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ZombieApostate posted:Look at that again and tell me it doesn't read as "Hurr I take your railroad, but you can be my finger puppet". That's how historical railroading worked though.
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Oct 15, 2012 15:50
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"Railroaded" is a term for a reason...
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Oct 15, 2012 16:54
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By this logic, there's nothing stopping me from writing a post about how I successfully assassinate all of Ron Pauls Friend's characters and his railroads slide into the ocean. I'm not tryin to sperg about MAI RAILROAD FAILING OH NO, but more about how it seems like I've been casually removed from the game by another player so his master plan may continue. But this is turning into a silly slapfight so I'll just shut up now I guess.
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Oct 15, 2012 16:55
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Oct 15, 2012 17:05
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Install Gentoo posted:Did you massively overengineer it so that it's pretty much impossible to put more load on it than the structure can handle? Because that's why the Brooklyn Bridge is still up. The Brooklyn Bridge is the best bridge.  I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that even if all four suspension cables spontaneously snapped at the same time, the span would just sag a bit. BrooklynBruiser fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Oct 15, 2012 |
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Oct 15, 2012 17:39
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^^^^^It defeated Godzilla in that terrible movie.ZombieApostate posted:By this logic, there's nothing stopping me from writing a post about how I successfully assassinate all of Ron Pauls Friend's characters and his railroads slide into the ocean. I'm not tryin to sperg about MAI RAILROAD FAILING OH NO, but more about how it seems like I've been casually removed from the game by another player so his master plan may continue. But this is turning into a silly slapfight so I'll just shut up now I guess. All you had to was bring Cornelius Vanderbilt into the conversation or have the equivalent of the PRR take control and the NS would have been hosed. I'm just trying to put a little historical perspective here that's all. But its not the point of this exericise to argue about which railroad sucks. It's to build infrastructure,have it fall apart than fix it all while trying not to piss people off. Ron Pauls Friend fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Oct 15, 2012 |
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Oct 15, 2012 19:16
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Cichlidae posted:All redundant routes will be abandoned, or railbanked. Non-redundant routes can stick around for a while, at least until the 50s, when everyone gets to go bankrupt and eventually be nationalized. Hey, in the 1950s, can I call the horrible alliance of commuter and metro railroads, someone has got to be the MTA/Amtrak analog, buying all the rails, running them for the government, et all.
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Oct 15, 2012 20:41
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I've been following this thread on and off for a while now, and thought I'd mention something I've had some experience with. Sorry if it has been brought up before, I have by no means read this entire thread. This is also pretty image heavy. US 20 starts in Newport, Oregon and heads east through the Coast Range, then off across the country. Through the Coast range it is a pretty twisty road that has a fair number of fatal accidents a year. A couple years back ODOT started a project to straighten a several mile section of road. To steal a graphic from the newspaper:  Image links to google maps of the same area. Unfortunately satellite pictures don't seem to show any of the construction. So it would bypass a number of tight corners and a big double back. A nice improvement over the current road. Rather than the typical cut/fill method of road construction, it was decided to use the style I've seen more in Europe, cut where needed but fly the roads around on elevated roadways rather than spread out tons and tons of fill and worry about putting culverts in for sensitive fish streams, etc. It really would've been a nice drive.  The completed bridge, spanning over a sensitive fish stream.  The rest of the bridge sites are like this, abutments partially in and all of the bents (I'm told that's what the columns with top cap are supposed to be called) standing there ready for a deck.  The 'six pack'. This would've been a pretty massive bridge. The center two bents have 8ft dia columns that are just around 120 feet tall, the outer 2 on each side are 6ft dia and obviously somewhat shorter. All in all, one completed bridge and 3 stopped sites, with 3 to 6 bents each. So why weren't these finished? Problem is, somebody screwed up. A portion of the new straightened road was built on unstable ground that is sliding down the hill, popping the new bridge up and out of its abutment and pushing it over. You can't quite run traffic over a bridge that is trying to fall over. After 2 years of frantic work trying to find a way to save the work that had done, ODOT finally decided to pull the job back from the contractor, demolish the problem sites and start over. http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/05/us_20_highway_straightening_pr.html  The end of the bridge where it is popping out of the abutment. You can see it has lifted enough to take the weight off of the piece of steel closest to the camera.  