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LifeSizePotato posted:My girlfriend's mom sent her this, saying it points out "exactly why I am voting for Romney." Why yes, I'd much rather for America to be run as business organization that's making more money for rich people at the expense of the American worker than an organization that was trying to help the disadvantaged in this society.
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Oct 19, 2012 20:47
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Leon Einstein posted:Conservatives love talking about how Mitt Romney is a self-made man, when the reality is that Obama is the self-made man. I heard somebody saying "Obama took advantage of EVERY educational opportunity and social program out there growing up!" as it were a bad thing. Shouldn't that be a praise on our social programs and education programs? A bi-racial kid raised by a single mother grew up to be fabulously wealthy as well as the most powerful man in the world. I'm impressed. To be fair, the article doesn't seem to focus so much on Romney's personal bootstraps as much as how effective he was during his time at Bain, and how desperately we need a suit-wearing conference-call-making Man of Business in the Oval Office.
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Oct 19, 2012 20:50
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LifeSizePotato posted:That's actually a helpful tack with her mom and dad. Both are utterly convinced that the government and a country should be run like a business. In fact, I thought about going to the "Help DnD" thread looking for good rebuttals to that line of thinking because it's pretty ingrained in both of them and informs a lot of their political opinions. That argument comes down to "businesses are efficient because if they're not they will fail!" which is utterly ridiculous. Small businesses, sure, if they are wasteful or inefficient, might go under. But you have to throw that relationship out because government is so huge. Ok, so you have to compare government to a large business. Phrase it like this "have you ever used the services of a large business but became frustrated because they were slow or messed stuff up?" The answer is yes, because we all have. We've all used a private non-government large business that made us want to tear our eyeballs out (cable companies, phone companies, car companies, the list is endless). Also, if they work for a large company, you can guarantee the company is wasteful. Even small businesses waste money. Who hasn't seen a company they work for waste money they know could be better spent elsewhere? Everyone has! So large businesses aren't that incredibly efficient and they are wasteful, just like governments can be. Yes, in terms of requiring revenue to operate, a business is like a government. But governments don't have to generate a profit, and their end goals are completely different. Anyway, I hope I've given you some more ammo.
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Oct 19, 2012 20:51
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musclecoder posted:That argument comes down to "businesses are efficient because if they're not they will fail!" which is utterly ridiculous. Good stuff. Part of the problem is that the dad is a pretty successful president of a local real estate development company, so he probably doesn't see the discrepancy between him having command over his 20 or so employees and a business at the scale of the US government. I think he definitely sees "business" as some platonic form of efficiency when compared to government waste, which in his mind is all they do - waste his tax money. The mom is a low-information Fox News watcher, so she doesn't usually have any good rejoinders outside of what the dad tells her or Hannity soundbites. LifeSizePotato fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Oct 19, 2012 |
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Oct 19, 2012 20:59
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Sporadic posted:
The best part of the dog whistle is where it talks about Obama's scary Muslim international background and Romney's good Christian background and then says "but ignore all that."
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Oct 19, 2012 21:28
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LifeSizePotato posted:I guess what I was hoping to attack was the idea that Romney is a brilliant businessman and this experience will directly translate into him saving the country. I figured facts in these paragraphs: If you really want to do this you should pick 1 thing out of the whole deal and pin her down on it. If she refuses to do so it's probably best to just drop the whole deal. Specifically, things like: - How exactly is Mitt Romney a self-made man when he was born into a wealthy family and lived off of $300,000 of stock sales during college, while Barack Obama isn't? - Ask her to actually read up on what Bain did. Bain's acquisition of Kay-Bee toys is a textbook example of vulture capitalism. Here's a good link that talks about it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511407
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Oct 19, 2012 21:35
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Cakeequals posted:From my grandpa on Facebook again, anyone care to translate? The Michelle Obama thing is a massive  for me. Schools decide on their own to serve healthier lunches instead of fried grease, and the kids who don't want to eat a goddamn vegetable for once are heroes.In a just world, the fact that so many on the right wing are going after his family and making fat jokes about the first lady would turn people off.
