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NTT posted:Exactly. Cloud starts off as just a regular dude who is in it for nothing but money, but there are several subtle hints that something's not quite right; the white screens and the accompianing creepy ZHZHZHHZHZ sound that goes with it, his occasional headaches causing him to collapse. When Aeris dies his memories of when he failed to protect Tifa as a kid come back to haunt him, which is where he starts really coming mentally unstable. Later on Hojo (falsely) tells him that he's a failed clone experiment, which basically causes Cloud to break down completely, having no self esteem already and feeling very unworthy to live. There's an interesting juxtaposition here because ANOTHER very similar person also took information the wrong way; Sephiroth in the Shinra Manor basement. Both, after hearing/reading the information, basically lose their loving minds. Well in the developers defense clouds external attitude doesnt really change that much. First he was a hardcore loner, and then as the game progresses he reaches a point where he openly says he trust his friends and does whats right/needs to be done. But that aside he still remained a stoic character. In dissidia he wasn't portrayed that badly if only because we see he does give more then a few salts of a damm about what happens to the other warriors of light. In AC though it was pretty dismal, he reverted back to a "i dont want to be around anyone, I just want to be alone" larpy crap.
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Oct 20, 2012 16:24
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xSousuke posted:Well in the developers defense clouds external attitude doesnt really change that much. First he was a hardcore loner, and then as the game progresses he reaches a point where he openly says he trust his friends and does whats right/needs to be done. But that aside he still remained a stoic character. In dissidia he wasn't portrayed that badly if only because we see he does give more then a few salts of a damm about what happens to the other warriors of light. In AC though it was pretty dismal, he reverted back to a "i dont want to be around anyone, I just want to be alone" larpy crap. I refuse to defend Dissidia because during his campaign I had to hear "I won't sleep well tonight" about 500 times. 
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Oct 20, 2012 16:26
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The White Dragon posted:I forget, isn't it just better to grind on the Power Peninsula? I swear I remember the enemies there being post-airship and poo poo. The enemies there are stronger because they're northern continent stuff but Giants are probably better xp/gold for their difficulty, or felt that way to me. The returns to town are going to be faster at the peninsula than the hall though so it probably works out better. in the long run. Admiral H. Curtiss posted:The PC version made a ton of changes, and most of them make it much harder to gently caress yourself. The in-battle speed can be increased to like double speed, which helps a lot. They also removed the leader limit, which means you can now have parties entirely made of leaders without generics. Which is much more fun! That's good then. Has the AI gotten any better at things like "hey group A is almost dead, group B has a shitload of healers.. they don't want to heal group A though" or is that still just as bad? I never had a problem with the generics but groups of nothing but leader units would make life easier, especially if turning off skills means you can learn Arcana abilities faster. If it's $5 or less it might be worth getting on PC then. Curse will still be bullshit but at least it looks like you have the option to (maybe) remove it from allies on the PC.
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Oct 20, 2012 16:37
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Evil Fluffy posted:That's good then. Has the AI gotten any better at things like "hey group A is almost dead, group B has a shitload of healers.. they don't want to heal group A though" or is that still just as bad? Not sure about that, but: quote:Allies now have the option to cure a friendly union's Curse status ailment via "Cure them even if it kills them!" command. This command is in the XBOX 360 version as well, but is only available when the union is Enthralled; it will not be available when the union is cursed.
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Oct 20, 2012 16:44
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Evil Fluffy posted:
It's slightly better in that you can do the "Cure them even if it kills them" option but I remember that on quite a number occasions when one union was dead and the another union that could revive them was practically standing on their bodies but wouldn't because the revive option wouldn't show up no matter what you did. It was one of the things that put me off the game, along with the crafting system.
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Oct 20, 2012 17:11
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Azran posted:Nah, the GBA remake. The GBA version is not very grindy at all; I'd say it's the least grindy, but I haven't played the PSP/iOS versions. Unless by 'grindy' you mean 'high encounter rate,' in which case you're almost right. I found FF3 NES to have a worse encounter rate in some areas (namely the 2 hour final dungeon with no save points).
