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The one thing I dislike about Brandon's writing besides his humor is his logic based character reasoning. Like if you read Brandon's Kelsier vs Moiraine cage match thing: http://sf-fantasy.suvudu.com/2012/03/cage-match-2012-round-4-moiraine-damodred-versus-kelsier.html This whole chapter basically read like that. I normally don't care, especially since Brandon isn't RJ and I love BS's own books, but this chapter felt really off. Avi and Elayne could have been called Sarah and Lauren, Avi you're a gem?
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Oct 25, 2012 01:46
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Chapter two owns, gently caress the haters I dig Pevara, she is a very cool chararcter.
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Oct 25, 2012 09:37
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Ugh. Continuitiy errors.
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Oct 25, 2012 14:20
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Bluedust posted:Avi you're a gem? I hated this line too. I did like the chapter overall - I think there's something interesting about Androl that may lead him to become more than just a weak dude who can create huge gateways. The part with Elayne and Aviendha bored me to ears. I really just can't stand Elayne.
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Oct 25, 2012 18:07
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The Midniter posted:I really just can't stand Elayne. All will be well. You are among friends here.
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Oct 25, 2012 20:22
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Affi posted:Ugh. Continuitiy errors. Be more specific?
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Oct 25, 2012 21:35
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Two Finger posted:Chapter two owns, gently caress the haters Yeah, I really like both her and the story she's involved in. I wish it started earlier in the series, as it's one subplot that I wouldn't have minded getting a lot more pages devoted to it.
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Oct 26, 2012 05:39
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The Midniter posted:I really just can't stand Elayne. Does anyone like Elayne? Except Rand, for some odd reason. I think he just likes her cause she's royalty though. Can't be her amazing personality. Otherwise he'd spend more time with the chick he knocked up.
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Oct 26, 2012 06:11
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Theangryhobo posted:Does anyone like Elayne? Except Rand, for some odd reason. I think he just likes her cause she's royalty though. Can't be her amazing personality. Otherwise he'd spend more time with the chick he knocked up. I like Elayne, I just hate what Robert Jordan chose to do with her once she got back to Caemlyn. The way she sees Min's viewing as a shield is pretty stupid for a person who is supposed to be pretty smart. The scenes with her and Mat in the last book were pretty good though.
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Oct 26, 2012 06:25
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Bluedust posted:The one thing I dislike about Brandon's writing besides his humor is his logic based character reasoning. I thought that the part with Androl and Pevara was good, but yeah that interaction between Elayne and Aviendha was horrible. That gem line really bugged me, especially because it was repeated.
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Oct 26, 2012 07:05
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savinhill posted:Yeah, I really like both her and the story she's involved in. I wish it started earlier in the series, as it's one subplot that I wouldn't have minded getting a lot more pages devoted to it. I always felt this weird disconnect in the Black Tower story arc, it starts out awesome, lots of focus on it, Logain shows up and... then it kinda just sits there smoldering in the background while the story focuses on Elayne and what not. I'd loved to have gotten an inside view of the whole thing, sorta like the White Tower parts. Instead we barely know what Logain (oh yeah, that dude - guy should definitely have gotten half a dozen chapters to himself for the Black Tower part) et al is up against and not necessarily in a good way - as thrilling as a dozen weak channelers versus hundreds of samey arrogant Dreadlords may be.
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Oct 26, 2012 16:37
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caleramaen posted:I like Elayne, I just hate what Robert Jordan chose to do with her once she got back to Caemlyn. The way she sees Min's viewing as a shield is pretty stupid for a person who is supposed to be pretty smart. The scenes with her and Mat in the last book were pretty good though. That's the general complaint: She's supposed to be smart and can't see the 19381984 ways that her babies could be born healthy and she's not perfectly healthy and happy. Also Andor politics are generally boring and could've been condensed to a much short (and more enjoyable) few chapters. Did the Succession War really mean all that much in the end beyond Elayne being on the throne? And yes, the Elayne-Rand relationship has the least explanation to it. Basically felt more like teenage infatuation than real "love" of any sort - they were sneaking kisses in the Stone, and then met again to get her pregnant. Aviendha had a long (albeit forced at first) relationship, and the whole "drat IT I REALLY WANT TO HATE YOU STOP BEING NICE" thing was pretty well done. Min is the only thing that keeps him sane through the last 6 books.
