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Thank you for doing what I was too lazy to Arakan. This is a problem that is acknowledged in the official Chines media. Just because it is born out by personal anecdotes doesn't mean that's all there is.
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Oct 3, 2012 06:49
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Arakan posted:You guys can keep hand waving this away as 'white man being racist People aren't saying that the Chinese populace at large probably doesn't get the best of sex education, but (rightfully) pointing out the racism of posters directly comparing Asian people to loving children! I have more to say but I'm going to wait until I get on a computer with a computer because I have a lot to say about this.
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Oct 3, 2012 07:53
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' or whatever, but the fact is a lack of sexual education in China is leading to high rates of unwanted pregnancy, abortion, STD and HIV transmission and it is a major problem.
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Man it's not racism. If you take a white kid and stick him in school 18 hours a day for five years he's going to come out hosed up. Most people are fine after they get a chance to live a bit in college, some seem to remain pretty damaged by it. The education system in Asia is all kinds of terrible.
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Oct 3, 2012 08:00
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shrike82 posted:RE the korean education system, you just have to bring up fan death to realize it's all rote memorization. I've had korean PhDs swear to me that it's a real phenomenon. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/23/really-in-a-heat-wave-an-electric-fan-can-cool-you-off/ quote:In a new study, a team of researchers based primarily in Britain sought to review evidence on the effectiveness of electric fans during heat waves that have occurred all over the world. . . . The authors of the new report pointed out that when temperatures climb past 95 degrees, having a fan pointed at you can actually contribute to heat gain, not reduce it. ----- Grand Fromage posted:Man it's not racism. If you take a white kid and stick him in school 18 hours a day for five years he's going to come out hosed up. Most people are fine after they get a chance to live a bit in college, some seem to remain pretty damaged by it. The education system in Asia is all kinds of terrible. Funny. In the United States, at least, kids are usually hosed up from not getting enough schooling- not too much. There's plenty to criticize in Asian educational systems. Your viewpoint of what we use in the West, however, is far too rose-colored. I'm sure you had plenty of fun "living a bit", but countless more get locked into alcoholism, teen pregnancy, drugs, gangs, all sorts of unpleasant poo poo that's a lot more detrimental to the quality of their life than having to do a lot of studying. Heck, looking back these days most people wish they'd spent more time studying back when they were younger- not less. Arakan posted:You guys can keep hand waving this away as 'white man being racist This is a perfectly legitimate point. The thing is, we're not doing such a good job dealing with these problems either. Every time I read a story about a naive Chinese girlfriend, I start thinking about those girls in the United States who want to know whether they can get pregnant from anal sex. If you have more directly comparative statistics they'd be welcome.
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Oct 3, 2012 08:42
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Some Guy TT posted:Heck, looking back these days most people wish they'd spent more time studying back when they were younger- not less. I don't disagree with with the idea that the UK and USA could do with more money and resources being put into education and more being expected from students. However, what we are talking about here is not the value of education itself but the manner in which that education is delivered and the effect which it has on the individual. Have a picture of some kids revising for their college entrance examinations. Yup, those are vitamin drips - now, of course, this is hilarious and was promptly stopped the moment it was discovered. But nevertheless: the school, the students and the parents all consented to this. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 08:53
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Some Guy TT posted:But, but... America Not everything has to be compared to the US. Especially since not everyone posting here is American. Every single post of yours in this thread has been some variation of "but America" and it's getting boring. Also, nobody is saying that all Asians are like children, just that college-age Chinese (and Koreans) are less mature than most western counterparts. I can't see how anyone with any experience of the two could deny that. In my experience, though, most students do a lot of maturing in the 4 years of their undergraduate degree, and emerge, if anything, more mature than western students. Daduzi fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 08:53
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Daduzi posted:Not everything has to be compared to the US. Especially since not everyone posting here is American. Every single post of yours in this thread has been some variation of "but America" and it's getting boring. I've had, what, three posts? I mean, I'm kind of flattered you remember me that well. But the reason I use the US as a baseline is because it's the largest Western country in the world and has a comparatively ignorant rural population. If we're going to get into disputes of "why is China not more Western" it's the best way of establishing that maintaining a large functioning Western-style country is a lot harder than it sounds, and even Westerners have trouble doing it. quote:Also, nobody is saying that all Asians are like children, just that college-age Chinese (and Koreans) are less mature than most western counterparts. I can't see how anyone with any experience of the two could deny that. In my experience, though, most students do a lot of maturing in the 4 years of their undergraduate degree, and emerge, if anything, more mature than western students. Having attended both an American school and a Korean school I've found the opposite to be the case. For what it's worth, I don't discuss sex outside of the classroom, and I went to a large public university in the United States and go to a smaller private institution now in Korea. I'll agree, though, that college tends to be transformative for everyone, and it's a little silly to harp on someone for starting out ignorant in some ways. I mean, they're obviously trying to improve or they wouldn't be in a college at all.
