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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:What model cooler is that cube one? They carry it in stock in the Sporting Goods department at my local Wal-Mart, so you should be able to go over and pick it up.
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Oct 2, 2012 05:38
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I need to extract brew some basic lager for a Halloween party...and I didn't realize my Cooper's European Lager recommends 12 weeks to bottle condition! Can anyone recommend an extract brew that will make a drinkable lager by the end of the month? (My keggles and whatnot aren't complete, the guy who was cutting & welding them has gone AWOL so I'm still on extracts. I'm also doing an extract cider for the party, but that only takes a week or so to condition, so that's second priority.)
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Oct 2, 2012 10:42
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krushgroove posted:I need to extract brew some basic lager for a Halloween party...and I didn't realize my Cooper's European Lager recommends 12 weeks to bottle condition! Can anyone recommend an extract brew that will make a drinkable lager by the end of the month? Lagers whole schtick is low and slow. You can use whatever extract you were thinking and get a clean American ale yeast fermented around 60f to make a close enough version. California common yeast is made for this sort of thing, otherwise chico is nearly as clean.
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Oct 2, 2012 12:50
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G64I1A/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00 is massive and on sale. I got one to convert into a mash tun so I can stop doing BIAB, may pick up another to sit buckets in in the basement with towels + fan rather than the current giant tubs I have to lug in from the garage.
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Oct 2, 2012 15:50
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Got this in a PM but got permission to post it here since it's on-topic:Whodat Smith-Jones posted:I saw all the all grain equipment you got from Northern Brewer recently. I'm looking to make the jump to all grain soon and was wondering how all the stuff you got is working out (I haven't made it all the way to the last page of the thread in case you've said anything in there). I'd like to spend under $500 or so on everything I need, which would be a bigger pot, a turkey fryer and a mash tun. I know I could get a good 10 gallon pot for less than $100, but I'm interested in something with a spout and that could come with a false bottom pre-installed since I'm not terribly handy and don't think the time and danger of loving something up is worth it. And I guess a thermometer would be nice, but I can't think of how useful it'd be outside of using the kettle as some sort of makeshift hot liquor tank. It's working out great! I was actually doing fine on all-grain with just the converted 5-gallon cooler for a mash tun and doing my wort boils and hot water on the stove in two pots instead of one (splitting the wort boil in half). We got the banjo burner and the 10-gallon stock pot to make things easier, but neither is strictly necessary. We are not mashing in the pot, we're still mashing in the cooler. The pot is being used for wort boils and heating water. The pot we got is very nice (extremely well made) but if we could do it over again we wouldn't get the valve mounted in it and might get the thermometer mounted about half as high as it is now, probably wouldn't get the thermometer at all. The valve is nice in theory but in practice it clogged every time I tried to use it and we had to just dump the wort into the fermenters instead. If I'd had something safe to put a hot pot up on like a metal or unfinished wood table, I would've siphoned the wort into the fermenters instead (as pouring it across oxygenates it, which is bad; there's a time when you do want to oxygenate the wort but that's only after it's cooled off). Eventually this pot will be moved to hot-water-only duty and then the valve and the thermometer will both be extremely convenient. The built-in thermometer was very handy for anticipating the hot break (as we could see right when it hit 212F, if only it played an alarm klaxon!) and also good for watching our water temp as we heated mash and sparge water. However, this is just as easily accomplished with the thermometer I already had ($10 "Big Daddy" brand long-stem that clips onto the side of the pot from my local homebrew shop), so v  v. I assume that down the road I'll find a good way to make the valve work with the wort (going to test a Bazooka screen with it).Buy that specific banjo burner, it saves an enormous amount of time. You can't get them at Lowes or similar hardware stores (you'll be lucky to find one with 1/3 the BTU output). You can find it on Amazon (Beer4theBeerGod said he found his for cheaper than Northern Brewer on Amazon). The stock pot is Polarware, you might be able to find that on Amazon as well. It is quite usable without the extras, and skipping those will save you at least $100. The burner cooked all the plastic off the bottom of the valve handle and that made me sad, so if you do have a valve, thermometer, or anything else you