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The fans absolutely demand lots of plot points that GRRM ends up not giving them, or giving them in the worst possible way [BOOK THREE SPOILERS GODDAMN](e.g. Tyrion killing Tywin in a manner that failed to achieve anything and probably made everything worse for everybody.). Besides, he's already answered it, and if things continue along the path that seems likely, it's pretty much confirmation on its own.
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Oct 2, 2012 14:29
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Speaking of that event from the end of book 3, I love the theory that the Red Viper poisoned Tywin, and Tyrion was just ending his life a little ahead of schedule.
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Oct 2, 2012 20:49
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Halloween Jack posted:I recall Kevan saying that while he holds no lands, he does have "certain incomes." I wonder what sort of revenue streams a knight could hold that don't involve land and taxes; I don't think Kevan finances shipping or owns a string of brothels like Littlefinger. Keeping with a feudal economy model, he could have rights to forests or mines (which were separable from land) or the right to the profits of a market fair or a monopoly on printing or something. He could own the rights to the profit from a gold mine.
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Oct 2, 2012 20:57
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euphronius posted:Keeping with a feudal economy model, he could have rights to forests or mines (which were separable from land) or the right to the profits of a market fair or a monopoly on printing or something. He could own the rights to the profit from a gold mine. 
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Oct 2, 2012 21:12
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Presumably Kevan is kept monetarily and land weak by Tywin so as not to prove a threat to Tywin.
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Oct 2, 2012 21:15
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euphronius posted:Presumably Kevan is kept monetarily and land weak by Tywin so as not to prove a threat to Tywin. I thought it was just the way, the older son gets all (as not to dilute the family power). Kevan has proven himself to have some money. Even Tyrion gets all the Lannister money he could need. I don't think there is even a hint that Tywin saw Kevan as a threat; he was competent, never questioned his brother and was absolutely subservient to the greater needs of the House... That's why Kevan's sassing off and showing backbone to Cersei and Jaime, and then worrying about his immediate family took me aback. His loyalty was to Tywin himself and not so much the advancing of House Lannister As an aside, does anyone have links to the "bad threads" pre-ADWD? Before they got really bitter. I'd like to read the theories and discussions before I jump into ADWD. CatchrNdRy fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Oct 10, 2012 |
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Oct 10, 2012 19:34
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CatchrNdRy posted:I thought it was just the way, the older son gets all (as not to dilute the family power). Kevan has proven himself to have some money. Even Tyrion gets all the Lannister money he could need. I don't think there is even a hint that Tywin saw Kevan as a threat; he was competent, never questioned his brother and was absolutely subservient to the greater needs of the House... I don't think there was a time when they weren't terrible garbage threads.
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Oct 10, 2012 21:32
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Azure_Horizon posted:I don't think there was a time when they weren't terrible garbage threads. http://archives.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2176315 This late 2006 one had lots of reasonable discussion and some mild disappointment that it might take another year or so for ADWD to finally come out. So innocent back then, just like Sansa at Winterfell. CatchrNdRy fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Oct 10, 2012 |
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Oct 10, 2012 21:37
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Azure_Horizon posted:I don't think there was a time when they weren't terrible garbage threads. They have always been really awesome, especially pre-2010, hth
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Oct 11, 2012 03:25
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CatchrNdRy posted:http://archives.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2176315 Color me surprised. Well, then total garbage awful for six years, then.
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Oct 11, 2012 04:52
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Years of the author talking about football and waterlogged calendars and superhero rape stories while failing to deliver on repeated promises of continuing the series tends to do that to a goon...
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Oct 11, 2012 04:58
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whowhatwhere posted:Years of the author talking about football and waterlogged calendars and superhero rape stories while failing to deliver on repeated promises of continuing the series tends to do that to a goon... Many people have spent just as long waiting for GRRM's books and not created stupid threads about it.
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Oct 11, 2012 20:06
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Azure_Horizon posted:Many people have spent just as long waiting for GRRM's books and not created stupid threads about it. And many people who don't like the bad threads don't continually post in them. Funny, that.
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Oct 12, 2012 15:01
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Azure_Horizon posted:Many people have spent just as long waiting for GRRM's books and not created stupid threads about it. Nobody should ever post in a manner that forums poster Azure_Horizon disapproves of.
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Oct 12, 2012 15:07
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whowhatwhere posted:And many people who don't like the bad threads don't continually post in them. Funny, that. Because boredom is a terrible ailment? We going to get back to actual ASOIAF discussion instead of hilarious bad thread defending?