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Oct 20, 2012 17:44
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Man, you guys weren't kidding about the party splits of 4 Heroes Of Light. These kids just look for excuses. It's bad enough that Jusqua has to single-handedly fight a hard boss when Yunita is within arms reach feeling sorry for herself, but directly after that she joins Jusqua's party. And then Jusqua splits off from her again to protect his honour or some nonsense. I'm enjoying the game, but I'm at the part where Brandt fell off the tree and it's a little frustrating.quote:Gigas Corridor The first time I played through Final Fantasy, I got stuck in the Gigas Corridor and got so frustrated I quit. I avoided the game for years because of the memory of that place haunted me.
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Oct 20, 2012 18:47
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The only reason Cloud continues to be the whiny emo gently caress he never was is the same reason otome games exist.
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Oct 20, 2012 18:57
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Captain Vittles posted:The GBA version is not very grindy at all; I'd say it's the least grindy, but I haven't played the PSP/iOS versions. Unless by 'grindy' you mean 'high encounter rate,' in which case you're almost right. I found FF3 NES to have a worse encounter rate in some areas (namely the 2 hour final dungeon with no save points). The GBA remake FF1 is stupidly easy. There's some challenge early on, but unless you're running all the time you'll soon be swimming in experience and gold. I've only finished that version once because of how boring it gets later on. Although that's the only version of FF1 I've finished, so...
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Oct 20, 2012 18:57
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NTT posted:I refuse to defend Dissidia because during his campaign I had to hear "I won't sleep well tonight" about 500 times. Did Cloud, like, eat Vincent? Because that's totally the sort of thing Vincent would say, not Cloud.
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Oct 20, 2012 19:09
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Schwartzcough posted:Did Cloud, like, eat Vincent? Because that's totally the sort of thing Vincent would say, not Cloud. Well at some point prior to Kingdom Hearts, they apparently became some sort of gestalt entity.  And proceeded to get depressed about not being able to have Freudian clashes with Sephiroth. Until he found him in Final Mix and was like "Oh man we're totally gonna clash together". And then they did the same thing in KH2, and parts of Dissidia. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 19:15
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Holy poo poo, he really did eat him.
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Oct 20, 2012 19:18
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Any easy way to raise your spirit in FFIX? I'm trying to max out Thievery, and I've been stealing at least once from every fight I've been in so far, I'm in Memoria, my spirit is at like 40, and I'm only doing like 5000 damage. On the other hand, I've just fought Hades for the first time. Does he have a reputation for being really hard? Because I beat him really quickly. Of course, his first attack sent Zidane into trance and I was able to Grand Lethal him four times for 9999, so that probably helped.
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Oct 20, 2012 19:42
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TL posted:On the other hand, I've just fought Hades for the first time. Does he have a reputation for being really hard? No idea on spirit I'm afraid, but Hades is an easy boss. Ozma's the one that gives people difficulty.
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Oct 20, 2012 20:21
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Azran posted:Nah, the GBA remake. VI is, if only because you screw yourself on stats if you level up with the wrong Espers equipped, but you need to have Espers equipped to learn spells, so what my OCD rear end has to do is go to the Veldt (in the WoB) or the Cultists' Tower (in the WoR) and fight hundreds upon hundreds of battles until all of my characters know every spell available to me, and then run around with Bismarck/Zona Seeker/Raiden/Valigarmanda equipped, swapping around every couple of levels so everyone ends up with about 100 magic and strength at level 99. It's not like this kind of play is necessary to complete the game, although it IS necessary to raise up 12 characters four at a time. Unless you're like me and you raise four characters to 99 with >100 magic/strength and then cheese the last dungeon by having two of them in two of your parties and no-encounter Mog in the third. Edit: Is this basically the catch-all JRPG thread now? I am trying to get into current-gen games. I'm trying to decide which Xbox 360 games are worth playing. I own Last Remnant, Infinite Undiscovery, Enchanted Arms, Nier, Blue Dragon, and Lost Odyssey and I can't decide which one to play in between Borderlands 2 DLC releases. I also plan to pick up Eternal Sonata and Resonance of Fate if I can find cheap used copies (my roommate is the manager of a used game store). Dross fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 20:25
