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Cream_Filling posted:I do agree, however, that the film could have done with more satirical elements or showed more negative consequences to Dredd's actions, though. I think Dredd differs from renegade badass police films in that in films of that ilk the protagonist is explicitly portrayed as working outside the system to their personal detriment. I haven't seen 'The Sweeney', but I'm guessing if it's about cops breaking the law to preserve the law they're running the risk of suffering the consequences of their actions, even if they're working for the common good within the context of the plot. Judge Dredd in this film is almost literally the embodiment of a brutal system of law, but is never condemned. As he says, he IS the law, and I'd much rather have seen the consequences of this explored, even a tiny bit. It's this lack of distinction that's disturbing. Speaking from a British perspective, the top news story this week is that two police officers were gunned down in Manchester. The father of one of them said: "Bring back hanging. Let policemen shoot people on sight." I think this film would appeal to people holding these kinds of views. I'm sure Garland and Travis didn't intend the film to be a pro-police power fantasy, but this film fuels these sorts of viewpoints. The whole point of Judge Dredd surely should be to outline the insane endgame of an authoritarian police state, and this film does the exact opposite. 'Dredd' may be similar in tone to the comic, but it misses the intended satirical target by a HUGE degree. Depressingly, 'Dredd' functions primarily as authoritarian pornography. Necrothatcher fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Sep 20, 2012 |
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Sep 20, 2012 23:47
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Depressingly, 'Dredd' functions primarily as authoritarian pornography. The satire in Dredd always derived from playing an insane concept absolutely straight. You're not laughing at the strip, you're laughing at the people who would look at it and think "that's what we need".
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Sep 21, 2012 00:11
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Jedit posted:The satire in Dredd always derived from playing an insane concept absolutely straight. You're not laughing at the strip, you're laughing at the people who would look at it and think "that's what we need". That's why this film doesn't work. The concept isn't insane enough. There's nothing for the character of Dredd to play the straight man off of. The only thing to laugh at here is the brutal way in which he deals with criminals, but this doesn't function as satire because the film tacitly approves of his methods.
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Sep 21, 2012 00:35
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I think Dredd differs from renegade badass police films in that in films of that ilk the protagonist is explicitly portrayed as working outside the system to their personal detriment. I haven't seen 'The Sweeney', but I'm guessing if it's about cops breaking the law to preserve the law they're running the risk of suffering the consequences of their actions, even if they're working for the common good within the context of the plot. Dunno, I disagree in that the narrative of most renegade cop films isn't a cop breaking the law to preserve the law, but rather a cop breaking the law to protect some higher ideal of justice that is not served by what is seen as a corrupt or ineffectual legal system. Rogue cop films, as typified by the Dirty Harry films, are to me a classic part of the Thatcher/Reagan-era anti-government government narrative (I am ignoring here the fact that the first Dirty Harry came out in like 1970 as a response to the controversy over the US v. Miranda case and the beginning of what we now know as the Miranda Rights). A way to help sugar and normalize the double-think required to get people to accept an anti-government political stance even though the government manages to do a lot of things for people quite successfully. The key is this idea of a rogue who is simultaneously of the government and yet heroically defying it at the same time. As distinct from past cowboys and vigilantes that were fundamentally lawless and outside the system. In other words, it individualizes the concept of government and avoids attacking trusted institutions themselves, yet manages to spread this narrative that all the failures of those government institutions are due to bureaucratic and hidebound adherence to rules while the successes are all due to these Randian supermen who know better than the rules. It's the suggestion that governments can succeed only when the brilliant yet renegade cops are allowed to do whatever they want. Just like we should let the Reagan administration and Oliver North go rogue and do whatever they want, laws and congress be damned. Judge Dredd basically took that implicit narrative and made it literal. The personal consequences implied in such films are always used to accentuate just how good the rebel hero cops are - they are putting their own careers at risk to help people or whatever. The fact that this isn't the case in Dredd actually almost implies the opposite just by its absence from the typical formula. The very essence of Judge Dredd is that he is a pro-police power fantasy. That's basically an exact description of the character. He's future dystopia Dirty