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Oct 3, 2012 09:07
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Some Guy TT posted:..."why is China not more Western" ... Amongst other things, this discussion was kicked off with the question "why does a nation which restricts its citizens' right to reproduce have crap sex education?" Now there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking that. Nobody, at any time, has trumpeted the West as a magic land of honey, money and wisdom. Let's have some perspective. Half the posters in this thread live in Asia or are Asian: the notion that people are setting out to be ignorant and racist is dumb. I for one would rather be reading more about the upcoming Party Congress. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 09:17
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Bloodnose posted:Also most people believe that Catholics aren't Christians. I assume this is a linguistic issue because of 基督教 versus 天主教. What really? I don't think that is remotely true. Yes, those terms mean Protestant and Catholic. Yes, people probably don't know the difference. Big leap to go from there to "they think Catholics aren't Christian". Also the majority (literally over 50%) of Muslims living here are actually domestic workers from Indonesia.
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Oct 3, 2012 09:53
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Oceanbound posted:What really? I don't think that is remotely true. Yes, those terms mean Protestant and Catholic. Yes, people probably don't know the difference. Big leap to go from there to "they think Catholics aren't Christian". But those mean Christian and Catholic, not Protestant and Catholic. If the evening news in the west constantly referred to "Sunni and Muslim" then we (as a general population) would conflate them in the same way. Very few people would understand one is a subset of the other.
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Oct 3, 2012 10:07
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It's not uncommon for hardcore American protestants to not consider Catholics to be Christians. The same thing existing elsewhere isn't that hard to believe.
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Oct 3, 2012 10:11
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I've met people who make that distinction in England, so it's not surprising to find that same opinion in a former colony like Hong Kong. The Church of England was never fond of papists, after all. 
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Oct 3, 2012 10:19
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Oceanbound posted:Also the majority (literally over 50%) of Muslims living here are actually domestic workers from Indonesia. Oops, that one's my bad. I, like everyone in Hong Kong, forgot about domestic workers. I don't see so many of them by the Kowloon Masjid, which I until last week lived near. I think that one is mostly Pakistani/Bangladeshi. But I think you might not be too clear on how people view Catholics. They're viewed in a similar light to Mormons. Yeah, they worship Jesus and stuff, but they're not 基督教. And that Cult of Mary (or swap in magic underwear or whatever for Mormons) stuff is just creepy.
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Oct 3, 2012 10:25
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Kassad posted:I've met people who make that distinction in England, so it's not surprising to find that same opinion in a former colony like Hong Kong. The Church of England was never fond of papists, after all. In Scotland what football team you supported was more important. I am a middle class atheist with a Protestant family, so Heart of Midlothian was my natural choice. Trust, me the politics of this are more complex than anything outside Schleswig-Holstein. While we are on this topic: is the break between the Catholic Church in China and the Church of Rome based on birth control or nationalism? I honestly have no idea, but I always assumed that it was the former since Chinese Muslims get to go on the Haj and all. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 10:28
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USDA Choice posted:But those mean Christian and Catholic, not Protestant and Catholic. If the evening news in the west constantly referred to "Sunni and Muslim" then we (as a general population) would conflate them in the same way. Very few people would understand one is a subset of the other. It's probably closer to something like how Arabs and Muslims gets conflated in America to the point where some non-negligible percentage of Americans think that Iranians are Arabs (God knows how they metabolize Muslim Indonesians or Malays or Filipinos).
