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Seoinin posted:Gamzee is turning... good?!?! *record scratch* Wait, there's an update? 
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Nov 5, 2012 11:08
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In addition to being the most important character, Gamzee is also the best.
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Nov 5, 2012 11:22
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Sherrard posted:In addition to being the most important character, Gamzee is also the best. This isn't Highlander, you don't become the best character by killing the best character (Equius) 
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Nov 5, 2012 11:34
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Wow, objectively incorrect opinions itt RE: the best troll.
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Nov 5, 2012 11:45
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Seoinin posted:Gamzee is turning... good?!?! *record scratch* It's a possibility. Remember what the narration said when Karkat shoosh-papped him:  'And so calmed down his juggalo rear end was and would continueth to be for all time.' Of course, he could just be calmly evil.
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Nov 5, 2012 11:58
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There was talk recently about how there's always a bigger villain behind what appears to be the big villain. Gamzee's motivations are unclear and he's the most important character in all of Homestuck. Clearly, Gamzee will replace Lord English as the main antagonist. 
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Nov 5, 2012 12:23
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Lottery of Babylon posted:There was talk recently about how there's always a bigger villain behind what appears to be the big villain. The most important character in Homestuck is the audience, who, you'll recall, also fondly regarded the miracle of a new beginning as that countdown approached zero. The second most important character in Homestuck is Andrew Hussie. When Doc Scratch was narrating, he claimed in his arrogance to have had more influence than the above named, who, in turn, had far more influence than the ostensible main characters. The bigger, badder threat than Lord English is Mobster Kingpin, and Vriska was correct to surmise that this individual will not be relevant to the overarching story of Homestuck. This is all, of course, just one interpretation. You might prefer one less dependent on metafiction. Or you might like to use it to give yourself the willies by combining it with the idea that Calliope and Caliborn represent Homestuck fans. Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 12:56
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SteelAngel2000 posted:Gamzee is the loving best and I'm glad he doesn't have to worry about Kanaya trying to kill him anymore. She crotch-punted him off a cliff before he even knew what hit him and then smacked down a godtier and bifurcated an enormous tool.
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Nov 5, 2012 13:07
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Bobulus posted:Well, Rose doesn't know Caliborn's name (no one does, it seems, other than his minions). So it wasn't there to be struck in the first place. She doesn't know it yet, but she also doesn't presently know about everything John just experienced in dream bubble land, yet she writes about it at a future date. It's not inconceivable that Rose knows the name later, when she's writing certain entries.
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Nov 5, 2012 16:02
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Luminous Obscurity posted:She crotch-punted him off a cliff before he even knew what hit him and then smacked down a godtier and bifurcated an enormous tool. They obviously weren't ready for it and now Gamzee has a cod-piece so he's covered. Also he's God Tier now. But seriously Gamzee is the strongest troll especially when in murder mode, has psychic powers, and dealt the most damage to the Black King during the trolls climactic fight. He'd smack Kanaya down in a one-on-one duel and it wouldn't be close. And because we're on the topic of Gamzee, there's something I was wondering. During Dave and Gamzee's conversation where he reveals that he made the kids' session terminal... How did that work? And why did he mess with John when it was Dave that he was raging at?
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Nov 5, 2012 16:04
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SteelAngel2000 posted:They obviously weren't ready for it and now Gamzee has a cod-piece so he's covered. Also he's God Tier now. Gamzee instilled the fear of clowns into John that led Dad to shower him with harlequin-based merch which eventually got John's kernel prototyped with a harlequin doll that annoyed Jack enough to make him rebel which allowed him to violently derail the session. So by that token he is "responsible" for causing the kids' session to go terminal, although causality in Homestuck is a giant clusterfuck and just about everything that's happened is interdependent on everything else.
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Nov 5, 2012 16:15
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SteelAngel2000 posted:They obviously weren't ready for it and now Gamzee has a cod-piece so he's covered. Also he's God Tier now. It's true that those 3 clearly were caught off-guard by Kanaya so we can't really say that she could do that again in a straight-up fight. However, Gamzee dealing the most damage (other than possibly Vriska) doesn't mean he's the strongest or that he would win. Kanaya wasn't a raindow drinker at that point which seems to have definitely made her faster and more powerful. Even Meenah seemed worried to mess with Kanaya in the second walkabout due to her vampire speed.
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Nov 5, 2012 16:48
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SteelAngel2000 posted:They obviously weren't ready for it and now Gamzee has a cod-piece so he's covered. Also he's God Tier now. Remember, Gamzee's God Tier outfit is assembled. It's entirely possible- even likely- that Gamzee isn't actually God Tier.
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Nov 5, 2012 16:50
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King of Solomon posted:Remember, Gamzee's God Tier outfit is assembled. It's entirely possible- even likely- that Gamzee isn't actually God Tier. That was the going theory, but it took kind of a hit when he showed up with wings in Ministrife. Of course, they could be fake wings. It is a costume party, after all.