value sticking off the side of the pot, make a heat deflecting shield for the side of the burner where that part will be. You could probably make something pretty cheap and dirty with an old steel pie plate and some metal zipties. I built my own mash tun with a 5-gallon cooler and false bottom hardware from Lowes and Northern Brewer's $25 bronze ball valve kit (and help from this thread  ). I thought the kit was good value for the money because if I'd gotten all the parts off the shelf I would've saved about $10 to $15 but it would've taken me an hour and a half to accumulate. That said, you certainly can find it all in the hardware store. If I could do it over again I'd probably get a bigger cooler, 8 gallons would be ideal. Mine's fine for normal beers but is probably not going to handle real big grain bills (like Imperial styles and Barleywines); Northern Brewer says that ~12 pounds of grain will probably be the max for a 5-gallon cooler.You can buy a tube filter for a false bottom, I recommend it over the disc-style ones. I used a metal mesh tube for my false bottom that came from a shielded water line. It was easy to build and works extremely well. Tubes are not vulnerable to some of the things that can go wrong with the disc-style screens, plus it cost me roughly $10 in materials. I'll post a photo of it when I get home, but it's probably more work than it's worth given that you can get a Bazooka-style tube screen for $18. I was on a real tight budget at the time. We got the screw-type cooler lid instead of the friction-fit-type, because I figured what the hell, given the option I might as well get the style that will survive a tip-over while full of Finally, invest in a couple of spray bottles (you'll need more than one), for knocking down the hot break foam. It happens fast and violently in a big pot over a big burner, and just turning the heat down doesn't help (because by then it's way too late). We learned this the hard way; when I was running a split boil in two pots on the stove, all I needed was a stirring paddle and quick heat control, but this was a completely different (rabid) animal. After the first big mess, we winged it with a colander and a water pitcher but that was a weak solution. A big-headed watering can, goofy as it sounds, would also be a pretty good answer. Tl; dr breakdown of what you need for all-grain Required: Mash Tun: 5-gallon cylindrical cooler: $21.99 at Lowes or $46.99+shipping from NB (which is ridiculous but I assume it's because they're just offered for people who don't care about the price and want it all in one box, since while it might be hard to find all the parts of the valve kit, how hard is it to track down a cooler?  )bronze ball valve kit: $26.99 at NB, cheaper if you get it piecemeal at a hardware store. There's a long-running argument about stainless steel ball valves ($40-something at NB) vs. bronze but again, I was on a tight budget tube screen: $17.99 from NB, or $10 in parts from the hardware store and elbow grease for an arguably better-shaped one Optional: Polarware 10 gallon stock pot (base without addons): $127.99 at NB, maybe cheaper elsewhere Bayou Classic 210,000 BTU banjo burner: $98.99 at NB, maybe cheaper elsewhere spray bottles or watering can: ~$5 maybe? At Lowes or wherever So that's looking like roughly $300 total (before shipping), and that's about it if you've already got all the other stuff that you've needed for extract brewing (like a thermometer, hydrometer, cleaning supplies, fermentation vessels etc). All you absolutely need to move to all-grain will be a mash tun, which is only about $70 total, and a way to boil your wort, which you may already have if you're doing extract already. Keep in mind that your extract wort boils have probably been smaller volume (like 2 to 4 gallons) than all-grain ones will be (5 or 6+ gallons), and the faster you can get to the hot break, the better. If you've been working out of a single 5-gallon stock pot, it's not going to work for all-grain.
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Oct 2, 2012 16:39
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On the subject of carbing in the bottle: Should I leave the bottles in the house that is usually kept around 69-70 degrees (cooler than that probably because I keep it on the floor) or should I keep them in the garage where it is usually running 80-85?
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Oct 2, 2012 16:47
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zedprime posted:Lagers whole schtick is low and slow. You can use whatever extract you were thinking and get a clean American ale yeast fermented around 60f to make a close enough version. California common yeast is made for this sort of thing, otherwise chico is nearly as clean. I appreciate the answer but am trying to fully understand what you mean - you're saying I can change the yeast that is used and try fermenting it around 60* F to get a quick(ish) ferment? These are the sorts of extract kits I'm looking at (actually these are just 'refills' since I already have the gear): http://home-brew-online.myshopify.com/collections/beer-making/lager and http://www.dorsethomebrew.co.uk/shop/399-lager-kits There's no info on the web pages about how long the beer is supposed to ferment or bottle condition, you only get that info when you get the cans of extract.