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Oct 3, 2012 10:38
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Well I'm going to have to hold my hands up and offer another worthless anecdote in a thread chock full of them: I've never met anyone who would know enough about Catholicism to see them as a creepy cult or whatever. They wouldn't even know the first thing about Catholic rituals. The only thing they'd know about Catholicism would probably be that Joseph Zen was a pretty powerful Catholic dude, and maybe the fact that Donald Tsang is a really religious Catholic.
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Oct 3, 2012 10:46
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Holy crap what happened to this thread? Chinese sex education is pretty bad and families don't talk about it but the internet is rapidly changing kids' access to information. I think that about sums up the situation. The only national news I've heard recently is that it's National Day and that China built* a new** aircraft carrier.*** The Chinese people who told me about the aircraft carrier were missing a few details though. *they didn't build it **it's not new ***it has no aircraft GuestBob posted:some kids revising for their college entrance examinations. Oh man you must have the same textbook I do. Or do all the textbooks have such a basic error? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 10:53
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Arglebargle III posted:***it has no aircraft It is going to be at least three years before China can mount an effective CAP over an expeditionary fleet. Even then, this is more about metaphorical force projection that anything real. China's strategy for littoral warfare has always supposed ground based air support (Taiwan, essentially) and the aircraft carrier is clearly a blind alley - it took the CCP a very long time and is comparatively years behind their submarine force. The Western media has universally missed the fact that if China thought this was important then they would have had it years ago. Jesus, you think any Admiral in Asia doesn't know about the battle of Midway. Sometimes I wonder about journalists, I really do. Also, the relative importance of this project shows how important the whole South China Sea thing is to them (it ain't happening.) [edit] Arglebargle: what? [edit edit] Ah, It's not a misuse, its just a difference between BrE and other varieties perhaps. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 11:04
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"Revising for their college entrance exams" is a misuse of the word "revise" which is roughly analogous to "edit" but is used to mean "review" in my 10th grade English textbook. I was wondering if you were misusing this word in a joking way because you had a similar experience. It's literally presented as revise-复习 which is so wrong it hurts. Oh and I'm aware of the whole situation with China's navy, it's just that the Chinese guy who was telling me about how China built a new aircraft carrier had some serious misconceptions. He was so proud of it I didn't feel like correcting him.
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Oct 3, 2012 11:30
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Psst: Perfectly legitimate use of the word. But a Britishism. I have no idea at all how it could possibly have come into circulation in China. None.
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Oct 3, 2012 11:36
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Arglebargle III posted:"Revising for their college entrance exams" is a misuse of the word "revise" which is roughly analogous to "edit" but is used to mean "review" in my 10th grade English textbook. I was wondering if you were misusing this word in a joking way because you had a similar experience. What? Using the word "revising" to mean "go over / review in order to gain a better understanding" is both commonly used and correctly so. http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/revise?q=revising
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Oct 3, 2012 11:36
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Huh. I literally never heard it used that way in 14 years of school in America. British English is weird.
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Oct 3, 2012 11:40
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This is an annoying difference between British and American English, in American English revise means go over something and change it to be better, in British English it can mean studying for something, that's all it is.
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Oct 3, 2012 11:40
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Fall Sick and Die posted:This is an annoying difference between British and American English... Actually, it can mean either in BrE. Depends on the context.
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Oct 3, 2012 11:44
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Fall Sick and Die posted:This is an annoying difference between British and American English, in American English revise means go over something and change it to be better, in British English it can mean studying for something, that's all it is. I've definitely heard it used to mean both when I was attending university in Boston. Then again, Boston is weird.
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Oct 3, 2012 11:49
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As an aside, the naivety of some US students at UK Fresher's Weeks is a bit of a running joke. You always have a few people who had a pretty sheltered/religious upbringing or never drank any alcohol before. And yeah, I always used to "revise" for my exams in the UK.
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Oct 3, 2012 12:04
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GuestBob posted:
It's more China than Rome. The CCP is uncomfortable with Catholics reporting back to a foreign government i.e. the Holy See and the Pope. Americans used to worry about the same thing. JFK had to swear up and down that he would put the needs of the US before the Vatican and wouldn't listen to the Pope. The birth control stuff then in turn pisses off the Holy See. Hence the Vatican is one of the few 'countries' (lol) that still recognizes the RoC over the PRC.
