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Grand Prize Winner posted:Answer to quoted question: He sure does! Yesssssssssssss Cant wait to get my copy in the mail. My body is ready.
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Oct 22, 2012 04:47
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:A good point He was only in his 50s? That explains it, then. I thought he was at least a decade older. There's plenty of people who stay strong well into their sixties, but for some reason I was convinced he'd be in his seventies in a theoretical second trilogy. A kickass seventy-year-old is harder to believe (certainly not impossible, but harder to believe). Of course, you've just spoiled the fact that Logen survives Red Country, which he wasn't certain to do.
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Oct 22, 2012 07:29
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Grand Prize Winner posted:He was only in his 50s? That explains it, then. I thought he was at least a decade older. There's plenty of people who stay strong well into their sixties, but for some reason I was convinced he'd be in his seventies in a theoretical second trilogy. A kickass seventy-year-old is harder to believe (certainly not impossible, but harder to believe). Of course, you've just spoiled the fact that Logen survives Red Country, which he wasn't certain to do. Speak for yourself, doubter. It's easier to stop the Whiteflow than to stop the Bloody Nine. 
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Oct 22, 2012 12:26
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I always pictured Logen to be in his early to mid-30s in the trilogy, and Red Country is 10 years after that.
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Oct 22, 2012 14:29
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So I'm assuming since there are Union troops on the border of the Old Empire, they've managed to completely take over/subdue the North? I'm guessing in no small part due to Bayaz? Also, is the guy Lamb and Shy run into with the scar on his face Shivers? Because I'm totally calling it that that guy is Shivers. edit: You people who finished it already are absolute fuckers by the way... I moused over spoilers... I wish I could say it was on accident but it wasn't. 
Contra Calculus fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Oct 23, 2012 |
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Oct 23, 2012 01:02
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Grand Prize Winner posted:He was only in his 50s? That explains it, then. I thought he was at least a decade older. There's plenty of people who stay strong well into their sixties, but for some reason I was convinced he'd be in his seventies in a theoretical second trilogy. A kickass seventy-year-old is harder to believe (certainly not impossible, but harder to believe). Of course, you've just spoiled the fact that Logen survives Red Country, which he wasn't certain to do. C'mon, go read Terry Pratchett! Cohen the Barbarian is totally believable. 
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Oct 23, 2012 02:38
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Contra Calculus posted:So I'm assuming since there are Union troops on the border of the Old Empire, they've managed to completely take over/subdue the North? I'm guessing in no small part due to Bayaz? Also, is the guy Lamb and Shy run into with the scar on his face Shivers? Because I'm totally calling it that that guy is Shivers. Logen dies of chronic shitdick.
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Oct 23, 2012 05:00
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Kellanved posted:
COMPLETELY missed this. Just thought she was some random woman. RRGGH. So yeah, finished with this. Agreeing with everyone else that it was freaking awesome. Seeing Zacharus again was pretty sweet. "No, but they think I should."  Contra Calculus posted:So I'm assuming since there are Union troops on the border of the Old Empire, they've managed to completely take over/subdue the North? I'm guessing in no small part due to Bayaz? Also, is the guy Lamb and Shy run into with the scar on his face Shivers? Because I'm totally calling it that that guy is Shivers. Nope, they come from Starikland, which has always been an Union province/colony, like Angland in the North. North is still under the control of Black Calder (who is kind-of-a puppet of Bayaz so same difference anyway), but the North doesn't border the Old Empire. Map: http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/032/d/b/Map_First_Law_by_Scubamarco.jpg Starikland doesn't get mentioned that much in the books so the confusion is understandable. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Oct 23, 2012 |
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Oct 23, 2012 09:08
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I'm going to get out of this thread because I will end up reading a spoiler and I will kill myself, but I can't wait for these one shots to end and set up all the players for the next trilogy. Trilogy 2 end spoiler: Glokta wins.
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Oct 23, 2012 10:08
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Edit: ^ Well he won in the first trilogy, why not the second? Okay, after seeing that map, how the gently caress does the Union not get invaded constantly? How the gently caress is Styria its own separate nation? Why the gently caress is Midderland a supreme power yet it's such a dinky little piece of land? How the poo poo does it exert any sort of control on any of its colonies? Edit: VVV I mean that makes some sense but it just seems like all the land-masses that have countries who hate the Union are too close to the center of its government. Contra Calculus fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Oct 23, 2012 |
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Oct 23, 2012 18:58
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Contra Calculus posted:Edit: ^ Well he won in the first trilogy, why not the second? It's a speculative map, but it has a huge navy and army. I'm pretty sure in the trilogy Gurkhul's secret fleet took people by surprise and the army was off in the North. Contra Calculus posted:How the gently caress is Styria its own separate nation? It's made before Best Served Cold. Contra Calculus posted:Why the gently caress is Midderland a supreme power yet it's such a dinky little piece of land?  Contra Calculus posted:How the poo poo does it exert any sort of control on any of its colonies? Navy.