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Oct 2, 2012 16:52
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LaserWash posted:On the subject of carbing in the bottle: Quoting this because I am curious as well.
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Oct 2, 2012 17:31
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Splizwarf posted:Buy that specific banjo burner, it saves an enormous amount of time. You can't get them at Lowes or similar hardware stores (you'll be lucky to find one with 1/3 the BTU output). You can find it on Amazon (Beer4theBeerGod said he found his for cheaper than Northern Brewer on Amazon). I'd like to echo that I bought that banjo burner after my first brew day and reading your post the next day. It was taking me 2-3 hours to boil 5 gallons on my stovetop, this was the best extra purchase I've made so far. Used it for the first time this weekend and holy poo poo was it awesome, cut my time in half per batch. The cheapest place I was able to find it was actually on Overstock.com, $91.99 with $3 shipping! Shipped out the next day via UPS Ground.
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Oct 2, 2012 17:34
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hellfaucet posted:I'd like to echo that I bought that banjo burner after my first brew day and reading your post the next day. It was taking me 2-3 hours to boil 5 gallons on my stovetop, this was the best extra purchase I've made so far. Used it for the first time this weekend and holy poo poo was it awesome, cut my time in half per batch. $72 on Amazon with Prime shipping available. http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-KAB4-Pressure-Cooker/dp/B0009JXYQY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1341851347&sr=8-2&keywords=banjo+burner
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Oct 2, 2012 17:41
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Midorka posted:Quoting this because I am curious as well. Probably debatable but I'd prefer 70. That's plenty warm enough to encourage the yeast to carbonate in a reasonable amount of time. There's not enough activity going on that you have to worry about producing off flavors, but at 85 you're really accelerating staling and oxidation. Which may not be a problem if you don't plan on the beer surviving undrunk for more than a month or two
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Oct 2, 2012 17:43
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zerox147o posted:$72 on Amazon with Prime shipping available. Yeah, wish I didn't miss this one. Prime shipping rocks.
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Oct 2, 2012 17:47
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krushgroove posted:I appreciate the answer but am trying to fully understand what you mean - you're saying I can change the yeast that is used and try fermenting it around 60* F to get a quick(ish) ferment? To make a literal lager with proper lager yeast you do a weekish long primary and then condition at cold temp for a long while. That's what a kit will be expecting you to do. If you can get a clean fermenting American strain of ale yeast and use whatever base beer came in the lager kit you can make something not entirely unlike a lager by Halloween. Although looking at a calendar it would still be really close to do the standard 2 week primary 2 week carbonation that is rule of thumb for ale yeast. E. Switching things out in a kit or recipe or whatever is a really easy way to experiment with a perfect chance of not entirely screwing stuff up. Or as my friend has recently begun saying "the world is like legos!!!" zedprime fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 2, 2012 17:52
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I'm thinking about picking up a submersible water pump to hook my wort chiller up to, as I'm not liking how much water I'm using to cool the wort. However I don't know anything about pumps at all, would something like this work well? It's certainly much cheaper than most homebrewing chiller pumps cost but I don't really know how to compare their performance.
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Oct 2, 2012 19:13
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JawKnee posted:I'm thinking about picking up a submersible water pump to hook my wort chiller up to, as I'm not liking how much water I'm using to cool the wort. It claims to be safe for fish. People who drink lots of beer are said to drink like a fish. Ergo...
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Oct 2, 2012 19:16
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Docjowles posted:Probably debatable but I'd prefer 70. That's plenty warm enough to encourage the yeast to carbonate in a reasonable amount of time. There's not enough activity going on that you have to worry about producing off flavors, but at 85 you're really accelerating staling and oxidation. Which may not be a problem if you don't plan on the beer surviving undrunk for more than a month or two Thanks. Next question is how do you guys feel about this? It seems like a great option for a cheap brew kettle+burner and amazon reviews claim they use it fine for brewing. I know about using aluminum for brewing (need an oxidation layer), but other than that are there any concerns with this?