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TL posted:Any easy way to raise your spirit in FFIX? I'm trying to max out Thievery, and I've been stealing at least once from every fight I've been in so far, I'm in Memoria, my spirit is at like 40, and I'm only doing like 5000 damage. Thievery's based on Speed, for one  Spirit is related to how quickly your Trance bar charges and how many actions you can take before leaving it.Take a look at the core stat bonuses your equipment gives you. Like, the Glass Buckle I think gives +1Spr, +1Mag. Every time you level up, each of those bonuses gets added to a hidden tally. Every time each individual stat's bonus points reach 32, you get a permanent +1 increase to that stat. This is all in addition to each character's regular stat progression. So let's say in total, all of your equipment gave you +6 Speed, +3 Strength, and +5 Spirit. Every six levels, your hidden tally for Speed would reach 32, giving you a permanent +1 Speed. Every seven levels, your hidden tally for Spirit would reach 32, giving you a permanent +1 Spirit, and every eleven levels, you'd get a permanent +1 Strength. There is overflow, so don't worry about micromanaging your 32s. Keep in mind that Speed and Spirit cap at 50, and everything else at 99 or 100, I don't think you can actually reach either. For Speed, you probably wanna equip poo poo like, what, Thief Gloves, Ninja Gear, and a Headband or Green Beret. I can't remember any Add-Ons that give +Speed off the top of my head, but those three alone will give you I think +5 or +6 Speed right there for leveling with. If you're already at 99, well, sorry brah. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 20:51
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In FF13 can you upgrade more than one weapon (per character) to "ultimate" status or do you have to pick just one? Or is this technically possible but requires embarrassing levels of grinding?
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Oct 20, 2012 21:19
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Ross posted:In FF13 can you upgrade more than one weapon (per character) to "ultimate" status or do you have to pick just one? Or is this technically possible but requires embarrassing levels of grinding? Getting a single weapon to level 3 requires embarrassing levels of grinding (though once you've got one you can get the rest somewhat easier). You could do that for every base weapon for every character if you really wanted to, but it's kinda pointless.
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Oct 20, 2012 21:27
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The one with a lot of pointless grinding.
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Oct 20, 2012 21:27
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Ross posted:In FF13 can you upgrade more than one weapon (per character) to "ultimate" status or do you have to pick just one? Or is this technically possible but requires embarrassing levels of grinding? You can get all character's ultimate weapons if you feel like farming Trapozedrons (hint: you don't, unless you get really lucky). There's, I believe, seven different versions per character of each ultimate weapon, with different stats and abilities. Use the ultimate weapon Trap trick, where you get one weapon to ultimate status, and break it down to get 4 Traps back; rinse, repeat.
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Oct 20, 2012 21:28
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That's 47 weapons. gently caress that noise.
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Oct 20, 2012 21:30
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Azure_Horizon posted:You can get all character's ultimate weapons if you feel like farming Trapozedrons (hint: you don't, unless you get really lucky). There's, I believe, seven different versions per character of each ultimate weapon, with different stats and abilities. Use the ultimate weapon Trap trick, where you get one weapon to ultimate status, and break it down to get 4 Traps back; rinse, repeat. Yeah this is the way to do it if you want to, although you should keep in mind that there's no real point. At least some of the weapons for each character are virtually useless, it takes a long time, and I don't even think you need to do this to get plat.
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Oct 20, 2012 21:32
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Fister Roboto posted:Are you playing the original NES version? If so, the way to success is running from every encounter on the way to the boss, snagging key loot when you can. It's a little like Dark Souls when you think about it. I was thinking about this. The idea of the Thief is that they're supposed to have a guaranteed run move right? But it doesn't work due to one of that game's many bugs, so they're effectively just a red mage with no spells. That doesn't seem like a big deal, because it wouldn't be a game changer in any other Final Fantasy. But in FF1 the dungeons are unusually non-linear and full of good treasure; they're supposed to be explored in a series of raids, where you explore and loot until you can't take any more attrition, escape to rest, and repeat, until there's nothing left to do but fight the boss. If the Thief worked as intended, your exploration would be a lot less limited. You could take the attrition at your own pace. A lot of dungeons have weapons or armor that work great against that particular dungeon's enemies. Using a thief would be sacrificing a combat advantage for a field advantage basically. So is it possible that the evolution of the whole series-- the linearity, the lack of gameplay outside combat, the increasing partitioning of the gameplay into individual encounters-- is due in part to RUN being bugged in the first game?