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Oct 23, 2012 19:33
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Since the first trilogy focused on Midderland (and plenty of other places too, but mostly Adua), then a book in Styria, then a book in the north, and now a book in the Old Empire does this mean the final trilogy should focus on Gurkhul? I hope so, because I want some crazy Ferro murder-spree action.
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Oct 24, 2012 02:40
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I hope Glokta does return in the next trilogy. His chapters were my favorite. I really got a good Tyrion from A Clash of Kings vibe from him. I guess Temple is kind of a Glokta stand-in for Red Country? Haven't gotten that far. Can someone confirm/deny this?
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Oct 24, 2012 14:09
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I wouldn't say there's much common ground at all.
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Oct 24, 2012 14:43
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I just got a chance to finish it this morning and I have to say it's probably far and above my 2nd favorite of the stand alones, with Best Served Cold being first. Am I wrong or has that drat place they went to the Arkan or whatever the guys with the MECHANICAL DRAGON!!! mentioned in Best Served Cold. I thought it was? Sorry haven't read the books in a while. I thought this was far and above one of the better novels he's written, I mean people say it's to "chaotic" it's not it is very well planned and plotted. I mean it is straight up western and everything the stand offs everything. Loved it. Although I was a bit disappointed with Shivers at the end of the book. That was kind of a Red Herring and felt shoe horned in. I was sad to see Cosca go but he really was a bastard at the end. Logen leaving the town makes sense, he just can't turn away from what he's done. Overall the book was fantastic. Definitely time to reread it.
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Oct 24, 2012 21:09
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I noticed that we never got a Bloody Nine pov. I'm hoping we get a little more closure on the whole Logen/Bloody Nine, how much difference there is between the two. There are hints that some of it comes from the world below and Ihave to wonder if this comes up in the next trilogy. In the first trilogy, Bloody 9 only came out when Logen was wounded, and in a truly desperate situation. In Red Country Logen seems to turn it on at will, though again he is not in control and even has the prescience to ask Shy to promise to stay out of his way. There is also the whole talking to spirits angle that has vanished. I don't think Logens story is done.Contra Calculus posted:I hope Glokta does return in the next trilogy. His chapters were my favorite. I really got a good Tyrion from A Clash of Kings vibe from him. I guess Temple is kind of a Glokta stand-in for Red Country? Haven't gotten that far. Can someone confirm/deny this? Very minor spoilers: They both share a sense of awareness, and you could probably draw a decent comparison, but they are definitely different characters. He could be called "kind of" a Glokta stand in that they have a similar awareness about their own lack of agency, and that the plot drives them much more than they drive the plot, but when you start to get down to the details they are very different. Blind Melon fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Oct 24, 2012 |
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Oct 24, 2012 21:42
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Got Red Country in the mail this morning and finished it in one sitting. Wow. This is probably Abercrombie's best stand-alone novel to date. The tension when Logen and Shivers were doing their showdown was amazing. Also, I'm glad the Cosca is finally dead, I know many liked him but I always thought he deserved his comeuppance multiple times over. So many good moments in the book, and so much emotion. Mark my words this book will be winning awards. Only thing I hated was that Ro will probably never forgive Logen after her whole ordeal, which is somewhat unfair but I guess you have to be realistic about these things. Childhood emotional trauma is a bitch
Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Oct 25, 2012 |
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Oct 25, 2012 05:42
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Yeah but that's kind of the point Logen despite what every one wants to think here isn't actually a good person, he holds onto the idea that he can be a good person, but he never atoned for his killings his or the Bloody Nine, Basically he's the Bloody Nine, Logens the mask. His true nature is the Bloody Nine. I mean I don't think it was lost on anyone that he's literally a wolf in sheep's clothing IE LAMB. He just can't help but drag everyone he cares about into hell with him and turns friends to enemies it's in his nature. I'm going to probably do a reread of the book ,but one of the things I liked a lot was as dark as it was there was a decent amount of humour in it but it was closer to just good solid dialogue.