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Oct 19, 2012 21:46
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LifeSizePotato posted:My girlfriend's mom sent her this, saying it points out "exactly why I am voting for Romney." Link them to this article: Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital. It's a very in-depth piece detailing exactly how Romney made his money and exactly how Bain worked, namely that they would just load a shitton of debt onto the companies they bought in order to pay themselves and then hightail it out of there after extracting as much money as they possibly could. And if they ever mention Romney saving the Olympics again, bring up the fact that Romney 'saved' the Olympics by securing over a billion dollars of federal funding, not by magically balancing its books or anything like that (note: that link is from the Washington Examiner, a right-wing newspaper, so you can actually link that story to people without getting it immediately dismisses as liberal bias). That alone puts his 'how much money has this candidate taken out of the government before running for office?' stat way, waaay higher than Obama's.
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Oct 20, 2012 01:38
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LifeSizePotato posted:To be fair, the article doesn't seem to focus so much on Romney's personal bootstraps as much as how effective he was during his time at Bain, and how desperately we need a suit-wearing conference-call-making Man of Business in the Oval Office. The deification of upper management types is one of the more nauseating characteristics of the far right. How many corporate CEOs managed to succeed solely on their hard work and creativity, i.e. Steve Jobs? I'm guessing the number is small. Also, how many would see their own mother raped by Los Zetas gang members if it meant a higher profit margin. I'm guessing the number is larger.
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Oct 20, 2012 04:23
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Polymerized Cum posted:The deification of upper management types is one of the more nauseating characteristics of the far right. How many corporate CEOs managed to succeed solely on their hard work and creativity, i.e. Steve Jobs? I'm guessing the number is small. I think it depends on exactly how you define success. I have friends who have started successful businesses with <50 employees, but they're successful in my eyes. If you're talking about multi-billion dollar endeavors... it's probably not that many. Then again - Steve Jobs didn't really "succeed solely on [his] hard word and creativity". He cribbed from an enormous number of people.
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Oct 20, 2012 04:42
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Cakeequals posted:From my grandpa on Facebook again, anyone care to translate? I'm not really certain how Hilary is responsible for the Arab Spring or indeed how the Arab Spring is a bad thing unless you're a racist who doesn't want brown people to self-determinate. The EPA has literally no control over gas prices. Like, even less than the president does. If he shouts "REGULATIONS" please ask him which ones and how the EPA was involved. The whole Benghazi coverup seems to be a kind of complicated issue and I'm not really sure what Rice's involvement was/why it even matters at all. That said, Hilary has taken responsibility for the attack so he may want to move that bullet point over a bit. JOBS????? I don't think you could make any headway here as Solis' record has apparently been pretty labor and union-friendly and I'm guessing whoever posted this is the kind of person who thinks treating CEO's like kings and completely deregulating the market is the way to prosperity and happiness. And notably we haven't had a terrorist attack since Obama took office. You know which party was in total control of the government when we had the worst terror attack in US history? Not even certain what their problem with Jarrett is and I don't even think they have one and were just tossing her in there for kicks. She heads a bunch of pretty boring offices. Oh my goodness, the First Lady is trying to do stuff to keep our kids from being atrocious fat-asses! In the future, if this person tells you you should live a healthier lifestyle, scream "SOCIALIST!" Eric Holder isn't a woman. Also, Fast and Furious was started under the Bush administration and I don't think Holder ever had any direct input on the program. Sebelius wasn't even closely involved with the creation of the PPACA, since it was a bill in Congress and all. Its pretty silly to put any of the blame for it on her.
