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I grew up in northeast Mississippi, the son of two staunch conservatives. I also said "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" with a straight face and identified as Libertarian. After working with hardcore conservatives and libertarians as an engineer in defense contracting, I began to realize how their entire reality was shaped by spite, greed and privilege. I started to realize why Mississippi and the South was so poor. It is sad really, because these poor people think they have it all figured out, but live miserable lives to try and get a taste of the scraps handed to them by the captains of industry, who they worship.
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Sep 29, 2012 02:53
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Jervas Dudley posted:People can and do get past that crap, but there's not much point in arguing with them. Upon reflection, I want to revise this. They probably won't change their position, but it is worth pointing out the factual errors and flaws in their arguments. Seeing arguments that I would have made refuted and mocked was a major factor in reshaping my opinions. It's easy to believe and parrot Ron Paul's arguments when he's making them to a cheering crowd. It's harder when it's some jackass on the internet's argument getting factually refuted and mocked by other jackasses. Then you notice they're making the same arguments.
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Sep 29, 2012 06:00
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My local DMV here in California is great too; nearly instant if you make an appointment, and fairly quick and painless even if you don't, unless you go during the lunch rush. People who think private enterprise should be running more things should try to get sales help at Best Buy.
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Sep 29, 2012 09:10
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I don't get how the DMV is supposed to work if it's privatized. If the whole system is taken over by one company, how is that a free market solution? There's no competition and no need to try to win over customers to maximize profit, which according to the government-is-evil people is the whole problem with the DMV in the first place. Or do they envision a world in which anyone be allowed to start a company that issues drivers licenses and administers road tests? And if so, does renewing my license at Wal-Mart mean I'm not supporting the Mom-and-Pop licensing outlets?
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Sep 29, 2012 12:21
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Leospeare posted:I don't get how the DMV is supposed to work if it's privatized. If the whole system is taken over by one company, how is that a free market solution? There's no competition and no need to try to win over customers to maximize profit, which according to the government-is-evil people is the whole problem with the DMV in the first place. Well, anyone arguing for privatization of the DMV probably doesn't care about mom and pop stores since they are clearly inferior to the genius of WalMart's force of capitalism. But I don't think anyone actually advocates for that - rather, the DMV is a stereotypically bad thing the government handles therefore all government isn't the solution...it's the problem!  also do we have a Reagan smiley? :gipper:
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Sep 29, 2012 13:07
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quote:And if so, does renewing my license at Wal-Mart mean I'm not supporting the Mom-and-Pop licensing outlets? We switched to private registries (which handle things the DMV does in the US) a while back here in Alberta, Canada. I'm not sure what the rules are, but I've never seen a registry built into another business - they've always been standalone shops. Some are part of chains, others are independently owned. Most people (including myself) seem to agree they are a lot better than the old government run ones, mostly because they're far more numerous and distributed. I'm not trying to make a larger point - I'm very much in favor of, say, universal health care - I'm just identifying a minefield that you might not want to wander into. As it turns out, there's good examples of privatizing things like the DMV and having it turn out well. There's varying costs and benefits to private and publicly run services, and not every service is going to have the same answer. By comparison, the privatization of telephone services (also within my memory here) was much more of a wash - and, again, I'd hate to have the crazy quilt healthcare system Americans deal with.
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Sep 29, 2012 20:26
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Leospeare posted:I don't get how the DMV is supposed to work if it's privatized. If the whole system is taken over by one company, how is that a free market solution? There's no competition and no need to try to win over customers to maximize profit, which according to the government-is-evil people is the whole problem with the DMV in the first place. All this comes with the assumption that government is inherently inefficient and that companies and super-efficient. Capitalism provide the best product possible for the least price. Problem is that this is often not true, and especially bad when companies are providing an important service where they know the can rape consumers. Companies often are in a race to the bottom in terms of quality. Profit is the main concern, not the consumer. Not to say that there are certain fields that could possible benefit from privatization. It's just that people need to be careful not to be knee-jerk capitalists.
