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Preordered!! Very excited for this - Vertical is great, (some) Gundam is great, comics are great!!
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Oct 26, 2012 05:32
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Tae posted:I don't like the Endless Waltz designs from a utility standpoint. The clown mask on Heavy Arms is dumb, and I love the little laser knife. Sandrock also needed to keep his beam Uzi. I've always had this perspective on Gundam Wing: everything about it was poo poo except for the grunt mobile suits.
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Oct 26, 2012 05:33
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Decided to bite and pre-order the Gundam Origin comics. I need to read more anyways.
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Oct 26, 2012 06:16
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God this has me nervous. Only 80 copies of Vol. 1 coming to Canada? Madness. It's like pre-ordering a Mondo poster. I was hoping they'd be all over bookshelves, but I guess Gundam is getting pretty drat obscure in North America 
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Oct 26, 2012 08:04
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Are there ever any good deals on 1/100 gundam models? I remember a long time ago I was able to score a zaku and rx-78-2 for like $12 each, but since then the cheapest I ever see them are $30-100, which is a bit outside of what I'm willing to pay.
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Oct 26, 2012 08:35
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I always preferred the EW designs because they fit Wing better. The TV design of wing zero would fit better in a more serious actual real robot show, whereas the EW wing zero kind of matches the show's silly philosophical nature. EW Nataku and Heavyarms are just straight up better than their TV variants. Sandrock looks worse and Deathscythe is 50/50, I love both its designs.
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Oct 26, 2012 12:56
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Meow Tse-tung posted:Are there ever any good deals on 1/100 gundam models? I remember a long time ago I was able to score a zaku and rx-78-2 for like $12 each, but since then the cheapest I ever see them are $30-100, which is a bit outside of what I'm willing to pay. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3472857 - this is your thread for Gunpla. To answer your question though, you're almost never gonna see MG kits for 12 dollars each.
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Oct 26, 2012 15:59
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I pre-ordered both volumes of The Origin on Amazon and it said it'll ship in June (when Vol. 2 is released). Will it seriously hold my order back until then? I used the free shipping. Edit: Nevermind - if you use the free shipping, you can only get bulk shipping. I switched to standard and now I'll get two packages on their respective release dates. Cromlech fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Oct 26, 2012 |
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Oct 26, 2012 21:02
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Cromlech posted:I pre-ordered both volumes of The Origin on Amazon and it said it'll ship in June (when Vol. 2 is released). Will it seriously hold my order back until then? I used the free shipping. Sometimes they'll split the order for free if there's a long time between releases of preordered items but you can't count on it happening.
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Oct 26, 2012 21:28
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Is there a roughly agreed upon list of series by quality? I've seen the entirety of Wing (don't start), 08th MS Team, a few episodes of SEED (didn't much care for it), and have always meant to check out Zeta because I remember it being praised ages back when Wing was on in the US. I think I also watched Char's Counterattack... I started playing Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3 and it's making me want to go and look at older material but I'd also like to know what most people agree is the best.
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Oct 28, 2012 03:52
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The first season of Gundam 00's pretty drat good. The second's nowhere near the same quality, sadly, but the first is moderately self-contained.
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Oct 28, 2012 04:09
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Most people recommend the original MSG, though you can watch the three movies to get through it faster. Zeta and ZZ each have their pros and cons; I enjoyed ZZ a lot more than Zeta, but I think Zeta has a better overall plot. The Turn-A simulwatchathon is going great, but you might benefit from watching that last.
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Oct 28, 2012 04:13
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Syrant posted:Is there a roughly agreed upon list of series by quality? I've seen the entirety of Wing (don't start), 08th MS Team, a few episodes of SEED (didn't much care for it), and have always meant to check out Zeta because I remember it being praised ages back when Wing was on in the US. I think I also watched Char's Counterattack... Pretty much all the UC Gundam is worth watching apart from maybe Double Zeta, depending on whether you can take the abrupt tonal shift from super serious to zany antics and back again. Also you don't really miss much by watching the movies of the original MS Gundam rather then the TV series. A tolerance for 70's/80's/early 90's animation is required though.
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Oct 28, 2012 04:25
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OP gives a pretty decent rundown.