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Oct 2, 2012 19:31
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Midorka posted:Thanks. I used a very similar setup for several batches; I still use the burner, but left the pot outside for quite a while and it got a pinhole leak. 7.5 gallons doesn't give you a ton of room for all grain brewing, but as long as you use FermCap and watch for boil overs with a spray bottle, it's a good system on a budget.
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Oct 2, 2012 19:42
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Midorka posted:Next question is how do you guys feel about this? It seems like a great option for a cheap brew kettle+burner and amazon reviews claim they use it fine for brewing. I know about using aluminum for brewing (need an oxidation layer), but other than that are there any concerns with this? Scorching would be my prime worry. It's going to be a single jet so in addition to a pot prone to scorching in the first place, the heat will be very localized.
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Oct 2, 2012 19:44
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Splizwarf posted:Buy that specific banjo burner, it saves an enormous amount of time. You can't get them at Lowes or similar hardware stores (you'll be lucky to find one with 1/3 the BTU output). You can find it on Amazon (Beer4theBeerGod said he found his for cheaper than Northern Brewer on Amazon). The stock pot is Polarware, you might be able to find that on Amazon as well. It is quite usable without the extras, and skipping those will save you at least $100 Is there really much more  involved with the 10 gallon Megapot vs. the 10.5 gallon Polar Ware economy kettle? I'm not really trying to assemble everything as cheaply as possible, so if it's truly worth it I'll spring for it. I guess maybe since it has a wider diameter that it'd be a little better for using more of hte heat produced by the banjo burner? quote:Required: I wouldn't mind swinging by Home Depot to pick up the proper tubing, but I don't want to wander around for an hour piecing together the other parts for the rest of the valve. The NB kit says it fits most cylindrical coolers, so can I assume that it'd fit a 10 gallon cooler just as well as a 5 gallon cooler? I was thinking if I'm getting a 10 gallon kettle I should probably get a 10 gallon cooler for whenever I decide to make a big beer. I guess I don't totally know what my option would be for a hot liquor tank. I have a 5 gallon stock pot, but I don't know how well that'd work since it doesn't have a ball valve. I think there might be an extra cylindrical cooler at my place, but it's probably pretty dirty inside and I don't know if it should be used. Would a PBW soak do the trick? I guess I'd still need an extra ball valve kit if I converted it. Would it make any kind of sense to do bronze for the water and stainless for the mash tun, or is that stupid? And I've seen some kind of sparging apparatus that comes with NB's mash tun/hot liquor tank kit that disperses the sparge water better. Is that worth getting or is there something you can easily throw together at home?
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Oct 2, 2012 19:52
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Get this pot, it's good and cheap: http://www.homebrewing.org/One-Weld-9-Gallon-Stainless-Steel-Pot_p_1683.html Heck, they even have 15gal pots now that are still $10 cheaper than the Megapot & $30 cheaper than the Polar Ware: http://www.homebrewing.org/1-Weld-15-gallon-SS-Brew-Pot-_p_2744.html (Shipping may or may not kill this deal, really can't say since this is my local store.)
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Oct 2, 2012 20:14
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Ha, no way I'd buy that junk pot, look at the handles. I've had the handles come off of way too many cheap pots, never again (used to be a caterer). The Megapot has 10 welds and 4 huge rivets on each handle, it's built like a tank.Whodat Smith-Jones posted:Is there really much more I asked NB and they said the economy kettle is significantly thinner. Whodat Smith-Jones posted:I wouldn't mind swinging by Home Depot to pick up the proper tubing, but I don't want to wander around for an hour piecing together the other parts for the rest of the valve. The NB kit says it fits most cylindrical coolers, so can I assume that it'd fit a 10 gallon cooler just as well as a 5 gallon cooler? I was thinking if I'm getting a 10 gallon kettle I should probably get a 10 gallon cooler for whenever I decide to make a big beer. You don't have to have a sprinkler for your hot water, it's just convenient. I just pour the pot out slowly over the mash when sparging. Your 5-gallon stock pot will be fine. If you do decide to use a sprinkler, you'll need someplace heat-safe to put the pot while sparging, because the banjo burner's not tall enough to get a cylinder cooler below it. The valve kit should fit a 10-gallon cooler just fine as far as I know.