Separation crack at the other end of the bridge, where the deck is pulling away from the abutment at that end. My company was brought in by the demolition contractor to bring down the bridge and various other bridge bents so that they could safely chew them up on the ground. Structures these massive aren't something you want to track a piece of equipment to and reach up to hammer away at, having big hunks of concrete raining down around you. So we got to blow them up.  http://youtu.be/MVgV87FfnXk http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/09/us_20_bridge_columns_will_come.html To pull something up from 70 pages ago, Cichlidae posted:California has the strictest seismic building codes in the country, and we have a lot of ways of getting around earthquakes. One thing that's been incorporated in all steel construction nationwide is tighter rebar spacing in concrete columns. Bridge decks can be made to "float" atop the substructure, so even if the piers move violently, the deck can stay up. There are foundations that essentially do the same thing for the entire structure. Oregon has some pretty strict earthquake standards, too. I've heard that these were built to withstand an 8.5 earthquake, but I never heard a confirmation of that. Whatever they were built to, there were seriously massive amounts of rebar in these things.  IIRC, 3in dia vertical rebar with lots and lots of smaller ring bar.  Just look at that coupler/reducer. So, yeah. They were pretty loving sturdy.  But, get rid of that ring bar and the concrete in an area, then the massive weight (we figured the 6ft dia columns to be ~2tons/foot) and gravity takes care of the rest.  Sometimes the rebar held and twisted up like licorice.  Other times it stretched, snapped and whipped around. Here it managed to capture a good bunch of ring bar. Two weeks ago we brought down the bridge and ended our portion of the project. With the failure of the bridges and the continual movement of the ground ODOT has decided to go back to fill. Last I heard was that they'll need something like 2 million yards of fill to meet the new design. I have a lot more pictures of everything on the ground, if anyone is interested.
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Oct 15, 2012 23:00
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I love that video where the supports collapse and you're like "Hey, it's going to be a nice pile of rubble" and then it just stops halfway through and falls over. Was that intentional?
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Oct 15, 2012 23:10
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FISHMANPET posted:I love that video where the supports collapse and you're like "Hey, it's going to be a nice pile of rubble" and then it just stops halfway through and falls over. Was that intentional? Yeah, they were designed to fall over. They were just totally solid, there wasn't any chance that they would break up in any meaningful way just by hitting the ground. The downward motion is the sudden void created by our explosives. The ring bar is blown all across the hill and the concrete is just gone, the vertical bar alone can't support that kind of weight, it bows right out. So the entire bent falls down until it hits what remains of the pillars below where the explosives were, then falls over. The excavator in the video is pulling a cable that is around the top of the bent, just giving it enough of a tug to tease it into the direction that we want. We also brought some of them down sideways, rather than forwards or backwards. I'll see if I can dig up the video.  That is about the extent of the damage to the pillars you could expect when it comes down. E: A picture of one that we brought down sideways, at least.  More damage to one of the columns, but nothing major. And the endcap is driven a good 6 feet into the ground. Once they're down on the ground the Demolition contractor moves their equipment in and beings chewing them right up. Arrath fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Oct 15, 2012 |
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Oct 15, 2012 23:20
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Arrath posted:US 20 stuff That is some awesome demo porn! I'm amazed they didn't catch the fly in the ointment in design; borings are incredibly cheap, so there's no reason not to put four under each foundation. Do you have any more information about the design flaws? It must've been a REALLY big deal if it didn't get caught until the bridges were almost complete. In about an hour, I will post the 1880 maps, so you can see what railroads are making money and all the other good stuff.
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Oct 15, 2012 23:51
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And reading that second article, it looks like they're putting in culverts instead of building proper bridges now, ugh, that would have been gorgeous, and not an environmental monstrosity.
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Oct 16, 2012 00:01
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Cichlidae posted:That is some awesome demo porn! I'm amazed they didn't catch the fly in the ointment in design; borings are incredibly cheap, so there's no reason not to put four under each foundation. Do you have any more information about the design flaws? It must've been a REALLY big deal if it didn't get caught until the bridges were almost complete. I really have no idea how they missed it. Its the Coast Range, its wet, its always moving. Its common knowledge in the entire area. I have to assume that some geotechs were brought in to do pre-project surveys. How they could miss it? Who knows. The initial project was apparently Oregon's (or just ODOT's?, I'm not fully sure) first big Design-Build project. That is, the contractor that won the project not only built it but designed it, too. With it being in house, maybe there were cut corners, lack of oversight? I don't know, but there was a big lawsuit about it. Once the problem was noticed monitoring equipment was rushed in all over the site. Piezometers, laser level meter..things, all kinds of test wells, you name it.  Little pads like this were scattered everywhere across the site. Once you have that kind of investment in a project its understandable that you'd want to try to save it. Hence all of the equipment and 2 years of dead time while they scratched their heads. FISHMANPET posted:And reading that second article, it looks like they're putting in culverts instead of building proper bridges now, ugh, that would have been gorgeous, and not an environmental monstrosity. Yeah, they'll be filling in all of those valleys that would've had bridges in them. They're going to need immense volumes of materiel.