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Oct 28, 2012 04:31
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Syrant posted:Is there a roughly agreed upon list of series by quality? I've seen the entirety of Wing (don't start), 08th MS Team, a few episodes of SEED (didn't much care for it), and have always meant to check out Zeta because I remember it being praised ages back when Wing was on in the US. I think I also watched Char's Counterattack... Yeah, if you're interested in the classic UC universe/Zeta Gundam in particular, start from the original series or the movie compilations thereof and then watch Zeta afterwards. Zeta Gundam is definitely a great show, but in large part because it's a great sequel. Rewatch Char's Counterattack after going through the original series and Zeta and you'll also have a much better appreciation of what's going on. I don't know about consensus, but my take on it is that folks who like Gundam in general enough to watch the majority of the franchise tend to single out Turn A Gundam and G Gundam as particularly good, but also as particularly different and unusual, so you might want to avoid them until you've checked out other series. I do agree that Turn A is drat good, though.
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Oct 28, 2012 05:57
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Syrant posted:Is there a roughly agreed upon list of series by quality? I've seen the entirety of Wing (don't start), 08th MS Team, a few episodes of SEED (didn't much care for it), and have always meant to check out Zeta because I remember it being praised ages back when Wing was on in the US. I think I also watched Char's Counterattack... Gundam -> Z Gundam -> CCA are a good starting point. Sprinkle in some 0080, maybe some 08th MS Team. If you like those, go on to G and Turn-A. By that point Unicorn should be finished and that will probably be worth watching. That's pretty much everything that doesn't include the caviat "... but it has a lot of poo poo involved." Avoid Gundam AGE, Gundam SEED Destiny and Gundam 00 S2 entirely.
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Oct 28, 2012 06:19
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Thanks for all the replies! I forgot about G Gundam, I watched that. As far as tolerance for early animation? I rather like retro animation.
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Oct 28, 2012 09:25
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ImpAtom posted:Gundam -> Z Gundam -> CCA are a good starting point. Sprinkle in some 0080, maybe some 08th MS Team. If you like those, go on to G and Turn-A. By that point Unicorn should be finished and that will probably be worth watching. That's pretty much everything that doesn't include the caviat "... but it has a lot of poo poo involved." I would also add in ZZ and also F91. I will shoot whoever said G-savior.
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Oct 28, 2012 09:48
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Entirely personal opinion list go: MSG: Movies and series both have pro's and con's. watch one of either. Z: Watch this ZZ: Personally liked most of it, give it a try. CCA: Yup F91: It's short so why not. Pretty fun Victory: Kill em all; watch this. 0080: Watch this. 08th ms team: Watch this 0083 stardust memory: Looks good, story is blargh. good MS designs. Unicorn: Very good, not done yet. G Gundam:  Gundam X: I personally really like it but it's perfectly forgettable as well. Gundam Wing: Bitching grunt designs, nostalgia and drinking game recommended Turn A: Amazing SEED: Pretty decent for the "retell msg with new generation" idea but also lovely in a lot of regards. SEED:D hahaha, no 00 S1 is pretty good, s2 is so-so but overall worth watching. The movie sucks dick but it's short so if you finished s2 just watch it. AGE: Ugh, only the second gen was okay and not worth watching it for.
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Oct 28, 2012 10:30
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Zedd posted:AGE: Ugh, only the second gen was okay and not worth watching it for. Wait, really? I found the second gen by far the worst part of the show and Asemu absolutely unsufferable as a protagonist. But then again I gather most people didn't really like Kio even though he's a sane man's take on Kira, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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Oct 28, 2012 17:02
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Son Ryo posted:he's a sane man's take on Kira I can't comprehend what you have typed here.
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Oct 28, 2012 17:11
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Son Ryo posted:Wait, really? I found the second gen by far the worst part of the show and Asemu absolutely unsufferable as a protagonist. But then again I gather most people didn't really like Kio even though he's a sane man's take on Kira, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. You hate/like AGE for all the wrong reasons.