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Oct 25, 2012 08:25
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I'm about halfway through but it's definitely some of the best stuff Joe has written, his nihilistic world view just goes hand in hand with this style of western. I like how the previous characters are recognized by appearance and interactions as opposed to being named outright, very slick that he pulled it off without seeming smarmy or inclusive.
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Oct 25, 2012 14:13
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I think Abercrombie and Sanderson are the only authors who, for me, have been consistently improving with each new book they write. Not finished with it, but this definitely remains true for Red Country so far.
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Oct 25, 2012 15:58
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Hollis posted:Yeah but that's kind of the point Logen despite what every one wants to think here isn't actually a good person, he holds onto the idea that he can be a good person, but he never atoned for his killings his or the Bloody Nine, Basically he's the Bloody Nine, Logens the mask. His true nature is the Bloody Nine. I mean I don't think it was lost on anyone that he's literally a wolf in sheep's clothing IE LAMB. He just can't help but drag everyone he cares about into hell with him and turns friends to enemies it's in his nature. I still do think that Logen is basically a good person (at least at the point when we read about him). He has certainly done evil, but in Abercrombie's books there's hardly a character that hasn't. What makes Logen a good person from my perspective is that he actively tries to get away from his own savage nature and tries to do good. The fact that he fails because of his past/circumstances/mental-illness is immaterial. Its the thought that counts so to speak. And in his case you cant even throw the "road to hell is paved with good intentions" line at him, because Logen isn't resolved to do evil as a means of doing good, poo poo just happens. I would say that the more pertinent message is that you cannot leave a past of violence behind..... Even if you become a good person there will always be those with old score to settle to drag you back into it.
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Oct 25, 2012 17:43
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Hemp Knight posted:Just finished it. First half felt pretty slow, but picked up nicely in the second half. I loved the whole book. Best Served Cold is my favorite Abercrombie book but this one is a close second. While Bayaz, or those others, didn't have any direct participation in the events of the novel, there was that Valint and Balk outpost being built at the end of the story.
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Oct 25, 2012 18:17
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In regards to the observation that neither Bayaz nor his representatives were in this book, there was the one thing at the end that Valint and Balk were setting up shop in Crease. Is this because of the development of early factories, or is this because Bayaz has plans for the Old Empire?
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Oct 26, 2012 02:06
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ufuk kongporn posted:In regards to the observation that neither Bayaz nor his representatives were in this book, there was the one thing at the end that Valint and Balk were setting up shop in Crease. Is this because of the development of early factories, or is this because Bayaz has plans for the Old Empire? I think it's both, Bayaz has shown that he's very enthusiastic about the new technologies that are being developed, so he probably has Valint and Balk funding factories and inventors. Also, once the Union is secure on other fronts, Bayaz will probably want to start getting more aggressive with the Empire so the Union can eventually have access to whatever natural resources can be exploited from it's lands.
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Oct 26, 2012 05:49
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Quick question, i want to listen to red country as an audio book but my understanding is it revolves somewhat around characters from best served cold. BSC isn't available as an English audio book where i live, at least not from where i shop, so i haven't gotten around to it. I did listen to heroes and i don't think i missed out on anything in that. Can i move on to Red country and be fine or is BSC necessary knowledge? Also, maybe someone could link me to some good sources for a some refreshers on characters. I remember most of the plot of the four books i read, but not a whole lot about secondary characters.
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Oct 26, 2012 19:33
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Pessimisten posted:Quick question, i want to listen to red country as an audio book but my understanding is it revolves somewhat around characters from best served cold. BSC isn't available as an English audio book where i live, at least not from where i shop, so i haven't gotten around to it. Best Served Cold isn't necessary knowledge, but it would significantly flesh out some of the characters you'll see in Red Country. The characters from Best Served Cold that show up in Red Country are primarily Cosca and Caul Shivers (I may be missing one or two more minor characters; Cosca especially is the most important). You already saw Shivers in The Heroes, but his actual character arc is in Best Served Cold. Cosca you saw in the First Law Trilogy, but he too gets more time in Best Served Cold.
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Oct 26, 2012 19:43
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BSC/RC spoilers: You also see Carlot dan Eider in both books, shes named in BSC and plays The Mayor in Red Country. There are a few other minor appearances but I can't recall them offhand, I'll have to take a look when I get home. BSC definitely fleshes out the characters, enough that I wouldn't want to skip it personally. It's also a fantastic book, one of his best.