Harry in a helmet and gimp suitand without all the waffling and moralizing about consequences and the law afterwards. I do agree with you that more should have been done to play up the satire angle. However, just like the saying that there's no such thing as an anti-war war movie, stupid people are going to miss the point and root for Judge Dredd anyway. I think this is almost intentional - it's poisoning the pot. When people start saying we need a "Judge Dredd" in real life, it's far more hurtful to their cause and easy to ignore than if they say that we need a "Dirty Harry," who was relatively more realistic. Despite its failure to clearly condemn or satirize the system it portrays, I also don't think it "does the opposite" of mocking the idea of a totalitarian police state. The fundamentally violent and unreal way in which the whole subject is treated arguably does little to make it more appealing to people nor does it show, to me, tacit approval beyond that implicit in having Dredd be the protagonist in the first place. If anything, the point you made about how there doesn't really seem to be any real point to the whole drug raid in the first place, shows some implied disapproval. Jedit posted:The satire in Dredd always derived from playing an insane concept absolutely straight. You're not laughing at the strip, you're laughing at the people who would look at it and think "that's what we need". Especially when the movie goes to this level of blood-and-guts in terms of visually showing just how brutal and ugly that regime really is, in practice. Dunno, I feel like just the association of ultra-violence and dirtiness with the idea already implies a tacit disapproval. The Judge system, it says, is a symptom and/or product of a sick and desperate society. But then again, I'm from the US, where basically policemen can already shoot people on sight (if they're black and no-one's watching). OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Sep 21, 2012 |
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Sep 21, 2012 00:57
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I enjoyed this film more than TDKR and Avengers put together. I'm a big fan of the Dredd strips and like some people have mentioned, I don't think the film goes far enough with the satire element. The film was basically fascist pornography but entertaining nonetheless, even if it did venture towards being obscenely violent. Some of the kiss-off one-liners were brilliant/terrible.
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Sep 21, 2012 01:12
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Got tickets for midnight showing in a few, UK goons dont lemme down!
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Sep 21, 2012 02:26
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Cream_Filling posted:
And doesn't have to deal with the standard vigilante/cop scene of the police chief chewing him out for being too extreme and not following the correct judicial process since the judge/officer/executor roles are merged.
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Sep 21, 2012 03:54
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Also he gets boots too small so he doesn't feel empathy, so uhhh?
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Sep 21, 2012 03:59
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Just got back from the Midnight showing, only about 10 people in the theater (not complaining). Great film, thoroughly enjoyed it. The ambiance and set pieces were incredibly well done, and captured a lot of what I'd have imagined living in a mega block would've been like. Thanks to all the goons who posted their opinions early. You definitely helped sell it.
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Sep 21, 2012 07:36
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Professor Clumsy posted:I think the best way to approach the fascism in Dredd is to compare it to Nick Love's The Sweeney.
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Sep 21, 2012 08:11
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Just saw DREDD and here's some background stuff that I noticed Color was a big deal in the movie, I didn't notice it until the lock-down of the building but from that point on you see a lot of hard to disregard moments with color. The medical officer wears green because he doesn't help the judges and plays it safe. Anderson (yellow hair), Kay and the computer guy (yellow shirts) have yellow because the threat to them is medium because they're protected by Dredd, their powers, their importance, or their skills. Ma-Ma has green eyes as the only color she wears, due to her safety from her army of goons until the final confrontation where she's alone in a red room. Finally, Dredd only has red on his helmet since he is the one constantly pursuing danger and he feels he's his only protection. If you don't buy into it yet how about the scene where Kay is about to execute Anderson and he dies instead, she's looking at green graffiti behind him because she's safe, he's looking at the red graffiti behind her because he's not. There were plenty of other moments of it too that are more subtle but those are the main ones that really drove that point home to me.
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Sep 21, 2012 08:32
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I guess a couple of things like Dredd arresting the beggar on sight instead of giving him another chance would have gone some way towards showing what the system is really like.