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Oct 28, 2012 17:19
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ActionZero posted:I can't comprehend what you have typed here. I actually made a short list when I was watching the show, let me see if I can find it... Ah, here it is. I don't know if this stuff deserves being put in spoilers but it won't hurt anything either. Ways in which Kio is better than Kira: He's still a child, so he's not old enough to know better He's fighting for a side, instead of deciding both sides are wrong and striking out on his own He's got a reason for not killing the enemy (they're being deceived by a mad dictator) instead of Kira deciding to not kill people just because he met one enemy pilot who was a nice guy
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Oct 28, 2012 17:30
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Son Ryo posted:I actually made a short list when I was watching the show, let me see if I can find it... ... Wow, you don't actually seem to have grasped anything about Gundam SEED and I wasn't actually sure it was possible to misunderstand something as simple as Gundam SEED.  Kio Asuno is literally Kira Yamato but worse in every way. He is stupider, his plot makes less sense, his reasons for doing anything make no sense. Nothing you actually described there aside from "he is a kid" applies to Kio. (and considering we had pilots the same age like Usso, that doesn't even really work there.) He's fighting for "a side" in that he's actively refusing to fight while hanging out on the Diva, and nobody takes his loving robot away. Everyone around him tells him he is being a god damned moron and he just keeps on keeping on while letting a lot of innocent people get killed because of his stupidity. This, of course, turns out to be right path and he miraculously saves the world through the act of glowing blue and ramming into poo poo. "The opposing factions are being deceived and manipulated by a mad dictator" has been true since literally the original Gundam. It is kind of one of the reoccurring themes. The problem is that the Vagans lack even the vaguely sympathetic aspect of those other factions. They are all crazy people who murder entire cities without remorse. There is like one meaningfully sympathetic Vagan soldier and he goes crazy and murders his own allies before committing suicide-by-Gundam. At least in Gundam SEED you theoretically had a bunch of ZAFT and EA dudes who defected when they realized how crazy their allies were. By the end of Gundam AGE there are literally no Vagan characters left alive that had any screentime whatsoever. Not a single one. Yes, Gundam AGE's villains make less sense and are less coherent than Gundam SEED's. They're even less sensible than Gundam SEED Destiny's and that takes god damned effort. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 17:49
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Let's not forget that at the end AGE wanted us to believe that the mad dictator in question was just a good person with good intentions that went astray and was absolutely not a genocidal lunatic, no sir.
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Oct 28, 2012 18:03
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ImpAtom posted:... Wow, you don't actually seem to have grasped anything about Gundam SEED and I wasn't actually sure it was possible to misunderstand something as simple as Gundam SEED. If you think I'm missing something about SEED, please explain it to me-- I've always hated Kira the most and SEED the most of any Gundam series. I even liked Shinn and SEED Destiny more than Kira and SEED. EDIT: And about Usso, he's the exception, not the rule. He was exceptionally mature for his age and I certainly don't think he's the standard all other pilots of that age should be held to. Son Ryo fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 18:30
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Son Ryo posted:If you think I'm missing something about SEED, please explain it to me-- I've always hated Kira the most and SEED the most of any Gundam series. I even liked Shinn and SEED Destiny more than Kira and SEED. Well, to begin with: Kira Yamato is a Coordinator. Thus, his sympathy for PLANT comes not just from the fact that his best friend is there, but the fact that it is a nation made up of people like him. The Earth, on the other hand, is literally attempting to kill all Coordinators. He therefore has a pretty reasonable (for the setting) basis for feeling more sympathy towards ZAFT than the EA. A major part of the early conflict comes from the fact that he really has no reason to help the Alliance, but abandoning them means his friends will die. By the time he's got full-on Stupid No-Kill, he's spend a lot of time around members of both the Alliance and ZAFT, long enough to basically come to the conclusion "Hey, both sides have good people and lovely people." As in many shows, SEED basically boils down to "The people in charge are assholes, but that same assholery doesn't necessary carry down to the people." Both Azrael and Patrick Zala are killed when one of their own people betrays them because of how crazy they are. It's