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Oct 16, 2012 00:06
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Welcome to 1880. Remember that big stock market crash 7 years ago? Remember how we've been in a depression since then? Yeah, people are calling it the Great Depression. It's that big. Basically, anything railroad-related has gone downhill, big time. I mean, just have a look at the map.   All of those green+black lines are railroads in debt. Most railroad traffic has consolidated into a few main lines through the state, while many lines - even those that cut off a lot of travel time - have been all but abandoned. This leaves cities like Chenchester without any service. What happens to these railroads is up to you. They can be subsidized by other, more profitable lines. You can sell them to a larger line to facilitate this. You can just as easily abandon the line. The long and the short of it is, though, that those green lines aren't expected to make any green in the long run. Even despite the Great Depression, though, there are new cities this decade. In fact, for the first time in history, over 50% of Nutmeg's population resides in a city. Pretty impressive when you consider they only take up a tiny percentage of the land! And more good news: the fields of electricity and pharmaceuticals are booming. This means excellent growth is in store for Opiantic, Bridgefield, and Waterbridge. Resort cities haven't done so well; people simply aren't spending their money like they used to. That will probably recover next decade, though. So, let's meet those new cities: Colhampton grew at the junction of two moderately popular rail lines, basically a farm town seeking to snag some change from tourists bound for Lake Oliver. The potential collapse of these rail lines has cast serious doubts on Colhampton's long-term viability. West Hartshire is, simply put, a company town for miners working in the quarry. Its fortunes depend entirely on the quarry's output, which could be in jeopardy if its owners don't buy up the rail line into Hartshire. Dersonia, on the other hand, is nowhere near a rail line. Rather than producing goods, the town was fortunate enough to be the headquarters of a corporation pioneering the electricity field. What do we do now? You can start by voting on which three cities we will improve this turn. Additionally, if you own one of those rail lines in green (and make sure be specific; the names change way too often), tell me whether you're going to sell, subsidize, or abandon. Any rails not accounted for by 1890 will be abandoned by default. PSD: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0ByQzqtNM0WuFanpaMnM1R1NuMDg Previous post with the primary manufacture of each city: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3177805&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=168#post408442129
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Oct 16, 2012 00:45
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Not being a railway oewner I would still suggest keeping the line from Middleport through Meridian to Hartshire open even if the New Sanctum Meridian direct line goes defunct. We should also try to save one of the western cross state lines. My vote there would be for the Chenchester line going past the quarry. City wise my votes go for Fairport, Middleport-Meridian and Waterbridge. [e]Those demolition etc pictures were drat nice, thanks for those. Thanks also for the Built in Britain link posted earlier. So far I prefer the second episode to the first since it seems to talk less about "spend money" and "YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!" and instead really focus on the various projects. The bit where they thread a bridge for the Eurostar through a motorway bridge at around the 6 minute mark of the second episode is rather impressive. Munin fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 01:24
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I've still got a single profitable railroad! And only my resort city still has practical transit going to it.  Are all the forests gone, or is it just no longer practical to render them?
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Oct 16, 2012 01:30
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SlothfulCobra posted:I've still got a single profitable railroad! The forests reached their minimum last decade and are slowly re-growing everywhere. Things were getting cluttered, so I figured it was best to leave them out.
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Oct 16, 2012 01:31
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I thought so. Anyways, I'm voting for Waterbridge, Fairport, and New Dublin. Could you explain more about our railroad options? If one railroad sticks it out while the others around it are abandoned, is there a chance that it'll turn a profit again?
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Oct 16, 2012 01:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:I thought so. Anyways, I'm voting for Waterbridge, Fairport, and New Dublin. Yes! Additionally, if you feel that a city is about to undergo explosive growth, you can bank on that extra growth supporting a rail line. In such a case, though, your best bet might be holding onto the ROW (without service) until that growth has happened, and then selling it to the highest bidder and retiring to Orangewich.
