug conquest. next up: http://www.amazon.com/Elder-Evils-Dungeons-Dragons-Rulebooks/dp/0786947330 elder evils sourcebook. its got kyuss, the god of worms, who was the basis of the age of worms campaign in dragon magazine. additionally, the book provides portents and omens as the elder evils approach, which I think is drat perfect with the idea of a flying ship slowly approaching. next up: simon r green's secret histories. http://www.amazon.com/Daemons-Forev...ecret+histories I really like how they handled demons, and I think its splendid inspiration for occultists. priests would surrender autonomy to demons for greater strength and endurance, or decadent nobles would surrender for the sensation of it. there is a fallen empire in the backstory that could jump bodies, move demons from person to person, and in general muck about. in style, I would say its similar to Tainted Scholar or Acolyte of the Skin in dnd 3.5. also good inspiration is the warhammer40,000 series - demons can possess weapons, power spells, and engage in symbiosis with their hosts. finally, my fellow gamer from irl suggested a lord of the flies inspired scene. children gone wild and feral, worshipping undead pig heads on spikes that speak with unholy wisdom and fevered eyes.
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Sep 18, 2012 01:35
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LowellDND posted:finally, my fellow gamer from irl suggested a lord of the flies inspired scene. children gone wild and feral, worshipping undead pig heads on spikes that speak with unholy wisdom and fevered eyes. The eyes of four feral children and a decapitated pig's head reflect the bonfire. The flickering light and cloud of flies give the head an eerie semblance of life. A pair of flies lands on your shoulder. One quietly, desperately buzzes "you've got to get us out of here it's creeping us out."
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Sep 18, 2012 02:04
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Maaaan, why couldn't the Necromancer and Battle Captain have been reversed as stretch goals. Oh well, I've plugged the game where I can and now I've contributed twice to the Kickstarter, I just have to hope at this point. Digging the plaintive flies, as well.
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Sep 18, 2012 02:12
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If we need a Macguffin for some plant-based dungeon that may or may not be taking place in the rotting corpse of an agricultural god, why not just let that Macguffin be the seed for a new god? I am sure ALL the Icons would have a reason to tend that particular garden. Also, why would they taunt us with things like the demonologist and battle captain  . Demonologist I am sorta eh about since that just sounds like it'll be Warlock-y and ugh Warlocks, but everyone loves Warlords!
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Sep 18, 2012 02:14
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moths posted:The eyes of four feral children and a decapitated pig's head reflect the bonfire. The flickering light and cloud of flies give the head an eerie semblance of life. A pair of flies lands on your shoulder. One quietly, desperately buzzes "you've got to get us out of here it's creeping us out." Botflies. if the party takes them, they realize they can feel them moving under their skin the next day. Which makes me think of that one disease where you start growing other organs inside your body. fingers, eyes, things like that. I love horror games, btw. Might be time for me to reread tvtropes nightmare fuel.
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Sep 18, 2012 02:14
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This might be a bit late but is there any way we can fit Dread Emperor Norton into this somehow? Might be a bit hard to work an orphanage into the dungeon though. Just went in on Legendary Bard to apologize to my 4E character for work taking over campaign time. Really hope that the Devils stretch goal gets made, also Battle Captain!
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Sep 18, 2012 02:14
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GrandpaPants posted:If we need a Macguffin for some plant-based dungeon that may or may not be taking place in the rotting corpse of an agricultural god, why not just let that Macguffin be the seed for a new god? I am sure ALL the Icons would have a reason to tend that particular garden. Im the reverse. My dnd group isnt much insnt in warlords (we did 3.5), but a well done occultist is niiiice. Also, I ran a game a long time ago where the 13 fabled artifact swords, if placed together, would reawaken the first wargod. the shards were his body when he was alive, and became swords when he died.