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Oct 3, 2012 12:10
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Going way back, medieval (Catholic) kings and HRE had a similar concern - that the bishops were named by the pope, not the king (or emperor). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investiture_Controversy Eventually protestantism came to help. This is different, of course, because Catholic clergy don't actually hold much actual power in China or elsewhere today, whereas a medieval European bishop or cardinal had his own castle, garrison and serfs and thus a lot of influence on local politics.
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Oct 3, 2012 13:27
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The Chinese government deals with religion in kinda the same way it deals with online conversation. It doesn't want to put up rules telling you what you can and can't say because people would dislike that and it's technically against the law. Instead it operates as the admin choosing a moderator who will censor speech for them. The moderators don't tell you that your post on some forum was bad or wrong, they just make it disappear, and in this way they control the conversation by making sure that anything they presume the government doesn't want talked about is relegated to the absolute fringes, found only through homonym characters or coded language that would be incomprehensible to casual observers. China wants to choose the moderators of religion as well. They choose who gets to speak and know that no one is going to say anything untoward, and if they do, they can be removed at will. The Vatican is saying, "No sorry, we elect our own moderators." The joke is that China and the Vatican have pretty much come to an unspoken agreement where they nominate the exact same people for the positions, which lets them both pretend they're in control. Overall the Vatican is the one choosing candidates that China will approve however, which shows where the power is in that relationship. Allowing the Vatican to nominate their own bishops and cardinals would establish a precedent that wouldn't bode well for their attempt to monopolize the flow of information. If the Vatican can choose their own people, why can't Muslims choose their own imams according to their own rules? Why can't a bunch of other people and groups choose who speaks for their community?
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Oct 3, 2012 14:05
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The Panchen Lama affair is still the best recent example of a religion choosing its own guy and then Beijing going 'ftfy, he's gone.' Like whichever child the Tibetans chose wouldn't have been just as susceptible to patriotic education or whatever, they had to literally disappear a 6 year old. An impressively lovely thing to do.
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Oct 3, 2012 15:02
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GuestBob posted:It is going to be at least three years before China can mount an effective CAP over an expeditionary fleet. Even then, this is more about metaphorical force projection that anything real. China's strategy for littoral warfare has always supposed ground based air support (Taiwan, essentially) and the aircraft carrier is clearly a blind alley - it took the CCP a very long time and is comparatively years behind their submarine force. It's important to keep in mind that China also has to establish not only how they plan on using their carrier but also how to use it in the first place. There's only a handful of countries in the world with any real experience operating aircraft carriers and most of them aren't likely to give China any tips. Maybe Russia as it originally was a USSR ship that they got from the Ukraine(?).
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Oct 3, 2012 15:56
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Daduzi posted:Also, nobody is saying that all Asians are like children, just that college-age Chinese (and Koreans) are less mature than most western counterparts. No, actually, the problem is this: Bloodnose posted:My western classmates consistently thought of them as children. We're all university students over 20, but one of our more motherly western classmates would chastise us for mentioning any 'adult' topics like sex or drugs because the Chinese are so naive and really don't know about this kind of stuff. Fiendish_Ghoul posted:most Chinese college students I've met have seemed, on average, about 6 years younger than they really were Fine-able Offense posted:I get that, but the reaction was something you would expect from a small child. Grand Fromage posted:When I talk to a university student in Korea it's like talking to a fourteen year old. From these posts I gather 1. The posters talking about Chinese and Koreans acting like children observe them as outsiders 2. Sexual education is directly related to a person's perceived maturity So when I see stuff like GuestBob posted:Half the posters in this thread live in Asia or are Asian: the notion that people