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Clipperton posted:It figures it's bombing (we can't have nice things after all) but I can't really see how they'd pull off a Cursed Earth story in this more realistic setting, let alone the Dark Judges. Oh well. How are y'all forgetting that there's literally already a Cursed Earth movie!?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVe7p5N62ug
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Oct 25, 2012 22:43
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:
Nah, he's a figure of terror. It's just that killing innocents would be counterproductive for the kind of terror he's supposed to induce. Dredd is the monster that parents tell stories to their kids about to keep them from staying up past their bedtime or to get them to eat their vegetables.
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Oct 25, 2012 23:14
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NovemberMike posted:Dredd is the monster that parents tell stories to their kids about to keep them from staying up past their bedtime or to get them to eat their vegetables. 
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Oct 25, 2012 23:17
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No one fears the judges in Dredd, so I don't see him as a figure of terror. I don't know anything about the comics, just commenting on my perspective from the film. At least the 95' Stallone version showed that people knew who Dredd was and some were even afraid of him. With the new film, I get the impression that no one could possibly know who Dredd is (so few of them in an overpopulated city).
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Oct 26, 2012 03:12
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:I don't know anything about the comics, just commenting on my perspective from the film. At least the 95' Stallone version showed that people knew who Dredd was and some were even afraid of him. With the new film, I get the impression that no one could possibly know who Dredd is (so few of them in an overpopulated city). I thought it would be neat if DREDD turned out to be set early on in MC1's history and future films (hahaha) showed how Dredd and the Justice Department got the upper hand and turned it into the fascist nightmare we know and love.
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Oct 26, 2012 03:54
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Just saw it. Gotta add to the sentiments here. I loved it. I thought it was internally fairly consistent and carried the themes and satire pretty well while also being extremely viscerally enjoyable. Except for Dredd passing Anderson. Not something I thought he'd do, although there may be an in-universe rationalisation explaining how that could be in the letter of the law.
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Oct 26, 2012 11:35
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Neurosis posted:Just saw it. Gotta add to the sentiments here. I loved it. I thought it was internally fairly consistent and carried the themes and satire pretty well while also being extremely viscerally enjoyable. Except for Dredd passing Anderson. Not something I thought he'd do, although there may be an in-universe rationalisation explaining how that could be in the letter of the law. In-universe: She did not in fact lose her 'primary weapon' because that is her psychic power and not her gun Thematic: Given that Dredd the film is a satire, it works that the end gives us a more "understanding" Dredd the character while the system remains utterly hosed. Cmdr. Shepard posted:No one fears the judges in Dredd, so I don't see him as a figure of terror. The first line the thugs in the car say is something along the lines of "Oh poo poo, it's a judge. We're all hosed." There's also the scene where he kills the thug by incinerating his head: the thug questions Dredd's authority ("why should I obey you when I'm just going to die anyway?") so Dredd kills him in an utterly cruel and torturous manner. A third point towards the end would be the implication of Dredd killing Ma-Ma the same way she killed the dealers at the beginning. Remember, they were thrown over the edge "as a warning." We can then see Dredd throwing Ma-Ma over the edge as a warning of sorts to other would-be criminals in the building. This fits with Dredd's slightly-earlier monologue over the PA system: "Ma-Ma is not the law. I am the law." I think, however, we can take your point in a good direction if we narrow it down to Dredd, or the judges, not being an effective figure of terror. This makes sense if we tie it back to the theme of the judges and the gang being equivalent, as they both only have as much control as they are able to directly exercise power. If the judges only have power through direct enforcement, and if the judges only investigate a tiny amount of the crime, then the judges has very little power so the people will not much fear them. This can also be reinforced by the poverty we're shown in the opening montage, and more specifically with the homeless man who doesn't move: people just don't have enough to lose to fear having anything taken away. This returns us, then, to the film's central point: a system that relies exclusively on the use of force holds no legitimate authority.
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Oct 26, 2012 12:10
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Finally saw it tonight and there was about a 1/3 of a theatre at a 3D showing so pretty reasonable turn out. Thought it was drat excellent throughout and I thought the soundtrack really complemented it. I did like the bit with the beggar towards the beginning and Dredd's response showing us that he isnt entirely an unreasonable force of the law.
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Oct 26, 2012 13:33
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The beggar also had a sign that said something along the lines of "Homeless, will degrade myself for money". Which is a nice touch. Added to the comical bleakness of the world.
FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Oct 26, 2012 |
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Oct 26, 2012 13:58
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Man, this movie is making no money at all 
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Oct 26, 2012 14:18
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:No one fears the judges in Dredd, so I don't see him as a figure of terror. The woman saved by Dredd at the start is terrified of him. She can hardly get the words out when she says "Thank you Judge." Neurosis posted:Just saw it. Gotta add to the sentiments here. I loved it. I thought it was internally fairly consistent and carried the themes and satire pretty well while also being extremely viscerally enjoyable. Except for Dredd passing Anderson. Not something I thought he'd do, although there may be an in-universe rationalisation explaining how that could be in the letter of the law. The point is that even Dredd has to pick and choose. It's not actually possible to completely obey the letter of the law all the time, especially with limited resources. He doesn't shoot those kids, he passes Anderson because he thinks she has what it takes to be a Judge, despite what the letter of the law says. Remember the Chief Judge has already overlooked Anderson's sub par test scores and her status as a mutant because she thinks her psychic powers are useful. In theory Anderson shouldn't even be allowed to live within the city walls, let alone be a Judge.
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Oct 26, 2012 16:11
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I got that. It's just not in character with my understanding of Dredd. Because the rules Dredd quoted to Anderson sounded prescriptive, not flexible.
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Oct 26, 2012 16:32
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:No one fears the judges in Dredd, so I don't see him as a figure of terror. Yeah I haven't read the comics, although I know of them and their influence. Never seen the Stallone film either. But the film doesn't present Dredd as a unknown; he's famous enough that the corrupt Judges know of him, and the Chief doesn't pair Anderson with him at random but precisely because of his reputation. The film contrasts Dredd with other Judges like Anderson, the one guarding Peach Trees, the corrupt ones, and the Chief - creating the sense that Dredd isn't like the others; he doesn't care about helping others, he would never just stand around on the job, he doesn't care about money or himself really. And even though he does come around to the Chief's point of view, and incremently relaxes his adherence to the exact letter of the law, it's hard to picture the film's character ever adopting her nuanced approach. "I sense rage, and . . something else." The criminals reactions alone to Judges should be enough to portray they are very much to be feared, as if witnessing their enforcement wasn't enough.
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Oct 26, 2012 16:33
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Neurosis posted:I got that. It's just not in character with my understanding of Dredd. Because the rules Dredd quoted to Anderson sounded prescriptive, not flexible. Dredd is the law, not some blind servant of it. Not just in terms of "legal" power, but as a thematic representation of it.
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Oct 26, 2012 18:40
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FreudianSlippers posted:The beggar also had a sign that said something along the lines of "Homeless, will degrade myself for money". Which is a nice touch. Added to the comical bleakness of the world. I'm pretty sure it says 'debase' myself (which for some reason is even funnier and bleaker for me), but yeah it was a very nice touch. One wonders, in a world with neighborhoods of 96% unemployment, what point there might be in even putting up that sign; who has money to give them? Re: the passing of Anderson, I agree that it felt more like a softening of Dredd in terms of flexibility with regards to the law, or at least a change in his understanding of it. By letting the computer guy go because he was blatantly a victim of circumstance and was coerced, and that line about "maybe it's the one bit of difference I make today" (sic), Dredd sees at least one new way to handle the law. The final shot with her walking in silhouette, helmet in hand, toward the bikes while he bookends his monologue about the Judges indicates that she's a new type of Judge, or perhaps the face of what the Judges are meant to be.
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Oct 26, 2012 19:38
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Hewlett posted:I'm pretty sure it says 'debase' myself (which for some reason is even funnier and bleaker for me), but yeah it was a very nice touch. One wonders, in a world with neighborhoods of 96% unemployment, what point there might be in even putting up that sign; who has money to give them? I mentioned this before but the great thing about the beggar is if they had followed the letter of the law and arrested him for vagrancy, then he wouldn't have been killed by the giant gate falling down on him.