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Nov 5, 2012 17:09
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They could also just incidental wings. Rufioh's got wings, after all, and he didn't God Tier. Stranger poo poo has happened.
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Nov 5, 2012 17:18
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Cabbit posted:They could also just incidental wings. Rufioh's got wings, after all, and he didn't God Tier. Stranger poo poo has happened. Good point. In an alternate universe where Kanaya is the most important character in Homestuck, we'd be convinced that Kanaya is god tier because how else could she come back from the dead glowing like that.
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Nov 5, 2012 17:25
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Nephthys posted:It's a possibility. Remember what the narration said when Karkat shoosh-papped him: This remains one of my favourite updates for all MSPA. It's just so beautiful.
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Nov 5, 2012 18:23
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Nephthys posted:It's true that those 3 clearly were caught off-guard by Kanaya so we can't really say that she could do that again in a straight-up fight. She rolled up on the three most dangerous trolls and crushed all of them. No backstabbing, no trickery, she just marched up to each one and doled out a beating. How was that not straight-up? It's easy to forget because Kanaya makes such an effort to get along with everyone and speaks so carefully, but she complains that being a seer or being maternal doesn't come easily to her. What is she good at? Violence. She handed out two beatings and a murder, and then reapplied her bloody makeup like it wasn't a thing.
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Nov 5, 2012 20:27
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Mystic Mongol posted:She rolled up on the three most dangerous trolls and crushed all of them. No backstabbing, no trickery, she just marched up to each one and doled out a beating. How was that not straight-up? She kicked him off a cliff when he wasn't expecting it and he shows up again later like nothing happened.
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Nov 5, 2012 20:37
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Comic posted:She kicked him off a cliff when he wasn't expecting it and he shows up again later like nothing happened. Where are you getting that he wasn't expecting it? He saw her coming. They all did. She wasn't very subtle about it. CidGregor fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Nov 5, 2012 |
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Nov 5, 2012 20:44
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CidGregor posted:Where are you getting that he wasn't expecting it? She was moving pretty drat fast; her victims only had moments to react. This is a different situation, from, say, a prepared duel between the two of them, or Gamzee dropping from a vent while Kanaya is busy chasing Rose down the stairs. However Mystic Mongol posted:She rolled up on the three most dangerous trolls and crushed all of them. No backstabbing, no trickery, she just marched up to each one and doled out a beating. How was that not straight-up? This is a really good post.
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Nov 5, 2012 21:13
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The Kanaya and Calliope talk has made me realize something. 1) From Aranea, it seems that a Sylph's role is to heal or mend their role - to "restore" their aspect. 2) Rose insisted Kanaya come along, with the implication that she was needed (and the further implication that she'd be able to help "further" her race this way, meeting her initial goal. 3) Calliope is being foreshadowed as being intrinsic to paradox space itself, or at least a large parallel to paradox space and its machinations. 4) Hussie's a jerk to his characters, and Rose's dialogue seemed to leave open the implication that Kanaya may wind up choosing to do something else. I'm wondering if Kanaya will be forced to decide between saving her species or saving Calliope - it would be a decision worthy of a creation myth, and it feels like we haven't had an earnest "hard choice" thus far. Endgame/nearing the end of the story might be where we begin seeing this sort of thing, as the final process of maturation for the characters that haven't been killed/doublekilled.
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Nov 5, 2012 21:54
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CidGregor posted:Where are you getting that he wasn't expecting it? Vampire speed. Notice that she does all that before the sunglasses fall back down.
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Nov 5, 2012 22:41
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Suaimhneas posted:Vampire speed. Notice that she does all that before the sunglasses fall back down. That just lends to the argument that she's a better fighter than them.
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Nov 5, 2012 22:44
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I was wondering what the term Dancestor means and where it comes from.
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Nov 5, 2012 22:51
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Pester posted:I was wondering what the term Dancestor means and where it comes from.
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Nov 5, 2012 22:53
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Crain posted:That just lends to the argument that she's a better fighter than them. Yes? That was my point!
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Nov 5, 2012 22:55
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Pester posted:I was wondering what the term Dancestor means and where it comes from. Example: Meenah and Feferi are Dancestors. Meenah becomes Feferi's ancestor post-scratch, but she was technically a descendant of Feferi pre-scratch. I guess Pre-Scratch Feferi and Her Imperious Condescension are also Dancestors.
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Nov 5, 2012 22:56
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Elysiume posted:It's a portmanteau of descendant and ancestor. There is no dancing involved, I am highly disappointed. 
