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Soylent Pudding posted:I designed a new OP: I have another question, please: assume there's a usual Owner->Property Manager->Tenant arrangement. Owner requests information from PM (e.g., tenant forwarding address). PM voluntarily responds via e-mail w/ no supporting documentation (e.g., info is not substantially validated). A subpoena later shows the provided information to be incorrect. Is the PM liable in any way (e.g., contempt, deceit)? Are there any existing precedents for this scenario that I can research?
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Oct 10, 2012 13:21
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It sounds like a pretty standard negligence issue. Depends on the contractual obligation of the manager, the reasonability of the owner's reliance, and the manager's negligence. The specific facts would determine it... like the tenant could have just lied to the manager, and I don't see any liability there.
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Oct 10, 2012 13:55
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woozle wuzzle posted:It sounds like a pretty standard negligence issue. Depends on the contractual obligation of the manager, the reasonability of the owner's reliance, and the manager's negligence. The specific facts would determine it... like the tenant could have just lied to the manager, and I don't see any liability there. "Negligence" was the language I needed, thanks! I now need to research negligence versus indemnification, to identify liability. Am I going to be hosed, or is there legal precedence for absolving indemnification? Contracts were executed in UT. edit: http://www.thelienzone.com/articles/Indemnification_Clauses.htm Found this a second ago. I only had time to skim it, but it looks like a worthy read. reyalsnogard fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Oct 11, 2012 |
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Oct 11, 2012 14:15
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reyalsnogard posted:My contract w/ the PM has an indemnification clause which, as written, pretty much makes them untouchable (e.g., anything they either do or fail to do; shielded by all losses, damages, etc., "without limitation"). Just because it's in the contract doesn't mean that the clause is enforceable.
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Oct 11, 2012 16:37
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To begin with, it may not be actionable negligence even without indemnification. It all depends on the facts, and I can imagine a lot of scenarios of mistaken address that don't rise to the level of actionable negligence. But let's say it's actionable: that contract likely protects them. The ways to get around it are to say that the negligence was outside the scope of the contract, or that the contract/clause is invalid or unenforceable. For example, if the property manager borrowed your car and wrecked it, that's outside of the scope of the contract. This sounds like it's likely within the scope, but that's not 100%. So then is there something fruity with the contract itself, as Macunaima is getting at. It's impossible to tell from a distance, but I would not be optimistic. I think you're going to have to buckle down and get a local lawyer to win whatever thingy you've got. Successfully attacking that contract virtually requires it. At least get a consultation with a local landlord/tenant attorney.
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Oct 11, 2012 16:53
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Unfair trade practice issues always float around in these types of issues too. Not saying there is one here.
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Oct 11, 2012 18:28
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Tax question, can a city I lived in make me provide tax info for years I did not live there? They are subpoenaing me for records from when I was in school, and I would argue that those years I lived in that city since I had an apartment and only came home on holidays, not for breaks, so I would be a nonresident during those years. They have no requirements for nonresidents.
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Oct 11, 2012 18:58
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Reyal, haven't you gotten a Utah attorney yet? I know you're a remote landlord and want to keep your costs down, but really, you need local counsel. I'm not entirely convinced that woozle's right and negligence is the answer here - if there's a liability waiver in your contract with the PM, then woozle is correct in that negligence or breach of contract is your best bet, but that might be very difficult to prove. Also, even if it is the PM's fault, that doesn't get you off the hook. It just means that he has to pay you back for what you pay the former tenant. All of this discussion is irrelevant, though, because you need to get local counsel. DO IT NOW CHRIST ALMIGHTY GOOGLE UTAH ATTORNEY AND CALL SOMEONE. Seriously, there are a lot of great firms in Salt Lake. Parr Brown, Durham Jones, Ray Quinney, Ballard Spahr, etc etc. (Disclaimer: while I have friends at some of those firms, I have not worked at any of them and am not affiliated with any of them at the moment). It'll cost you money - as a wild-rear end guess, the going rate for associates' time is $150-$200/hour around here, with partners upwards (many in the $200-$400 range, but I know there are a few firms with partners up to $450 or even $500/hour, though I think the high end is extraordinarily rare unless you're going to a bigger regional firm). But that money might save you in the long run because you will spend less on stuff.
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Oct 11, 2012 19:20
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Nevvy Z posted:Tax question, can a city I lived in make me provide tax info for years I did not live there? If it's gotten to the point where there is a formal subpoena you absolutely need to talk to a lawyer yesterday, regardless of the position you take legally, not complying can lead to some serious penalties.