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Oct 26, 2012 19:45
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Hewlett posted:I'm pretty sure it says 'debase' myself (which for some reason is even funnier and bleaker for me), but yeah it was a very nice touch. One wonders, in a world with neighborhoods of 96% unemployment, what point there might be in even putting up that sign; who has money to give them? In the comic, everyone gets free food, housing, and (I believe) money from the state to live. I forget about the last one, since it's been a while. The monetary unit is the credit. If for some reason you lose your identification, such as through a bureaucratic cock up or else actual theft, then you can still be left destitute and on the street. Or if you're mentally ill, etc., and somehow can't work the system. Or if the government is just really slow.
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Oct 26, 2012 19:57
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Black Bones posted:The criminals reactions alone to Judges should be enough to portray they are very much to be feared, as if witnessing their enforcement wasn't enough. I see what you guys are saying and I do partially concede, but the fact that any nut with a gun decides to take up arms and go after the Judges in Peach Trees shows that people are more afraid of Ma-Ma than the Judges. Maybe that was enough reason for Dredd to act the way he did, because he felt it was necessary to restore the proper balance of terror (that Judges are the law, not Ma-Ma). Does that make sense? The gangs in Peach Trees were not afraid of the Judges, and in fact highly over estimated their ability to take them down.
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Oct 26, 2012 20:48
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Sure, they fear Ma-Ma more than anyone else, because they live in her territory. And while the captains are certainly hardened gangsters, most soldiers are not portrayed as "any nut with a gun", but as nervous and desperate men quite aware of what they're going up against (especially as the film progresses). Anderson's big scene with the wife of one of her kills hints that for many in the block the game isn't just for gold, guns and girls; but rather basic employment (ie: survival). The gang was freaked out about the Judges, I felt it was obvious they'd never shut down the building before - otherwise the computer-kid would have already been in control of everything. they certainly had planned for the occasion, but it's a mistake to assume that Ma-Ma's precuations (the railguns, having a line out to corrupt cops, the bomb) are underestimations of what Judges can do. She was afraid of Dredd, that's why she trapped him and his rookie in the first place, it was her best option to take care of them!
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Oct 26, 2012 21:07
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Black Bones posted:Sure, they fear Ma-Ma more than anyone else, because they live in her territory. And while the captains are certainly hardened gangsters, most soldiers are not portrayed as "any nut with a gun", but as nervous and desperate men quite aware of what they're going up against (especially as the film progresses). Anderson's big scene with the wife of one of her kills hints that for many in the block the game isn't just for gold, guns and girls; but rather basic employment (ie: survival). Agree with all this. Ma-Ma does have that line about Kay, that if they are bringing him in, he'll talk. She knows that if the Judges start taking an active interest in her affairs, she's finished.
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Oct 26, 2012 21:18
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Black Bones posted:She was afraid of Dredd, that's why she trapped him and his rookie in the first place, it was her best option to take care of them! She trapped them in so word of her operation didn't get out, not because she was afraid of him. She completely underestimated them, that was obvious. She had no worries at all over the Judges inside the building until the possibility of them interrogating one of her operatives became apparent.
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Oct 26, 2012 21:27
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:She trapped them in so word of her operation didn't get out, not because she was afraid of him. She completely underestimated them, that was obvious. She had no worries at all over the Judges inside the building until the possibility of them interrogating one of her operatives became apparent. It was mostly due to the high murder rate. They mention how judges have not been there in a long time. If they just killed some criminals so what they are dead, but if they interrogated one that would put there eye on her and they would come at her with there full force. She is scared of them when they know about her.
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Oct 26, 2012 21:32
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I certainly get the impression that people are terrified of the Judges... but that the Judges are so few (comparatively) in number to the amount of territory they have to cover and the amount of citizens that most people are able to stay under the radar. There is certainly plenty of crime, but the criminals don't thumb their noses at the Judges or treat them lightly, they try to avoid them if they can and poo poo themselves if they ever get a Judge's attention. It's somewhat different in Ma-Ma's case since she locks down the building and cuts off all communication, so the two Judges no longer have the monolithic and terrifying force of the administration behind them, plus Ma-Ma has a trump card in those 4 corrupt Judges who are willing to step in to take on Dredd when everything goes sour. Of course in the end, the message given to the citizens is clear - there is no higher authority than the law, and the Judges are not to be crossed under any circumstances.