are setting out to be ignorant and racist is dumb. I have a hard time believing that. Of course people aren't setting out to be ignorant and racist, but they still end up that way as a product of their upbringing. It's certainly very possible to be racist as an outsider, even if you happen to be ethnically Asian. Unless you think Chinese people are only good for sex, sexual maturity has little to do with personal maturity. People don't magically lose time and become children. Dear god, even virgin WoW goons, the closest analogy to the 'closet study Asian' you're talking about, are called manchildren, rather than just children. The language is appalling. And then there's this jewel: Arakan posted:You guys can keep hand waving this away as 'white man being racist FTFY so you can see the classic racist fallacy you're making. Yes, there is a lack of sexual education in China. But jumping from that fact to the conclusion that Chinese adults are children is racist. I'm not saying the Chinese situation is comparable to that of blacks in the US; however, both statements link a fact to a claim of racial superiority. Unless you justify how the paper on condom use proves that the Chinese are less mature than their white counterparts, your argument is not valid. Fall Sick and Die posted:If the Vatican can choose their own people, why can't Muslims choose their own imams according to their own rules? Why can't a bunch of other people and groups choose who speaks for their community? Someone more familiar with religion in China should answer this, but my hunch is that the atheist heritage of the current government lets them play fast and loose with which religions to tolerate. If there are issues with Islam in Xinjiang that can be averted by putting in a state-approved leader, that would explain the difference in treatment. Taerkar posted:Maybe Russia as it originally was a USSR ship that they got from the Ukraine(?). What's the relation between Russia and China on arms trades? I hear one day that Russia is pissed at China for copying Su-27/30/whatever they got now, and the next that Russia is exporting new weapons to China. It seems a bit odd to me that Russia would continue supplying China with weapons it can copy. As for the carrier, from what I read it wasn't really finished, or maybe had been finished and gutted, when China bought it. Now that it's seaworthy and has stuff on the inside, I imagine the carrier to be heavily modified by the Chinese and I'm not how much the Russians can help besides generic aircraft carrier experience. I'm also not sure what China is going to use the future aircraft task force for, besides a symbol of pride (which is useful by itself). Extending air cover into the Spratleys?
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Oct 3, 2012 16:34
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They're taking issue with Chinese culture, and it's education system. You could say they're being ethnocentric, because they're judging people using the standards of their own culture as an absolute norm, but nobody is saying anything about race; when people are saying Chinese/Asian/whatever, they're talking about the culture. If people were saying that everyone with an epicanthic fold was like a child than it would be racist as gently caress, but no one is. They're complaining about culture. Yes, we're all being terribly ethnocentric, but absolute cultural relativism sucks, so who gives a drat. You're not wrong per se, and I know what you're trying to say, but your terminology is wrong.
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Oct 3, 2012 16:43
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If they are that ill informed what are the most prevalent myths regarding how pregnancy happens etc? You have the stork as a story or cultural touchpoint (or "the birds and the bees talk) here in the west. What is the equivalent in China, Korea etc. And presumably it's something rather more advanced than that when talking about older youngsters. Munin fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 16:47
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flatbus posted:Someone more familiar with religion in China should answer this, but my hunch is that the atheist heritage of the current government lets them play fast and loose with which religions to tolerate. If there are issues with Islam in Xinjiang that can be averted by putting in a state-approved leader, that would explain the difference in treatment. It's more a matter of control than that they choose to tolerate some religions and repress others. If a religion advocates parallel lines of information and loyalty it is suspect. If it doesn't then it's fine. The government doesn't care about official atheism anymore, though they probably imagine it would be easier if no one actually believed in these messy religions. The Uighur conflict in Xinjiang is primarily national rather than religious though, the Hui have many more problems with Chinese meddling with Islam as the govt does stuff like force them to accept female imams, I'm surprised they never tried that with Catholic