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Oct 20, 2012 04:51
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1stGear posted:And notably we haven't had a terrorist attack since Obama took office. You know which party was in total control of the government when we had the worst terror attack in US history? It's pretty to not have a "terrorist attack" when you're unwilling to define what that is. We've lost countless soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, ostensibly to terrorist backed insurgents, under Obama's administration. If you mean we haven't been attacked on U.S. soil you're correct, but if you were a terrorist you could attack us and kill more people far easier in your own home. You'd also feel far more justified by this action. So yeah, we've not had a terrorist attack on U.S. soil, but we've certainly lost a ton of lives to attacks carried out by terrorists. quote:Eric Holder isn't a woman. Also, Fast and Furious was started under the Bush administration and I don't think Holder ever had any direct input on the program. Fast and Furious was started under the Obama administration. There was a similar program under Bush, but F&F itself was started in October of 2009. This program was the one that began the gun-walking operations, but F&F was started under Obama. If you honestly think a program of that magnitude was performed unilaterally by the ATF without input by the White House (be it Holder or Obama, himself) you're delusional. http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/sep/24/barack-obama/barack-obama-said-fast-and-furious-began-under-bus/ I'm not defending the image or its implications or assertions, but you need to make sure you're not turning into one of them and just contradicting everything they say on face. Make sure you have some sort of reason behind it.
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Oct 20, 2012 05:00
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"Eric Holder isn't a woman" is good enough for me. They were so desperate for real scandals they had to put a man on an image about women.
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Oct 20, 2012 05:46
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Polymerized Cum posted:The deification of upper management types is one of the more nauseating characteristics of the far right. How many corporate CEOs managed to succeed solely on their hard work and creativity, i.e. Steve Jobs? I'm guessing the number is small. I try not to get in to politic talk at work (DoD contractor, heavy on the Republicanisims) but one thing that comes up time and time again is this praising and worshipping of our upper management and CEO. There is quite literally nothing they do that I can't do better, and especially as of late, I've had to interrupt people and shoot down their prattling on about poo poo like the WARN act being ignored "is good for us". No it loving isn't. How Lockheed, Raytheon, GD, and all the big DoD contractors NOT issuing WARN notices will directly screw US and not the upper level guys just doesn't get in their heads. My company is being purposely run into the ground thanks to short-sighted quarter-by-quarter profit chasing, and here is everyone on break happily buying the corporate line. It just makes me sick, but at the same time, makes me that more committed to taking over this place sooner rather than later.
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Oct 20, 2012 07:21
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vyelkin posted:It's a very in-depth piece detailing exactly how Romney made his money and exactly how Bain worked, namely that they would just load a shitton of debt onto the companies they bought in order to pay themselves and then hightail it out of there after extracting as much money as they possibly could. After thinking pretty hard about this, I still have not been able to think of a fundamental difference between Bain's business model and credit fraud. They take out loans with no intention of ever paying them back, then rely on a technical difference between themselves and the company they control to walk away with the money. Without the easy money-laundering step of paying themselves with money a different company (that they control) borrowed they would have no business model. Their entire business is based on credit fraud.
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Oct 20, 2012 09:11
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Polymerized Cum posted:How many corporate CEOs managed to succeed solely on their hard work and creativity, i.e. Steve Jobs? What? Well, sure, it just mostly wasn't his hard work and creativity.
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Oct 20, 2012 09:31
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 This appeared on my feed today. Apparently it has over 340,000 "Likes", and the comments are as terrible as you can imagine (click image to see). I wish I could resurrect Ronald Reagan just so I could kill him again, and then trap his ghost in a phylactery made of dog poo poo.
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Oct 20, 2012 20:17
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Loving Life Partner posted:
You aren't living in total abject poverty where every day you are on the brink of starvation and dehydration? Guess you don't need welfare or food stamps to try and improve your lot in life, you lazy poor.
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Oct 20, 2012 20:20
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Not to mention most poor people...can't afford those things. It's painful because you can never talk people out of it. Show statistics information about how drug use almost never happens under welfare, well how much do we KNOW? They could be hiding it. But they saw a "welfare queen" ONE TIME at the supermarket and it's concrete proof.
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Oct 20, 2012 20:22
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I believe that if you purchase alcohol, cigarettes, or own a dishwasher or a color TV you should forfeit all income tax deductions. Clearly you don't need the help if you can afford to waste so much of your money.