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Oct 26, 2012 18:33
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subx posted:That's the general complaint: She's supposed to be smart and can't see the 19381984 ways that her babies could be born healthy and she's not perfectly healthy and happy. On the other hand, the Last Battle is coming, nobody's going to be perfectly healthy and happy. And making all your decisions based on being perfectly healthy and happy is loving stupid. At least she knows she'll be alive. That's already better than nearly ANY OTHER CHARACTER gets. quote:Nynaeve brought three goblets of spiced wine to the table, beads of condensation running down their shining sides, and small green-and-gold woven straw mats to put them on so the damp would not mar the table’s polish. “So,” she said, taking a chair, “you’ve discovered you are in love with Rand, Elayne, and Egwene has discovered she isn’t.” This is her (and Nynaeve's, and Egwene's) attitude. She's no more or less foolhardy than any of the male characters.
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Oct 26, 2012 19:22
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Pimpmust posted:I always felt this weird disconnect in the Black Tower story arc, it starts out awesome, lots of focus on it, Logain shows up and... then it kinda just sits there smoldering in the background while the story focuses on Elayne and what not. I definitely agree. There are a few chapters, one or two a book, that sortof shows what could be going on at the Black Tower. Otherwise, we are generally left in the dark. I kinda understand the reasoning behind it, with Taim training up his own army of channelers, but it would still be nice if we had a bit more on it. Rand started the school, one would think he would show more interest in the fact Taim seems to be up to no good. Afterall, it isn't like no one has told him. There are a few moments where he's doing nothing, he could at least make an appearance.
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Oct 26, 2012 19:35
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At this point Rand just showing up would probably cause about 75% of the dreadlords there to go  (50% due to Veins of Gold and 50% from rubbing his massive cuendillar balls in Taim's face)
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Oct 26, 2012 19:49
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He really, really needs to check in on those guys at some point. I would think the Asha'man are kind of important to his plans.
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Oct 26, 2012 19:57
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subx posted:And yes, the Elayne-Rand relationship has the least explanation to it. Basically felt more like teenage infatuation than real "love" of any sort - they were sneaking kisses in the Stone, and then met again to get her pregnant. Aviendha had a long (albeit forced at first) relationship, and the whole "drat IT I REALLY WANT TO HATE YOU STOP BEING NICE" thing was pretty well done. Min is the only thing that keeps him sane through the last 6 books. The Elayne-Rand relationship has a bit more to it than that. Specifically, the fact that Elayne reminds Rand/Lews Therin of Ilyena, and might actually be Ilyena reborn.
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Oct 26, 2012 20:10
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paragon1 posted:He really, really needs to check in on those guys at some point. I would think the Asha'man are kind of important to his plans. I personally think he already knows and has always known about Taim and his intentions/loyalties, he just views it as necessary. Kind of like him and Asmodean. He knows that some will fall to shadow and it's a temporary solution, but it's worth the price to get trained men who can channel and allow him to be free from spending the time to train them. He's probably thinking "yeah it's a bad thing, but I'll fix it later".
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Oct 26, 2012 20:42
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The Black Tower talk reminded me of a little thing I did today! I've recently been moving my stuff to a new apartment and in the process got around to digging out the good ol' WoT books. As you may or may not know, some languages got two WoT books out of each English one - twice the length for twice the price! (  )Going over some of the covers I decided to take some photos and I think you guys are in for a treat  Wheel of Time: Bork Edition Skipping the first two because while competently drawn, they are kinda boring Fantasy fair. Skipping right to my top picks instead!  The Two Books of Book Two - nothing confusing about that! The Coats man, this artist gets it!!! Ishamael looking more emo than Linkin Park, and is that the Dark One peaking out of his Volcano? Also noticing BALLS OF LIGHT juggling there in the corner. Cover is just full of foreshadowing!! Next shot got a little blurry so I pulled up the hardcover from google for comparisons:  Book 1 of the two Book 3 (The Dragon Reborn) books The pocket version was a lot bluer than the hardcover for some reason. Tear is also apparently located in the Blasted Lands. Might want to use a geiger counter on that sword Rand  Next up is the raddest cover, so hold on to your seats:  The second book of the Shadow Rising Gentlemen, I give you Asmodean  (and Rand cosplaying a Sith Lord) Skipping another boring cover (featuring Aiel and a vaguely defined wise one that looks pissed)  Second book of the The Fires of Heaven Rand got buff as hell from wrestling Asmodean. Next up is hardcover land, where the buff get buffer and the swank gets swanker. First up, FURSTEN AV KAOS:  First book of The Lord of Chaos Is that Moridin? Fucker got his own Pimp throne featuring the Great Lord (see also the first image for another SPOILER on the true look of the dark one!!) Just noting the "Natur och Kultur" (Nature and Culture) tag at the bottom there  Next cover aint nearly as rad, but gets token mention due to the artist interpretation of the whole "two guys, one mind" (or is that three guys?)  