priests actually. Actually religion has proven a surprisingly big tourist draw so now every temple is basically run like a business, and becoming a monk is a viable career move, you don't even need to actually believe in the religion! quote:What's the relation between Russia and China on arms trades? I hear one day that Russia is pissed at China for copying Su-27/30/whatever they got now, and the next that Russia is exporting new weapons to China. It seems a bit odd to me that Russia would continue supplying China with weapons it can copy. As for the carrier, from what I read it wasn't really finished, or maybe had been finished and gutted, when China bought it. Now that it's seaworthy and has stuff on the inside, I imagine the carrier to be heavily modified by the Chinese and I'm not how much the Russians can help besides generic aircraft carrier experience. The aircraft carrier was essentially a shell, it had any useful technology taken as it was under construction during the fall of the Soviet Union and from what I remember it didn't even have engines. Some casino mogul in Macao wanted to purchase it to build a floating hotel/casino, so Ukraine who inherited it after the fall sold it. Surprise surprise, once it got to China magically the guy didn't get his casino license so the only solution was to turn it into a functional aircraft carrier. Most of the tech and systems onboard are Chinese though, really it was just a shell of metal, though that was the design they've copied for the two carriers they're building domestically. Fall Sick and Die fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 16:50
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flatbus posted:What's the relation between Russia and China on arms trades? I hear one day that Russia is pissed at China for copying Su-27/30/whatever they got now, and the next that Russia is exporting new weapons to China. It seems a bit odd to me that Russia would continue supplying China with weapons it can copy. As for the carrier, from what I read it wasn't really finished, or maybe had been finished and gutted, when China bought it. Now that it's seaworthy and has stuff on the inside, I imagine the carrier to be heavily modified by the Chinese and I'm not how much the Russians can help besides generic aircraft carrier experience. Generic aircraft carrier experience is a big thing, so keep that in mind. The US has been developing, refining, and redeveloping carrier operation practices for almost as long as planes have existed (Less than 10 years after the Wright brothers were Eugene Ely's first landing/take-off and the Langley was recommissioned about a decade later)
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Oct 3, 2012 17:06
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flatbus posted:Yes, there is a lack of sexual education in China. But jumping from that fact to the conclusion that Chinese adults are children is racist. You're the one making this jump. flatbus posted:Someone more familiar with religion in China should answer this, but my hunch is that the atheist heritage of the current government lets them play fast and loose with which religions to tolerate. If there are issues with Islam in Xinjiang that can be averted by putting in a state-approved leader, that would explain the difference in treatment. Posts like this indicate you really don't know what you're talking about. There's a lot you don't know and are simply speculating about, and what you do know is broad and simplistic. We're happy to have people in the thread who don't live in China or follow it every day, but you should probably consider who you're talking to before you charge in and accuse people of racism and then admit you don't know much about China in the same breath.
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Oct 3, 2012 18:17
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flatbus posted:Someone more familiar with religion in China should answer this, but my hunch is that the atheist heritage of the current government lets them play fast and loose with which religions to tolerate. If there are issues with Islam in Xinjiang that can be averted by putting in a state-approved leader, that would explain the difference in treatment. That was pretty close to a rhetorical question, dude. The 'atheist heritage' of the CCP doesn't matter at all, the only thing they care about is how much money they can make from religion and what they have to do to stop religion from being used as an organizing tool or nationalist marker by anyone else. 'Issues with Islam in Xinjiang'?!?! What issues do you think there are with Islam in Xinjiang that the CCP gives half a gently caress about, except that Uighurs might use it as an avenue for expressing prohibited Uighur nationalist sentiment? The 'difference in treatment' comes down to whether or not the Party can use a given religion as a sock puppet by having its leaders talk about 'ethnic unity' and 'upholding the integrity of the motherland' and 'resisting foreign hostile forces,' not some actual issue with religion itself. Basically, what arglebargle said.