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Oct 11, 2012 21:06
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Arcturas posted:I'm not entirely convinced that woozle's right and negligence is the answer here - if there's a liability waiver in your contract with the PM, then woozle is correct in that negligence or breach of contract is your best bet, but that might be very difficult to prove. Yeah you may be right... reading between the lines this is what looks like went down from stitching his posts together (since he doesn't say what's actually going on): He sued the tenants for move-out damage, but service was bad. It turns out the forwarding address he got from the property management company is wrong. So he's hosed, and has no hope of finding the long lost tenants who are now in a commune in New Mexico or whatever. The only pocket for liability left is suing the property manager for getting the address wrong. Maybe I jumped the gun, and there is contractual language about the move-out process that the management company screwed up (moving it from negligence to contract). But almost no matter how it pans out... I suspect the well is bone-dry on him recouping whatever it is he's trying to recoup. "The tenants gave us a false forwarding address" sounds like a pretty good defense to me.
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Oct 11, 2012 21:56
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Nevvy Z posted:They are subpoenaing me... This is exactly the situation I made these for:
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Oct 11, 2012 22:51
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Arcturas posted:Reyal, haven't you gotten a Utah attorney yet? woozle wuzzle posted:He sued the tenants for move-out damage, but service was bad. It turns out the forwarding address he got from the property management company is wrong. It's getting ridiculous. Why the PM is, from the looks of it, indirectly defending the tenant is beyond me.
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Oct 11, 2012 23:22
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Quick question here: My younger cousin, who works for my dad and me, just told me that the police been asking him questions. They found him at his dad's place of work and again at his house. They asked him about cell phone calls and texts he made. He has never been arrested, however. Is this legal? Can they just randomly search people's call/text logs? I know if you are arrested it is fair game, but remotely accessing this? We live in IL, btw.
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Oct 12, 2012 00:42
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The Broletariat posted:Quick question here: My younger cousin, who works for my dad and me, just told me that the police been asking him questions. They found him at his dad's place of work and again at his house. They asked him about cell phone calls and texts he made. He has never been arrested, however. Is this legal? Can they just randomly search people's call/text logs? I know if you are arrested it is fair game, but remotely accessing this? He needs to lawyer the gently caress up now. If they're subbing his messages, they're getting close to arresting him. He also needs to be absolutely sure he invokes his Miranda rights loudly and repeatedly until honored, remembers to ask if he can leave (and leave if they let him), and consent to no searches. This is easier to do when you have a go to criminal lawyer to call. Nothing is gained for even an innocent person by cooperating with a police officer who thinks he's guilty (which they do if they've subbed his texts) without legal counsel. He needs to be clear about the following: If they are going to arrest him, they will arrest him regardless of what he says or does. He's not talking his way out of it. However, if they detain him, they don't have enough to arrest him. But if you talk, even if you are innocent, they can twist his words into an arrest and/or indictment. You can talk your way into, but not out of, an arrest.
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Oct 12, 2012 01:37
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nm posted:Text records and call logs are pretty free thanks to the decline in the 4th Amendment over the last 40 years (stop voting republican). Thanks, this is basically what I told him. I just wanted to know if searching text messages on a phone without even arresting someone was legal. Apparently some of his friends are being questioned too. Don't have any idea what they've been into, but I'll reiterate not talking with the cops unless a lawyer is present.
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Oct 12, 2012 01:49
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The Broletariat posted:Thanks, this is basically what I told him. I just wanted to know if searching text messages on a phone without even arresting someone was legal. Apparently some of his friends are being questioned too. Don't have any idea what they've been into, but I'll reiterate not talking with the cops unless a lawyer is present.
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Oct 12, 2012 02:14
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I was reading another thread on the forums and one of the posts got me curious. I want to know if there is a law in the US (either state or federal) that prohibits a company to makes a cashier owe back any money he or she is short on in their till? I've heard it said that it is not legal, but I'm curious as to what the specific law is, like the statute number or where I could find the information. My google-fu is weak and I wasn't able to find anything with the search terms I used.
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Oct 12, 2012 03:28
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flocons de mais posted:I was reading another thread on the forums and one of the posts got me curious. It varies by state. You can check here: http://www.employmentlawhandbook.com/WageHour/WagePaymentLaws.html Search down to: Deductions from Wages - Cash shortages
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Oct 12, 2012 03:49
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woozle wuzzle posted:To begin with, it may not be actionable negligence even without indemnification. It all depends on the facts, and I can imagine a lot of scenarios of mistaken address that don't rise to the level of actionable negligence. Just adding on to this, in a good number (I'd guess the majority) of jurisdictions, negligence is not disclaimable by warranty. I didn't read the problem super thoroughly, but if you're going the negligence route, and it is in fact actionable, there are potentially a few ways to attack that disclaimer, but you'll certainly want a lawyer to do the research on it.