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Sep 29, 2012 20:33
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The main problem I see with the DMV in the US is that it suffers from the Starve the Beast mentality. The ones that don't run well are ones that are underfunded because services get cut. The result is they end up with 20 people waiting on three DMV employees, one of which is out doing driving tests. And then they have to cut back the hours they're open, forcing more people to show up either first thing in the morning or during lunch breaks, further exacerbating the problem. You end up with huge rush periods, followed by hours of very few people. Its almost like going to a Chick-fil-a during lunch rush hour and complaining that they don't know what they're doing because the line is out the door. But I guess that's different because private enterprises are
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Sep 29, 2012 21:35
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Leospeare posted:I don't get how the DMV is supposed to work if it's privatized. If the whole system is taken over by one company, how is that a free market solution? There's no competition and no need to try to win over customers to maximize profit, which according to the government-is-evil people is the whole problem with the DMV in the first place. This is pretty accurate actually. I used to believe this (I was sort of a libertarian up until college, though Ron Paul wasn't a household name yet so I didn't have a name to attach to it) and I think its pretty common among libertarians: Basically, if a major corporation becomes large, they did so because they offered a good service at a reasonable price. If the service ever declines, with hard work and gumption a plucky mom and pop store could rise up. If their service is superior, they will get more customers. You could write an encyclopedia on why these ideas are wrong but many libertarians hold them to be a universal truth. It's a Just-World Fallacy in action, people succeed because they tried hard and have talent, and fail because they just didn't try hard enough.
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Sep 30, 2012 03:59
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Leospeare posted:I don't get how the DMV is supposed to work if it's privatized. If the whole system is taken over by one company, how is that a free market solution? There's no competition and no need to try to win over customers to maximize profit, which according to the government-is-evil people is the whole problem with the DMV in the first place. If DMVs are privatized, then what's to stop the new DMV-MartTM from handing out licenses to anyone that pays them enough money? "Oh, you don't have eyes? That's okay. Surely you'll echolocate the other cars on the road! That'll be $25.00, please!"
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Sep 30, 2012 04:38
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Mom decided to share more from Crazy Uncle. I screenshotted my email and partially cut off the C.S. Lewis quote while getting rid of personal data. I love the photograph screenshots of Fox News. Oh hell, all of it's a great big wheel o' amusement.
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Sep 30, 2012 06:03
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RC and Moon Pie posted:Mom decided to share more from Crazy Uncle. I screenshotted my email and partially cut off the C.S. Lewis quote while getting rid of personal data. I love the chart that stops in 2008 and is still Obama's fault.
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Sep 30, 2012 08:54
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RC and Moon Pie posted:Mom decided to share more from Crazy Uncle. I screenshotted my email and partially cut off the C.S. Lewis quote while getting rid of personal data. The worst thing is a lot of these are true but also dishonest as gently caress blaming it all on Obama. They always compare the current economy to the one at the start of 2008. To really see the job Obama has done, they should compare the current economy to half-way through 2009, when Obama really had a chance to implement policies. But they won't because things have improved (slowly, but they have). It's why "are you better off now than four years ago?" is such a brilliant yet devious question to ask.
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Sep 30, 2012 09:02
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^^^ My favorite is the one about private sector experienced cabinet appointees. Like...what the gently caress how is that relevant at all?constantIllusion posted:If DMVs are privatized, then what's to stop the new DMV-MartTM from handing out licenses to anyone that pays them enough money? "Oh, you don't have eyes? That's okay. Surely you'll echolocate the other cars on the road! That'll be $25.00, please!" People will stop supporting a company that engages in unsafe practices, this is historically proven fact you idiot. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Sep 30, 2012 |
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Sep 30, 2012 13:33
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Incorrect Username posted:The worst thing is a lot of these are true but also dishonest as gently caress blaming it all on Obama. They always compare the current economy to the one at the start of 2008. To really see the job Obama has done, they should compare the current economy to half-way through 2009, when Obama really had a chance to implement policies. But they won't because things have improved (slowly, but they have). The other parts that bothered me were: 1) Comparing Obama's four year average to Bush's 8 year average, which nicely balances out the enormous crash right at the end of Bush's presidency but which had already affected the beginning of Obama's four years 2) Comparing the average of Obama's four years mired in the biggest recession since WWII to the averages of Bush and Clinton, one of whom helped create an economic boom and the other of whom rode it into the ground 3) Incredibly disingenuous stuff that just completely ignores the fact that the US was hit by an enormous recession just before Obama came into office. What's that? Unemployment is higher in a recession? Please, tell me more! Food stamps increase when people lose jobs and can't afford food? Holy poo poo, you're a genius! 4) "U.S. sovereign debt downgrade: first in American history"... because the Republicans engaged in dangerous brinksmanship that meant Standard & Poor's had to cite political volatility in their reason for downgrading If you want an example of the cognitive dissonance these people operate under, look at #4 there and see how when a Republican Congress does something and it's bad, then it's Obama's fault. But when a Democratic president does something good (Clinton's surplus budgets) they reframe the question to be about the Speaker of the House rather than the president, so that it looks like the Republican Congress was responsible for it instead of the president.