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Sep 21, 2012 09:47
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Payndz posted:After listening to a few minutes of the Outlaw audio commentary with Love and Danny Dyer where every other word out of their mouths is "fack" or "cahnt" in the most obnoxious, aggressive "I'm a fackin' 'ard Lahnden laaaaaad you fackin' cahnt" voices imaginable, I never want to watch anything he's involved with. Exactly. Nick Love would have made a Judge Dredd film that wasn't a joke. The Sweeney (and Outlaw) represent that.
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Sep 21, 2012 10:28
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Keep an eye out for the huge CHOPPER graffiti when they're going up the service elevator the first time.
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Sep 21, 2012 10:38
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Seen this twice now and absolutely loved it. I've been a Dredd fanboy for years, and while i was initially put off by the visual design changes, once i actually saw it i thought it looked incredible. Particularly the Judge uniforms, i think they really nailed the look. The only thing i really didn't like was the Lawmaster bike design, they looked way too fragile and slim. One thing i was wondering, is there any significance to the red/black leather jacket that Ma-Ma is carrying in a few scenes? It's pinned onto the weapons wall at the end as well. thought it could be a comics reference like the 'Drokk' Jacket in the beginning? Which reminds me, mildly disappointed they didn't stick to the comic book curse words, haha.
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Sep 21, 2012 17:04
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The Heckler posted:Which reminds me, mildly disappointed they didn't stick to the comic book curse words, haha. (On a sidenote, John Wagner made up a future swear word for Robo-Hunter - "snut" - that the senior management of the company publishing 2000AD banned because it sounded just as obscene as the real words it was replacing.)
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Sep 21, 2012 17:48
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Just saw it, the whole audience was laughing outside of a few people who kept looking around almost every time the audience began to roar up. Have no idea if it was because they took the movie at face value or what. Anyways, up there with Taken, Hard Boiled, and Die Hard as my favorite action movie. Smart, beautiful film that manages to give it's principal cast a great deal of humanity. Even Judge Dredd. And it does it without wallowing soap operay characterization, letting them progress fairly realistically in pretty surreal film. I do like the parallels drawn between Dredd and Mama throughout the film, as it adds a nice condemning touch to anyone who would champion his morality. Especially since Dredd seems aware of it himself, and is one of the reason he passes Anderson, in a small attempt to change I guess.
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Sep 21, 2012 21:02
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This movie was loving awesome. Minimalistic, clean, no bullshit in the script, achieving exactly what it set out to do. I had an ultra nerd tantrum last night after reading Manohla Dargis' poo poo NY times review, I'll give you the synopsis: OOH ACTION MOVIES ARE ICKY. Compare her inexcusable laziness to Morgenstern in the WSJ who may not love Dredd's genre, but recognizes the effort and brilliance that went into the film. The WSJ is mainly known for its politics/oped especially since the Murdoch buyout, but the reportage and cultural writing is never lazy, a lot more than I can say for the Times. If only Murdoch would run a WSJ-serious news network instead of loving prolefeed Fox. Anyway, about the movie, I was blown away by Urban, Thirlby, Headey, even the med tech guy, and the leader of the corrupt Judges. His dialogue with Dredd and the meatgrinder line were so awesome. The beefiness of the sound, especially the gunfire, was such a treat. I had high hopes for this since it was announced, was worried when Travis got quasi-fired from the project or whatever happened, but this has turned out to be my favorite action movie in a long time. The Raid: Redemption had better action, but Dredd's acting, setting, atmosphere, music, etc. are all better. Here's hoping hard for a sequel with the budget this team of actors, filmmakers, and Mega-City One deserve.
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Sep 21, 2012 21:30
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picosecond posted:For you guys who are more up on 2000AD stuff: Does Rogue Trooper happen in the same universe as Judge Dredd? Also I cannot recommend The Ten Seconders hard enough http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ten-Seconders
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Sep 21, 2012 21:37
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One of the few things that bugged me a bit about the film was when Dredd called for assistance (due to being shot at by hordes of armed perps in locked-down drugs den), and two Judges eventually stroll up to help and then just stand around herp-derping outside the blast doors.  So, Dredd is stuck in there, alone against a small army? Well, yeah, but the door is closed so we'll I guess we'll just have to wait here. Got any doughnuts?