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Oct 20, 2012 20:28
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I believe that if you purchase alcohol, cigarettes, or own a dishwasher or a color TV you should forfeit all income tax deductions. Clearly you don't need the help if you can afford to waste so much of your money. I actually know somebody who is on food stamps. She works two jobs to support a kid after the career options from the degree she paid for fell through. One of her Facebook "friends" asked her how she could afford Karaoke, alcohol and cigarettes if she was on food stamps. So, yeah, some people literally expect her to stare at the walls when she's not working, shopping for groceries or taking care of her son, if she dares get on a government assistance program.
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Oct 20, 2012 20:38
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LifeSizePotato posted:That's actually a helpful tack with her mom and dad. Both are utterly convinced that the government and a country should be run like a business. In fact, I thought about going to the "Help DnD" thread looking for good rebuttals to that line of thinking because it's pretty ingrained in both of them and informs a lot of their political opinions. Also as a Canadian the stuff being posted in this thread kind of scares me. Grey Fox V2 fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 21:36
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Loving Life Partner posted:
The correct response to this: What I find unreal about you Teabilly fucksticks is that you actually seem jealous of poor people. Like it’s super fun to be a single mom or elderly person who is forced to rely on Welfare to fulfill basic human needs. HALF of the people receiving benefits are kids and one-third are elderly or disabled. Only a TINY percentage of people getting assistance are able-bodied adults, but don’t let facts get in the way of your pathetic little pity party. You assholes begrudge poor children hot meals, yet don’t seem to give a poo poo that the multimillionaire, Ann Romney, takes a $77,000 tax deduction for her dancing horse and the taxpayers just funded her trip to the Olympics. Where’s the outrage about that insanity? How about the dozens of huge corporations that are making record-breaking profits and getting tax refunds? That doesn’t chap your moonshine-swillin’ hillbilly hides a little bit? You’re here working yourselves into a tizzy over some bullshit “welfare queen” myth and the thought that some icky POOR PERSON might get a few free loving meals so they don’t end up homeless, yet turn away while the oil industry get BILLIONS in tax subsidies, even after turning huge profits! You bed-pissing rednecks are a loving disgrace to this country. gently caress YOU. (from here http://markmaynard.com/2012/07/you-bed-pissing-rednecks-are-a-loving-disgrace-to-this-country/)
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Oct 20, 2012 21:58
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If your business can afford to flood my TV with advertisements, pay its CEO over $10M a year, and makes profits of $10B or more a year; Then you can afford to pay your employees enough that they don't have to rely on Food Stamps and Medicaid to keep their families alive. Like if you agree. Sarion fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 22:25
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Sarion posted:If your business can afford to flood my TV with advertisements, pay its CEO over $10M a year, and makes profits of $10B or more a year; I'm stealing the poo poo out of this because it's great and suitably uncrazy. e:  There, now it's suitably Facebookish. Mo_Steel fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Oct 21, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 23:40
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30.5 Days posted:I decided to rib a coworker of mine who'd complained about political facebook posts by making an extremely political post and tagging them in it. My boss decided to drop by and respond to it seriously- here's him responding to my contention that we should have a top marginal rate of 50% on incomes over $1 million. I am a partner in a "S" Corp that receives a K-1 for my tax returns. The K-1 is based off of Net Income for the calendar year, which is roughly Income minus Expenses, and shows your partnership share for business income reporting. The $10 million dollar business valuation means nothing, it's all about Net Income for the K-1. Here's a scenario: Partner with 50% share: $50,000 base salary (which the company pays payroll tax on and expenses out) Company has a net income of $250,000 at the end of the year. Partner gets a K-1 with $125,000 as their share. Their total income for the year is $175,000. They pay personal taxes on this total amount. If you have terrible cash flow, this might be a problem, but you have until April 15 to file and pay your federal taxes. At the level in which you have a K-1, you are paying estimated taxes quarterly anyway so you should have your poo poo together enough to make the partner distributions to cover those. Anyway, this type of attitude pisses me off. "Let's not hurt the job creators!" 
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Oct 21, 2012 03:49
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Sgt. Cilantro posted:I am a partner in a "S" Corp that receives a K-1 for my tax returns. The K-1 is based off of Net Income for the calendar year, which is roughly Income minus Expenses, and shows your partnership share for business income reporting. The $10 million dollar business valuation means nothing, it's all about Net Income for the K-1. Here's a scenario: Since I doubt anyone who runs a business grossing 10 million is not going to realize that distinction, they're lying.
