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It was more or less explicitly explained during the Rose infodump on the meteor. The meteors have the same origin (A2 and B1), yet simultaneously exist in both A's and B's as well. Such a thing can only happen if they are effectively duplicated. This means there will be no ectobiology session in the current game. John made everyone already in B1, so it doesn't need to happen again.
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Oct 16, 2012 17:14
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Explanation starts here.quote:ROSE: But they weren't flung through portals in their own session, nor will they be created there.
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Oct 16, 2012 17:17
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Eridan killed a bunch of people because he was convinced their plans to stop Jack were futile and selling them out to save his own skin was his best chance at surviving. Sacrificing your friends to save yourself certainly is reprehensible, but it's not surprising that many people view being a creepy molester as worse.
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Oct 16, 2012 17:23
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As regards the trolls specifically, it's explicitly stated here and here that Karkat made two sets of twelve, which then went back through the portals and became the players and their ancestors in both the A1 and A2 sessions. (It's actually not entirely clear how a scratch occurring at the end of the A1 session can influence the A2 session's portals, but I guess that's part of what makes it such a weird glitch.)
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Oct 16, 2012 17:25
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fatherdog posted:Eridan killed a bunch of people because he was convinced their plans to stop Jack were futile and selling them out to save his own skin was his best chance at surviving. Sacrificing your friends to save yourself certainly is reprehensible, but it's not surprising that many people view being a creepy molester as worse. The difference to me is that Eridan was a harmless (by troll standards) mopey loser right up until he snapped, whereas Cronus is a full-time abuser even when he's not under the pressure of looming imminent death. There is a difference between someone who will do something terrible when they're desperate, and someone who does habitually terrible things all the time.
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Oct 16, 2012 17:31
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Nate RFB posted:It was more or less explicitly explained during the Rose infodump on the meteor. The meteors have the same origin (A2 and B1), yet simultaneously exist in both A's and B's as well. Such a thing can only happen if they are effectively duplicated. Huh. I never caught on to the fact that the portals were the same. I thought that they were being sent to the different sessions, not different time periods. Though it makes sense now that the portals would be duplicated.
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Oct 16, 2012 17:42
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Another point is that of the two people Eridan killed, one got better and the other didn't seem to mind very much. (And the matriorb problem is both pretty abstract and, now, set up as having a potential solution.) He was also immediately halved for his misdeeds, whereas there's a sense that Cronus has been doing what he does nonstop for as long as any of the others have known him and is too dead to be stopped (for long) by a chainsaw to the torso. It's been pointed out a few posts up, but a lot of people know someone vaguely like him that they can't just saw in half, much as they might want to.
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Oct 16, 2012 17:42
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Eridan was also pretty much acting totally in line with his horrible culture, killed two people after they drew down on him and were about to mess his poo poo up, blinded the third in the context of a fight they both agreed to have, and left an innocent bystander alone. Dude's a bastard, assuredly, but in the worst of circumstances and even then hardly an indiscriminate one. Cronus, meanwhile, is atrocious at all points in the day. What I don't get is how Gamzee gets as much of a pass as he does.
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Oct 16, 2012 18:06
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I always thought with Eridan and Cronus, that the principle of something being closer to reality means that it ends up being freakier. I don't know if there's a name for it, but there likely is. A creepy molester hits much closer to home than what Eridan did.
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Oct 16, 2012 18:06
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Cabbit posted:What I don't get is how Gamzee gets as much of a pass as he does. Clowns are funny. Everyone likes a clown.
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Oct 16, 2012 18:08
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Cabbit posted:What I don't get is how Gamzee gets as much of a pass as he does. When Gamzee is in Murder Mode, he is pretty clearly a complete, inhuman monster. A non-psychotic reader can't relate to him in any meaningful way when he's like that, so he is accepted as being just a monster. The Amporas are both humanized in recognizable ways. It's just that everything human about them is either pathetic or despicable. A sane person can relate to them, but only negatively. At least that's how it comes across to me. Also, as has been mentioned Gamzee is actually funny.
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Oct 16, 2012 18:35
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I always felt that as gamzee was a rage player, him going berserk was something that people could understand. And yeah, Eridan was a horrible bastard. That being said, culturally his actions made sense. Just like when Vriska killed Tavros. But, just like with Tavros' death, those actions were not received by the others (or even the killer in Vriska's case) as acceptable. I would go into the cultural expectations of their race, and how age and what not enter into it, but I'm not going to try and touch crazy alien nonsense.