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Sep 21, 2012 23:01
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Seeing this tonight, and really excited about it. What's the verdict on which is the better version to see, though? 2D or 3D? I've heard that the effect where the blood splatter flies out of the frame is more pronounced in 2D than it is in 3D. True or false?
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Sep 21, 2012 23:16
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Stoatbringer posted:One of the few things that bugged me a bit about the film was when Dredd called for assistance (due to being shot at by hordes of armed perps in locked-down drugs den), and two Judges eventually stroll up to help and then just stand around herp-derping outside the blast doors. That bugged me too at first, but if I remember rightly Dredd or somebody mentions that they can only cover about 6% of all the crimes reported in Megacity. It makes sense that they would only be able to send out a couple of Judges if everyone's busy. It made it feel a little more realistic to me. Also it was supposed to be 'just another day' so while it is a big deal to us and the people in the building, to the overstretched department it's probably not THAT big a deal??? (It's been a couple of weeks since I've seen it so correct me if I'm wrong)
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Sep 21, 2012 23:19
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Seeing this tonight, and really excited about it. What's the verdict on which is the better version to see, though? 2D or 3D? Watch it in 2-D. The effect of blood flying out of the frame happens once and it is accomplished by faking a 2.40:1 ratio in a single shot, the rest of the film is in 2.35:1.
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Sep 21, 2012 23:26
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Stoatbringer posted:One of the few things that bugged me a bit about the film was when Dredd called for assistance (due to being shot at by hordes of armed perps in locked-down drugs den), and two Judges eventually stroll up to help and then just stand around herp-derping outside the blast doors. I don't think you thought this through. Those blast doors are several feet thick and can only be opened from inside. What exactly do you expect the two Judges to do?
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Sep 21, 2012 23:28
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Professor Clumsy posted:Watch it in 2-D. The effect of blood flying out of the frame happens once and it is accomplished by faking a 2.40:1 ratio in a single shot, the rest of the film is in 2.35:1. Got it. Was it a post-converted 3D job or was this filmed in 3D? I'm guessing the former.
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Sep 21, 2012 23:30
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I think it was converted. I only saw it in 3D because my cinema wasn't showing 2D. The 3D isn't very good, and after a while your brain seems to adjust to it and you just don't notice it at all (making it completely pointless), until there's an explosion or something and they throw stuff out of the screen (at which point you notice that it's not very good 3D again). It's also a huge pain if you wear glasses - wearing the 3D specs over your own glasses and getting reflections between the two.
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Sep 21, 2012 23:35
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Got it. Was it a post-converted 3D job or was this filmed in 3D? I'm guessing the former. No, it was shot in 3D.
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Sep 21, 2012 23:47
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edit: ignore
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Sep 21, 2012 23:53
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God no, see this in 3D. The effects were designed for 3D and add to the intricacy of the film. The 3D is prevalent throughout the movie.
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Sep 21, 2012 23:54
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Oh, well okay then! I'll go see it in 2D. Thanks for saving me a few bucks, dudes! 
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Sep 21, 2012 23:55
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Oh, well okay then! I'll go see it in 2D. Thanks for saving me a few bucks, dudes! I agree with the poster above you, this would be a mistake. The 3D really helps sell the atmosphere.
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Sep 22, 2012 00:58
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Just saw this movie and it was awesome. Also I can say that the worst comic book movie this summer is batman
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Sep 22, 2012 02:11
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Just got back , easily one of my favourite films so far this year and I've gone through a bunch. Not a dull moment, I'm not even a Judge Dredd fan!