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Oct 20, 2012 23:09
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Pesky Splinter posted:That's 47 weapons. gently caress that noise. Luckily, the game kinda tells you which weapon evolutions are the best through the abilities learned from the predecessor weapons.
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Oct 20, 2012 23:23
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swamp waste posted:I was thinking about this. It's doubtful, given that FF2 and FF3 also had dungeons meant to be picked clean over the course of multiple trips through.
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Oct 21, 2012 00:10
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swamp waste posted:I was thinking about this. Isn't one of the bugs in FF1 NES that most/all bonus damage types from weapons (were/dragon/ice/flame/etc swords) don't actually work properly?
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Oct 21, 2012 01:54
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Am I being blind to some obvious fact, or White/Black/Time magic (excluding Math, for obvious reasons) becomes less and less powerful as you progress through FFT? I've got a White/Time Mage and a Summoner/Black Mage, and they have to deal with Charge times and Compatibility, while Agrias is just dealing over 200 damage at a decent range and 100%, and Ramza is hitting for 300 every turn. I know I've got a problem with my lack of planning in regards to the generics. At first, I focus on making a PA powerhouse, a MA powerhouse, and then a support mage plus a thief/poacher. Once I unlock the hybrid classes, I completely lose my focus and just end up using special characters.  As I said before when I asked some silly question about growths and multipliers, I'm playing the LFT patch for FFT. 
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Oct 21, 2012 02:12
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Evil Fluffy posted:Isn't one of the bugs in FF1 NES that most/all bonus damage types from weapons (were/dragon/ice/flame/etc swords) don't actually work properly? Yeah, and further unless somebody shows me non-anecdotal evidence otherwise I'm convinced they're wrong about the Thief's Run/Luck gimmick being broken in the NES version. If it is then running in that game is just amazingly easy and can be counted on either way.
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Oct 21, 2012 02:23
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I haven't played it in a long, long time but I am fairly confident that the Thief had a greater success rate of running but did not successfully run from literally every fight.
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Oct 21, 2012 02:39
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Ross posted:I haven't played it in a long, long time but I am fairly confident that the Thief had a greater success rate of running but did not successfully run from literally every fight. Yeah, the formula is correctly based on Luck, but the formula is, according to the FF Wikia page (which you may or may not want to visit, I hear some sketch poo poo about the Wikia service), Luck > (rand# 0 to (Level+15)) guarantees an escape. However, instead of the character's level, it loads the status effect marker of the character in the third slot for the front party member, or the character in the fourth slot for the second-in-line party member (a normal status being a value of 0). It sounds like it's basically impossible to run from the third or fourth slot, but it's not too tough in the front two slots, which your Thief/Ninja should be occupying anyway since he's an EVA tank. So it sounds like it's not so much that it's easier for a high-Luck Thief or Ninja to run, but pretty much anyone in the first two slots, and nigh impossible for anyone in the rear two. It's just easier for the Thief/Ninja to run in the early parts of the game when they hit 15+ Luck earlier than anyone else. Well, the Thief's whole gimmick is that he gets more hits than the Fighter and that his evade stat is supposed to counterbalance his lovely armor selection, which it doesn't do too bad of a job with. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Oct 21, 2012 |
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Oct 21, 2012 02:48
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Dross posted:Edit: Is this basically the catch-all JRPG thread now? Last Remnant and Lost Odyssey are worth playing, although you ideally want the PC version of Last Remnant. Blue Dragon is... well it's not terrible but it's not particularly great either. Infinite Undiscovery sucks. Nier is a bad game gameplay-wise but is definitely worth experiencing in some way or another. It's also not really an RPG. Eternal Sonata is alright and really beautiful, but the plot is pretty stupid and despite their attempts to mix the gameplay up it gets really really samey after a while. You might want to consider getting the PS3 version instead, it adds two characters and a couple scenes that make the plot make more sense, at the expense of noticably longer loading times. Resonance of Fate is really cool but very hard to grasp at first, worth getting but make sure you understand the battle system before actually doing anything story-wise. On your list, you're missing Tales of Vesperia, which is in my opinion the best JRPG on the 360, and both FF13 games which you probably know enough about anyway if you're posting in this thread, and Magna Carta 2 which I dunno if it's good or not. Oh and Star Ocean 4 but that game is terrible, don't get it.