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Oct 16, 2012 18:45
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Sprite141 posted:I always felt that as gamzee was a rage player, him going berserk was something that people could understand. Gamzee's Murder Mode isn't really comparable to a human fit of anger. His episode is a long, persistent, calculating attempt to just inflict as much death and suffering as he possibly can. It's an insane nihilistic transformation into, as he said, a totally inhuman monster with no relateable motives.
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Oct 16, 2012 18:58
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It occurs to me that there is something of a precedent, in popular culture and genre fiction, for villainous clowns who steal and kill but never get any kind of appropriate punishment for their crimes. In fact, sometimes these characters are just as popular as the heroes they oppose, who inevitably seem kind of dour and humorless by comparison. Maybe you just need to lighten up? I guess what I'm trying to say is, "why so ser- 
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Oct 16, 2012 19:02
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Sprite141 posted:I always felt that as gamzee was a rage player, him going berserk was something that people could understand. I've gone into this before, but it seems like most of the Alternia players rebelled or went against the grain of their society in some fashion. Those that pulled away from it the most generally survived and thrived, those who didn't manage much died. Feferi's the only real exception, but who remembers Feferi anyway.
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Oct 16, 2012 19:02
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Nate RFB posted:It was more or less explicitly explained during the Rose infodump on the meteor. The meteors have the same origin (A2 and B1), yet simultaneously exist in both A's and B's as well. Such a thing can only happen if they are effectively duplicated. Y'know, who says there won't be an ectobiology session? What if Jake makes slimebabies, and they're the oldkids and newkids and they go off into portals? We're assuming it's ruled out because we have familiar, forward-facing duplication. Single origin, multiple destination. Other than violating common sense, why not multiple origins? What if this time Roxy and Dirk are Dave and Rose's slimekids, and Jake and Jane have John and Rose for slimeparents? E: And before people forget, we're getting a nice, shiny, evolved battlefield delivered soon. Factory Factory fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 19:31
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Cabbit posted:I've gone into this before, but it seems like most of the Alternia players rebelled or went against the grain of their society in some fashion. Those that pulled away from it the most generally survived and thrived, those who didn't manage much died. Gamzee's become the mirthful messiahs himself and he's thriving pretty strongly now, but he's moved into monster antagonist territory anyway and only isn't an explicit enemy of the group because of individual group dynamics (Karkat blames himself, Terezi's got self-doubt about the whole killing for justice thing, Sollux and Aradia are weird and don't seem to give a poo poo about their problems, Rose and Dave have only really heard about his actions in abstract). I guess people don't feel the need to bust the chops of characters who are clearly treated by the narrative as Bad Dudes, because of course they're like that that's the whole point. If the story turned around and made Gamzee an anti-hero or reintegrated him into the group people would probably be more bothered by him, but since he absconded and then did that creep-show bit with Kurloz he's getting the right amount of villain framing.
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Oct 16, 2012 19:36
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Factory Factory posted:Y'know, who says there won't be an ectobiology session? What if Jake makes slimebabies, and they're the oldkids and newkids and they go off into portals? We're assuming it's ruled out because we have familiar, forward-facing duplication. Single origin, multiple destination. Other than violating common sense, why not multiple origins? This wouldn't jive with the stuff that's already gone on with the alpha kids, though. Roxy and Dirk's silly conversation about theoretical children they might have, Dave and Rose getting a distinct "woah hey thats mom/bro" vibe from them, etcetera. It would introduce a weird, pointless complication for something we've already seen wholly explained which makes sense, and then instead turn it into a thing that contradicts itself and makes no sense. The trolls had a single ectobiology session and Karkat did it. The kids had a single ectobiology session and John did it. There's no reason to assume otherwise unless there's some sort of story reason why having another set of kids would make sense. Plus combining Dave and Rose wouldn't make Roxy and Dirk, genetics do not work that way.
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Oct 16, 2012 19:39
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Factory Factory posted:Y'know, who says there won't be an ectobiology session? What if Jake makes slimebabies, and they're the oldkids and newkids and they go off into portals? We're assuming it's ruled out because we have familiar, forward-facing duplication. Single origin, multiple destination. Other than violating common sense, why not multiple origins? The Sassacre text Poppop Egbert grew up with could only have come from John's ectobiology session because it had a message from Nannasprite, remember?