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Sep 22, 2012 02:14
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I really enjoyed the movie, it was even better than I expected. I didn't know it was going to be so brutal, near the start when the rival drug dealers were being killed I thought Mama said "skim them," then it turned out to be "skin them"... eww. The setting was well done, I liked how recognizable the world was with conventional cars being driven around and the drones were a cool touch. I also liked how some background elements were just hinted at, like how people would be put into "cubes," and how Mama had a judge's helmet in her trophy case. Some tiny nitpicks: -When Anderson kills Kaplan, it was too easy. Just "read your motives, blam!" I would have liked to see a tougher fight. -Dredd fighting the three judges was great, especially the throat crush and Dredd frantically cycling through his ammo options. But I didn't like Lex going into idiot mode after Dredd says "wait." -Kay getting killed by the exploding Lawgiver was too telegraphed (but I did love all the Lawgiver ammo options through the movie. The hot shot part was great. I was a bit bummed that I was the only person in the theater, but it was at 1:45 P.M. so that might have been why. Hope it does good this weekend.
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Sep 22, 2012 02:24
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Jedit posted:No, it was shot in 3D. Actually, according to Alex Garland in a Q&A he did on the 2000AD forums the 3D camera rig kept breaking, so quite a bit of the film was actually shot in 2D and post-converted. http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,36741.0.html
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Sep 22, 2012 02:26
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I just got back from seeing this and WOW, it's even better than I was hoping for. I'm still stewing about it but I loved the way it was shot, they really got the tone down and Karl Urban makes the perfect Judge Dredd face. I liked the 3D a lot in the parts where they emphasized it, I thought it really added to the drug effect scenes. I went to a 7:40 showing in NYC and the theater was about 80% full so I am hopeful it hits that magical $50million in its run here.
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Sep 22, 2012 03:50
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Mojo Threepwood posted:Some tiny nitpicks: Actually, I love this because it's contrasted with her dialog with Ma-Ma earlier. Anderson is also pretty pissed off at that point.
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Sep 22, 2012 03:57
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I ended up seeing it in 3D because my local theaters only had 3 showings of the 2D version all day and they ended before I got off work  Luckily, the 3D showings lasted all night.I loving loved it. What an all around badass movie. The scenery with the stark contrast between dark, gritty and grim and bright, vibrant and super saturated, the fight scenes were completely insane and very, very gory, Karl Urban and Olivia Thirlby were captivating even though Karl Urban had a mask on the entire time, there were a number of standout scenes that were unbelievably cool (Anderson loving around with the perp's head, playing crazy mind games on him, "Battle Dress" with Dredd removing the armor piercing bullet from his body and stapling himself shut, Dredd firing the incendiary grenade at the group of gang members and watching a few of them run around while burning, etc.) Aside from The Raid, probably my favorite action movie of the whole year. Which is funny, because a large part of the plot played out like The Raid's but in a post-apocalyptic setting, which I didn't mind in the least because it was loving thrilling to watch. I'll be buying this on Blu Ray the day it came out. As far as the 3D vs. 2D debate, I didn't feel the 3D added anything to the experience of the movie. Not even depth like a lot of post-convert jobs do. It pretty much only succeeded in adding another $3 to the ticket price. Go see this in 2D if you have the option. edit: Oh, and Ma-Ma was kind of hot 
Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Sep 22, 2012 |
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Sep 22, 2012 05:02
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A couple things struck me about this: 1) The protagonist was Anderson more than Dredd. First, they made a conscious choice to keep his helmet on the entire time, and her helmet off the entire time. Second, she has the emotional arc in the story, while we learn very little if anything about Judge Dredd aside from his reputation. I thought that was an interesting choice, and a good move, since he's not especially sympathetic in the first place. 2) Aside from the drugged-out Slo-Mo scenes, very little of this needed to be in 3D, even though it was obviously intended to be seen that way. But drat, those Slo-Mo scenes were pretty.
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Sep 22, 2012 05:19
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sticklefifer posted:2) Aside from the drugged-out Slo-Mo scenes, very little of this needed to be in 3D, even though it was obviously intended to be seen that way. But drat, those Slo-Mo scenes were pretty. The Slo-Mo was my favorite original FX shot for this year, was really awesome such as creative horrible death scene for the 3 poor gangsters.
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Sep 22, 2012 05:47
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