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Sep 30, 2012 15:29
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RagnarokAngel posted:People will stop supporting a company that engages in unsafe practices, this is historically proven fact you idiot. 
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Sep 30, 2012 15:49
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RagnarokAngel posted:
Wait, are you saying that if the DMV gives dangerous drivers licences then the public will stop using their services and not get drivers licences themselves? You should call people idiots while spewing nonsense. The whole point is that the Gov't provides services in a manner that is not the same as the private sector. DMV is a good example of how a for profit attitude would mess things up.
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Sep 30, 2012 15:56
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RagnarokAngel posted:^^^ My favorite is the one about private sector experienced cabinet appointees. Like...what the gently caress how is that relevant at all? Union. loving. Carbide. Deathtoll: 4000+ Injuries:40 000+ 2009 revenue: 7 billion I'm convinced!
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Sep 30, 2012 16:49
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I was kidding. You'll see I argued against privatization in the post right before that one.
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Sep 30, 2012 18:22
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RagnarokAngel posted:I was kidding. You'll see I argued against privatization in the post right before that one.  My latest frustration is people disrespecting the office of the President. Normally it wouldn't bother me too much, but these were the exact same people getting up in arms for people calling Bush stupid and ignorant.
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Sep 30, 2012 20:10
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 Stop with the class warfare liberals
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Sep 30, 2012 20:39
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Amused to Death posted:
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Sep 30, 2012 20:43
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Amused to Death posted:
Well, without a social safety net a large swath of the poor people may die of starvation, lacking medical care, crime, exposure, etc. So in that instance, maybe Romney does want fewer poor people. By letting them die in the gutters. 
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Sep 30, 2012 20:52
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Mo_Steel posted:Well, without a social safety net a large swath of the poor people may die of starvation, lacking medical care, crime, exposure, etc. So in that instance, maybe Romney does want fewer poor people. By letting them die in the gutters. Romney has a modest proposal for dealing with the poor, entitled 47% in the country. Coincidentally do you fancy some veal?
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Sep 30, 2012 21:00
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DarkHorse posted:I knew what you were saying at least! Exactly! One of my friends' husband is a military fanatic. He's never served, and doesn't know anyone who has. When Bush was running for his second term, they voted for him because, "He's our Commander and Chief, and we must follow his orders."  I've thought about using that quote on my "Nobama" friends. But I don't want to sound like an idiot.