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Sep 18, 2012 02:16
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Uncle Khasim posted:This might be a bit late but is there any way we can fit Dread Emperor Norton into this somehow? Might be a bit hard to work an orphanage into the dungeon though. oh god yes please. norton is just adorable. edit: thinking about it, he cold be in the starting zone. the party thinks hes the bad guy and source of the plant corruption at first, but soon realize hes the nicest guy, and then has the option of being a regular appearing npc. Loel fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Sep 18, 2012 |
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Sep 18, 2012 02:16
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I was trying to think of a warlock / demonologist class that would use the monster design guidelines to build his own demons, and then give them powers from the monster entries from an appropriate level or lower. But that's really as far as I got. And I mentioned this earlier, but seriously the wood elf racial ability is so very much out-of-line with the other races'. Every turn of every combat it has a chance to give you an extra action, to a maximum of 5. (6 with a feat.) By comparison, humans get... to roll initiative twice. Don't wreck Elven Grace, but give everybody else something that good!
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Sep 18, 2012 02:27
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moths posted:I was trying to think of a warlock / demonologist class that would use the monster design guidelines to build his own demons, and then give them powers from the monster entries from an appropriate level or lower. But that's really as far as I got. thats pretty nifty. so, like a modular monster? would he able to summon them on the fly (I need a demon with tentacles now) or would it need a ritual?
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Sep 18, 2012 02:30
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If you're going to start citing disgusting bugs for the dungeon, make sure to go with the experts on disgusting. So here's what I'm getting from some of the suggestions so far - Dungeon is at its core an ancient sun-temple, tainted by the assault of a misguided plant-god in the throes of insanity. Plant god willingly dies within the temple and corrupts the entire place with undeath, and uses ancient flying temple to begin enwrapping the world, picking up chunks of land and lashing them together. Inhabitants of each place fall under the sway of the dead plant deity, and only the steadfast sunstone-golems of the ancient temple continue to try to fight back the plant menace. In the emanations and rotting corpse of the plant god, entire strange ecosystems spring up and compete in hyper-advanced lifecycles, creating ever stronger plant monsters and predators. The characters must brave the traps and garden-cultists and claim the Seed of New Life to stop the menace once and for all. Also there are Tesla trees. That's my contribution. 
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Sep 18, 2012 02:33
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I didn't really get too far with it. I was thinking that you'd design one or two up front that you had pacts with, and buy those with backgrounds. Eventually they'd get more powerful, but they'd require more attention and focus to master. You'd move points out of backgrounds into your demons to reflect your change of focus, ostracism, and weird obsessions - and eventually your whole purpose was focused on trying to control this awful demon that seemed so easy to manage not so long ago.
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Sep 18, 2012 02:39
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Uncle Khasim posted:Might be a bit hard to work an orphanage into the dungeon though. Not if the dungeon is a strange amalgam of structures and architecture held together by some pulsing plant thing a la Katamari Damacy. I'm also loving all these ideas and am super excited to see the Goon Dungeon come to life, no matter what it ends up being. I think this is going to end up being super cool and it makes me really happy to be a part of it  Overemotional Robot fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Sep 18, 2012 |
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Sep 18, 2012 02:40
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SageNytell posted:If you're going to start citing disgusting bugs for the dungeon, make sure to go with the experts on disgusting. Awesome all around. Do we want to use sanity checks or illusions/mind games? I love me some silent hill/Asian horror. Also, Id like some sort of escalation for the dungeon itself, not just individual rounds. Things getting worse as time passes, by proximity, or even both. I remember the main bad guy from Legends of the Five Rings warps the land around him so it spins in a slow circle (continental whirl pool style), and I think he messes with time traits as well.