The second book of the Lord of Chaos Is the GGRRRR angry half supposed to be Lews Therin or Rand?  The Black Tower is more like the Black Watch Tower. No wonder Taim is cranky, holed up in there with like 500 guys gotta be a real ordeal.  First book of the Crown of Sword Hope you liked the Bowl of Winds story, because it gets a whole book named after it here! Elaida and... Sammael? Gets a front seat spot here.  A crown of Swords Oh Rand, you so dreamy (What's with the hair though?)Kinda bland coat so thumbs down. --- That's the last of the painted covers, the rest are CGI (Poser) stuff and I never got them all before htey stopped doing the translations. Have my (incomplete) collection:  (Order is right to left, not pictured: The English books, which of I got like 8 more)
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Oct 26, 2012 20:52
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caleramaen posted:The Elayne-Rand relationship has a bit more to it than that. Specifically, the fact that Elayne reminds Rand/Lews Therin of Ilyena, and might actually be Ilyena reborn. Huh? This is the first I've heard of this. I mean, they're both blonde, sure, but that's about all we know of as far as similarities. It just seems like a really reaching theory, and what's the payoff? Lews Therin, gets his precious back, thus negating pretty much her entire point of existence as far as the story goes, and Min and Aviendha thrown in as a couple perks? The "three chicks" thing is bad enough as it is, I don't see how killing the love of your life who you were formerly in a presumably monogamous relationship with (we don't hear Lews Therin moaning about Ilyena, Sashequa, and Bilbette), and then having her resurrected just to join your harem makes any sort of ... I don't know. It seems weird and strangely creepy, and a total red herring to throw in there. Besides, there have been no indications that she's "linked" to him in any way. The stories are about the Dragon, not the Dragon and the Blonde Lady, unlike Birgette and Gaidal Cain. I much have an easier time accepting that either the relationship is the relatively shallow but intense type that tends to form between first-timers, or that its depth was off-screen, than Elayne being Ilyena just to give her and Rand a reason to hook up.
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Oct 26, 2012 21:46
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Pimpmust posted:
"Pimpmust" posted:
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Oct 26, 2012 22:19
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:either the relationship is the relatively shallow but intense type that tends to form between first-timers, or that its depth was off-screen A little of the former, a little of the latter. By any storytelling convention they are arguably good to go, it really is just that there's not as much of her and Rand in the same place together as either of the other two.
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Oct 26, 2012 22:23
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:Huh? This is the first I've heard of this. I mean, they're both blonde, sure, but that's about all we know of as far as similarities. It just seems like a really reaching theory, and what's the payoff? Lews Therin, gets his precious back, thus negating pretty much her entire point of existence as far as the story goes, and Min and Aviendha thrown in as a couple perks? The "three chicks" thing is bad enough as it is, I don't see how killing the love of your life who you were formerly in a presumably monogamous relationship with (we don't hear Lews Therin moaning about Ilyena, Sashequa, and Bilbette), and then having her resurrected just to join your harem makes any sort of ... I don't know. It seems weird and strangely creepy, and a total red herring to throw in there. Did you read the last chapter of the Gathering Storm? Rand has all of Lew Therin's memories, they are just locked in his subconscious. There were several moments throughout the series where Rand would be thinking about Elayne and Lews Therin would start moaning about how he killed Ilyena. Tie this to the fact that they are both blondes, and both have very similar names, it's not hard to guess that Rand's attraction to Elayne is largely because she reminds him of Ilyena. And Elayne's attraction to Rand? Explained by our good old friend ta'veren. As to whether or not she actually is Ilyena, this is a lot more dubious. Again at the end of TGS Rand is about to destroy the world, and one of his thought is about how he killed Ilyena. He talks himself down by convincing himself that he has been given the chance to try again and that it is possible that Ilyena could live again herself. This is no where near conclusive, but it at least opens the door to the possibility. It also open the door to Rand believing it to be true, without it actually being true.
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Oct 27, 2012 01:35
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api call girl posted:HOOOOOOOOOOLY poo poo WHAT HAVE I BEEN SAYING ALL LONG, THE BOND IS IMPORTANT, THE TWO MUST BE AS ONE. That must be why Aviendha's kids have weird superchanneling powers. Rand reverse bonds her just before he bones her one last time.
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Oct 27, 2012 15:00
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So why didn't Elayne sense Aviendha through either of the two bonds she has with her?
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Oct 27, 2012 17:34
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The sister-bond isn't quite the same, and the three-way Warder bond puts Elayne, Min, and Aviendha generally on the same side of the bond (except the mirroring of emotions, apparently). Also, that POV wasn't from Elayne.
