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FISHMANPET posted:Quoting myself to point out that I guess I'd like another line line into Opiantic, though I proposed mine first. Ok, I missed that. I'll build you a little stub from Deep Bend to the existing southern line.  FISHMANPET posted:Double posting to say I'd like to improve the Indian road between Deep Bend and Opiantic, through Boltic.  Baronjutter posted:Cichlidae, I'm a wealthy steel industrialist looking for coal and iron, and a potential point in the middle to build a smelter. What's in them hills? Basalt. Lots and lots of basalt. It's pretty much useless for steel or coal, but the growing use of tarmac means basalt could be worth quarrying before long. Best get in on the market soon! nielsm posted:I have no idea whether this is a good idea. I know I'd love to be able to get around Hartshire. It smells bad.   edit: don't know why that second one is so big... Hedera Helix posted:The hardpack trail between East Hartshire and the crossroads south of Middleport could stand to be upgraded, along with the unimproved sections directly south leading into New Sanctum. Not the road that runs along the bank of the Fukov; the one that's inland. City streets are cobblestone, not hardpack, so don't worry about that. The city takes care of maintaining and upgrading them. Here are some roads for you.  Adding a ring road around New Sanctum won't do much; it doesn't have the same problem as Hartshire where all the traffic has to go through the downtown area. In fact, a good part of New Sanctum is completely choked off from the main roads, and traffic has to filter down to it. That section of the city is definitely one place you don't want to visit. Volmarias posted:Woah, what's going on here? Why isn't that spur connected to the main line in Waterford? I just didn't put in enough detail. It's all set now.
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Oct 2, 2012 22:29
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The advent of railroads and steam tools means resources that were previously impossible to extract and ship are now an economic possibility! I'd like to construct a narrow gauge (gotta save money!) railway to one of these rich bassalt deposits and start a quarry. A company town shall house the workers and of course sell them goods at a fair price! Basalt is going to be big, I can feel it!
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Oct 2, 2012 22:36
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Cichlidae posted:I know I'd love to be able to get around Hartshire. It smells bad. Can we improve the indian road going through the city, as well? I have this terrible fear of letting the docks stagnate/fester while the city grows towards this new road. edit: Looks like there are still indian roads going through a bunch of city centers. The newly-formed advocacy group Citizens for Urban Management think this is an important issue, and would like to see it addressed. Normal Barbarian fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 00:08
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Baronjutter posted:The advent of railroads and steam tools means resources that were previously impossible to extract and ship are now an economic possibility! I'd like to construct a narrow gauge (gotta save money!) railway to one of these rich bassalt deposits and start a quarry. A company town shall house the workers and of course sell them goods at a fair price! Basalt is going to be big, I can feel it! No more railroads this decade. But after that, sure. There is a very good precedent for this move. heythisguyhere posted:Can we improve the indian road going through the city, as well? I have this terrible fear of letting the docks stagnate/fester while the city grows towards this new road. As I mentioned, roads within cities are already much nicer, whether or not they're Indian Roads. In the next timestep, you will get to see some cities up close. Also, nice name for your organization!
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Oct 3, 2012 00:45
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heythisguyhere posted:Can we improve the indian road going through the city, as well? I have this terrible fear of letting the docks stagnate/fester while the city grows towards this new road. We could use the stone from those new basalt quarries and pave those rutted roads. E: Or hire a sculptor to build a giant Fukov statue in front of the state house in Hartshire will_colorado fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 00:49
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will_colorado posted:We could use the stone from those new basalt quarries and pave those rutted roads. Makes excellent railroad ballast, too. Anyone who can get their hands on it has been using it, but there aren't any major quarries yet. Asphalt will change that.
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Oct 3, 2012 00:54
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Well I'm calling dibs on this first major quarry. I'm late to the game but determined to get my score up.
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Oct 3, 2012 01:11
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Cichlidae posted:HELL YES! That's the reaction I was hoping for. We're gonna Brooklyn the gently caress out of West Sanctum!
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Oct 3, 2012 02:29
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Cichlidae posted:Edit: That's enough for rail lines this decade. Does anyone have any roads to recommend?