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Oct 2, 2012 20:21
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Megapots have an aluminum core bottom and compared to many pots, a larger diameter for a given volume meaning higher boiloff rate which sounds bad but will help you out with efficiency. Of course a pot is a pot and a pot can only be so fancy but drat do I like my megapot. Not that I've ever tried anything else.
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Oct 2, 2012 20:23
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zedprime posted:Megapots have an aluminum core bottom and compared to many pots, a larger diameter for a given volume meaning higher boiloff rate which sounds bad but will help you out with efficiency. Megapots are just Polarware pots that NB sources and drills holes in. If you wanted to be extra sneaky and cheap, you could get an equivalently large aluminum or stainless steel pot and just use a stainless steel racking cane + heat resistant tubing instead of a valve. I totally agree about the boiloff. I like the fact that a higher boiloff rate means I can somewhat control the boiloff rate during the boil by adjusting the heat level from "raging boil" to "mild boil." Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 2, 2012 20:52
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So after years of making incredibly dry, incredibly disappointing hard cider, this year I'm going to follow this guy's example and bottle the cider at around 1.010 (usually ferments down to .098), let the bottles get to the right carbonation and then pasteurize all the bottles to kill off the yeast. Has anyone ever tried this before? It sounds like a risky thing to do, but I'm sick of drinking dry rear end cider and I don't want to keg or back sweeten with splenda.
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Oct 2, 2012 20:52
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RiggenBlaque posted:So after years of making incredibly dry, incredibly disappointing hard cider, this year I'm going to follow this guy's example and bottle the cider at around 1.010 (usually ferments down to .098), let the bottles get to the right carbonation and then pasteurize all the bottles to kill off the yeast. Has anyone ever tried this before? It sounds like a risky thing to do, but I'm sick of drinking dry rear end cider and I don't want to keg or back sweeten with splenda. Can't you nuke it with potassium sorbate or something to halt fermentation, rather than the extreme heat of pasteurization e: nevermind, that looks pretty simple. mewse fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 2, 2012 20:56
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I think the problem with throwing something in it like a camden tablet is that it would prevent you from being able to bottle condition. That's a viable option if you're okay with drinking flat cider, but I prefer it carbonated. Heating up glass isn't something I consider a brilliant idea, but I feel like I remember hearing that's how they pasteurize beer (or used to) - by spraying the bottles with hot water. PoopShipDestroyer fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 2, 2012 21:10
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Angry Grimace posted:Megapots are just Polarware pots that NB sources and drills holes in. If you wanted to be extra sneaky and cheap, you could get an equivalently large aluminum or stainless steel pot and just use a stainless steel racking cane + heat resistant tubing instead of a valve. Unless somethings completely changed from when I bought pots, megapots can come with or without the hole and from places other than northern brewer but if polarwares are the same thick rear end megapot with wrist destroying aluminum core bottoms then definitely get the cheap one.
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Oct 2, 2012 21:26
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Toebone posted:I used a very similar setup for several batches; I still use the burner, but left the pot outside for quite a while and it got a pinhole leak. 7.5 gallons doesn't give you a ton of room for all grain brewing, but as long as you use FermCap and watch for boil overs with a spray bottle, it's a good system on a budget. Yeah I've learned about boil-overs and how to control them by now. Thanks for the confidence vote.
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Oct 2, 2012 21:29
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Whodat Smith-Jones posted:I guess I don't totally know what my option would be for a hot liquor tank. I have a 5 gallon stock pot, but I don't know how well that'd work since it doesn't have a ball valve. I use a 5 gallon pot for my hot liquor tank, 4.5 gallons of hot water isn't very heavy or unwieldy. Just pick up your pot and dump it in. RiggenBlaque posted:Heating up glass isn't something I consider a brilliant idea, but I feel like I remember hearing that's how they pasteurize beer (or used to) - by spraying the bottles with hot water. That's one form called tunnel pasteurization where the bottles move through a tunnel of increasingly hotter water until they reach pasteurization temps, then they're sprayed with increasingly colder water until they're back to normal temp. Doing this at home In a pot or whatever I would go extremely slowly, start with room temp water and cider and take like an hour to get up to temp.