still a stupid character arc, mind, but it's one that at least is built up in the show's worldsetting and follows a coherent line backed up by including sympathetic (in theory) characters from all sides. The show goes pretty fuckin' dumby by having all the sympathetic characters abandon their sides to join one new super-faction, but whatever. It's a childish and frankly embarrassingly simplistic idea but nobody is arguing SEED is good. The guy who met one good person and suddenly decided to stop killing was Kio, not Kira. He meets Lu and inexplicably his brain falls out and he decides that Ezelcant is an okay guy despite Ezelcant's stated goal being wiping out most of humanity. From there he becomes captain pacifism and refuses to kill anyone. Every other Vagan he meets is an irredeemable sociopath except maybe Deen (who dies within five seconds anyway.) AGE utterly manages to fail to make the Vagans a sympathetic or understandable side. Zeheart is the biggest failure here. He is our one sympathetic Vagan, an iconic that maybe the Vagans are not all crazy assholes. He discovers the truth of the Eden Plan and embraces it wholeheartedly. Meanwhile the Federation in AGE is never actually shown to be really bad. Every single "bad guy" in the Federation turns out to be a Vagan traitor. The closest otherwise is Flit Asuno, and even then his second in command basically undermines him every time he tries to do something atrocity-related. The closest we get is "150 years ago the Federation abandoned Mars." Everyone involved in that is long dead by the time the show starts, aside from Ezelcant's cryo-frozen rear end. Every Federation soldier we meet is a pretty cool person. Even the rear end in a top hat from the first generation who tried to arrest Grodek turns out to be a good guy. It's a faction formed entirely of chill bros and traitors. SEED and AGE both try to do the "both sides are just being mislead and peace is possible" storyline, but SEED at least is willing to make pretenses towards justify it. AGE can't even pull that off correctly. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Oct 28, 2012 |
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Oct 28, 2012 18:45
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ImpAtom posted:Well, to begin with: I understand what you're saying, but ImpAtom posted:He's fighting for "a side" in that he's actively refusing to fight while hanging out on the Diva, and nobody takes his loving robot away. Everyone around him tells him he is being a god damned moron and he just keeps on keeping on while letting a lot of innocent people get killed because of his stupidity. This, of course, turns out to be right path and he miraculously saves the world through the act of glowing blue and ramming into poo poo. That was another thing I kind of liked about AGE-- nobody was afraid to call Kio out on his bullshit. I also interpreted the ending in a slightly different way than you did-- while Kio's actions certainly led to peace in the end, it really seemed like he wasn't particularly in the right and other ways of fighting would have led to peace faster, but that Kio just couldn't understand that, and he'd have to suffer through the consequences of the deaths he had caused once he was old enough to understand. Really, I thought the fact that Kio was just a kid who didn't yet understand the consequences of his actions was illustrated pretty well when he bargained away the Gundam's blueprints for medicine not even for all of the Vagans, but just for a single girl. ImpAtom posted:"The opposing factions are being deceived and manipulated by a mad dictator" has been true since literally the original Gundam. It is kind of one of the reoccurring themes. The problem is that the Vagans lack even the vaguely sympathetic aspect of those other factions. They are all crazy people who murder entire cities without remorse. There is like one meaningfully sympathetic Vagan soldier and he goes crazy and murders his own allies before committing suicide-by-Gundam. At least in Gundam SEED you theoretically had a bunch of ZAFT and EA dudes who defected when they realized how crazy their allies were. By the end of Gundam AGE there are literally no Vagan characters left alive that had any screentime whatsoever. Not a single one. Well, you have to admit that the villain of AGE is more insane than most. At the very least, most Gundam villains don't condemn their people to a slow, painful death by disease because of some twisted idea of eugenics. The Vagans really are aliens in that regard-- they're born and raised on a world far from earth and taught from birth that Earthlings are evil and oppressing them. It's really like they're a whole different species than Earthlings-- they could never even conceive of leaving Vagan because they don't consider Earthlings to be human at all. I really don't know where you got the idea of Kio deciding Ezelcant was an okay guy from either. It really seemed to me like he wanted to save the Vagans from Ezelcant, not that he wanted to help or save Ezelcant at all. What Kio saw was the living conditions on Vagan, which were completely intolerable, and being caused not by anyone from Earth but simply by Ezelcant himself.