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Oct 27, 2012 01:35
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:She trapped them in so word of her operation didn't get out, not because she was afraid of him. She completely underestimated them, that was obvious. She had no worries at all over the Judges inside the building until the possibility of them interrogating one of her operatives became apparent. Right, that is why she trapped them, but it doesn't mean she underestimated them, in the sense that she doesn't take the threat seriously. She tries every method at her disposal, but simply does not have enough power to (I wouldn't be surprised if the comics make a point of portraying that no force, legal or illegal, can) stop Dredd. He is utterly inexorable. Ma-Ma is only as mean as Dredd's world allows her to be, which in the end is not quite mean enough. But you might be onto something, fear-wise. Ma-Ma doesn't act as agitated or afraid as her men, in fact doesn't seem to be overly disturbed by anything. She obviously doesn't want to lose the kingdom she's carved out for herself and pulls out all the stops to protect it and herself, but if she feels desperate it is subtle. I think it's a combination of her being jaded by brutality, and the slo-mo addiction. Like any addiction, it's the only sense of peace she can enjoy. When she goes through the window, she ain't upset, but rather enjoys the tinkling glass and majestic swan dive. I came for Karl Urban's Dredd, but stayed (and will revisit) for Lena Heady's Ma-Ma.
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Oct 28, 2012 00:47
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Just saw it today on the recommendation of the thread and I loved it, it was everything you could hope for from a "gritty" type Dredd story. Part of me was hoping that they had made the movie go full gonzo with all the crazy poo poo from the comics but I realized that it would have ended up detracting from the fairly tight story and characterization they were going for if they had to throw in robots, moonbases & extra-dimensional psychopaths. It was a great change of pace to see an action movie in theaters based on a comic that wasn't either an action-comedy romp or was SO SERIOUS that it was stuck up its own rear end.
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Oct 30, 2012 08:14
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Black Bones posted:Like any addiction, it's the only sense of peace she can enjoy. When she goes through the window, she ain't upset, but rather enjoys the tinkling glass and majestic swan dive. I didn't get that impression. Slo-Mo only seems to only slow time down for the user, so it would have been a slow and agonizing death ( the same reason Ma Ma gave it to the men she skinned at the beginning). veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Oct 30, 2012 |
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Oct 30, 2012 08:27
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Dredd came 4th in box office returns for its opening weekend here in Aus taking in $800,000 which is quite decent for a non MASSIVE BLOCKBUSTER movie here. I think it should make its budget just barely by the time its cinema run is finished.
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Oct 30, 2012 13:06
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Nutsngum posted:Dredd came 4th in box office returns for its opening weekend here in Aus taking in $800,000 which is quite decent for a non MASSIVE BLOCKBUSTER movie here. Its late release over there has probably helped it! Rumour is getting around that it's a good film, so a lot of people have probably been waiting a long time to see it and word of mouth gets around a lot better.
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Oct 30, 2012 13:45
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Neurosis posted:Just saw it. Gotta add to the sentiments here. I loved it. I thought it was internally fairly consistent and carried the themes and satire pretty well while also being extremely viscerally enjoyable. Except for Dredd passing Anderson. Not something I thought he'd do, although there may be an in-universe rationalisation explaining how that could be in the letter of the law. Yeah, I think that's the biggest difference between movie Dredd and comic Dredd. Comic Dredd never would have passed Anderson. Not because she lost her gun, but because she let that guy get away. If she had requested lenience or given him a light sentence, that'd be one thing, but they caught him, he broke dozens of laws, was a major part of a criminal empire. It doesn't matter what the circumstances were, the law is the law, it must be applied. A judge does not have the right to just ignore it like that.
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Oct 31, 2012 03:00
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boom boom boom posted:Yeah, I think that's the biggest difference between movie Dredd and comic Dredd. Comic Dredd never would have passed Anderson. Not because she lost her gun, but because she let that guy get away. If she had requested lenience or given him a light sentence, that'd be one thing, but they caught him, he broke dozens of laws, was a major part of a criminal empire. It doesn't matter what the circumstances were, the law is the law, it must be applied. A judge does not have the right to just ignore it like that. Dredd didn't punish Walter the Wobot during the 1st Robot Wars storyline even though he was working in the enemy factory because he was doing so under coercion. Dredd is a major hardass but he has shown the occasional (very rare) bit of leniency in the comics toward those who are innocent.