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Sep 18, 2012 02:41
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moths posted:I didn't really get too far with it. I was thinking that you'd design one or two up front that you had pacts with, and buy those with backgrounds. Eventually they'd get more powerful, but they'd require more attention and focus to master. You'd move points out of backgrounds into your demons to reflect your change of focus, ostracism, and weird obsessions - and eventually your whole purpose was focused on trying to control this awful demon that seemed so easy to manage not so long ago. oh, I like it. very Dresden Files
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Sep 18, 2012 02:42
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Overemotional Robot posted:Not if the dungeon is a strange amalgam of structures and architecture held together by some pulsing plant thing a la Katamari Damacy. well, one thing I could think of would be left over detrius from previous ages. if other adventurers came by and died, or were marooned, you might see villages from ancient civilization, eldritch architecture, or whatever. Anyone have that post by 50 Foot Ant where he has his party go through terrain made by a corrupted earth goddess? It was good stuff. and yes, definitly
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Sep 18, 2012 02:44
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SageNytell posted:If you're going to start citing disgusting bugs for the dungeon, make sure to go with the experts on disgusting. I'm liking this a lot. Would it be too much to have a few instances in place where players could collect certain unique plants and carry them to different "biomes" to help with puzzles? Or would that kind of stuff be better left as general suggestions to the DM in the same style as most of the core 13th Age material? I still think all the backers should take an Icon and come up with a two-line reason the DM could involve them. We could all do the same with sample NPCs, traps, general neat things. That way nothing is hard-coded into the dungeon and it's basically a toolbox for the DM with a loose setting. LowellDND posted:well, one thing I could think of would be left over detrius from previous ages. if other adventurers came by and died, or were marooned, you might see villages from ancient civilization, eldritch architecture, or whatever. These are truth words right here.
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Sep 18, 2012 02:48
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The High Druid: Well other than the obvious "Its a plant mass, and therefore related to nature", She can either see it as one of two things. A. An abomination or B. A weapons to use against the Empire she oh so very much hates. The Three: While I can't really see The Red or The Black really giving too much care to this, The Blue on the other hand could most certainly see this as some sort of a opportunity to either want to learn the knowledge lost in the temple, or simply point it toward the GGW and say "Sick him boy".
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Sep 18, 2012 03:08
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Uncle Khasim posted:Just went in on Legendary Bard to apologize to my 4E character for work taking over campaign time. Really hope that the Devils stretch goal gets made, also Battle Captain! Sweet! Got a rad idea for an NPC yet, or mulling it over? If we're on track for 47k, I'll be happy, because the opportunity to use devils excites me. However, I am eyeing that "I hate that town" entry. That sounds awesome. Maybe someone will come in and trump card the whole thing with that conspicuously empty 10k tier. Just Burgs fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Sep 18, 2012 |
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Sep 18, 2012 03:49
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SageNytell posted:
So, Tesla Trees got me thinking along two lines - advanced tech and angry plants. This got me to the WoW instance Botanica http://www.wowwiki.com/Botanica , Plants vs Zombies, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plants_vs._Zombies and Expedition to the Barrier Peaks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedition_to_the_Barrier_Peaks With a life ship from ancient Ages, we could have the option of advanced tech, strange and ancient magics, and the symboisis of the two. Plants that act like animals, tech that acts like plants, animals that act like machines. All sorts of surrealness. Now that Im thinking of it, we had a post in one of the grognard threads about a life ship that was crossing deep space. It was a horror game where the few awake people were slowly eating through all of the people still in their freeze pods. Cookie if someone can find the actual post.
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Sep 18, 2012 04:23
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I don't care much for a Life Ship, doesn't really fit well with the world theme in my opinion. But how about a Flying Koru Behemoth Mother Goddess, sucking up the souls of the earth to prepare he children for... something.