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Oct 3, 2012 02:38
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BrooklynBruiser posted:That's the reaction I was hoping for. We're gonna Brooklyn the gently caress out of West Sanctum!    GWBBQ posted:Build up the Indian roads between East Harshire and New Hartshire into a respectable turnpike, and build a turnpike from Meridian to East Sanctum because I said so and that's good enough reasoning for 1850. Clear enough room around them for me to build rail lines next decade. Done and done. Even took out a few chicanes!  
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Oct 3, 2012 02:47
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Make a rail link for Waterbridge-New Heartshire-Interstate along side the turnpike that's there. How does interstate commerce work here?
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Oct 3, 2012 03:07
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mamosodiumku posted:Make a rail link for Waterbridge-New Heartshire-Interstate along side the turnpike that's there. We've already hit our railroad quota for this decade. The next decade will begin probably tomorrow, so propose it again then. Interstate commerce is approximate, like everything else. If you've got a road/railroad to one of those five out-of-state cities marked on the map, you can expect a good amount of traffic and growth. If you've got one going nowhere in particular, that won't lead to as much growth.
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Oct 3, 2012 03:11
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We need a turnpike between New Sanctum and Waterbridge, probably following roughly the same course as the rail line.
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Oct 3, 2012 06:29
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Cichlidae posted:We've already hit our railroad quota for this decade. The next decade will begin probably tomorrow, so propose it again then. It's getting tough to know what's already been done; can you please post another map showing our current progress this decade?
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Oct 3, 2012 12:56
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I propose the same Waterbridge-New Heartshire-Interstate along side the turnpike again. And then a question: are rail tunnels through mountains allowed? mamosodiumku fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Oct 3, 2012 |
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Oct 3, 2012 20:07
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mamosodiumku posted:And then a question: are rail tunnels though mountains allowed? Nobel hasn't invented his explosives yet, so I'd say no.
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Oct 3, 2012 20:11
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nielsm posted:Nobel hasn't invented his explosives yet, so I'd say no. The first rail tunnel in the US was constructed 1831-1834, and is still in existence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple_Bend_Tunnel It was however massively expensive to build, since they had to have men mine and bore all 901 feet through by hand.  Oh and it was successful because the hill or it went through happened to be naturally strong rock, who knows whether the hills and such of Nutmeg are stable enough to not cave in? Also technologically speaking proper ventilation of long tunnels hasn't been figured out as yet so if you made one too long it might fill up with poisonous exhaust and be useless.
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Oct 3, 2012 20:35
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Now that you've posted that it occurs to me that we haven't built a single portage railway! I guess they aren't needed in Nutmeg and the time for them has passed anyway.
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Oct 3, 2012 21:01
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FISHMANPET posted:Now that you've posted that it occurs to me that we haven't built a single portage railway! Well we didn't really have any areas where they would make sense anyway. Any waterways we just dredged or canal'd.
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Oct 3, 2012 22:35
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DECADE OVERCoasterphreak posted:We need a turnpike between New Sanctum and Waterbridge, probably following roughly the same course as the rail line.  Volmarias posted:It's getting tough to know what's already been done; can you please post another map showing our current progress this decade? You'll get 1860 maps quite soon, including selected city maps! mamosodiumku posted:I propose the same Waterbridge-New Heartshire-Interstate along side the turnpike again. There's already a rail line up that route  Rail tunnels? Tiny ones, maybe, but modern-day Connecticut only has a single rock tunnel in the entire state, so I don't think allowing them in Nutmeg would be appropriate. I think that, by the time dynamite was invented, the state was already mostly settled, and it would've caused nearby citizens too much grief. FISHMANPET posted:Now that you've posted that it occurs to me that we haven't built a single portage railway! Yeah, because of the way this was set up, that wasn't really useful. Remember, in real life, there was a lot of overlap in the chronology. So that's it for 1850. The 1860 update should take a while to do, since I need to make city maps, but I'll try to have it posted later tonight.