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Oct 1, 2012 00:55
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Reasons NOT to vote for Obama! First President to apply for college aid as a foreign student, then deny he was a foreigner. First President to have a social security number from a state he has never lived in. First President to preside over a cut to the credit-rating of the United States. First President to violate the War Powers Act. First President to be held in contempt of court for illegally obstructing oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico. First President to defy a Federal Judge’s court order to cease implementing the Health Care Reform Law. First President to require all Americans to purchase a product from a third party, a violation of the U.S. Constitution. First President to spend a trillion dollars on ‘shovel-ready’ jobs when there was no such thing as ‘shovel-ready’ jobs. First President to recommend changing our National Anthem as it portrays and promotes violence and is warlike in its theme. First President to cancel the National Day of Prayer Breakfast and activities. First President to initiate a Cash for Clunkers Program to clean up exhaust that adds to global warming, then extended it because it was so popular — wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars. First President to abrogate bankruptcy law to turn over control of companies to his union supporters. First President to bypass Congress and implement the Dream Act through executive fiat. First President to order a secret amnesty program that stopped the deportation of illegal immigrants across the U.S., including those with criminal convictions. First President to demand a company hand over $20 billion to one of his political appointees. First President to terminate America’s ability to put a man in space. First President to have a law signed by an auto-pen without being present. First President to arbitrarily declare an existing law unconstitutional and refuse to enforce it. First President to threaten insurance companies if they publicly spoke out on the reasons for their rate increases. First President to tell a major manufacturing company which state they are allowed to locate a factory in. First President to file lawsuits against the states he swore an oath to protect (AZ, WI, OH, IN). First President to withdraw an existing coal permit that had been properly issued years ago. First President to fire an inspector general of Americorps for catching one of his friends in a corruption case. First President to appoint 45 czars to replace elected officials in his office. First President to golf 73 separate times in his first two and a half years in office, 90 to date. First President to pledge complete transparency while campaigning, then hide his medical, educational,and travel records. First President to win a Nobel Peace Prize for doing NOTHING to earn it. First President to go on multiple global ‘apology tours’. First President to go on 17 lavish vacations, including date nights and Wednesday evening White House parties for his friends; paid for by the taxpayer. First President to have 22 personal servants (taxpayer funded) for his wife. First President to keep a dog trainer on retainer for $102,000 a year at taxpayer expense. First President to repeat the Holy Qur’an and tells us that the early morning Islamic call to worship is the most beautiful sound on earth. Now it is up to us Freedom-loving Americans to see to it that he is voted out after his FIRST term. May God bless America again. Stay safe, and be aware of your surroundings. I do not even know where to begin with this list. The apology tour, the golfing, changing the anthem or date nights.
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Oct 1, 2012 12:53
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Oh friend. You don't even know... That was just the first draft of that. It kept getting added to and added to.
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Oct 1, 2012 13:00
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I've long since purged my news feed of other peoples' mind-diarrhea, but I do choose to keep one person on because otherwise my news feed would be full of bland, rational posting. Here's something from last week: In case you didn't knowthug = friend of the family
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Oct 1, 2012 13:14
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I don't think that person knows the meanings of the words "abrogate," "bankruptcy," or "law."clownpenis posted:
Does that include all union members?
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Oct 1, 2012 13:29
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XyloJW posted:Oh friend. You don't even know... That was just the first draft of that. It kept getting added to and added to. I can't even tell if this one is real or a parody and I read the parody thread.
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Oct 1, 2012 15:39
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What the he'll is the "Cop killing weather underground"
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Oct 1, 2012 15:42
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Reasons NOT to vote for Obama!
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Oct 1, 2012 16:11
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:While all of this is false and stupid, the bolded part cracks me up. The Supreme Court literally said it didn't. Its insane how twisted this all is.
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Oct 1, 2012 16:14
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Bombadilillo posted:What the he'll is the "Cop killing weather underground" he'll? 1960s radical group BILL AYERS BILL AYERS BILL AYERS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground This guilt-by-association crap works great...once you convert any group or person into a synonym for BADEVILDEMONTERRORIST you taint everyone who's ever spoken with them or read their newsletter.
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Oct 1, 2012 16:14
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Bombadilillo posted:The Supreme Court literally said it didn't. Its insane how twisted this all is. Ghost of Reagan Past fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Oct 1, 2012 |
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Oct 1, 2012 16:22
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Bombadilillo posted:The Supreme Court literally said it didn't. Its insane how twisted this all is. When that whole thing started last year, the Supreme Court hadn't ruled on it.
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Oct 1, 2012 17:05
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XyloJW posted:When that whole thing started last year, the Supreme Court hadn't ruled on it. Well played Sir. I forget that these emails are generally decades old with a name changed! Not this one, of course but its still pretty old.
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Oct 1, 2012 17:09
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I don't know if this is the thread for it, but I'm anticipating (read: dreading) forwards and/or macros about Hugo Chavez endorsing Obama.
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Oct 1, 2012 17:31
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XyloJW posted:When that whole thing started last year, the Supreme Court hadn't ruled on it. We've been doing mandates for a long time.
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Oct 1, 2012 19:04
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My brother just posted this on fb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NfLUCBZ1is Free enterprise is on the ropes, folks, we gotta turn this around.
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Oct 2, 2012 01:58
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