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oxbrain posted:No, that 4th axis won't be very usable as a lathe. Wandering Orange posted:To expand a bit: the 4th axis on a mill is just like any other axis and is used for precision positioning; it shouldn't be used to spin the work piece up to x-hundred RPM like a lathe. Adding a lathe headstock onto the table of a CNC mill is doable but in my opinion it would be better to have two separate machines so you don't have to compromise the ability of one or the other. thanks to both of you!
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Oct 22, 2012 20:38
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Leperflesh posted:Condemning 3d printing as a useful device long-term because it will never be used to make I-beams or mass produce soda cans is a bit like condemning the bicycle as a useful device long-term because it will never become a freight train or a cruise ship. That's fair enough and I more or less agree with you, I was specifically getting at the weird subset of the community that thinks people just making everything at home for pennies is just around the corner which will usher in a new etc etc. The fact that 3D printers are extremely useful for certain purposes is external to the perfect storm of nerd fantasy-daydreaming that crops up a lot from what I've seen. S'why my beef was with the maker community, not the use of 3D printers for legitimately-advantageous and effective purposes. Shoodna brought it up, though 
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Oct 22, 2012 20:55
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Leperflesh posted:
Aluminum more expensive than plastic, news at 11.
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Oct 23, 2012 00:03
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It's the machining process that adds the most expense, not the material. Especially for R&D work. We have some 3d printers at work. 2 are the plastic kind to make molds for casting and the others use a laser to sinter a cobalt chrome powder. Chauncey fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Oct 23, 2012 |
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Oct 23, 2012 02:25
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 So this is the widest Weld I've ever had to do. 4 3/4"wide and 2 5/8"deep. when I was done the cap was 19 passes with a 5/32 wide using 9015 b9 Rod. it took 7 days of round the clock welding to fill the joint up. oh yeah 500f preheat.
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Oct 23, 2012 03:43
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So in a situation like that, what technical reason is there to not just stick a piece of filler steel plate or pipe or whatever in there and then weld it on both sides?
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Oct 23, 2012 07:44
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Archives posted:Aluminum more expensive than plastic, news at 11. So far the largest expense has been the garnet. If you don't add in the cost of SolidWorks. But the point is that 3d printing is useful for something, which it is.
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Oct 23, 2012 08:01
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SmokeyXIII posted:
Atom Arc electrodes?
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Oct 23, 2012 17:29
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wargamerROB posted:So in a situation like that, what technical reason is there to not just stick a piece of filler steel plate or pipe or whatever in there a then weld it on both sides? because the wall thickness of the pipe is such that with the bevel preparation it just ends up that wide. there is only a 5/32"gap in the root of that Weld.
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Oct 23, 2012 22:00
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SmokeyXIII posted:because the wall thickness of the pipe is such that with the bevel preparation it just ends up that wide. there is only a 5/32"gap in the root of that Weld. Jesus. What does that pipe carry?
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Oct 24, 2012 03:59
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rotor posted:Dear Metalworking Thread, 3: CNC 3 Axis Stepper Motor Kit with 270 oz-in motor and KL-4030 Bipolar Driver with 36V /9.7A Power Supply (110V/220VAC): $339 1149 for the mill from taig 339 for the controls 150 for a mach 3 license(deep groove doesn't include this) 100~ total for shipping $1738 total with mach 3 ($1588 without you could run emc2) I use my taig for mostly engraving jewelry, weapons,and pcb's. Tho I will cut aluminum robot parts every once and a while. Adding a flood coolant system makes it sexy for unattended cutting and you can push feeds a little harder. I have had around .003 backlash for the past couple years, and has never been an issue for me. 10,000rpm spindle is pretty drat awesome for small stuff. It will cut steel but only with light dept of cuts. It's a hobby machine do don't expect HAAS machine feeds and speeds. What do you really plan to make? Here is a taig cnc mill with a lathe spindle on the bed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Munq_hXxTs Salsa time.
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Oct 24, 2012 05:00
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Hey, I've been monitoring my local craigslist for backsmithing items and there's several anvils on there for very reasonable prices. I'm in the Buffalo, NY area. I'd be happy to pick one up for anyone who's interested and is within a couple hours drive time. Here's a very nice looking Vulcan 175$ This is a Trenton 55lb, looks like it's in good shape 175$ Are there any folks around here who do this kind of stuff? I'd love to hold metal while someone whales on it, or have someone help me with my forge.
