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I wish I could say something will actually change for the better because of this, but haha nope. Not a chance.  e: Reading through the NeoGAF thread, it's absolutely amazing. Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Oct 25, 2012 |
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Oct 25, 2012 19:31
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I feel really awful. She's a good friend and a stupid picture I posted has caused a chain of events that could destroy her. 
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Oct 25, 2012 19:36
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Never forget the great Game Journalism War of 2012.
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Oct 25, 2012 19:37
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Monster w21 Faces posted:I feel really awful. She's a good friend and a stupid picture I posted has caused a chain of events that could destroy her. Don't feel bad, man. She said a dumb thing and got upset when Rab repeated it, which was silly, but definitely doesn't warrant the hate being directed at her by loving idiots right now. I'm pretty sure that article was going to get written with or without your screenshot, anyway.
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Oct 25, 2012 20:37
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Without the legal threat it would have been a non-story (game reviewers are chums with marketers? Gasp!)
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Oct 25, 2012 20:44
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Monster w21 Faces posted:I feel really awful. She's a good friend and a stupid picture I posted has caused a chain of events that could destroy her. I even read the Leigh Alexander piece that touches on it, and I'm still not seeing what could have possibly caused drama.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:10
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I second what Shalinor said. I just woke up a little bit ago (late night) and see people talking about game journalists being a little too chummy with the marketing for companies whos products they're covering. I didn't even know that was a secret, or something that would cause any kind of drama. So I assume I'm missing something.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:14
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As though we really needed misogynist gamers to attach their name to this. Sheesh. I'm interested in what the UK libel laws say in such a situation, as I have no goddamn idea how it works but the way John Walker describes it sounds troubling.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:16
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Rough precis - Comedy journalist writes a serious piece pointing out that journalists should be more careful to be seen to be unbiased - with a couple of examples. One of the examples (it is presumed with some evidence to support it) threatens legal procedings so the examples are removed from the article. The writer says he understands why the editing has been done - but has to quit as a result of his principles. The internet goes wild at the drama. It's the sort of thing that isn't really that epic in scope to be fair - but as it involves half the most blatant publicists and self-publicists in the business (most of whom have easy ways to publish quickly in popular places) it is getting a ton of coverage. If someone wants to improve on my version with names and details feel free - I am not impressed enough by it as a scandal to do a real effort post. Edit : British Libel Laws tend to favour those with both deep pockets and experience in Libel procedings. Since Eurogamer has neither they are likely to find it far easier to censor than to defend. 19orFewer fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Oct 25, 2012 |
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Oct 25, 2012 21:17
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I can't even work out why people are mad.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:17
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Shalinor posted:Could we get a further blow-by-blow, for those of us not in the UK / following the spat? From what I can understand: - Keighley-Doritos.jpeg makes it online and games journos notice it. - Robert Florence writes a column on Eurogamer saying it basically encompasses a widespread journo-PR problem - not really anything connected to Keighley, but a general malaise. - notes how games journos retweeted a hashtag sent out by a gaming PR company to win a PS3, said it might represent a conflict of interest. It sure can be construed as it, at least. - the named journalist re-tweeter, Laura Wainwright, got really upset about this, I'm told. She asked for her name to be removed from the article. - NOTE: the quote was a tweet, which was until today an open account. - Apparently she threatened legal action, prompting Eurogamer to remove her name from the article. Robert Florence leaves Eurogamer, I'm not sure if he quit, was fired or the two agreed he should probably hide in a cave while this shitstorm goes down. - Of course some journos are on either side of this debate. And of course gamers give Wainwright a misogynist shitstorm online, as if that has anything to do with it. I might be missing a lot here.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:21
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Yeah I"m kinda drawing a blank here. Isn't it a known issue that publishers do everything to make game journalism bend to their will? Hell that's how Giantbomb formed because of the Kane and Lynch review. Also not surprised with the comments that person is getting. Nothing gets gamers in a big huff when someone basically caused something to happen but had the right to do so. I"m assuming Rob was well liked so that might be because of all the stupid diatribe I'm reading that gamers/comments are making. Shindragon fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Oct 25, 2012 |
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Oct 25, 2012 21:21
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Shalinor posted:Could we get a further blow-by-blow, for those of us not in the UK / following the spat? That's the thing, it's really nothing out of the ordinary, it's just that being a tv comedian Florence has a lot of fans and so things have been blown out of proportion.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:23