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Nov 5, 2012 22:58
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Pester posted:I was wondering what the term Dancestor means and where it comes from. Dancestor is a combination of descendant and ancestor and refers to the changing relations between the pre- and post-Scratch sets of players (especially the trolls who we don't know who the genetic predecessor). For example in A1 it was an adult Feferi and teen Meenah for ancestor-descendant, but in A2 it was the other way. Basically each group sees themselves as the descendant and the other as teenage versions of their adult ancestors, which is kind of mutually incompatible, so dancestors. First mentioned by Porrim in the first Meenahbound walk around. edit: majorly beaten, and with the Fef-Meenah example too! As for anyone trying to figure out who's strongest- you can't really, not in concrete terms. No DBZ power levels here (despite the echeladder). Eridan can ko Sollux and kill Fef and Kan, but then vampire-Kanaya can gank Gamzee, Eridan and Vriska, but Vriska can go toe to toe with Bec Noir who can one shot pretty much all the other trolls, but still gets stabbed from behind by Terezi.
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Nov 5, 2012 22:59
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Color Printer posted:I guess Pre-Scratch Feferi and Her Imperious Condescension are also Dancestors. Aren't they one and the same?
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Nov 5, 2012 23:00
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Radio Paranoia posted:Aren't they one and the same? I'm gonna assume Printer was referring to the adult Empress we see in A2, who is the adult version of Meenah, so no.
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Nov 5, 2012 23:02
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Radio Paranoia posted:Aren't they one and the same? Well one is technically the title so I guess I kinda hosed that up there, yeah.  (But yes, I was referring to the crazy A2 empress)
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Nov 5, 2012 23:03
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Radio Paranoia posted:Aren't they one and the same? ... no? Post-Scratch Meenah is Her Imperious Condescension. Did the Beforan Feferi have that title? I don't remember anyone ever using it to describe her.
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Nov 5, 2012 23:08
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So I've been rereading the comic. Out of boredom pretty much, and because I didn't want to catch up until I had reread the comic. It's kind of nice just reading it at it's own pace, not having unrealistic expectations or crazy speculation. But anyway, I AM remembering why I stopped in the first place, so I might as well ask right now: Does the comic ever give the characters anything resembling agency? Everything until the end of act 5 that I remember was pretty much all about failure, predestination, no one being able to affect things because all the time loops made things already happen, and more and more grisly death. It depresses me.
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Nov 5, 2012 23:20
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Yonic Symbolism posted:So I've been rereading the comic. Out of boredom pretty much, and because I didn't want to catch up until I had reread the comic. It's kind of nice just reading it at it's own pace, not having unrealistic expectations or crazy speculation. Short answer? Yes. Long answer: After Cascade, as you know, the (living) trolls met up with Rose and Dave, and Jade/John are on a ship flying through a broken 4th wall. During this time, Jade and John are basically out of the loop and passing their time (and there is a lot of it, seeing as they're on the thing for three years) loving around on their planets. Rose, Kanaya, and some dead trolls are planning different ways to stop Lord English.
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Nov 5, 2012 23:29
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Yonic Symbolism posted:Does the comic ever give the characters anything resembling agency? Everything until the end of act 5 that I remember was pretty much all about failure, predestination, no one being able to affect things because all the time loops made things already happen, and more and more grisly death. It depresses me. It seems to be slowly moving in that direction, and it's pretty clear that breaking away from predestination is going to be a big part of any possible victory, what with LE's near-total control over the timeline. In unrelated news, who wants a collection of 36 GameBro mashups?
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Nov 5, 2012 23:32
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Walliard posted:It seems to be slowly moving in that direction, and it's pretty clear that breaking away from predestination is going to be a big part of any possible victory, what with LE's near-total control over the timeline. But has a character actually performed an important action that was not later shown to be because the timeline wanted them to do it? I mean "slowly moving in that direction" and "talking about possible plans" don't sound like they've actually succeeded in anything yet.
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Nov 5, 2012 23:35
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Yonic Symbolism posted:But has a character actually performed an important action that was not later shown to be because the timeline wanted them to do it? I mean "slowly moving in that direction" and "talking about possible plans" don't sound like they've actually succeeded in anything yet. Let's keep things in perspective here. The kids and trolls are basically stuck on a vehicle (a flying meteor and a ship) for three years. They can't get off until they arrive. All they really can do is plan right now. The dead trolls have more capability, but right now their plans are "build a massive army of idiots (failing because they're idiots)," "search for a dead girl (just getting started)" and "decipher a treasure map (requires more destruction because the furthest ring is loving stupid.)" So no, they haven't succeeded yet. When they succeed, it will be the climax, and the comic will start winding down. Because y'know, they're building plans for defeating the final boss.
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Nov 5, 2012 23:39
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Yonic Symbolism posted:But has a character actually performed an important action that was not later shown to be because the timeline wanted them to do it? I mean "slowly moving in that direction" and "talking about possible plans" don't sound like they've actually succeeded in anything yet.
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Nov 5, 2012 23:39
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