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Oct 24, 2012 05:05
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wargamerROB posted:Jesus. What does that pipe carry? Just water... Plain old hot water... its the main steam line for a power plant.
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Oct 24, 2012 05:48
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evilhat posted:I'm gonna be biased and against the grain here, because I own both a Taig cnc mill and a Taig lathe. I personally love my Taig cnc mill and have owned it for around 5 years now. I bought the cnc ready mill for around $1100, and bought drivers,motors, and a controller off ebay. http://www.kelinginc.net/CNCNEMA23Package3x.html is also a good place to buy stuff. This is all you really need, and a box/piece of aluminum to put it all on. I dont really want to fuss building my own. I am also notoriously bad with electrics and if i get the chance i will surely hook up something backwards. If I can pay an extra few hundred to have things set up and covered by a company, i'll go ahead and do it. quote:I use my taig for mostly engraving jewelry, weapons,and pcb's. Tho I will cut aluminum robot parts every once and a while. Adding a flood coolant system makes it sexy for unattended cutting and you can push feeds a little harder. I have had around .003 backlash for the past couple years, and has never been an issue for me. 10,000rpm spindle is pretty drat awesome for small stuff. It will cut steel but only with light dept of cuts. It's a hobby machine do don't expect HAAS machine feeds and speeds. quote:What do you really plan to make? goofy stuff. kids toys, gear trains, iris valves, just stuff.
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Oct 24, 2012 07:11
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Uncle Enzo posted:Hey, I've been monitoring my local craigslist for backsmithing items and there's several anvils on there for very reasonable prices. I'm in the Buffalo, NY area. I'd be happy to pick one up for anyone who's interested and is within a couple hours drive time. According to the minor bit of research I did, that vulcan is a steel faced cast iron body. Seems like it would be a good buy. Great price. The 55 pounder would because little on the light side for forge duty, but fine for a workshop.
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Oct 24, 2012 17:11
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Slung Blade posted:According to the minor bit of research I did, that vulcan is a steel faced cast iron body. Seems like it would be a good buy. Great price. Oh, I have a perfectly good anvil that's pretty much the exact same size and weight as the Vulcan. I had read this anvil buying guide and I remembered that Vulcan was a reputable anvil maker. Since I have an anvil and I only really need one (at present), I was offering to buy if for someone in the northeast who wanted one. I know in the thread people have had trouble finding/buying anvils for anything like a reasonable price. So if there are any thread readers in Toronto or anywhere within a few hours of Buffalo that are looking for an anvil, I could get it for you and we could meet halfway or something. Uncle Enzo fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Oct 24, 2012 |
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Oct 24, 2012 17:42
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Dang that Vulcan 
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Oct 24, 2012 18:33
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I need a low cost (relatively) machine that is cheap and 4 or 5 axis that I can grind some engineering ceramics on for some tests of things. Accuracy is more important than precision but in general not working with any crazy tolerances. I have a super precise micromill that easily holds tenths and can be dialed in to better than that. However I want to do some grinding and dont want to gently caress that machine up. I am considering a few different options for this setup. Requird work envelope is approx 4"x4"x4". 1)Tormach PCNC with 4th axis option. This comes in at around 15,000 tooled 2)Is there a DIY option for such a thing? I am not a fan of the Taig types but this might be something they are well suited for as the grinding dust is going to gently caress poo poo up. Id assume this would come in at around $5000 tooled. 3)Small CNC grinder? I know pertty much nothing about these
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Oct 25, 2012 00:59
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rotor posted:I dont really want to fuss building my own. I am also notoriously bad with electrics and if i get the chance i will surely hook up something backwards. If I can pay an extra few hundred to have things set up and covered by a company, i'll go ahead and do it. I'd just written a big old post but missed you saying you're not interested in doing any CNC conversions, so I guess none of it made any sense in that context. But yeah don't expect a CNC machine to just be pressing a button and it doing everything for you. There's alot involved in just keeping it set up and adjusted as it wears and subsides over time. You're not going to get away with avoiding learning to machine by buying a CNC mill. It might even make it more difficult. Myself I'd suggest that if you're really serious, then you shouldn't approach it half assedly and should just start off with the usual mini mill/ mini lathe combo. You could easily afford both as well as extras with a $2500 budget. Just hanging out on any hobby engineering forum would let you appreciate what can be acheived with manual machines. As well as the fact that alot of interesting things can be acheived without any expensive tools at all. Like this guy's marble machines are just blocks of whittled wood and bent wire. Things like irises would be easier to make with sheet metal, tin snips, and file than trying to cut thin metal on any mill (i've read it's quite a challenge just holding it down). If you refuse to put in any effort you'll have a hard job making anything interesting or worthwhile. But seriously if you just want to throw money at any old toy or gadget I'm sure that for $2500 there'd be something more interesting out there than a machine tool to collect dust with.