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Oct 2, 2012 21:34
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RiggenBlaque posted:So after years of making incredibly dry, incredibly disappointing hard cider, this year I'm going to follow this guy's example and bottle the cider at around 1.010 (usually ferments down to .098), let the bottles get to the right carbonation and then pasteurize all the bottles to kill off the yeast. Has anyone ever tried this before? It sounds like a risky thing to do, but I'm sick of drinking dry rear end cider and I don't want to keg or back sweeten with splenda. Have you tried using a yeast that won't go down so low? Or does it reach those ridiculously low gravities with basically any yeast you would choose?
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Oct 2, 2012 21:44
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What I don't understand about cider is why you can't throw unfermentables in from the get-go and end up with sweet cider. Is all the apple flavor consumed by the yeast as well?
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Oct 2, 2012 21:48
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Paladine_PSoT posted:It claims to be safe for fish. I meant more along the lines of is it going to be able to pump enough water through fast enough to cool the wort at comparable speeds to just hooking my immersion chiller up to my tap. It says 291 Gallons/Hour, so around 4.85 Gallons/minute compared to some of the pumps made for wort chillers which do better than twice that/minute.
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Oct 2, 2012 21:52
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Angry Grimace posted:Megapots are just Polarware pots that NB sources and drills holes in. If you wanted to be extra sneaky and cheap, The Megapot is actually an Update International SPS-## (SPS-40 for a 40qt/10gallon) which can be bought from various restaurant supply stores a fair bit cheaper.
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Oct 2, 2012 22:33
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Splizwarf posted:What I don't understand about cider is why you can't throw unfermentables in from the get-go and end up with sweet cider. Is all the apple flavor consumed by the yeast as well? I've made cider using some DME added so that it didn't come out quite so dry, so you could do something like that. Also could help to add tannin since most juice you're going to find is going to be low on it. Still, if your taste is like most commercial ciders, even "dry" ones, it's tricky to get. Depending on the yeast, it can consume a lot of the apple flavor too. It comes back with aging, but on a fresh ferment it's often pretty faded.
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Oct 2, 2012 22:57
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JawKnee posted:I meant more along the lines of is it going to be able to pump enough water through fast enough to cool the wort at comparable speeds to just hooking my immersion chiller up to my tap. I bought this one recently, and it worked really well, although I'm pretty sure it didn't move water quite as fast as just hooking my chiller up to the garden hose did.
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Oct 2, 2012 23:05
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Galler posted:The Megapot is actually an Update International SPS-## (SPS-40 for a 40qt/10gallon) which can be bought from various restaurant supply stores a fair bit cheaper. Mine has the words "Polarware" stamped on the bottom, for what its worth. Edit: Not that it's not perfectly plausible Polarware doesn't just source its pots from the same factory. That pot does look pretty much identical and is like 50% of what NB charges for it. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Oct 2, 2012 |
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Oct 2, 2012 23:19
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zedprime posted:To make a literal lager with proper lager yeast you do a weekish long primary and then condition at cold temp for a long while. That's what a kit will be expecting you to do. Thanks for the help - I'll have a look and see what kind of yeast I can find (I'm not in a club so I'd have to shop online somewhere) but if it comes down to it I'll just tell everyone to BYOB and offer my cider and wine brews to anyone who asks.
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Oct 2, 2012 23:54
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So I might be over thinking this one a bit. Is there some obvious place to fill/refill CO2 tanks? Googling "CO2 buy michigan" ain't doing much for me.
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Oct 3, 2012 00:10
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Angry Grimace posted:Mine has the words "Polarware" stamped on the bottom, for what its worth. Interesting. Polarware and Update International are different companies. NB probably shops around every time their stock gets low and buys whatever is cheapest. So sometimes they get Polarware and sometimes they get Update International and sometimes they get whatever other big manufacturers there are. I originally found out about Update International buy googling around for Megapot reviews. Someone had posted the info on the bottom of their Megapot and it was the Update International product code. Regardless I've got that pot I linked up above and it's awesome. The Polarware version is probably pretty awesome as well.  hellfaucet posted:So I might be over thinking this one a bit. Is there some obvious place to fill/refill CO2 tanks? Googling "CO2 buy michigan" ain't doing much for me. Look for a welding supply place. CO2 is CO2 is CO2. Galler fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 00:14
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Our really big beer/beverage center does it. They fill a ton of growlers though, dunno if a regular bottle shop would do it.
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Oct 3, 2012 00:26
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