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Oct 12, 2012 18:46
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I have a question. I live in the city of Madisonville, TN, and we have a local ballot referendum coming up on whether or not to raise the sales tax. The city government has been filling the local papers with ads encouraging people to vote yes on this. It seems like this would be illegal, as I am pretty sure you aren't supposed to spend tax dollars to tell people how to vote, however my search through the Tennessee State Code has been unfruitful. Is this against the law, and if so what can I do about it?
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Oct 13, 2012 05:23
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Well, looks like I'm going to court for my speeding ticket. I had the pretrial hearing and plead "Not guilty" so I got a notice to appear for a trial this December. Will I get a public defender? Or should I call one of the lawyers who sent me a flyer after I got the ticket? Should I hope that the officer who gave me the ticket doesn't show up? I'm in south Florida by the way, not that that really matters for something as stupid as a speeding ticket.
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Oct 13, 2012 06:11
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nm posted:This is easier to do when you have a go to criminal lawyer to call. I haven't been in any legal trouble in years. I don't need a criminal lawyer at the moment. However, if it comes to the point where I need one, I don't want to be flipping through the yellow pages in a jail cell. You used to work in Minnesota, and I am living in Minnesota. Can you send me an email (my name at gmail) or a PM if you can recommend a criminal defense attorney in MN?
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Oct 13, 2012 07:56
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Outpost22 posted:Well, looks like I'm going to court for my speeding ticket. I had the pretrial hearing and plead "Not guilty" so I got a notice to appear for a trial this December.
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Oct 13, 2012 08:13
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Outpost22 posted:Well, looks like I'm going to court for my speeding ticket. I had the pretrial hearing and plead "Not guilty" so I got a notice to appear for a trial this December. You don't get a PD for a speeding ticket. You show up and if the officer's there, plead out. If the officer shows up, it gets dismissed.
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Oct 13, 2012 16:09
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I have heard that those ticket lawyers can get a better deal than you can on your own, but I haven't had to try it myself.
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Oct 13, 2012 16:15
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I paid for a lawyer to deal with a speeding ticket before I even had to appear in court (the cost was cheaper vs missed work + travel). They got a 25 over dismissed on court costs. YMMV obviously.
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Oct 14, 2012 01:13
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I understand possession of burglary tools is a felony in some states. How do locksmiths protect themselves from being charged? How do they protect themselves from liability if they let someone into the wrong place? Do they just have to carry a ton of insurance? It would be nice to make a few bucks on the side because I live in a building with no dedicated lockout service in NE, but I also don't want to go to jail.
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Oct 14, 2012 21:49
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nm posted:You don't get a public defender for a speeding ticket. You do if you're fast enough 
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Oct 14, 2012 21:58
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NancyPants posted:I understand possession of burglary tools is a felony in some states. How do locksmiths protect themselves from being charged? How do they protect themselves from liability if they let someone into the wrong place? Do they just have to carry a ton of insurance? As someone said in the Lock Picking A/T thread is that as long as you can show or prove you're on the way to a job or, for example, you're just sitting in your Nashville Lock Pickers, LLC. truck you're not going to be in trouble. However, if you're in a bar drinking with picks on you, you could get in trouble with the law. quote:Basically, locksmith's tools are regarded as burglary tools and unless you have a "reasonable excuse" to have them upon your person at that time, you are considered to be "going equipped to steal". So for example at work, in my work vehicle I am considered to have a reasonable excuse to have the tools, but if I go out drinking and have picks in my pocket while I'm obviously not at work if the police officer was feeling particularly vindictive I could be charged with going equipped. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3506679#post407521999
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Oct 14, 2012 22:43
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NancyPants posted:I understand possession of burglary tools is a felony in some states. How do locksmiths protect themselves from being charged? How do they protect themselves from liability if they let someone into the wrong place? Do they just have to carry a ton of insurance? If you can show that your profession is locksmith then your tools become your trade tools and not 'burglary tools' as far as the law is concerned... in sane places, anyway
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Oct 14, 2012 22:57
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NancyPants posted:I understand possession of burglary tools is a felony in some states. How do locksmiths protect themselves from being charged? How do they protect themselves from liability if they let someone into the wrong place? Do they just have to carry a ton of insurance? In California, they must prove specific intent to commit a felony with those items. It actually isn't easy to prove. If you're doing locksmith wor though, yopu want to consult local laws regarding key duplication and lockout type work. That is where trouble can happen. There's a lot of paperwork before you can dup a do not duplicate key for example. Agesilaus posted:You do if you're fast enough
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Oct 14, 2012 23:41
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Javid posted:I have heard that those ticket lawyers can get a better deal than you can on your own, but I haven't had to try it myself. On average, I'd say this is the case. Traffic attorneys are usually at least somewhat familiar with the court (and, if applicable, the prosecutor) hearing the traffic infraction. They will know what the judge (and prosecutor) likes to see, what alternate, lesser traffic statutes might be used as an amended charge, etc.