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Oct 31, 2012 03:57
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Nutsngum posted:Dredd came 4th in box office returns for its opening weekend here in Aus taking in $800,000 which is quite decent for a non MASSIVE BLOCKBUSTER movie here. I doubt it. The only major market that Dredd has left to open in is Asia, which is not likely to make up the roughly $30 million gap remaining. Also, generally when a minimum required box office return is stated, it refers to the goal for American domestic earnings. Production companies generally get smaller cuts from international markets, so the required international earnings for a Dredd sequel to be considered are likely to be much higher than the domestic goal. But hey, maybe it will pull an Alice in Wonderland and become a massive hit in Japan.
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Oct 31, 2012 04:12
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Bob Quixote posted:Dredd didn't punish Walter the Wobot during the 1st Robot Wars storyline even though he was working in the enemy factory because he was doing so under coercion. Dredd is a major hardass but he has shown the occasional (very rare) bit of leniency in the comics toward those who are innocent. That's like Batman using guns; it happened early on and disagrees with my reading of the character, so I ignore it.
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Oct 31, 2012 06:50
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boom boom boom posted:That's like Batman using guns; it happened early on and disagrees with my reading of the character, so I ignore it. Dredd didn't arrest Bennett Beeny for soliciting in America because Beeny had already suffered enough.
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Oct 31, 2012 08:55
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Bugblatter posted:I doubt it. The only major market that Dredd has left to open in is Asia, which is not likely to make up the roughly $30 million gap remaining. The budget is only listed at 45 million though so it still has the chance of reaching it. But yeah, still doesnt help its low "domestic" takings.
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Oct 31, 2012 15:57
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I just came back from Dredd, and utterly loved it. I haven't read the comics but the other comics movie this year have been bloated and overstuffed. Dredd was lean and tight, with no holes and no bullshit. It introduced the characters and the conflict and took them through to their conclusions. It was gorgeously shot, and the Slo-Mo sequences could be cut out and shown as an art house film on their own. Morally is disagree with everything Dredd did, which may have been the point. Slo-Mo seemed a pure recreational drug with no side effects, making stopping it even worse. There was a nice parallel between almost all Dredd and MaMa's actions. I'm a bit disturbed by the fact that it was shot in South Africa, which lends yet another uncomfortable edge to the 'satire'. And I think the 'satire' is utterly depended on point of view; views that Americans regard as normal are considered bizarre and paranoid overseas. I got my avatar by defending pepper spray to a bunch of non-Americans, but Dredd's violence is normal by both action movie and paramilitary policing standards. Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 4, 2012 04:41
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I saw it the other night and loved it. I wish the later gunfights were a little more creative but the violence of the minigun scene made up for it. regarding passing Anderson, I got the sense that, while outwardly he reduces everything to binary (guily/not-guilty, pass/fail) inwardly he does understand that the world is a more complex place, he just doesn't let on. He weighed up the complexity of Anderson's actions, motivations and what the city needs, and reduced it to a binary choice. I noticed that he in no way qualified his answer.
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Nov 5, 2012 03:10
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Count Chocula posted:And I think the 'satire' is utterly depended on point of view; views that Americans regard as normal are considered bizarre and paranoid overseas. I got my avatar by defending pepper spray to a bunch of non-Americans, but Dredd's violence is normal by both action movie and paramilitary policing standards. Judge Dredd is, and has always been, a satire of authoritarianism. A film that has a scene of machines cleaning up a massacre in a mall while the PA system cheerfully tells shoppers that everything is fine and the shops will soon reopen probably isn't being serious. Also almost every thing Dredd says or does is humorously fascistic. American audiences not getting this because of the general view of authoritarianism as being awesome may have been one of the reasons it did worse over there than in the old world where literally everyone is a heathen communist with a constant thirst for gay abortions.
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Nov 5, 2012 06:14
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FreudianSlippers posted:American audiences not getting this because of the general view of authoritarianism as being awesome may have been one of the reasons it did worse over there than in the old world where literally everyone is a heathen communist with a constant thirst for gay abortions. Uh, no. Don't try to make things more complicated than they are. Dredd didn't do well here (USA) because it wasn't marketed at all. Nobody had any idea it existed. Not because of some twisted worldview that precludes us from understanding the concepts of satire and authoritarianism.
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Nov 5, 2012 17:34
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That and a lot of people thought it was connected to the Stallone movie.
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Nov 5, 2012 18:50
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And furthermore, none of the three people I know who were aware of that movie were able to see it because it barely had any theaters/showtimes.
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Nov 5, 2012 18:54
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