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Sep 18, 2012 04:37
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Mustache Ride posted:I don't care much for a Life Ship, doesn't really fit well with the world theme in my opinion. go one step better. the ship *itself* is a corrupt parasite, except it devours planets, not humans. edit: thinking about it more, it might be interesting if the behemoth can drop parasite pods, which cause insanity and horrific mutation/corruptions in all who come by it. so the party first has to deal with local incursions, then rains of the corruption pods, then fighting the horror itself that has nested on the moon. _____ back to original post: quick sketch why the icons might be interested in the ship - Archmage - wants to send wizard investigators Crusader - wants to destroy the ship as its a demonhold Diabolist - wants to sabotage or manipulate the ship. Let someone else take it, and be corrupted by it. Dwarfking - the magitek is obviously ancient dwarven tech, and belongs with the dwarves Elf queen - can sense elves there, but dimly. I believe a previous post covered it better. Emperor - wants archaelogist types to explore it carefully Gold Wyrm - wants heroes to clear out the danger first high druid - the ship is pure wild, and belongs in his purview lichking - is fascinated by the half dead but not undead corruption orc lord - WAAAAAAUGGHHHHH priestess - beleives its a long list wing of the cathedral prince of shadows - has already been there. turned off the security systems. trololol. the three- blue wants magitek before the archamge gets it Loel fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Sep 18, 2012 |
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Sep 18, 2012 04:40
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LowellDND posted:So, Tesla Trees got me thinking along two lines - advanced tech and angry plants. This got me to the WoW instance Botanica http://www.wowwiki.com/Botanica , Plants vs Zombies, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plants_vs._Zombies and Expedition to the Barrier Peaks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedition_to_the_Barrier_Peaks With the above summery in mind, and using your ideas, I felt the need to add this to the lore. The sun temple is completely powered by solar power. The way in which it absorbs this power is from the tesla trees, which act like solar panels as well as generators. The same material is used as the "lifeblood" of the golems, who all have areas of exposed "roots" that collect solar energy. The tesla trees flow throughout the entire temple, like the wiring for a house.
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Sep 18, 2012 04:41
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animaCartographer posted:With the above summery in mind, and using your ideas, I felt the need to add this to the lore. thats nifty. think someone could do a quick run through the space thread in D&D and make it (loosely) scientific? a plant that can sail through the aether is classy, imho edit: sudden urge to bring in jules verne steampunk >> Loel fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Sep 18, 2012 |
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Sep 18, 2012 04:42
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So looking over today's posts, I've seen a lot of ideas regarding plants, undead, bugs, and lashed together bits of reality. For the record, I was the one who suggested to LowellDND that something 'Lord of the Flies' be on the table, as well as the player who picked up the first sword/shard of the war god in the game featuring those (Lifedrinker was a fuuun sword). In any case, I think the Plants vs Zombies thing could be very interesting. Funny thing though; what if the zombies WERE plants? -The sun temple was originally built as a great floating stone citadel ages ago. There are still stone golems from that age, with a solid gold sun disk embedded in each one. -The insane/corrupted harvest god that found it decided it would be better used as a haven for plant life, and filled it with such by sacrificing himself. The vines and foliage overgrew EVERYTHING stone, and just kept growing due to the connection to the purest of sunlight, straight from the gods. -By the end of that age, the plants had grown so dense that sunlight no longer could reach in; and so the first and oldest of plants began to die, and decay. Cut off from the light by their brethren, the plants gained a semblance of malice, and gave themselves to rot so that plagues of insects could spawn. Choking vines and shambling, twisted horrors of mulch and mold patrol the inner hollows. -The insects have worked hard in the ensuing decades. They have hollowed out entire passageways of wood within the citadel, some no wider than an ant, others large enough to accommodate the mindless, wagon-sized maggots that creep through their decaying progenitors. Still the plants grow though, and the maze of tunnels is ever-changing as plants cut off passages, and the bugs clear more mulch. -As the outer layers grew, so too did the weight of the citadel, and long ago, it crashed into the Empire below. It continued to sink, and eventually was cut off by earth filling in around it. It has not been seen in centuries. -Only if the main sun altar is cleared, and a golem's sun disk placed upon it, will the fire of the sun gods purge the death and plants, freeing the citadel to rise once again. When the dungeon is discovered, it has been buried for a long time. Perhaps the Archmage uncovered it by accident, or perhaps word of it spread to the High Druid. Perhaps the gods to whom the citadel was originally erected in honor of want it back, and have asked the Priestess to seek it out. Either way, when it is uncovered, the smell of mulch and decay fills the air, and the vines, which had been dead and buried for all these years, are still. That is, until the morning light hits them, and the nightmare begins anew. Thoughts?