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Oct 25, 2012 16:14
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Lets Play Arson posted:I'd just written a big old post but missed you saying you're not interested in doing any CNC conversions, so I guess none of it made any sense in that context. no, this i understand, and I'm ok with adjustment and maintenance and whatnot. I've read a bunch of articles about tramming and ... that other ... thing you have to do. And I understand I'll need to learn about what feed rates and cut depths are appropriate for what tool in what material, and that's part of the fun. But i mostly want to make fairly complex shapes and I think that would be easiest to do on a cnc because im a huge spaz. I definitely appreciate the hand-work of the plain mill + lathe but it seems like producing interesting pieces on those is a much larger time investment.
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Oct 25, 2012 17:56
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what I dont have is a lot of spare time, unfortunately. so i sort of see the cnc as the quickest route to building fun things. does that make sense?
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Oct 25, 2012 17:57
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rotor posted:what I dont have is a lot of spare time, unfortunately. so i sort of see the cnc as the quickest route to building fun things. does that make sense? I think we all get what your TRYING to do. Unfortunately I don't think any machine is capable of delivering on the 'load design, press print, get object'. CNC and 3d printing have this in common: The printing part is the easy part, setup, clamping, specification, zeroing, cut depth, print height, adhesion, slip, backlash, tool sharpness, heat, cooling, fans, chips, etc- the devil is in all of these little details. Remember, 40,000+ CNC machines running in high end fab shops employ a full time guy who's job it is to run and maintain the thing (though the CNC is also run all the time). You should expect to put in a similar, if not greater, amount of effort to run and maintain a $2000 CNC machine.
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Oct 25, 2012 18:45
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Linux Assassin posted:I think we all get what your TRYING to do. Unfortunately I don't think any machine is capable of delivering on the 'load design, press print, get object'. CNC and 3d printing have this in common: The printing part is the easy part, setup, clamping, specification, zeroing, cut depth, print height, adhesion, slip, backlash, tool sharpness, heat, cooling, fans, chips, etc- the devil is in all of these little details. Come on guys CNC is not that hard, I started with a cnc mill and no machining experience except maybe a cross slide vise and a drill press. Ton's of people out there build their own DIY cnc routers and mills everyday. You really need to look at this from the hobbyist point of view, no one here is talking about 24/7 manufacturing and pushing tooling to the limit on feeds and speeds. Hell most of the hobby world runs on 1/8" end mills running .0625 dept of cut, contouring flat plate, and interpolating holes. Seriously it is all +/-.005, 2.5D, and it's all aluminum. With the taig all you will ever do is vacuum it every once and a while, and oil the ways before you start a couple jobs. I'm actually a little lazy with mine and it has been months since I have cleaned and oiled it. I do run flood coolant with a corrosion inhibitor tho... The only piece of the puzzle left is the cam program. Mastercam is the easyest but most expensive. Bobcam is middle range (You can get the package from 200-300, not the $2k they advertise, but their sale staff is a pain.) VisualMill 6 standard is not bad. MeshCAM is very good and easy to use. If going the 3d contouring route $250 (400 if you want the cut viewer for verification.) Does anyone else here run a small hobbyist machine at home? I run a Tormach and a Bridgeport at work, but I still love making my own stuff at home on the taig and FireBall V90.