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Oct 3, 2012 23:31
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We have a problem and you need to fix the signal phasing in today's XKCD comic http://xkcd.com/1116/
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Oct 4, 2012 00:49
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GWBBQ posted:We have a problem and you need to fix the signal phasing in today's XKCD comic Pffft, I don't see any problems. 1860 Holy poo poo, we're at war! While the possibility has been looming for a few years, it looks like hostilities have finally begun, and every Nutmeg citizen is doing his best to bring the nation back under one flag. As it turns out, Nutmeg is a key player in this conflict - not because the front lines are anywhere nearby, but because Nutmeg's arms manufacturing prowess is unmatched. There's just one problem... our cities are an absolute mess! But more on that in a minute. Maps   Railroad plus industry equals growth. It doesn't get much simpler than that. Big winners: New Dublin, Waterbridge, East Hartshire. There aren't any big losers this time around - everyone is growing well. There are three new cities. Wellingford is a mill city specializing in steam engines. Steam is the future, so why not embrace it? North of Waterbridge, Atmington has been founded. It specializes in fine mechanics - watches, clockwork toys, and the like. Orangewich, on the other hand, is where the barons of New Cork City are moving. It's a beautiful, quiet location, and probably an order of magnitude more wealthy than Oliver. You'll want to listen very carefully to Orangewich if you want to keep collecting those sweet, sweet taxes. There are a few new trends this decade. First off, some cities are building parks! It's a novel concept - the first public park was built in Hartshire around 1850, and now it's the "in" thing to do. Second, almost every city has a tram line, which is leading to a new phenomenon: suburbs. Cities are becoming less clumped and more tentacular - it's great to live in the countryside and commute downtown on the tram. This has been going on with buses for decades, but the addition of that trendy railroad stuff has launched it skyward. Finally, the rampant deforestation has really slowed down, and will probably peak in the next couple decades. Improved farming machines mean that less land is needed to produce the same food, and better shipping means that vittles from the more temperate lands to the East are cheaper than locally grown goods. But, the war! Oh man! Here's the thing: every city that can produce goods for the war effort is hard at work. New Hartshire is making rifle stocks and cannon wheels, New Dublin is making ironclads and steamers, Atmington is making fuzes, Waterbridge is making bullets and cannon, Mutnap making uniforms, Nogahyde making boots, Farmingham making gunpowder, Hartshire making rifles, and so on. The logistics of moving all these goods are mindblowing, and it doesn't help that our cities look like an absolute mess. Let's look at Hartshire first.   Key: Blue = water Purple = railroad Red = road White = undeveloped land Green = park (can't touch that land) Lime = cemetery (very hard to dig up) Gray = buildings (can remove, for a price) Black = IMPORTANT buildings (can't touch) Yellow = tram line Orange = bridge So here's the deal! For this decade, we're all working together, so it's a collaborative effort. We have three cities to fix, and Hartshire is the first one. I want you all to discuss this, and figure out how to solve these goals: 1) Unite the rail lines, producing one Union Station 2) Improve access across the Big Fukov River 3) Preserve as much of the existing city as possible This is a rather freeform assignment; don't get frustrated if things aren't clear. I'll step in to provide guidance where I can. The goal isn't to outdo other posters, it's to end up with the best result that meets those three goals. Edit: PSD files! https://docs.google.com/open?id=0ByQzqtNM0WuFc2VQTUNZTUdoc0U https://docs.google.com/open?id=0ByQzqtNM0WuFckJSQ2JWaWlrM0E Cichlidae fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 02:18
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I just realized the citizens of Oliver have accidentally been treating the capital as a lovely working class mill town, and not the capital of the state. Well they'll make up for it by building a new station for the town. A central station. A... grand central station. Though it'll take some time to figure out what exactly to do. Where are the stations now (or should we just not care)? And which of those spurs are for industry and which are just space wasting train turnarounds?
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Oct 4, 2012 03:09
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FISHMANPET posted:I just realized the citizens of Oliver have accidentally been treating the capital as a lovely working class mill town, and not the capital of the state. There are main stations and spur stations: On the left side of the map is the Oliver line, with two branches for industrial service, and a main station just west of the bridge. In the center are two lines (one from Chenchester, one from Winton) which merge, along with some sorting yards, and meet the big station downtown at the tram line. A couple of its tracks go across the road for easy loading, shunting, and all that stuff... I really don't know much about railyards, unfortunately. The Chenchester line also has a branch along the river for some older industries there. And on the right side of the map is a smaller (but very busy) station for the rail line that crosses the Fukov into East Hartshire. No spurs, just a small turnaround and sorting yard. I'm sure some of the traingeeks in here can tell me the proper terms for this stuff. Cichlidae fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 03:14
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gently caress Photoshop.
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Oct 4, 2012 03:20
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Citizens for Urban Managent humbly suggest that we let the worst cities burn to the ground via enemy action. The ashes will make excellent fertilizer for parks, and the rubble can be used to create new waterfront land à la post-earthquake San Francisco. There's nothing like a clean slate!