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Oct 12, 2012 19:24
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New messages and I thought we had a new reader of Storm of Swords who needed to vent. But nope, just the bad thread spilling over a bit.
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Oct 13, 2012 00:30
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I'm finally closing in on the end of DwD after a couple months of reading it off and on. It's really been a slog to get through. I'm tempted to go back and read ASoS or maybe GoT just to get a fun read in again.
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Oct 13, 2012 01:35
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Go with the Dunk and Egg shorts if you haven't read 'em yet.
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Oct 13, 2012 02:56
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Maarak posted:Go with the Dunk and Egg shorts if you haven't read 'em yet. Urdnot Fire fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Oct 13, 2012 |
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Oct 13, 2012 03:06
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They're releasing a compiled Dunk and Egg book next year, if GRRM ever stops watching football long enough to write the next installment.
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Oct 13, 2012 03:27
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Urdnot Fire posted:Yes, do this. I found them a lot easier and more enjoyable to read than AFFC and ADWD. Don't read the second one. It's boring and doesn't reveal any backstory.
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Oct 13, 2012 04:45
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I didn't find it boring as much as it was frustrating to read. It's an exercise in showing just how easily the Westerosi feudal system will risk the lives of the populace in order to preserve the traditional power structure. The whole situation is brought on by a long hot summer(I think, it's been a little while since I've read it). If it takes someone with the heroic patience of Dunk to resolve a minor water rights issue, how in the seven hells will the realm react to the Others and the coming Long Night?
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Oct 13, 2012 05:15
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So, I finally, after taking a break from the series, finished AFFC, and yeah. I thought it was pretty good, for what it was, but I can see precisely why bad sentiment started to settle in. The first three books came out a rough year/eighteen months apart. The first two books were 'setup books', and then ASOS was the giant payoff book where a whole dragon's colon of poo poo hit the fan. Then a six year wait. And when AFFC arrives...it's back to the setup. Which makes sense. If GRRM kept trying to top ASOS, he'd burn out quickly. He needs time for things to settle, gell, and build back to his second, hopefully even bigger King's Landing amount of poo poo that's going to hit the fan. The big issue, of course, was the six year wait. And then five more years for ADWD. Which I suspect is going to be even more setup. And then I'll be in the same boat as the other fans and readers who grew embittered over the past decade. Still, I really hope ADWD at least confirms if Brienne died. Because I honestly think, if she has, that that might have been the cruelest death in the series, barring anything that involved sexual violence. Also, while reading AFFC, I see the word 'rum' and I immediately go '...I'm about to see the context for A Glistening Hodor's avatar text, aren't I'? Also, BOILED LEATHER. STILL. Hell, in AFFC GRRM hits some sort of zeitgeist of his bad habits by comparing an old woman's privates to boiled leather. Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 19, 2012 11:53
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Cornwind Evil posted:Also, BOILED LEATHER. STILL. Hell, in AFFC GRRM hits some sort of zeitgeist of his bad habits by comparing an old woman privates to boiled leather.
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Oct 19, 2012 23:46
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And are as useful as nipples on a breastplate.
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Oct 19, 2012 23:53
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I found the prose of ADWD as pleasant as warm bread fresh from the oven Thanks to whoever posted that theory about Stannis becoming the new Night King. It's definitely my favorite ASOIAF theory that I've read. It fits Stannis's character shockingly well, has been fairly well foreshadowed, and would actually make the Wall and the Others a meaningful part of the larger storyline. TheLoquid fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Oct 20, 2012 |
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Oct 20, 2012 00:32
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HK5000 posted:More boiled leather to come! Don't worry though. Words are wind. I think the reason 'boiled leather' keeps jumping out at me is that it's always used in description. A lot of the other oft-repeated phrases ("Words are wind." "A Lannister always pays his debts." "You know nothing, Jon Snow." "I am looking for a maid aged three-and-ten..." etc) are used when people are speaking or thinking, which 'excuses' them: why would they need to vary their speech or thoughts? The author, however, is the 'God' of a fictional world, and has a greater responsibility, even if he can't use 'cuir bouilli' because this is Westeros and the French language doesn't exist there. When he fails in said responsibility, and you notice, you can't stop UN-noticing.
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Oct 20, 2012 02:11
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On a whim I checked out the Wikipedia page for the next book, Winds of Winter. This led me to this interview: http://www.adriasnews.com/2012/10/george-r-r-martin-interview.html?spref=tw Several spoilers but the article does a good job at allowing the reader to skip them. According to this he has about 400 pages written but only 200 does he consider final. He's hoping for a 2014 publication but as we all know words are wind.