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Oct 21, 2012 06:24
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Latest Facebook spam: I'm not ever sure where to go with this. I'm having trouble finding out what percent of the homeless are illegal aliens, and I know that the guy who posted this is a big "boostraps" fan who is against social spending, so I'm not ever sure what the point here is. My first thought was "well, illegals tend to work harder" but that wouldn't go over well.
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Oct 21, 2012 06:44
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Because a lot of veterans are coming home with severe mental disorders that the government is either unwilling or unable to treat, and these disorders often lead to violence, drug abuse, and alcoholism. A lot of illegal aliens are people who crossed a magic line on the ground without permission and now have lovely jobs where they're underpaid but are able to keep their families afloat.
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Oct 21, 2012 07:43
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prom candy posted:Because a lot of veterans are coming home with severe mental disorders that the government is either unwilling or unable to treat, and these disorders often lead to violence, drug abuse, and alcoholism. Yeah this. Do these people think that free homes are just being given away randomly, and illegal immigrants are getting more?
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Oct 21, 2012 08:29
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A good rebuttal to a lot of craziness is to ask "Ok, hypothetically if Obama is muslim, what does that do?". If they start talking about how he can do this or that, ask how a president can accumulate so much power as to over-ride the constitution entirely.
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Oct 21, 2012 09:04
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Because most illegal immigrants have homes that they go back to when it is no longer worthwhile to stay in the US.
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Oct 21, 2012 09:44
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Sgt. Cilantro posted:I am a partner in a "S" Corp that receives a K-1 for my tax returns. The K-1 is based off of Net Income for the calendar year, which is roughly Income minus Expenses, and shows your partnership share for business income reporting. The $10 million dollar business valuation means nothing, it's all about Net Income for the K-1. Here's a scenario: Just out of curiosity, how often do K-1 earners usually receive your portion of the K-1 income? The same schedule as when a wage earner does or something else?
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Oct 21, 2012 11:30
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30.5 Days posted:I decided to rib a coworker of mine who'd complained about political facebook posts by making an extremely political post and tagging them in it. My boss decided to drop by and respond to it seriously- here's him responding to my contention that we should have a top marginal rate of 50% on incomes over $1 million. There's an option to limit who can see your posts / status updates. In the future, you should use that option, and be a little smarter about what you post in general. The last thing anyone needs to do is get into an argument about corporate tax rates with their boss on Facebook. Depending on how the election goes, you may well find yourself on your boss's bad side, and frankly, you won't have anyone to blame but yourself, having advertised your political views in a public post.
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Oct 21, 2012 12:12
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Walter posted:There's an option to limit who can see your posts / status updates. In the future, you should use that option, and be a little smarter about what you post in general. The last thing anyone needs to do is get into an argument about corporate tax rates with their boss on Facebook. It's really lovely that what you've described here is a real situation in America- it's not one that I'm in, though, so don't worry about me. I'm a fortunate guy. I think "you won't have anyone to blame but yourself" is an incredibly lovely attitude to have, though- I'm pretty sure I could blame the guy who's giving me poo poo because he doesn't like my political views. And considering how difficult our company finds it to hire into my department, I suspect that when I left, others would blame him too. I don't think he's the sort of person to do that, though. Sgt. Cilantro posted:I am a partner in a "S" Corp that receives a K-1 for my tax returns. The K-1 is based off of Net Income for the calendar year, which is roughly Income minus Expenses, and shows your partnership share for business income reporting. The $10 million dollar business valuation means nothing, it's all about Net Income for the K-1. Here's a scenario: I eventually got to the bottom of it, but it sounds like our company's partners find it difficult to deduct 100% of our expenses, or at least that was the claim. I don't know what the gap is and don't especially care, and it sounds like if they wanted to, they could eliminate that issue by moving to a corporation but some accountant worked out that their tax burden would be higher if they did, so they don't. It sounds like a non-issue, and honestly I'm far more concerned by the coworker of mine who claimed that Mitt Romney's tax plan was great for her because the tax cut on capital gains would cut her taxes by more than losing the mortgage exemption would raise it. She didn't get back to me after I explained that 401k income isn't taxed as capital gains, though.