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Sep 18, 2012 05:02
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mepstein73 posted:Thoughts? Lot of well turned phrases, there. Im intrigued by the idea that it was buried underground - are we picturing a dungeon that goes into the air and falls to the earth on a cycle, or one that comes from other worlds? Or maybe both? I remember reading one sketch (I dont remember where) where the moon was the first living dungeon, and got so large it erupted out of the earth like a soap bubble and went into orbit.
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Sep 18, 2012 05:06
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So is Awful Dungeon getting its own thread soon so we can go back to talking about why Elven Grace is better than every other racial?
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Sep 18, 2012 05:29
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I actually bought an account here to thank you guys for this thread and your advocacy for a Warlord-style class - I was arguing this for months, and I think posters here helped put them over the edge. Was anyone else here as excited about the edition of a Warlord-type class? If so, why? If no, why not?
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Sep 18, 2012 05:39
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Yeah, can we please move the Awful Dungeon discussion to its own thread? I love you guys, but seeing 14 posts in the 13A thread and then scrolling past fourteen "hilarious" ideas for a dungeon is disappointing.
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Sep 18, 2012 05:49
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Gau, that makes sense to me. I think we've all been waiting on Red_Mage to set that up, and he was waiting to hear back from Rob. However, I don't see why a new thread can't be made before Rob gets out of deadline hell. Also nothing I've written has been hilarious or "hilarious."  The warlord is super exciting because it feels to me like so much of the 4e class is tied to the grid so I'm curious how Tweet and Heinsoo translate it. Lazylord seems easy, but the class was and could be broader. Also, it was in phb1 but I'm getting the impression either Rob didn't do the Warlord last time, or he's excited to take another crack at it. Either is very interesting for an etiological view of the industry and it's traditions.
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Sep 18, 2012 14:30
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fosborb posted:The warlord is super exciting because it feels to me like so much of the 4e class is tied to the grid so I'm curious how Tweet and Heinsoo translate it. Lazylord seems easy, but the class was and could be broader. I'm informed that the 3e warlord-like class was the Marshal which in turn originated in the D&D Minatures handbook, here. I'd love to see the Battle Captain, but I'm keener on the Occulist. As I post, we are $85 away from the $42K mark and extra art - the Battle Captain looks doable, but it's quite a stretch at this rate. I do hope we make it.
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Sep 18, 2012 15:06
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One thing that I think makes it difficult for me to get my group to kick in for this as Wade suggested - and that I think contributes to how difficult it's going to be to get to Battle Captain - is that my group doesn't really think this should be a Kickstarter stretch goal. Perhaps they're entitled jerks, but for better or worse they think Battle Captain is a concept that's obviously core to tabletop RPGs now and think the option should just be included in the core book. The notion that the only dedicated healer available in 13th Age is the cleric is a nonstarter for many of them (with the bard being 1/2 a healer in their estimation). They've tasted freedom from the tyranny of "someone has to bite the bullet and play the cleric" in 4e, and there's just no way to convince them that moving away from this is anything other than regression in design. Although I've upped my pledge and have been publicizing the Kickstarter since the announcement, I've got a lot of sympathy for my group's take on this. I really hope that this ends up in the book regardless of whether the goal is reached when this Kickstarter is over - in a narrative game that lets you tell your own stories, the exclusion of this archetype seems quite bizarre given the archetype's prevalence in fantasy.