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Oct 15, 2012 00:34
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LLCoolJD posted:On average, I'd say this is the case. Traffic attorneys are usually at least somewhat familiar with the court (and, if applicable, the prosecutor) hearing the traffic infraction. They will know what the judge (and prosecutor) likes to see, what alternate, lesser traffic statutes might be used as an amended charge, etc. Yeah they generally get you less than the max fine and are frequently helpful in getting deferred adjudication, which can be helpful in states that limit the number of times you can driver safety class in a year.
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Oct 16, 2012 16:41
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I live in North Carolina and got a speeding ticket (74 in a 70, guess he was having a bad day) in West Virginia, Jackson County, in April. I forgot about it entirely, lost the ticket, and was just recently mailed a notice from the NC DMV that my license is going to be suspended if I don't deal with it. I just want to pay it off and move on, but I can't for the life of me figure out how. The court telephone number provided on the letter I got from the NC DMV connects to a doctor's office, and googling for the Jackson County Courthouse number only provides phone numbers of judges, which I'm not sure is what I'm looking for. I don't care about paying a lawyer to reduce the ticket, I just want to send a check somewhere or type my credit card number on a phone and be done. Can anyone tell me what the hell I'm supposed to do?
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Oct 16, 2012 17:46
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And My Fax! posted:Can anyone tell me what the hell I'm supposed to do? Call the circuit court clerk if that doesn't work, call the county clerk then the county magistrate's office
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Oct 16, 2012 18:34
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Don't speeding tickets usually get dismissed immediately when they're only 6 over or less, if you show up to the hearing?
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Oct 16, 2012 19:38
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joat mon posted:Call the circuit court clerk Thank you, I was able to get a hold of the magistrate's office after getting bounced around a bit, they told me what I need to do. What I need to do sounds strange though, so I'd like to run it by you all if I can. The magistrate's office said I need to write, on a piece of paper, "I plead (guilty or no contest) to (my case #)." Put that in an envelope with a check for the ticket, and include my address for them to return verification to. When they send back verification, I have to take it to my DMV and presumably they'll take the scheduled suspension away. It sounds like a strange process to me, but I don't have experience for comparison. Also, should I plead guilty or no contest? Is there a difference?
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Oct 16, 2012 19:57
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And My Fax! posted:It sounds like a strange process to me, but I don't have experience for comparison. Also, should I plead guilty or no contest? Is there a difference? Particularly for a small town/county, the process you've described is not unusual. Pleading guilty is pretty self-explanatory; no contest is basically "I'm not saying I did it, I'm not saying I didn't do it, but if a jury believed what the cop said, that would be enough to find me guilty." No contest makes more of a difference if there may be civil liability later on down the line. E.g., if a person is in a crash and gets charged with DUI, a guilty plea on the DUI will function as an admission in a civil case for damages. A no contest is not an admission of guilt, so it wouldn't have the same consequences for a civil liability case. Prosecutors and judges like to hear people say they're guilty. In some cases accepting responsibility may lead to a better result. If your fine is the same whether you plead guilty or no contest, you don't lose anything by pleading no contest.
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Oct 16, 2012 21:43
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joat mon posted:This is general background on how criminal cases generally work in the U.S. and is not legal advice. Ok, thanks. Considering pleading no contest makes no difference in how much I pay and there's no chance of a civil suit, I'll just plead guilty to have the best chance that my plea is accepted and this doesn't go any further.
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Oct 16, 2012 22:24
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And My Fax! posted:Ok, thanks. Considering pleading no contest makes no difference in how much I pay and there's no chance of a civil suit, I'll just plead guilty to have the best chance that my plea is accepted and this doesn't go any further. Not your lawyer, not legal advice, but I don't know why you'd ever plead guilty when you can plead no contest. You need to check your state's laws about how it classifies no contest (nolo contendre). Ever fill a job application where it asks if you have ever been convicted of a misdemeanor of felony? Get ready to answer yes if you plead guilty, or risk getting fired if you say no and the truth comes out. Also if this letter is coming from the dmv, you should contact the dmv and ask them if paying whatever amount is listed in their letter to you will completely resolve the issue. My concern is that you failed to appear in court, and that is a problem the court has with you. The fact that the court also reported it to the dmv may not affect the underlying issue that you still have to appear and explain to the Court why you failed to appear, and then plead your case regarding your ticket.
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Oct 16, 2012 23:11
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