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Oct 16, 2012 01:52
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SlothfulCobra posted:I've still got a single profitable railroad! Would you like to merge with the NS now? You can take control of the line but must keep the NS name and share J.P Martin's vision of holding a complete monopoly over all modes of Nutmeg's transportation. I will resign as chief propagandi... uh, i mean beat reporter for the railroad. Instead I will sleep in the lazarus chamber at my Orangewich castle until the time of the horseless carriage, only awakening to suggest sensible solutions to 19th century problems and denounce Free Silver. Also Jay Mould and James Risk left ZombieApostate bankrupt and destitute. ZombieApostate then shot Risk dead in the street. Luckily, the trial was in Hartshire and not Salvation or New Cork and he was given a light sentence for manslaughter. (The story involves floozies and lesbians but I need to get actual work done  ) Mould meanwhile has been busy out east, shooting Indians from his trains on the Union Atlantic which he has been double charging the government to construct lines that dont exist. While riding on horseback whipping railroad workers during a strike, he catches Super Dysentery and dies.
Ron Pauls Friend fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 02:53
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Cichildae, before I drop the axe on them, I have to know. Did the Salvation-Chenchester route and Chenchester-Winton route accomplish anything, anything at all? Was any freight moved along that corridor? Did any passengers at all ride those delightful trains? Was it worth it, in the end, if only for those few people?
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Oct 16, 2012 06:46
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Ron Pauls Friend posted:^^^^^It defeated Godzilla in that terrible movie. Ask Me About Being A Traffic Engineer: All you had to do was bring Cornelius Vanderbilt into the conversation
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Oct 16, 2012 06:54
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Question, would it be possible to start up newfangled electric lines, in this era of Direct and Alternating current, or are we still not advanced yet for that. If so, I may have a way to ensure future slow service on these.. not so profitable lines.
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Oct 16, 2012 19:34
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Looks like there were some basic trams in the 1880s (the first two were in Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross-Lichterfelde_Tramway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volk's_Electric_Railway) but mainline electrification wasn't done until 1895 in Baltimore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volk's_Electric_Railway) though that was only through a tunnel, they just had an electric engine to push the steam train through the tunnel. It looks like the New Haven - New York line was electrified in 1907, with some stuff in New Jersey happening around 1906, and LIRR in 1907 (but electrification into Penn Station wasn't until 1910). The big guys started in the 1910s it looks like (PRR started in 1915, New York Central in 1913). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_electrification_in_the_United_States
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Oct 16, 2012 20:02
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FISHMANPET posted:(but electrification into Penn Station wasn't until 1910). Mostly because there was no North River Tunnels, East River Tunnels, or Penn Station New York for them to go to until 1910 (well they were under construction from about 1903 and always planned to be electrified since they couldn't figure out a way to safely ventilate steam locomotives in the tunnels needed  )Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 20:12
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Cichlidae posted:Welcome to 1880. Hmm. Decisions decisions. I'm not going to sell or outright abandon any lines. However, I will dramatically reduce usage on unprofitable routes. For clarity, the following routes will have basic maintenance performed on the tracks, so that they're not put into disrepair - E. Hartshire to Atmington - E. Hartshire to New Hartshire - Farmingham to Atmington - New Hartshire to Balkany Passenger travel along these lines will be dramatically reduced, to become more in line with the number of travelers that are willing to pay. Freight rolling stock will be reduced, and redistributed to lines that are profitable and require equipment, or sold off. Additionally, we'll keep our boys busy by adding a spur between Dersonia and Waterbridge. How in the world are they getting their goods to their factories without rail service? How are their business men travelling to meetings? Horse and carriage? Absurd! We will, of course, seek a subsidy from Dersonia for this favor. Also, anyone who got "Squeezed out" in that unfortunate merger business can feel free to pick lines from their old territories that they'd like to make decisions on. I'm a pretend tycoon but I'm not going to take all the fun. For cities to optimize, West Sanctum + New Sanctum, New Dublin, and Fairport are my votes. Volmarias fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 20:55
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I don't even know if I'm still in control of my lines. If I am, I want to save: 1) The most optimal route from New Sanctum to New Cork 2) New Sanctum to Hartshire/E. Hartshire 3) If my industrial lines in New Sanctum and Hartshire are still useful, try to make the industries pay to keep them in place Right now 1 and 2 represent the best and most direct route between New Cork and Hartshire, at least until Waterbridge and Fairport get fixed up. If it means merger with a more profitable company to prop them up, so be it.
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Oct 16, 2012 21:31
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Who cares about all these big railroads and towns and this so called "depression", the real question is HOW IS MY QUARRY DOING!??!