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Oct 25, 2012 20:02
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evilhat posted:Come on guys CNC is not that hard, I started with a cnc mill and no machining experience except maybe a cross slide vise and a drill press. Ton's of people out there build their own DIY cnc routers and mills everyday. You really need to look at this from the hobbyist point of view, no one here is talking about 24/7 manufacturing and pushing tooling to the limit on feeds and speeds. Hell most of the hobby world runs on 1/8" end mills running .0625 dept of cut, contouring flat plate, and interpolating holes. Seriously it is all +/-.005, 2.5D, and it's all aluminum. With the taig all you will ever do is vacuum it every once and a while, and oil the ways before you start a couple jobs. I'm actually a little lazy with mine and it has been months since I have cleaned and oiled it. I do run flood coolant with a corrosion inhibitor tho... No one is trying to discourage him. In fact several people were pointing out 'you know for $x less you could just roll your own using the following components...', and it was his response to that statement that I think has made so many point out these issues.
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Oct 25, 2012 20:44
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Yeah it sounds like the equivalent to "I really want to make a sword, how cheaply can I start blacksmithing" (which is coincidentally the easiest way to troll me- asking me if I make swords, that is). In other news, I made some leaves.  Aluminium was a throwaway test piece, the two large bronze leaves (you can see the butt of the other at the top of the frame, with the wire 'stem' brazed on) and the four small ones are going to become a pair of brooch pins, to hold a Greek chiton on my lumpy torso for halloween. I'll bend the stem around a rod 4 or 5 times to make a spring section and then forge down the long bit of the wire into a big-rear end needle (think of a homebrew safety-pin sorta thing). Now I just need to figure out how to capture the tip of the needle and make sure stuff can't slip off the pin and disrobe me. I wanted to roll an edge of the leaf around to form a kind of basket-ey thing to catch the pin, but it'd look weird as is because I didn't make the leaves with that in mind. Welp~ My linework look like a dishrag, I am well aware (look at the two times I completely hosed up the veining on the bronze leaf and didn't even attempt to hide it lmbo. Also, the many slipped liner-marks parallel to the actual veins, because I Am Bad At Punch Control)
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Oct 25, 2012 21:35
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Is a 3D printer the better solution? Not that I want to discourage anyone from picking up machining and CNC experience but 3D printing seems better suited to producing complex shapes on a whim with the least amount of time/money/experience. It certainly seems like the most recent printers come in more of a plug-and-play state than a CNC mill.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:42
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Wandering Orange posted:Is a 3D printer the better solution? Not that I want to discourage anyone from picking up machining and CNC experience but 3D printing seems better suited to producing complex shapes on a whim with the least amount of time/money/experience. It certainly seems like the most recent printers come in more of a plug-and-play state than a CNC mill.
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Oct 25, 2012 21:45
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evilhat posted:Come on guys CNC is not that hard, I started with a cnc mill and no machining experience... I think a lot of the tension is coming from the fact that a lot of us here work in trade, not just as a hobby, so when someone makes light of our years or even decades of experience, even if dimensions really aren't critical, it sort of gets us riled up, or maybe I'm just spergy about machining. E: Not that that fellow is 'making light', it's just the attitude of "buy a machine, make things, profit, no training!" that makes me twitchy
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Oct 25, 2012 23:20
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Random Number posted:I think a lot of the tension is coming from the fact that a lot of us here work in trade, not just as a hobby, so when someone makes light of our years or even decades of experience, even if dimensions really aren't critical, it sort of gets us riled up, or maybe I'm just spergy about machining. i never said anything about profiting, it's just for goofing off. my father & grandfather were both machinists, i know it's not a simple thing. but I also know that a lot of the difficulty results from time & money constraints. im attracted to a cnc machine because there's no way I'm going to cut complex shapes by hand (not anytime soon anyway).
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Oct 25, 2012 23:56
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:Here is the single best oxy-acetylene welding and cutting resource I've found on the internet so far: Precise heat control is pretty hard, is there a technique to just focus the heat/molten pool so that it doesn't heat so much of the surrounding area? It may be because I'm doing it to slow but I can't seem to get to that stage of molten pooling to fuse without circling over the area for half a minute. I'm paying attention to getting the right neutral flame and everything, at least I think I am. I think I may want to buy a stick welder. But is there any point in purchasing one if I'm probably going to want to do TIG in the near future?