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Oct 28, 2012 18:51
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Son Ryo posted:I really don't know where you got the idea of Kio deciding Ezelcant was an okay guy from either. It really seemed to me like he wanted to save the Vagans from Ezelcant, not that he wanted to help or save Ezelcant at all. What Kio saw was the living conditions on Vagan, which were completely intolerable, and being caused not by anyone from Earth but simply by Ezelcant himself. The very last thing Kio does is save Ezelcant's Clone from within the literal embodiment of the wars of the past, followed by a tragic deathbed speech where Ezelcant admits that Kio was right and he wishes he could see the future he creates. They couldn't have made it more obvious if they hammered it directly into your skull with a hammer.
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Oct 28, 2012 18:57
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ImpAtom posted:The very last thing Kio does is save Ezelcant's Clone from within the literal embodiment of the wars of the past, followed by a tragic deathbed speech where Ezelcant admits that Kio was right and he wishes he could see the future he creates. They couldn't have made it more obvious if they hammered it directly into your skull with a hammer. Just because he's a clone doesn't mean he's a copy. That guy isn't guaranteed to think the same way Ezelcant does-- he's his own person, even if he has the same genes.
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Oct 28, 2012 18:59
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Son Ryo posted:Just because he's a clone doesn't mean he's a copy. That guy isn't guaranteed to think the same way Ezelcant does-- he's his own person, even if he has the same genes. That's... You basically appear to have decided to ignore everything actually in the show and reading it as something completely different. There's not actually any way to argue with that.
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Oct 28, 2012 19:01
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ImpAtom posted:That's... If you say so. I don't think my interpretation's any less valid than yours, different though it is. Of course, I don't think you're wrong either-- you just took different things away from the show than I did. EDIT: If it helps, you certainly changed my mind on Kira. He's still my least favorite Gundam protagonist but at least I don't blindly hate him any more.
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Oct 28, 2012 19:03
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Zedd posted:0080: Watch this. 0080 is a really good miniseries, and it should be watched by anyone. Even people who don't like anime will probably like it since it's just such a well-done and human story. You really care about the characters. 0083 is pretty good, although towards the end, things fall apart a little as the story stops making much sense and things just kind of happen. Also, Keith is completely useless and I don't know what he's doing in a loving mobile suit.
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Oct 29, 2012 21:59
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0083 should have the subtitle of: "Nina Purpleton ruins everything"
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Oct 29, 2012 22:09
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Cemetry Gator posted:0083 is pretty good, although towards the end, things fall apart a little as the story stops making much sense and things just kind of happen. Also, Keith is completely useless and I don't know what he's doing in a loving mobile suit. Keith took out a Dom! With a Zaku II without a head! Rest of the series, he's in a useless GM Cannon II. The other guy didn't do anything either 
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Oct 29, 2012 22:49
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0083 will forever be known for the 'Ack the shield, my obvious weak point!' bit. Knowing it's supposed to be a coolant/nuke blast shield thing doesn't make it seem any less silly.
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Oct 30, 2012 03:03
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Sakurazuka posted:0083 will forever be known for the 'Ack the shield, my obvious weak point!' bit. Knowing it's supposed to be a coolant/nuke blast shield thing doesn't make it seem any less silly. That one line put me off Gundam for almost five years, no poo poo.
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Oct 30, 2012 04:20
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I'm pretty certain there has to be a way to recut 0083 to make it fantastic. There's lots of great characters in it, and the basic underlying story beat isn't all that bad. The battle in the last two episodes is fantastically intense, seeing everybody on the end of the rope trying to keep up on both ends. But some how the show ends up just being a gigantic loving train wreck. I still think it's worth watching, but just expect to be let down at the end and to be annoyed to poo poo whenever Nina does anything. e: also i discovered that what those kids do to all the popular anime series on tumblr also extends to gundam. I just wanted dumb gifs, not to ever read the words 'feels' and 'Anavel Gato' in the same sentence. Not Dave fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 05:20
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Playing Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3 has put me on such a Gundam spree.
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Oct 30, 2012 10:07
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Syrant posted:Playing Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3 has put me on such a Gundam spree. I just like how flavourful some of the little sidequests you get during battle can be, like having to rescue one of your team before Sochie gets there and accidentally sets off a nuke, or how killing off Glemmy actually raises your side's morale.
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Oct 30, 2012 15:01
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