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Oct 16, 2012 19:40
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God, you guys have no clue how much I hope this scene continues on for longer without a cut, and specifically with more lovers' spat stuff, as much as I don't care for it. A constant theme I have been sick to poo poo of seeing for the past two years has been that the mere existence of Tavros is an abhorrent obstacle to enjoyment of the story by people who think they personally identified with Vriska or obsessed about her, back at the height of her villainy. Shipper or just plain crazy, the people who legitimately and irrationally hated Tavros have been a vocal pile of locusts for the past two years, and they are finally starting to blow and turn on each other in way that Vriska's death somehow didn't do. I think the vast majority of those people left here a long time ago, but the reactions on tumblr and the mspa forums are hilarious, and I take great schadenfreude in their misery at reading a fictional webcomic.
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Oct 16, 2012 19:41
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What Eridan did wasn't genocide any more than abortion is murder. What he did is still pretty drat bad, in terms of destroying potential, but the only people he killed were the three he fought. In self defense. And two of them got better. None of this is to say Eridan's an okay guy. He's poo poo. His plan to help Jack would have probably killed all his friends anyway (and him too, to be honest). And even if it isn't genocide, destroying the matriorb was a crime that we don't really have the capacity to intuitively understand. But what it really comes down to is that, while Eridan is a pretty bad person- selfish and dickish- his crimes are still mostly a result of circumstance. He had the opportunity to do really bad things. Cronus didn't have those opportunities. I can easily imagine he would have taken them, or done worse, if he did had the chance. All we have is Cronus' personality, and even compared to Eridan's pretty bad self-pitying selfish personality, Cronus' absolutely eclipses Edridan in all things loathsome. The guy sexually abused a mentally disabled person. That's flown right past, "not cool man," straight into  . The selfishness of the act, contrast with the harm of the act; the power and understanding of the perpetrator, contrast with the vulnerability and lack of understanding of the victim... it's almost absurd how terrible it is. Except it's not absurd at all- it happens. It could be real.And what makes it even worse isn't that he's just a selfish sociopath who doesn't care he's causing suffering, but that he has such an easy to understand self deception that disturbingly perverts the world into one in which he, the monster, is the victim. One moment he's casually sexually abusing a disabled person, and the next moment he's flipping out, seriously angrily abusive towards him, blaming the poor guy for something that Cronus himself is responsible for, without the remotest modicum of sympathy for anyone who's not himself the whole time. In his view, he's the reasonable one, and they're all "damaged" and what's more they're being infuriatingly sympathetic towards "damaged" people. In fact, it's only damaged people get any sympathy- from Cronus' perspective, the problem with the world is sympathy. People are just too drat sympathetic towards people with issues, and that's why they don't like someone so normal and well adjusted as Cronus. That's how loving unsympathetic this guy is. He is literally a personified anathema to sympathy. And honestly, that's why I "love" the guy. There's a comedy to how far past 11 the "horrible" meter has been dialed on this guy. I could not stop laughing in disbelief each time a new facet to his utterly repugnant nature was revealed. The dude is a work of art. Horrible, horrible art.
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Oct 16, 2012 20:16
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I want to know how Gamzee has gone two years on that meteor without Kanaya finding him. Also, gently caress Kanaya.
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Oct 16, 2012 20:21
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Here's a cool article about Homestuck that features interviews with Radiation and Xamag.
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Oct 16, 2012 20:23
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Hamiltonian Bicycle posted:(And the matriorb problem is both pretty abstract and, now, set up as having a potential solution.) There's been too much poo poo going on lately; remind me what this was again?
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Oct 16, 2012 20:24
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I want to know how Gamzee has gone two years on that meteor without Kanaya finding him. Time travel and/or clown magic. Renaissance Robot posted:There's been too much poo poo going on lately; remind me what this was again? http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006025 It somehow has to be de-alchemized from a hat using a potted plant and a copy of Charles Dutton's Dream Bubbles. Sollux pulled off something similar to make John's jetpack, but he's mostly out of the picture these days. Walliard fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 16, 2012 |
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Oct 16, 2012 20:28
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Fister Roboto posted:Seriously look at this thing. That's an amphora. Phonetically, the ph is pronounced like an f, so it'd sound different from Ampora.