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Oct 26, 2012 00:10
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Rotor, don't forget to budget for a vise, parallels, either a grinder to sharpen your mills and time learning to sharpen them or a lot of mills if you're treating them as disposable, and probably more vise accessories. Workholding is everything.
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Oct 26, 2012 00:16
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The Proc posted:Rotor, don't forget to budget for a vise, parallels, either a grinder to sharpen your mills and time learning to sharpen them or a lot of mills if you're treating them as disposable, and probably more vise accessories. Workholding is everything. good hehe ... advise!! xD what are parallels? I was looking at this: http://www.mechanicalphilosopher.com/kbsharpening.pdf seems like a decent idea, and simple. seem like a reasonable thing?
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Oct 26, 2012 00:38
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porcellus posted:poo poo, I should have read this before I invested in an Oxyfuel rig. I'm an idiot. I read it was really flexible, I assumed it was flexible enough to perform fillet welds. Gah. I read a lot about it on various websites and forums, just what people have to say about it, and it turns out that their advice didn't encompass everything... I should have stuck to reading about it through books. Get a tig/stick machine. You can get a nice little machine for the cost of a plain stick unit if you go used.
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Oct 26, 2012 01:23
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rotor posted:good hehe ... advise!! xD Parallels are flat steel bars that come in precision matched pairs. When you have a workpiece that's too short to reach the bottom of the vise you need a pair of them to support the work so it can't tip over or slip inside the jaws. That sharpener is pretty neat, you should make one!
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Oct 26, 2012 01:50
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i totally should!
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Oct 26, 2012 02:44
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Holy poo poo I got two pieces of metal to stick together, hit it with a hammer, and they didn't fall apart. Thinking about buying some steel from tractor supply and building a welding table.
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Oct 26, 2012 03:24
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porcellus posted:poo poo, I should have read this before I invested in an Oxyfuel rig. I'm an idiot. I read it was really flexible, I assumed it was flexible enough to perform fillet welds. Gah. I read a lot about it on various websites and forums, just what people have to say about it, and it turns out that their advice didn't encompass everything... I should have stuck to reading about it through books. I'm not really sure what you're trying to braze, maybe you could explain it a bit more? You can definitely do fillet joints with an oxy acetylene torch. It's a popular way to join tubes on handmade bikes. 
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Oct 26, 2012 03:54
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thecobra posted:Get a tig/stick machine. You can get a nice little machine for the cost of a plain stick unit if you go used. All stick machines can do TIG. porcellus posted:poo poo, I should have read this before I invested in an Oxyfuel rig. I'm an idiot. I read it was really flexible, I assumed it was flexible enough to perform fillet welds. Gah. I read a lot about it on various websites and forums, just what people have to say about it, and it turns out that their advice didn't encompass everything... I should have stuck to reading about it through books. You aren't getting enough heat output from your torch. If you need to sit there blasting heat into your weldment for minutes to get the thing molten you either need a) a bigger tip or b) MORE POWER, crank up your acetylene (edit: not past 15 psi, ever) and oxygen! SmokeyXIII fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Oct 26, 2012 |
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Oct 26, 2012 04:06
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Chickenbisket posted:I'm not really sure what you're trying to braze, maybe you could explain it a bit more? You can definitely do fillet joints with an oxy acetylene torch. It's a popular way to join tubes on handmade bikes. I think I gave you the wrong idea though, I'm trying to weld a butt joint in mild steel.. but by the time I achieve a molten pool in the joint (which I've beveled), I've spent way too long in that area and warped the peice or the surrounding area is red. quote:You aren't getting enough heat output from your torch. If you need to sit there blasting heat into your weldment for minutes to get the thing molten you either need a) a bigger tip or b) MORE POWER, crank up your acetylene (edit: not past 15 psi, ever) and oxygen!
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Oct 26, 2012 08:08
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SmokeyXIII posted:All stick machines can do TIG. Getting a machine that was designed for it has obvious advantages over rigging up something in the garage, most likely using something that doesn't provide a decent enough duty cycle for someone to learn with.
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Oct 26, 2012 12:41
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