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Sep 18, 2012 15:52
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lessthanpleased posted:One thing that I think makes it difficult for me to get my group to kick in for this as Wade suggested - and that I think contributes to how difficult it's going to be to get to Battle Captain - is that my group doesn't really think this should be a Kickstarter stretch goal. Perhaps they're entitled jerks, but for better or worse they think Battle Captain is a concept that's obviously core to tabletop RPGs now and think the option should just be included in the core book. The notion that the only dedicated healer available in 13th Age is the cleric is a nonstarter for many of them (with the bard being 1/2 a healer in their estimation). They've tasted freedom from the tyranny of "someone has to bite the bullet and play the cleric" in 4e, and there's just no way to convince them that moving away from this is anything other than regression in design. I've never thought of the Battle Captain is a core class for anything - the paladin has always taken the fighter / healer role in our group, but then I'm still playing AD&D. It's very, very unlikely that a stretch goal will be included if it's not funded - they've got their work cut out as it is. Of course, the Archmage engine is under the OGL, so anyone is welcome to do whatever classes they like. Anyway - thanks very much for all your support, and this discussion becomes academic if the stretch goal is reached.
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Sep 18, 2012 15:59
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Posting here because the dungeon thread isn't up yet: We need to put Vilerat somewhere in the dungeon.
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Sep 18, 2012 16:07
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Much as I love most of the the game mechanics and the setting's potential, I have to admit I did become slightly deflated by the race and class lists in the EE. The non-Fauxlkien races are in a ghetto (and popular 'monster' races like goblins, kobolds and orcs nowhere to be seen) and the classes are all 3E core. Given the Warlord and Warlock's rise to prominence since late 3.5E I would've had equivs in main book myself. Maybe even the best class Avenger as well. A "regression in design" was pretty much my thoughts as well.
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Sep 18, 2012 16:19
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As far as I know Vilerat wasn't into tabletop RPGs, it would be meme territory and inappropriate to shoehorn him in. 13th Age definitely has some regressive elements, but without them I would have a much harder time finding players. So much of this hobby has been contaminated with lovely ideas about gaming that better ideas put people off because "they are doing it wrong." Nine alignments. Ability scores. Gnomes. Sacred cows. I'd love to see a warlord.
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Sep 18, 2012 16:34
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I can definitely see how the demand for classes like a Battle Captain, Warlock and Avenger might be a bit mystifying if you're a big fan of AD&D or retro clones of same. I started in 2e, myself. But what I found most crazy about 4e was exactly how popular some of the new classes were with players - and then when I got to play I found myself gravitating to the new archetypes as well because it turns out that these classes filled archetypes that I apparently always wanted but didn't realize I was missing from play, and the stories we told at the table were greatly enriched by their inclusion in the rules! Wade can attest how hard I've been pushing in my play test reports for 13th Age to double down and iterate on these newer archetypes for release - there's a perception among enthusiasts of 4e that D&D 5e is abandoning the cool new stuff from 4e that went over really well with fans, and I really believe that 13th Age's mix of Indy gaming and simpler mechanics could be marketed to these people as a real alternative to what WotC is doing. But the necessary first step to positioning 13th Age as a possible alternative to 5e isn't just innovative story mechanics - its committing to making these non-Gygaxian archetypes core and not apologizing for so doing.
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Sep 18, 2012 16:50
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Whatever we publish, people are going to say "my baby is missing." Some of my babies are missing. But, I'm in the more fortunate position of being able to so something about it. With my Pelgrane hat on, with the proviso that Rob and Jonathan can veto stuff, I can publish almost anything I want for the game, as long as I think there is demand and it's of interest to me and my freelancers. It's less problematic for me to publish material that doesn't involve a lot of tweaking or potential interactions (a class is a more difficult stretch, mechanically), and I'd rather involve Rob and Jonathan in those instances. So, if the Battle Captain turns out not to be an attractive stretch goal, I'm less likely to prioritise new classes in a supplement. I'm not saying never, though. On another thread, by all means feel free to tell me what you would like to see for the game.
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Sep 18, 2012 16:58
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