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Shindragon posted:Yeah I"m kinda drawing a blank here. Isn't it a known issue that publishers do everything to make game journalism bend to their will? Hell that's how Giantbomb formed because of the Kane and Lynch review. Well, if the general state is "games journalism is poo poo," I personally applaud anyone who calls it out on a regular basis. Of course some of the regulars are offended by this, say they're not really doing anything wrong, and then this happens. It's worth reading John Walker's columns about this whether you agree with him or not because he clarifies a few things that gamers often don't take the time to learn.* Ad banners on a website, for example (RPS is named, I can only assume many large sites work the same), are run by the ad agency/department and the writers have nothing to do with it even when writing a review about the game in question. And, quite rightly, they rarely care about it so it shouldn't often reflect in the review in any way. *not as though I'm saying it's their responsibility to know things, it just helps context. Also if the enthusiast press wasn't in such a sad state this would never be a problem. Jetfire fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Oct 25, 2012 |
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Oct 25, 2012 21:25
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Yes, publishers do abuse game journalism -- On the flip side, I've rarely seen anything that would resemble journalistic integrity from so-called 'game journalists'. They deserve each other, and we all loose.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:33
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Forbes has a pretty balanced write-up of events. No one is coming out of this looking good, the resultant witch hunt is brutal to watch :(
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Oct 25, 2012 21:35
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Jetfire posted:Well, if the general state is "games journalism is poo poo," I personally applaud anyone who calls it out on a regular basis. Of course some of the regulars are offended by this, say they're not really doing anything wrong, and then this happens. While that's largely true for PC/Console site, mobile reviews are a horrible area for trustworthy reporting. I found this article to be pretty depressing http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/09/29/would-you-pay-to-have-your-app-reviewed/
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Oct 25, 2012 21:35
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The Kins posted:Oof, grapevine's saying that Turbine just laid off 20% of staff. Not a great time to be in Boston. As someone who works there, I can confirm this (though it's all over game news at this point). It was a pretty gloomy morning.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:35
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Namen posted:As someone who works there, I can confirm this (though it's all over game news at this point). This seems like horrible timing when the press releases the last week were about hiring Ken Rolston and some others who can't have been cheap.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:42
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Monster w21 Faces posted:That's the thing, it's really nothing out of the ordinary, it's just that being a tv comedian Florence has a lot of fans and so things have been blown out of proportion. Just because it's nothing out of the ordinary that doesn't make it any less wrong. Games "journalists" lapping up free gifts has always been laughable and is but a small part of why the whole reviewing industry is basically FUBAR. What gets people riled up is that she somehow got Eurogamer to pull quotes she made on her (then public) Twitter; also how she's lying about never having reviewed Square-Enix products (there's a scan of a Deus Ex review of hers in The Sun, as well as an online review of Tomb Raider: The Last Guardian). Also, as mentioned in the piece by Erik Kain, she deleted S-E from her former employee list.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:42
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Flummoxed posted:Forbes has a pretty balanced write-up of events. No one is coming out of this looking good, the resultant witch hunt is brutal to watch I really like Forbes' coverage of these brouhahas, but then I remember they published that "Fake Geek Girls" article and wonder what their editors are drinking on alternate days.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:44
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Forbes has become a blogging aggregator years ago; almost all the good articles that involve gaming have been written by Erik Kain, who is a freelancer. The fact that so few people seem to notice this is probably their biggest accomplishment.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:47
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I asked the GamesPress.com forum in March 2008, "Why are you a games journalist?" (Account required.) The majority of the answers were along the lines of "to get free video games, of course."
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Oct 25, 2012 21:51
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Adraeus posted:I asked the GamesPress.com forum in March 2008, "Why are you a games journalist?" (Account required.) The majority of the answers were along the lines of "to get free video games, of course." I feel like if anyone wants to be a games journalist, they should be given the shittiest games first and told to review three a week. "Oh you want free games, do you? Here, take this."
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Oct 25, 2012 21:59
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Hey, I legitimately want Farming Simulator 2013. I want it for learning reasons. 
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Oct 25, 2012 22:09
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quote:I feel like if anyone wants to be a games journalist, they should be given the shittiest games first and told to review three a week. "Oh you want free games, do you? Here, take this." mutata posted:Hey, I legitimately want Farming Simulator 2013. I want it for learning reasons. Indeed - there's a big difference between a bad game and a niche game. I'm really glad that the XXX Simulator games exist and do well, even if I have no real interest in playing them. Also having a genuinely bad game to review is much more rewarding to write than a good game with the bonus that deconstructing it is a real learning experience. A good journalist would fall upon such an opportunity so it is possible that having a few stinkers reviewed intelligently is a good filter to determing which journalists deserve at least a little attention.