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Oct 3, 2012 18:40
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Fall Sick and Die posted:Surprise surprise, once it got to China magically the guy didn't get his casino license so the only solution was to turn it into a functional aircraft carrier. To be fair, up to that point China did have track record of turning aircraft carriers into tourist attractions. I find that record a bit amusing. Third time's the charm eh. Taerkar posted:Generic aircraft carrier experience is a big thing, so keep that in mind. The US has been developing, refining, and redeveloping carrier operation practices for almost as long as planes have existed (Less than 10 years after the Wright brothers were Eugene Ely's first landing/take-off and the Langley was recommissioned about a decade later) This is a good point. Since Russians built the Varyag with specific runway lengths to fit Russian naval aircraft it would make sense for the Chinese to get their assistance, since the PLANAF uses Russian planes. Arglebargle III posted:Posts like this indicate you really don't know what you're talking about. There's a lot you don't know and are simply speculating about, and what you do know is broad and simplistic. We're happy to have people in the thread who don't live in China or follow it every day, but you should probably consider who you're talking to before you charge in and accuse people of racism and then admit you don't know much about China in the same breath. I admit, I don't know much about religion at all. I'm not a very religious person, and I don't care much for religion. Same goes for military matters, I'm not an armchair general and it shows. However, that doesn't mean I don't know anything about China in general, or that what is obviously racism, isn't. It's possible for me to not know about the latest and greatest US carriers and still understand the issues the US has with police brutality. In fact, I'm not sure what you're talking about here: Arglebargle III posted:
What is this jump that I'm making? Posters here have mentioned that Chinese university-age adults are immature and 'young' because they didn't understand sexual matters, and then there was a debate over the existence of sexual education in China. Are those two not related? It doesn't matter, the first assertion is still racist as hell. Are you saying that a lack of sexual education is a proper indicator of personal maturity? Electro-Boogie Jack posted:That was pretty close to a rhetorical question, dude. The 'atheist heritage' of the CCP doesn't matter at all, the only thing they care about is how much money they can make from religion and what they have to do to stop religion from being used as an organizing tool or nationalist marker by anyone else. 'Issues with Islam in Xinjiang'?!?! What issues do you think there are with Islam in Xinjiang that the CCP gives half a gently caress about, except that Uighurs might use it as an avenue for expressing prohibited Uighur nationalist sentiment? The 'difference in treatment' comes down to whether or not the Party can use a given religion as a sock puppet by having its leaders talk about 'ethnic unity' and 'upholding the integrity of the motherland' and 'resisting foreign hostile forces,' not some actual issue with religion itself. Um, that's what I was saying. I wasn't trying to imply that China was on an atheist bender. I wasn't using 'atheist' in the sense of TheAmazingAtheist bashing on those religious tards, I meant 'atheist' in the sense that China can deal with religious organizations without caring much about what they theologically stand for. The 'issues with Islam' I was talking about are mainly uighur nationalism and counterterrorist training (which China has engaged in with Pakistan), not some ideological anti-religion policy. Did you think I believe China is still trying to export the revolution and destroy all religions? My bad in that case, I didn't mean that at all. All I meant was, unlike the US which has Senators playing the religion card over things like a mosque near Ground Zero, the CCP doesn't give a poo poo about religion and so it treats different religions however it wants. That's what I get for answering a rhetorical question with an obvious answer. Edited to change some grammar because I cant rite gud. flatbus fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 18:55
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GuestBob posted:Let's have some perspective. Half the posters in this thread live in Asia or are Asian: the notion that people are setting out to be ignorant and racist is dumb. I hope this is supposed to be an inside joke. Talking to people who live in Asia, especially English teachers about Asian culture is like talking to British colonial administrators in India during the Raj. Living in a mostly isolated foreign community while being pampered and treated like an alien is the fastest way to reinforce Orientalist beliefs. Arglebargle III posted:Posts like this indicate you really don't know what you're talking about. There's a lot you don't know and are simply speculating about, and what you do know is broad and simplistic. We're happy to have people in the thread who don't live in China or follow it every day, but you should probably consider who you're talking to before you charge in and accuse people of racism and then admit you don't know much about China in the same breath. I do know what I'm talking about, at least when it comes to Korea, and he is absolutely right. That you would use his honesty in admitting that there are certain subjects he is less informed on as an excuse to attack him and dismiss the charges of Orientalism and racism in this thread shows you are a cheap debater and a fool. LimburgLimbo posted:They're taking issue with Chinese culture, and it's education system. You could say they're being ethnocentric, because they're judging people using the standards of their own culture as an absolute norm, but nobody is saying anything about race; when people are saying Chinese/Asian/whatever, they're talking about the culture. If people were saying that everyone with an epicanthic fold was like a child than it would be racist as gently caress, but no one is. They're complaining about culture. Yes, we're all being terribly ethnocentric, but absolute cultural relativism sucks, so who gives a drat. Like nobody bothers to attack this post, which shows where the priorities lie in the expat community. I've seen it before, we defend our own against the "discrimination" and "craziness" of those Asians around us. This post is literally a republican talking point with Asian "culture" substituted for black "culture", I would recommend you learn what racism is and read the seminal work: Orientalism by Edward Said if you are to speak on the subject.
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