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Oct 27, 2012 18:26
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Also there's a certain degree of spaciness that can be forgiven upon the monarch of a country finding out in the middle of the night that their capital city, seat of government and lifelong home has been torched and eaten in a Trolloc raid.
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Oct 27, 2012 20:57
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Well if she's that distracted then I guess it's a good thing it was Aviendha this time instead a Grey Man or five. Future of mankind may have been slightly hosed otherwise.
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Oct 31, 2012 05:04
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paragon1 posted:Well if she's that distracted then I guess it's a good thing it was Aviendha this time instead a Grey Man or five. Future of mankind may have been slightly hosed otherwise. No worries, her babies would have been fine! 
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Nov 1, 2012 21:28
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:No worries, her babies would have been fine! They would have been born fine... because the Gray Man performed a cesarean and carried them to Thakan'dar.
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Nov 1, 2012 23:25
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ElMudo posted:They would have been born fine... I'm kinda curious as to how that would be written by Sanderson. It's true though, the vision just said they would be born healthy, not live past a couple days.
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Nov 4, 2012 03:41
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Guys, that's dark as poo poo. They're not gonna kill her newborn kids.
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Nov 4, 2012 07:47
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AlternateAccount posted:Guys, that's dark as poo poo. They're not gonna kill her newborn kids. Or her either, considering she's one of the 3 women on the metaphorical boat, and around Rand's funeral bier.
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Nov 4, 2012 16:30
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api call girl posted:Or her either, considering she's one of the 3 women on the metaphorical boat, and around Rand's funeral bier. At this point we really don't know whether said boat refers to an event before or after Elayne has her babies. We're just assuming (not without reason) that it is one of the last events. That being said, I don't think Elayne is going to die. I don't think that is what RJ was going for with this. I don't think he really put any thought into the idea that Elayne's babies could be born fine with Elayne being dead or dying, because Elayne wasn't going to die during the course of the story. He did this with the death of Asmodean as well. Because he knew Graendal killed Asmodean, the logic of it was obvious to him. But he knew what to look for. Everyone else had to sort through everything in the fifth book to try to figure it out. And there was a lot of leading stuff in there. RJ wasn't above not realizing that without his insider knowledge, certain things make little sense.
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Nov 4, 2012 18:50
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caleramaen posted:At this point we really don't know whether said boat refers to an event before or after Elayne has her babies. We're just assuming (not without reason) that it is one of the last events. That being said, I don't think Elayne is going to die. I don't think that is what RJ was going for with this. I don't think he really put any thought into the idea that Elayne's babies could be born fine with Elayne being dead or dying, because Elayne wasn't going to die during the course of the story. But RJ must have thought of it. Birgitte and...pretty much everyone but Elayne...point out that her babies being born healthy doesn't mean that Elayne is going to be ok.
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Nov 5, 2012 00:43
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I finished Towers last night 2 months ahead of schedule. I don't know how I'm going to make it through 2 more months. I can only read Grace and Banners Fallen so many times.
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Nov 5, 2012 01:03
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Antioch posted:I finished Towers last night 2 months ahead of schedule. I don't know how I'm going to make it through 2 more months. I can only read Grace and Banners Fallen so many times. Well you could make your way through chapters one and two as well... Those are available free.
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Nov 5, 2012 02:26
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So someone has done a series of blog posts summarizing the series, starting with the First Age and moving forward. http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2012/01/wheel-of-time-so-far-part-1-age-of.html Reading it, I realize how many things I missed as I read this series. Its neat to read the history in one sitting, rather than in bits and pieces throughout the books. The last entry is for Knife of Dreams, and has links to all the previous entries: http://thewertzone.blogspot.it/2012/10/the-wheel-of-time-so-far-part-15-knife.html
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Nov 5, 2012 02:41
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It makes up a few things, I don't think Ishamael was the first to swear to the Dark One and I dont recall anything that suggests he went on a field trip to discover Shai Tan and was the first to meet him, Semirhage was one of the first to swear to the Dark One, and I always had the impression that Ishamaelwas a good guy for a little bit and then went all betrayer of hope. The author adds some detail that i dont think is evidenced im the books but it is a pretty neat overview.
Blind Melon fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 05:36
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Blind Melon posted:It makes up a few things, I don't think Ishamael was the first to swear to the Dark One and I dont recall anything that suggests he went on a field trip to discover Shai Tan and was the first to meet him, Semirhage was one of the first to swear to the Dark One, and I always had the impression that Ishamaelwas a good guy for a little bit and then went all betrayer of hope. The author adds some detail that i dont think is evidenced im the books but it is a pretty neat overview. He might have gotten some of it from The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time book & the RPG. Then there are all the interviews that people somehow keep track of...
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Nov 5, 2012 06:27
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