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Oct 16, 2012 21:34
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i barely GNU her! posted:I don't even know if I'm still in control of my lines. If I am, I want to save: Yeah you still have control. I would suggest keeping a way to Opiantic open too. Also I would abandon the line from New Sanctum to Meridian on the east side of the Fukov and operate the line north of there to serve local traffic. I guess Millfort is screwed I'd think that the line from New Cork to New Sanctum is the most profitable by far. Im just saying the NCL and the NS would make a great team. Consolidation is the future! Ron Pauls Friend fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 21:54
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IMO we should try to maintain access to as many cities as possible, hence perhaps having a merger or something to keep the station in Millfort operational.
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Oct 16, 2012 22:03
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Millfort is served, just not well. New Dublin, Fairport, and Waterbridge should be worked on imo.
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Oct 16, 2012 22:16
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Hedera Helix posted:Was it worth it, in the end, if only for those few people? Oh yes! There were no long-range passenger trips through the corridor, but Chenchester, during its period of growth, needed new workers and a way to export its silk products. Baronjutter posted:Who cares about all these big railroads and towns and this so called "depression", the real question is HOW IS MY QUARRY DOING!??! Tarmac is a growing trend, and people want good traprock for tarmac. What I'm trying to say is, it can only go up, Up, UP! As for the city voting, I'll choose the #1 vote so far after dinner tonight, and post the map soon after. Be prepared! You can still keep making railroad decisions until the end of the decade, so don't rush those.
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Oct 16, 2012 22:42
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Let's do Middleport-Meridian and Waterbridge.
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Oct 16, 2012 23:07
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I propose converting all these large unprofitable heavy lines, into a cheap interurban service. With this newfangled electric motor technology, we could run them as a cheap way of keeping the tracks and lines working, and have a way to transport people into the existing tram networks. Also, we could finally rid our cities of the menace of horses, once and for all.
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Oct 16, 2012 23:25
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Ryand-Smith posted:I propose converting all these large unprofitable heavy lines, into a cheap interurban service. With this newfangled electric motor technology, we could run them as a cheap way of keeping the tracks and lines working, and have a way to transport people into the existing tram networks. Also, we could finally rid our cities of the menace of horses, once and for all. Electricity? I heard it can kill even an Elephant. 
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Oct 17, 2012 00:05
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Ryand-Smith posted:I propose converting all these large unprofitable heavy lines, into a cheap interurban service. With this newfangled electric motor technology, we could run them as a cheap way of keeping the tracks and lines working, and have a way to transport people into the existing tram networks. Also, we could finally rid our cities of the menace of horses, once and for all. That's not going to happen until at least the 1940s. The first horse-free road won't be built until 1908. Munin posted:Electricity? I heard it can kill even an Elephant. No, that is only the dangerous and wasteful alternating current, conceived by the madman Tesla! Direct current is much safer. ----- City votes so far: 4 for Fairport and Waterbridge, 3 for New Dublin, 2 for Middleport/Meridian, 1 for West/New Sanctum. Next vote between Fairport and Waterbridge wins, so if you haven't selected your cities yet, now is the time! Edit: C'mon guys, one vote. Cichlidae fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Oct 17, 2012 |
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Oct 17, 2012 00:05
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I vote for Fairport, Waterbridge, and New Dublin.
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Oct 17, 2012 04:01
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I vote for Fairport.Cichlidae posted:Oh yes! There were no long-range passenger trips through the corridor, but  Is there much difference between abandoning track and railbanking it, in terms of (imaginary) money spent? If holding onto ROW isn't too expensive, the K&W division of whatever alphabet soup it's a part of would like to railbank the Salvation-Chenchester connection, for a future when people see the value of swift, direct, long-distance train travel. The Chenchester-Winton connection can be abandoned. The NCL will be taking over the lower rail bridge in New Sanctum, as well as West Sanctum's lower industrial stub. If its current owner is willing to sell, the NLC will also be happy to purchase New Sanctum's industrial stub in the south of the city for pennies on the dollar. Ron Pauls Friend posted:I'd think that the line from New Cork to New Sanctum is the most profitable by far. Im just saying the NCL and the NS would make a great team. Are you sure you're not thinking of a different railroad, by chance? Hedera Helix fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Oct 17, 2012 |
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Oct 17, 2012 04:03
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You can't just convert a railroad to a normal road anyways, can you? Even without cars to plan for, a railroad is a totally different beast from a normal road.
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Oct 17, 2012 04:13
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SlothfulCobra posted:You can't just convert a railroad to a normal road anyways, can you? Even without cars to plan for, a railroad is a totally different beast from a normal road. Plenty of railroads that failed in the late 19th century were reused for road routes shortly after. With the rails ripped off and sold off the rights of way were usually quite easily made into carriage routes, though usually there wouldn't be long distance travel over them.
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Oct 17, 2012 05:08
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