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Oct 23, 2012 01:53
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Started on A Dance With Dragons. 900 pages to go before I can join everyone else in becoming angry, embittered, and hateful in the core thread. Also, I realized that A Feast For Crows was lacking in one crucial department: ELABORATELY DESCRIBED MEALS.
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Oct 26, 2012 10:56
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Cornwind Evil posted:Started on A Dance With Dragons. 900 pages to go before I can join everyone else in becoming angry, embittered, and hateful in the core thread. Don't, please. Actually enjoy it.
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Oct 26, 2012 11:46
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Cornwind Evil posted:Started on A Dance With Dragons. 900 pages to go before I can join everyone else in becoming angry, embittered, and hateful in the core thread. To be fair, we do tend to exaggerate how awful AFFC and ADWD actually are in the bad thread. I mean the majority agrees that those two are the weakest of the series, but the rage in there mainly comes from the fact that, in the last 11 years, those are the only two books we've had for this series... and it really doesn't seem like either of those books warranted 4-6 year hiatuses.
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Oct 26, 2012 17:51
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Contra Calculus posted:To be fair, we do tend to exaggerate how awful AFFC and ADWD actually are in the bad thread. I mean the majority agrees that those two are the weakest of the series, but the rage in there mainly comes from the fact that, in the last 11 years, those are the only two books we've had for this series... and it really doesn't seem like either of those books warranted 4-6 year hiatuses. Plus, after the immense poo poo GOES DOWN aspect of SOS, Feast and Dance look to be more setup books in the vein Game and Clash were. Between that and 11 years...yeah, I can see where the bad feelings would come from.
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Oct 27, 2012 09:23
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I think I'm going to savor the sweet karma of Jon hacking Slynt's head off. This series far favors more the biggest bastard wins mindset, and I suspect that's the last we'll see of such 'righteous' things. Also, I think the TV show has spoiled me in a different way. I feel a lot worse for Theon than I should, as he was a lot more sympathetic in the show. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with tweak(ed opinions)...
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Nov 3, 2012 10:38
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Cornwind Evil posted:Also, I think the TV show has spoiled me in a different way. I feel a lot worse for Theon than I should, as he was a lot more sympathetic in the show. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with tweak(ed opinions)...
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Nov 3, 2012 14:16
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Joramun posted:I don't think it depends on the show, actually. For me he was a monster in ACOK, but my heart still completely broke over his arc in ADWD all the same. GRRM just has a talent for making you root and feel for his initial villains (also see: Jaime and Cersei) in later books. I wouldn't even be surprised anymore if he pulled off something like that for the most irredeemable character in the series (Ramsay) in book 6 or 7, either. I still don't feel bad for Cersei.
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Nov 3, 2012 14:53
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Ya know, you can say you feel bad for Theon, but he fuckin' killed a couple innocent children and their mother. He also killed a bunch of other innocent people. Sure he was "caught between two worlds" because of his psycho viking family, but still, gently caress that guy.
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Nov 3, 2012 14:59
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JazzFlight posted:Ya know, you can say you feel bad for Theon, but he fuckin' killed a couple innocent children and their mother. He also killed a bunch of other innocent people. Sure he was "caught between two worlds" because of his psycho viking family, but still, gently caress that guy.
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Nov 3, 2012 15:01
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JazzFlight posted:Ya know, you can say you feel bad for Theon, but he fuckin' killed a couple innocent children and their mother. He also killed a bunch of other innocent people. Sure he was "caught between two worlds" because of his psycho viking family, but still, gently caress that guy. Theon's arc in ADWD is far worse than any acts he committed. You don't wish that sort of thing even on your worst foe.
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Nov 3, 2012 17:24
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Azure_Horizon posted:Theon's arc in ADWD is far worse than any acts he committed. You don't wish that sort of thing even on your worst foe. Speaking of unsympathetic character choices in ADWD: why did GRRM have to make Tyrion essentially rape the slave prostitute woman? Sure, she was a "prostitute," but she wasn't getting paid and he repeatedly confirms that she doesn't want to have sex with him.
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Nov 3, 2012 17:28
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JazzFlight posted:Meh, he could have killed himself at a lot of times in ADWD to end it all. I don't care a bit for him. You're talking about Illyrio's 'gift'? I'll venture to say that Tyrion is still embracing "being the monster" so many others accuse him of being. It's not until later that Tyrion really sees what being a monster is (the Slavers, etc.) and how dwarves in the real world are treated that he begins to adjust.
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Nov 3, 2012 18:47
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