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Oct 4, 2012 03:24
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So, I've been following this whole game and I've found it very interesting, but I never really seemed to have the enthusiasm of all the other people that have gotten into this. But seeing this problem just made me want to come out and see what I could do. Obviously I can't really compare to the practicality of Koesj's solution, but here's something I put together in Paint real quick.  Make a new road/rail bridge just south of the existing central station, connecting it with the two lines to the south and east as shown on the right side in very-shaky-hand-o-vision. Obviously the Oliver train line will want to assert its superiority over everyone else, using an elevated railway above the streets of the city ending in a new station above the new central station.
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Oct 4, 2012 03:43
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Koesj posted:gently caress Photoshop. I like this. I assume that arrow on the west side means you're closing the Oliver line station, and merging it into the Chenchester line. The DB&O Company is fine with this, as long as the industrial spurs are kept, and some additional track is built so that trains coming out of the spur can connect to the Chenchester line. In addition, tram should be made to connect to the station. Actually, I've got another idea, let me give it a try. E: Here's my terrible MS paint abomination  The changes I've made:
Due to the war, building a new terminal is out, but after the war the families of Oliver promise to build a grand station after the war is over. FISHMANPET fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 04:03
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Because of Hartshire's location it will be important to move traffic through the city. I'll assume we have lots of money and propose a combination of a few ideas. I'm terrible at Photoshop so imagine multiple tracks if necessary. Build a new rail bridge to access the central station, send the Waterbridge and new Sanctum lines across the bridge. Convert the old rail bridge to a road bridge. The Oliver line hugs the river bank to get to the new central station or head across the river south or east, or it can bypass the city entirely to head west. What do the elevations look like at this scale? Getting the Oliver line across the new bridge might end up being a steep grade. As usual, anyone is free to share the tracks of my through route (New Sanctum - Hartshire - Wincester) for the price of either rent or shares in their company. If they choose not to cooperate, they will have to build parallel to mine.
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Oct 4, 2012 05:46
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i barely GNU her! posted:Because of Hartshire's location it will be important to move traffic through the city. I'll assume we have lots of money and propose a combination of a few ideas. I'm terrible at Photoshop so imagine multiple tracks if necessary. Waterfront property can be worth a boatload of money. You're affecting the town's commerce if you're preventing river traffic in the town; I'd reconsider having rail traffic go right along the edge of the water.
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Oct 4, 2012 05:52
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Here's my idea. Original areas are left intact but cut down depending on freight use. The southern line crosses the river on a new bridge that shares road access, allowing new road traffic. It also uses the northern lines old rail corridor minimizing the necessity to purchase and demolish buildings. The western line makes the cut into the north just like Koesj's plan, minimizing major bridge construction. I do believe this plan will keep a more central location into the city unlike Koesj's station location and won't require removing or attempting to build around what looks like it could become a fairly major northern corridor and tram line. EDIT: Small addendum, I like Gnu's idea of allowing the lines to pass through town too, but putting it through the station would slow down traffic and make i more congested. I'd edit my map to allow the northern lines access directly into the southern lines but this way they avoid the station itself if they're not using it. Opals25 fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 05:54
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Volmarias posted:Waterfront property can be worth a boatload of money. You're affecting the town's commerce if you're preventing river traffic in the town; I'd reconsider having rail traffic go right along the edge of the water. This is true. We can have the Oliver line follow its old route to its station, then cross the smaller river and parallel the trolley line into the central station and bridge. As long as nobody in town objects to bulldozing a bunch of buildings and parks (they probably will). Opals25 posted:EDIT: Small addendum, I like Gnu's idea of allowing the lines to pass through town too, but putting it through the station would slow down traffic and make i more congested. I'd edit my map to allow the northern lines access directly into the southern lines but this way they avoid the station itself if they're not using it. Like I said I have a vested interest in making at least my own lines a through route. I suppose it would be easier if I told the other lines to go screw themselves
Quebec Bagnet fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 06:41
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Koesj posted:gently caress Photoshop.