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Oct 16, 2012 20:29
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Renaissance Robot posted:There's been too much poo poo going on lately; remind me what this was again? Way back in A6I1, for example: quote:KANAYA: The Orb Was Destroyed Even before that, this page suggested that the matriorb might be replacable using alchemy. None of this is a guarantee, but it does quite explicitly and deliberately point out that the door hasn't been closed on that possibility.
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Oct 16, 2012 20:31
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Eiba posted:What Eridan did wasn't genocide any more than abortion is murder. What he did is still pretty drat bad, in terms of destroying potential, but the only people he killed were the three he fought. In self defense. And two of them got better. I think it's also worth noting that Eridan grew up in a hideously violent society and had to kill things out of necessity all the time, and went loco when it seemed like all was lost and his life was at stake, vs. Cronus who grew up in a utopian society (in a position of privilege within that society, even) and has generally had it super easy his entire life. Eridan of course is still a big fishy douche but Cronus is a big fishy douche without having any of the extenuating circumstances that lead Eridan to do those awful things.
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Oct 16, 2012 20:33
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I want to know how Gamzee has gone two years on that meteor without Kanaya finding him. He painted himself in Equius's void blood to hide his location. [/crazy theory] SteelAngel2000 posted:Also, gently caress Kanaya. Rude 
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Oct 16, 2012 20:35
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Dolash posted:Gamzee's become the mirthful messiahs himself and he's thriving pretty strongly now, but he's moved into monster antagonist territory anyway and only isn't an explicit enemy of the group because of individual group dynamics (Karkat blames himself, Terezi's got self-doubt about the whole killing for justice thing, Sollux and Aradia are weird and don't seem to give a poo poo about their problems, Rose and Dave have only really heard about his actions in abstract). He was pretty atypical for his place in troll society up until the point that the whole housecleaning took place-- that's part of the reason why Equius so D--> STRONGly disapproves of him. While there was a troll society, he was a poor fit.
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Oct 16, 2012 20:48
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SteelAngel2000 posted:Also, gently caress Kanaya. Now you hosed up. You have hosed up now. kanaya kinda bugs me because she really feels like she hasn't changed much at all over the course of the story, aside from being more violent lately.
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Oct 16, 2012 20:56
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Seoinin posted:Now you hosed up. You have hosed up now. By the time John meets her, he won't want to make a Vampire's Kiss reference.  There was serious one-liner potential there.
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Oct 16, 2012 21:02
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Kanaya seems to be getting set up for her actual character development tying into the whole Matriorb thing and, possibly, whatever's going on with her and Rose. She hasn't really had a lot happen yet other than get murdered, become a vampire, and kick a ton of rear end- which is admittedly more than lots of the other trolls have done- but we've got a lot of setup for her that's sure to pay off later on. I'm interested to see where she goes, but she's definitely not the focus right now.
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Oct 16, 2012 21:03
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I want to know how Gamzee has gone two years on that meteor without Kanaya finding him. Miracles. The answer is miracles. And no, gently caress YOU, Kanaya is stone cold awesome. 
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Oct 16, 2012 21:19
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I like Kanaya but lately (i.e. during all of her appearances in Act 6 and its intermissions) she hasn't done much besides get confused and/or flustered by other people's words and actions over and over, which has been a little frustrating to watch. Technically Gamzee should have been the one to be the fifth wheel, what with being tucked away in some compartment somewhere. I mean I suppose she might have more to contribute during this intermission, but yeah, it really seems like that'll have to wait until there's some new information about the matriorb situation, or something.
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Oct 16, 2012 21:21
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SteelAngel2000 posted:I want to know how Gamzee has gone two years on that meteor without Kanaya finding him. Would you want to find Gamzee?
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Oct 16, 2012 21:25
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Renaissance Robot posted:Would you want to find Gamzee? Well she kinda wants to cut him a little bit. Leave him alone Kanaya geez. Karkat fixed him okay.
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Oct 16, 2012 21:28
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SteelAngel2000 posted:Well she kinda wants to cut him a little bit. Kanaya just knows what the fans want, and the fans want revenge for Gamzee killing the best troll. t t
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Oct 16, 2012 23:05
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Ammat The Ankh posted:Here's a cool article about Homestuck that features interviews with Radiation and Xamag.
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Oct 16, 2012 23:05
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Roger Explosion posted:This is a cool article that everyone should read. I do wish the author wouldn't put spoiler pictures in an article where he's introducing the comic, though. Eh, no one new to Homestuck would realize any of those pics are spoilers.
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