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Oct 21, 2012 12:57
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LP97S posted:A good rebuttal to a lot of craziness is to ask "Ok, hypothetically if Obama is muslim, what does that do?". If they start talking about how he can do this or that, ask how a president can accumulate so much power as to over-ride the constitution entirely. Also, ask them what sect of Islam Obama secretly subscribes to. Since they apparently have a third eye that can see into Obama's heart of hearts, they should be able to be more specific about that sort of thing.
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Oct 21, 2012 13:07
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.Edward Penischin posted:Just out of curiosity, how often do K-1 earners usually receive your portion of the K-1 income? The same schedule as when a wage earner does or something else? It can be as regular as a paycheck or a lump sum at the end of the year. How we do it is we have a smaller fixed amount distributed twice a month and then distribute larger lump sums based on how we think our cash flow and sales are going. Most of our money comes in the spring and summer so that is when we usually make the lump sum distributions. Another thing to note is that the K-1 doesn't determine what the distributions are, just what your share of the tax burden is for profits. We like to keep decent cash reserves in the business so total distributions for the year might be 70% of the K-1 amount.
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Oct 21, 2012 13:07
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Dr Christmas posted:The Michelle Obama thing is a massive I had a long facebook argument with some liberal friends from around the country, and basically all of them said that attacking Mitt Romney's family is okay because they're bad, or that attacking either candidate's family is okay because they do it to Michelle Obama already. It was incredibly frustrating to see bad argument after dumb argument getting a hundred likes, while me pointing out that following in Rush Limbaugh's footsteps is not a good precedent was basically laughed at by all. One of them made a particularly specious argument about Ann hiring undocumented workers. Everyone liked it. I pointed out that they were taking a blatant lie by Rick Perry as truth, because now it served their purposes. Everyone else then said "I never said that!" but they sure as hell Liked it. My takeaway is that when you dislike someone, it is very, very hard to defend them, from anything. You're entirely willing to take any awful thing said about them at face value, totally uncritically.
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Oct 21, 2012 16:53
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XyloJW posted:My takeaway is that when you dislike someone, it is very, very hard to defend them, from anything. You're entirely willing to take any awful thing said about them at face value, totally uncritically. Unfortunately, this is all too true. I don't know if you guys have seen, but Obama isn't voting on election day. He's taking part in Illinois' early voting. So, if he wins, I wonder what the chances are that we will soon see a new chain email to the effect of: --------- Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: THIS WILL BLOW YOU AWAY!!!! On November 6th, Mitt Romney went to the polls to cast his vote, but where was Obama? No where to be found, because he didn't vote! Why? Because he can't! As a Kenyan immigrant, he can't vote. But that didn't stop him and his Black Panther Army from rigging the election! And now he's planning to have a Moslem call to prayer at his inauguration, and be sworn in on a Keran (The Islam's Bible)!!!! Can't beleive it? Neither did I, till I checked out snopes, do it yourself! It's time we impeach the imposter and TAKE BACK OUR AMERICA!! 88.76% of people are too scared to pass this along. Well I believe this GREAT COUNTRY is One Nation Under GOD and home of the BRAVE. And I am one of the 12.24% BRAVE enough to speak the truth!!!!
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Oct 21, 2012 19:03
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XyloJW posted:I had a long facebook argument with some liberal friends from around the country, and basically all of them said that attacking Mitt Romney's family is okay because they're bad, or that attacking either candidate's family is okay because they do it to Michelle Obama already. I think what matters is what you're attacking them for. "Michelle Obama thinks she can tell us how to eat but she's fat herself look at those fat arms" would be different than saying "Candidate X's wife cheats on her taxes" or whatever. I don't have anything against Ann Romney specifically but her comments about how her and Mitt know what's it's like to struggle really rubbed me the wrong way and I think it's fair to use that as a basis to attack Mitt himself.
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Oct 21, 2012 19:12
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