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Oct 4, 2012 06:56
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After careful consideration, the team from the Great Something Something has found a way to connect all of the disparate lines into Hartshire, allow trains to move both through and around the city center, and do so with a minimum number of condemnations. The trick is to draw most of the traffic through the as-of-yet undeveloped parts of the city: As you can see, trains heading from any point would be able to head to the big periwinkle-colored union station, or else bypass it entirely. Two rail bridges would be built- one across the Fukov, serving traffic from Meridian and New Sanctum, and another across the west river, serving traffic from Oliver, Opiantic, and New Dublin. Additionally, this plan includes road bridges, for the benefit of the citizens of Hartshire. The first bridge would connect the old turnpike south straight into the heart of the old city, replacing the busiest ferry service in the state. The second and third bridges, built to the east, would connect the fast-growing industrial districts of East Hartshire with the city, fueling development and trade throughout the urban area. The light pink road bridges are only there in order to pad the figures for this plan; when concerns are inevitably raised about the price tag, we put out a compromise plan that doesn't include these bridges, and will look like a better deal than it would if the initial proposal had lacked them. Keep this under your hats, everybody.  What do you say?
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Oct 4, 2012 07:48
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Koesj posted:gently caress Photoshop. While elegant, aren't most train stations of this era head-in?
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Oct 4, 2012 08:28
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I like this one the most. It re-uses most of the existing infrastructure and requires very little new track. However a suggestion to improve this: Add a new industrial yard area east of the lake, and expand to double tracking out of the city as far as reasonable. Keep four tracks northbound from the central station to the new yard, and go down to two tracks about a long train's length after the new yard. The ideas to extend the central station into a bridge over Fukov also seems reasonable, and I imagine the old harbor area of the station isn't so heavily used any longer. Edit: Preparing to double track the mainline is important! Rail traffic is steadily increasing and having single track operation with all the complications it involves is severely slowing down traffic. Even if all of the mainline can't be double tracked right away, preparing the exit from the city is important, since the right-of-way should be secured while the areas aren't as heavily built. nielsm fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 09:31
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I'm really loving the diversity of ideas! Here are a couple quick notes, for those who have asked. - The elevation is essentially flat. There is, at most, a 20 foot elevation change across the whole city. - Waterfront land is cheap as anything else. It's a dirty place, the river stinks of sewage, and the docks are manned by unsavory people. Besides, if we want more riverfront later, we can always start filling in the Fukov!
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Oct 4, 2012 12:28
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Cichlidae posted:- Waterfront land is cheap as anything else. It's a dirty place, the river stinks of sewage, and the docks are manned by unsavory people. Besides, if we want more riverfront later, we can always start filling in the Fukov! I was thinking towards the economic workings of the city as a whole. We already have the infrastructure for docks and wharves, why would we plow it under instead of moving the line like 50 feet north?
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Oct 4, 2012 14:13
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Cichlidae posted:- Waterfront land is cheap as anything else. It's a dirty place, the river stinks of sewage, and the docks are manned by unsavory people. Besides, if we want more riverfront later, we can always start filling in the Fukov!
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Oct 4, 2012 14:35
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Mandalay posted:While elegant, aren't most train stations of this era head-in? Many were, but many others were fully or partially run-through. Most specifically, big important cities tended to get terminals where the only way to leave the terminal was out the way you came without the ability to turn around. But lesser cities would often get a station that was partially run through or fully run through, so that the train could continue between towns easily. Think of it like how, originally for Philadelphia to "New York City" (actually stations on the west bank of the Hudson with ferries) routes; Philadelphia and "New York City"'s (again, usually actually in Hoboken or Jersey City with a ferry to Manhattan since under-the-river tunnels couldn't be built yet) terminals for each railroad would each have massive terminals that required a train to back out once in. But intervening cities like say Trenton and Newark, who would be along the routes, would have pass-through stations for these railroads so as not to unduly slow the long distance traveler. So when you're building train stations right now, you want to think about what it serves. Is it the plain old end terminal of a line? It's not going to be a run through station and probably won't even have a turning loop. Is it part of either a single railroad's continuous route, or part of a route where Railroad X agrees Railroad Y can run trains on its lines to a certain point past the Union Station? You might very well build a run-through station. And in the special case of a Union Station, it might look like it's a run-through facility, but actually the opposing sides of it don't connect so its two different "head-in" stations sharing a building. We're not quite up to this particular time yet, but this is what often happened when you had a big river you couldn't cross by rail: 
Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Oct 4, 2012 |
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Oct 4, 2012 14:50
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