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Oct 26, 2012 23:47
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The Gunslinger posted:BSC/RC spoilers: You also see Carlot dan Eider in both books, shes named in BSC and plays The Mayor in Red Country. There are a few other minor appearances but I can't recall them offhand, I'll have to take a look when I get home. Carlot dan Eider/the Mayor appears in part of the Trilogy, too. She's head of the Spicer's guild while Glokta's in Dagoska.
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Oct 27, 2012 00:57
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savinhill posted:I think it's both, Bayaz has shown that he's very enthusiastic about the new technologies that are being developed, so he probably has Valint and Balk funding factories and inventors. Also, once the Union is secure on other fronts, Bayaz will probably want to start getting more aggressive with the Empire so the Union can eventually have access to whatever natural resources can be exploited from it's lands. I agree for the most part though I think that traditional geopolitics like we see in the real world is less of Bayaz's concern than competition with the other Magi, particularly Khalul. Going back and re-reading portions of Before They Are Hanged with Zacharus, it's obvious that his relationship with Zacharus was already tenuous, and Zacharus was quite wary of Bayaz's desire to get the Seed (which Zacharus called "evil"). From Zacharus' standpoint I wouldn't be surprised if he views Bayaz as comparable to Khalul now - both a threat. But obviously it seems to me that Bayaz has too much to concern himself with elsewhere to try to get aggressive with the Old Empire, hence Pike's demand that Cosca avoid any Imperial entanglements at all costs. With Monza loose in Styria as a wildcard, too much is at stake to be too reckless in the Union's expansion. But that shouldn't stop the soft arm of Union power - financial power - from snaking its way westward. I wonder how many people know that Bayaz controls the bank aside from Glokta.
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Oct 27, 2012 02:36
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The Gunslinger posted:BSC/RC spoilers: You also see Carlot dan Eider in both books, shes named in BSC and plays The Mayor in Red Country. There are a few other minor appearances but I can't recall them offhand, I'll have to take a look when I get home. Don't forget Friendly! One of my favorites.
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Oct 27, 2012 02:37
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ufuk kongporn posted:
Yoru Sulfur and Shenkt, I don't think anyone else has been shown.
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Oct 28, 2012 18:26
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DarkCrawler posted:Yoru Sulfur and Shenkt, I don't think anyone else has been shown. If Shenkt knows then Monza probably knows.
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Oct 28, 2012 20:59
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Jeffrey posted:If Shenkt knows then Monza probably knows. Yeah, its pretty clear Shenkt is grooming Monza to be his anti-Bayaz ally, so he probably told her about Valint and Balk
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Oct 28, 2012 22:23
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Finally finished up with Red Country, was pleasantly surprised at the length. Joes has definitely hit his stride now, I think this was my favorite book and man, what a great ending. I really like the cover/binding on the paperback, very striking. Can't wait for his next one already, I think I'll do a First Law re-read soon.
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Nov 1, 2012 20:09
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Hey who do you guys think could play Logen in a film or TV adaptation? I was thinking that a younger Gerard Depardieu would be perfect. Its hard to think of anyone else who has that combination of being physically intimidating, slightly ugly and yet ultimately still very likable. Maybe a younger Schwarzenegger could work too, but I think he carries far too much typecasting baggage to pull off the role. Out of actors who are currently of the right age I think Javier Bardem would work best.
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Nov 2, 2012 06:06
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In Red Country? Ron Perlman.
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Nov 2, 2012 06:46
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Finished Red Country today. Biggest area of improvement to his stuff is definitely his ability to make me tear up something vicious. Got through the whole of The First Law/Best Served Cold without a sniffle, heroes got me pretty good at the end but this one just loving ruined me. Some of the plotting was a bit too pat, and some of the dialogue was over-written but other than that it was an absolute blast. Really loved Lamb's slide back towards what he was, and the way it ended with him chasing after his bloody past.
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Nov 5, 2012 01:11
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Mr.48 posted:Out of actors who are currently of the right age I think Javier Bardem would work best. I reckon he would be better as Shivers with that cold, dead stare.
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Nov 6, 2012 00:37
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Can someone remind me what role Zacharus played in the earlier novels?
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Nov 8, 2012 16:08
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TrickyTrev posted:Can someone remind me what role Zacharus played in the earlier novels? They briefly met him in the desert in the Old Empire when looking for the Seed. He was trying to re-unify the Empire under his charge, self-claimed Emperor Goltus (who had defeated two other important claimants recently). In the second book.
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Nov 8, 2012 18:36
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