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Oct 25, 2012 22:18
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During all this, Laura Wainwright has been digging her own grave with stupid comments. The PA Report did a pretty good job of summing thing sup and her whole shill status and/or blindness to the fact that she comes off as one. She made a show out of her demand to Eurogamer. She removed her previously-listed freelance work for Square-Enix from her Journalisted page. She claims she never reviewed a S-E game; well, I guess this is an exception? She's also removed her Lara Croft: GoL review. Also an exception, yes? Quite sad that someone like that made a good person lose his job. The misogyny is absolutely unwarranted and disgusting, but she deserves the shitstorm and keeps fueling it. e: Also a lot of abloo bloo bloo from the other person who was cited.  And if you're curious about who exactly sold their credibility for a free PS3... Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Oct 25, 2012 |
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Oct 25, 2012 22:22
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19orFewer posted:Indeed - there's a big difference between a bad game and a niche game. I'm really glad that the XXX Simulator games exist and do well, even if I have no real interest in playing them. Well yeah. I just suppose I wanted to make a point that if you want to actually write about games, don't just write about the games you like or want to play. I've got a (paltry) dozen hours in RailWorks myself and think the idea of Farming Simulator pretty cool.
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Oct 25, 2012 22:26
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Katana Gomai posted:What gets people riled up is that she somehow got Eurogamer to pull quotes she made on her (then public) Twitter; There was also the other example mentioned who came into the comments section of the EG article to apologize, and then went on to gently caress it up by simply refusing to see how his one tweet could be considered improper. So much so in fact that someone actually calculated the price of the tweet as £12.12. All that and more on Twitter probably fanned the flames quite a bit. Mango Polo posted:And if you're curious about who exactly sold their credibility for a free PS3... That's 150 pounds worth of tweets.
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Oct 25, 2012 22:30
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To be honest, I wouldn't even bother talking to Cook if his opening line is "what was the point of this?" He's either ridiculously oblivious or a oval office. And speaking of cunts, I like how he makes it sound like his popularity has any implications on his job. If he were a good journalist (he may well be, I never read him), it wouldn't matter what people think of him. But in this day and age, where people like Greg Miller post five new videos of themselves on YouTube every week to cash in on ad revenue, games jounalists as a group seem to think they must be popstars to get paid. I know I am generalizing here, but the sheer amount of inane content has gone through the roof lately. *edit: I'm starting to think this is getting to be too much of a derail. Didn't we have a games journalism thread? Although it might be a bit too samey for a thread of its own. Katana Gomai fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Oct 25, 2012 |
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Oct 25, 2012 22:31
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Amazing, I can't believe this is getting bigger and those in question are just digging their own graves. This is pretty bad.
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Oct 25, 2012 22:45
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Katana Gomai posted:*edit: I'm starting to think this is getting to be too much of a derail. Didn't we have a games journalism thread? Although it might be a bit too samey for a thread of its own. Well, to pull this back a bit more towards the game industry proper.  Have to wonder if any/how many publishers are very, very mad right now. At this point I wish we'd get names. Name and shame.
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Oct 25, 2012 23:01
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:To anyone who does crunch with a spouse, how do you deal with it? We've started some crunch and my fiance is still trying to get used to me being at work for 12 hours a day. I've been making sure to take time out and spend at least two hours with her and I eat dinner with her every night. I've had to combine long hours with family. Before we had kids my wife and I made a point of having dinner together. If we were working late, I would skip the OT meals and meet her for dinner at a restaurant nearby. It gave me a proper break, and let us have conversations while we were both still awake, as opposed to late at night when I was home and she was sleeping. After kids it gets harder to work extended hours. Child care has hard stops in terms of time, and there were days where I simply had to leave work unfinished to go pick up the kids. My wife and I both work, and we went the route of a nanny we pay by the hour as opposed to daycare with a fixed schedule. We needed the flexibility, plus in this city it was the cheaper option.
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Oct 25, 2012 23:06
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Mango Polo posted:Well, to pull this back a bit more towards the game industry proper. You'd need to be mental to attack Rab Florence, he's lethal with a 2 litre bottle of ginger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZthGdjGX0E
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Oct 25, 2012 23:14
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Catching up on the Doritogate stuff, not sure if I'm supposed to feel bad, highlights some scummy practices by people journalism seems better off without.
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Oct 25, 2012 23:35
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This is loving amazing to watch. From the sidelines. With my bag of doritos and dew. 
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Oct 25, 2012 23:48
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I have no idea what's going on.
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Oct 25, 2012 23:50
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ceebee posted:I have no idea what's going on. I was going to just empty quote this but I also seriously have no idea what is going on
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Oct 25, 2012 23:56
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Sorry to derail the doritogate discussions, but I have a quick question. Is anyone working or has worked at ArenaNet? I might be flying over for their internship interview, which I assume will be a group based interview, and would be interested in knowing a bit more about working there if anyone has experience.
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Oct 26, 2012 00:01
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A friend worked there as an artist. From what I gather he didn't really like it. He said he didn't learn much or get paid well. Take this with a grain of salt as it is not from my own experience. I have no personal opinion on them one way or the other.
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Oct 26, 2012 01:58
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