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Oct 21, 2012 13:15
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Demon Souls and Dark Souls aren't really JRPGs but they are better than any modern gen JRPG so you should play those!
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Oct 21, 2012 13:25
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e: ^^^^ If going broad then Tactics Ogre is a must-play. The PSX version has a few things that the PSP version doesn't (most of which is game breakingly powerful, like Snapdragon), but the PSP version has a better class system it seems. Also consider the Etrian Oddessy games if you ant a first-person dungeon crawl RPG (aka Wizardry/Bard's Tale(no not the new, terrible, one) games). They're on the DS though. DQ 3-7 are also good. I thought 8 was mediocre but some like it. DQ9's co-op mechanics should be required by law for all party-based RPGs because it's pretty much perfect for that kind of game. Azran posted:Am I being blind to some obvious fact, or White/Black/Time magic (excluding Math, for obvious reasons) becomes less and less powerful as you progress through FFT? I've got a White/Time Mage and a Summoner/Black Mage, and they have to deal with Charge times and Compatibility, while Agrias is just dealing over 200 damage at a decent range and 100%, and Ramza is hitting for 300 every turn. Raise their faith to 90 or so and use magic-related gear. My White Mage could hit for 3-400 damage in her 30s with stuff like holy or flare, doing 999 to undead like in the swamp outside of Goug via Holy. Get as much gear as you can that boosts elements like Holy and you're set. Holy's easily my best attack because of this, which is a shame because I like Flare. The Magic Atk UP passive is always handy as well. To give some idea of the power difference, around level 41 I got Dark Knight on Ramza and farmed a Defender as soon as I had the option (you can get a treant by act 3). With his sword skills he was doing around 200-250 to targets. My lancer with a Holy Lance hit harder, 300-350 sometimes, using a Bracer. The White Mage was doing 400+ with Holy, wearing several Holy boosting items (and Magic ATK UP). Now she does usually 5-600 depending on the target's faith. Even my 13 faith Ninja takes around 100 damage when she hits every until on the map with Holy at the start of a fight (on her first turn, every single unit's CT is /4 in every fight, it's amazing). Give her a Chantage to make her immortal, and Move-MP Up+MP Switch before then to ensure she can survive her own attacks (assuming it goes off, it doesn't always). She's hands down the strongest unit I've had in a FFT game. Math Skill also bypasses reflect so nothing can stop her from hitting them with Holy, or Flare in the rare occasion where it's more useful against a target.
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Oct 21, 2012 15:31
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Evil Fluffy posted:wearing several Holy boosting items Multiple element-boosting items don't stack just fyi.
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Oct 21, 2012 16:07
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Is FFIVDS actually an enjoyable version? It quite appeals to me but all I hear about it is how much harder it is, which I take with a grain of salt because FF games tend to be easy anyway aside from some ridiculous bosses, and FFIV already had Easytype.
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Oct 21, 2012 17:20
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Personally, I loving hated it, but I didn't like the graphics style or even FF4 in general so YMMV. I will say that people are not exaggerating the difficulty. Its quite a hard game by JRPG standards.
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Oct 21, 2012 17:26
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Dr Snofeld posted:Is FFIVDS actually an enjoyable version? It quite appeals to me but all I hear about it is how much harder it is, which I take with a grain of salt because FF games tend to be easy anyway aside from some ridiculous bosses, and FFIV already had Easytype. It's my personal favorite version of the game, but it is indeed actually hard. If you're familiar with SMT-style difficulty (ie random encounters can wipe you if you're not careful, buffs/debuffs are basically required, etc) it's pretty similar to that. The Augment system basically lets you break the game in half by the end, but you'll basically need to follow a guide to get the most out of it.
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Oct 21, 2012 17:31
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I really like the expansions they did to the characterization. The original FFIV is a little barebones these days.
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Oct 21, 2012 17:32
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Dr Snofeld posted:Is FFIVDS actually an enjoyable version? It quite appeals to me but all I hear about it is how much harder it is, which I take with a grain of salt because FF games tend to be easy anyway aside from some ridiculous bosses, and FFIV already had Easytype. It's for FFIV fans. If you've already destroyed the original game, give it a shot. It's the opposite of FFIII DS, which seems to have been made for no one.
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Oct 21, 2012 17:37
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Never actually bothered with FFIV before.
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Oct 21, 2012 18:13
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